NationStates Jolt Archive

Social Justice
Proposal:
In order to increase economic activity and to ensure job security.
In order to decrease illegal immigration and economic disparity.
The Great Republic of Zephyrhill does so propose to wit:
1) All member nations adopt a livable (minimum) wage rule. Said rule is to be binding to all public and private employment.
2) All member nations shall adopt rules requiring foreign corporations and businesses moving to another country to pay employees the higher of either the minimum wage from the originating country or the country it moves to.
3) All member nations adopt a "Fair Tax System" so that no person would be taxed above 50 (fifty) % of their income.

These rules in no way should be construed to be anti-free trade. Under no circumstances should the rights of nations to entice business from other countries through fair and legal practices, ie: tax incentives, land deals, be infringed.
FairTax System applies only to individuals.
Rules requiring businesses to pay minimum wage from the originating country are to prevent job loss and economic distress in the originating country.

The latter is possibly illegal, as it contravenes "Representation in Taxation".

1. "Livable wage" and "minimum wage" are two entirely different things.
2. You cannot force companies to abide by your laws when they are in another nation. Sorry.
3. Many nations tax wealthy individuals at rates higher than 50%; they consider it an income equality measure. Besides that, many nations have an average tax rate of higher than 50%. An international Fair Tax System is unworkable, and probably illegal to boot (see Resolution #128 Representation in Taxation).
4. I wouldn't support this proposal even if all the above errors were amended somehow.

You can't control income tax rates - this is game mechanics.

And requiring minimum wages to extend across borders is ridiculous. What constitutes a livable wage in Gruenberg might be a fortune in _Myopia_, because of the differences in living expenses.

This is not exactly a new subject and these are some of the same problems we always run into whenever we have tried to address it in the past.

The Great Republic of Zephyrhill does so propose to wit:
This is "branding and would make the proposal illegal.
1) All member nations adopt a livable (minimum) wage rule. Said rule is to be binding to all public and private employment.
I imagine many, if not most, nations already have some sort of national minimum wage/living wage/fair wage law. The problem comes when you try to make a UN-wide law.
3) All member nations adopt a "Fair Tax System" so that no person would be taxed above 50 (fifty) % of their income.
Violates "Representation in Taxation"

Optischer has found a loophole in this proposal, one that we would openly welcome, and would vote for. The words 'tax' and 'wage' can be redefinable since I don't think their is a global dictionary. Even if you posted the definiton of them, that would be your countries definition not ours.
The loophole is that if you swap the definition of tax and wage, then you get a wage that cannot be more than 50%, and a tax that cannot be less then a livable standard.
So unless a global dictionary is launched, then I would welcome this proposal. If I were a scrooge state.
Optischer

this thorny problem has been aroud for a while.

Representation in taxation states the following :

2.DECLARES and PROTECTS, as inviolable rights of nations:
(a) imposing or not imposing of taxes or fees on domestic activities, items, and businesses within their national boundaries, and
(b) the determination of rate, general type (progressive, flat, etc.) and specific application of such taxes (who/what is and is not taxed);

therefore point 3 of this proposal is illegal acording to UN law. you can't set a tax rate, only governments can.

These rules in no way should be construed to be anti-free trade. Under no circumstances should the rights of nations to entice business from other countries through fair and legal practices, ie: tax incentives, land deals.

okay, that part makes no sense whatsoever. either they have rights to entice businesses, or they dont. if they dont, then, since it doesnt cover them, non-un nations can entice them leaving us with nothing. also, i can see that you are new. i notced another thread with the same title by the same author. you only have to post it once.

okay, that part makes no sense whatsoever. either they have rights to entice businesses, or they dont. if they dont, then, since it doesnt cover them, non-un nations can entice them leaving us with nothing. also, i can see that you are new. i notced another thread with the same title by the same author. you only have to post it once.

Thanks to all for replying. I can see this is a thorny issue and I am appreciative of all your replies. I corrected the last statement that you are refering to. At least in my view. And yes you caught me, I did post it twice by accident. My apologies. As for being new, I am. And I will try to do better in my proposals in the future.

okay, now you need to sort out the 'branding' issue. also, with it now corrected, businesses are going to move to nations with the lowest minimal wage. there should be some way to stop it otherwise businesses would nation-hop as economies change

Your ideas are respectable, your reputation still to be built, and your achievements still to come. Don't make the same mistak as I did, and get a reputation n my firts day as a anti-un UN-member radicalist, which think fits with my anti-anti-semitic, fascist communist label in the real world.
Your ideas good, but too many loopholes. Try reading through the resolutions first.
Optischer

Thanks for the constructive advice. I will shelve this proposal and do some more research on this. I would appreciate any advice i can get on this important subject. If some one would like to co-author this with me (if that is legal) I would be open to that also.

Don't make the same mistak as I did, and get a reputation n my firts day as a anti-un UN-member radicalist,
Your reputation precedes you! (Who are you anyway? No one has even heard of you!)

Oh and on the subject matter....
This wage thingy is already in place in most nations. Its called welfare. Personally I prefer to let those for whom living has become too expensive to be executed thus keeping those loveable rogues down at the munitions factory in jobs so they can afford to live.

Oh my look at that, someone flicked my switch from fluffy to evil. You guys!:D

Zephyrhill,
I would help co-author this if you want. All you need to do is create a few more workable proposals. I just want to know one question, what country are you in, and if it's America, what time zone.
I may be against it, but I see potential.
Don't be intimidted by the Veberable Libertarians, they're just a bunch of social misfits who can't produce constructive criticism.
Oh, and co-authoring is legal.
Optischer

Your reputation precedes you! (Who are you anyway? No one has even heard of you!)

