NationStates Jolt Archive

The United Nations Ministry of Compliance has Telegramed my nation and has informed me that I quote "Laws have been enacted to bring United Specopscom into compliance with the IT Resoultion". My nation also recieved a telegram of the same nature concerning the Global Food Act.

My nation will NOT be forced to comply with any resolution which attempts to force my nation to change it's laws and regulations to ones which are not in the interests of my nation. My nation will not be forced to comly with any resolution which attempts to replace my nations government with one which the UN wishes.

Any attempt by the UN to force United Specopscom to comply with any Resolution which is not in the best interests of United Specopscom will be responded to by any means necessary including but hopefully not, military means.

Ok. However, if that's your attitude, we can only speculate as to why you wish to remain in the UN in the first place.

The United Nations Ministry of Compliance has Telegramed my nation and has informed me that I quote "Laws have been enacted to bring United Specopscom into compliance with the IT Resoultion". My nation also recieved a telegram of the same nature concerning the Global Food Act.

My nation will NOT be forced to comply with any resolution which attempts to force my nation to change it's laws and regulations to ones which are not in the interests of my nation. My nation will not be forced to comly with any resolution which attempts to replace my nations government with one which the UN wishes.

Any attempt by the UN to force United Specopscom to comply with any Resolution which is not in the best interests of United Specopscom will be responded to by any means necessary including but hopefully not, military means.

Too bad, the gnomes always win. :) ;)

May the blessings of our otters be upon you.

Leonard Otterby
Ambassador for the Republic of Compadria to the U.N.

OOC: You can still RP non-compliance with that resolution. You just have to be smart about it and don't make it apperant, so that you won't get flamed.

No need to use your military, just look for loopholes and such. Gruenberg and I have tried non-complaince before, and it is fun RPing.

But, use loopholes in the resolution. Sometimes a resolution may be full of URGES or REQUESTs or such. You can ignore them. And, you can always twist the spirit of the resolution so that it means nothing. Just don't make it apperant. And no threatening militray actions.

Alternatively, one could leave the UN just before a resolution is passed, and then once the resolution is passed, rejoin the UN. The laws is techincally not on your books.

Alternatively, one could leave the UN just before a resolution is passed, and then once the resolution is passed, rejoin the UN. The laws is techincally not on your books.

OOC: I always took this as a strategy to duck the stats changes associated with resolutions. I've always considered all prior UN legislation to apply to all nations, regardless of whether they were members when it passed.

OOC: I always took this as a strategy to duck the stats changes associated with resolutions. I've always considered all prior UN legislation to apply to all nations, regardless of whether they were members when it passed.

Agreed.

The United Nations Ministry of Compliance has Telegramed my nation and has informed me that I quote "Laws have been enacted to bring United Specopscom into compliance with the IT Resoultion". My nation also recieved a telegram of the same nature concerning the Global Food Act.

Yes, we all receive those...


My nation will NOT be forced to comply with any resolution which attempts to force my nation to change it's laws and regulations to ones which are not in the interests of my nation. My nation will not be forced to comly with any resolution which attempts to replace my nations government with one which the UN wishes.

Your nation isn't forced... The process is completely mandatory by the voluntary subjugation of your national laws upon UN rulings which occur by th process of your agreement to enter into the United Nations... You already agreed to subjugate your laws... You cannot sit there and whine like a 2 year old later that it isn't... If you're in the United Nations you are here VOLUNTARILY...


Any attempt by the UN to force United Specopscom to comply with any Resolution which is not in the best interests of United Specopscom will be responded to by any means necessary including but hopefully not, military means.

All UN resolutions are in the best interest of United Specopscom, as long as United Specopscom maintains membership in the UN... And it is not forced, since you voluntarily subjugated your laws to international ruling.

I'm a bit sick of this type of pedantic argument...

once an act is passed in the UN it passes down into nations and they create a law to intergrate it into their statute books.

lets take an example. UNR #18 which covers research into hydrogen powered vehicles.

when we joined the UN this was