Oh and on the subject matter....
This wage thingy is already in place in most nations. Its called welfare. Personally I prefer to let those for whom living has become too expensive to be executed thus keeping those loveable rogues down at the munitions factory in jobs so they can afford to live.

Oh my look at that, someone flicked my switch from fluffy to evil. You guys!:D

It pains me to disagree with you. Welfare is a completely different subject. Welfare is something we dislike here in the sunny hills of Zephyrhill.
By the way....your world rocks :headbang:

to VL: Optischer is someone who came on the other day and posted a dozen proposals and repeals, along with using :headbang: ,:sniper: and :mp5:

to Optischer: VL is a respected senior authority of the NSUN, and isnt the first such figure you insulted. i would be carefull if i was you.
(insert fris is watching you card here)

to VL: Optischer is someone who came on the other day and posted a dozen proposals and repeals, along with using :headbang: ,:sniper: and :mp5: Theres no accounting for taste

to Optischer: VL is a respected senior authority of the NSUN, and isnt the first such figure you insulted. i would be carefull if i was you.
(insert fris is watching you card here)Recognises the efforts of the Member for the Lynx Alliance, and rewards such loyalty to the UN resolutions with a selection of Fine Yeldan Cheeses. :D

to Yelda: Stick it on my tab! :D

to Yelda: Stick it on my tab! :D
Always glad to assist in the area of international diplomacy.

Theres no accounting for taste

Recognises the efforts of the Member for the Lynx Alliance, and rewards such loyalty to the UN resolutions with a selection of Fine Yeldan Cheeses. :D

to Yelda: Stick it on my tab! :D
Zephyrhills wine goes great with cheese.:D

Zephyrhills wine goes great with cheese.:D
I am as yet Unaware of your fine libations. Send free samples preferably in vats to his majesties government for testing. If they cut the mustard we shall add them to our diplomatic gift options.

I am as yet Unaware of your fine libations. Send free samples preferably in vats to his majesties government for testing. If they cut the mustard we shall add them to our diplomatic gift options.
Done. And in time for our Festivus celebration!

May I enquire why the two of you seem to be more concerned about cheese and wine than the livable wage proposal?
Optischer

May I enquire why the two of you seem to be more concerned about cheese and wine than the livable wage proposal?
Optischer
Because its a load of arse!
http://show.imagehosting.us/show/521736/15299/user_15299/T1_15299_521736.GIF (http://www.imagehosting.us/index.php?action=show&ident=521736)

May I enquire why the two of you seem to be more concerned about cheese and wine than the livable wage proposal?
Optischer

I wonder if a resolution enforcing a minimum guaranteed supply of fine cheese and wine to every citizen would be viewed more favourably by this Assembly...

I wonder if a resolution enforcing a minimum guaranteed supply of fine cheese and wine to every citizen would be viewed more favourably by this Assembly...
I labored tirelessly to provide a cheese resolution but it took on a life of it's own and morphed into the GFDA.

Maybe something like this would work:

Free Trade
The Magnanimous Cheese and Wine Proposal
Cheese and wine are really good but not enough people have them. We propose that everyone should have enough cheese and wine to survive. It would also be really good if everyone would buy only Yeldan Cheese and Zephyrhill Wine, because they are really good and then Yelda and Zephyrhill would be really happy and have a lot of free trade, but we should also allow everyone to buy other cheeses and wine if they prefer it, because there are other really good cheeses and wines in the world, so this is free trade for everybody. I hope everyone will support my proposal, please help me! xxx

*The Wise Ruler of Fonzoland reads what he wrote, blushes, and silently vows never to drink Zephyrhill wine in public events again.*

Incidentally, I think that both Zephyrhill wine and Yelda cheese are fabulous and worthy of some "Food Protection Resolution" guaranteeing their quality and origin (not a bad idea come to think of it). Yet, I'm going to try and do what Optischer wants (forgive me VL and all others who couldn't care less) and give my 10 strachans worth on this proposal.

Social Justice
Proposal:
In order to increase economic activity and to ensure job security.
In order to decrease illegal immigration and economic disparity.
The Great Republic of Zephyrhill does so propose to wit:
1) All member nations adopt a livable (minimum) wage rule. Said rule is to be binding to all public and private employment.
2) All member nations shall adopt rules requiring foreign corporations and businesses moving to another country to pay employees the higher of either the minimum wage from the originating country or the country it moves to.
3) All member nations adopt a "Fair Tax System" so that no person would be taxed above 50 (fifty) % of their income.

To be honest, the livable wage should be equal to the value of a minimum wage and vice versa, as the two are mutually related concepts. I would welcome requiring a minimum wage as it would work in the economic interests of nations and guarantee individual prosperity and well-being in matters economic (theoretically). Yet stating that a company should adhere to the social restraints of the previous one is a very RL reference Bolkensteinesque idea, one that whilst in many respects laudable, is open to abuse by companies and also fundamentally restricts the company's ability to operate according to national law. Dictating income tax is illegal under U.N. law and also, given that Compadria has a 100% income tax rate, disadvantageous to us and many other nations. How, incidentally, is 50% "fair" and by what means have you come to this argument?

The ambassador for Compadria opens the floor for the continuation of the debate on cheese and wine.

May the blessings of our otters be upon you.

Leonard Otterby
Ambassador for the Republic of Compadria to the U.N.

The ambassador for Compadria opens the floor for the continuation of the debate on cheese and wine.
In all fairness to Zephyrhill, I don't think we should let this turn into Yet Another Cheese Thread.
To Zephyrhill: if you're still interested in tackling this issue, you might be interested in this thread:

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=447628

This is the last time I remember it being discussed here, although there are undoubtedly other threads older than this one.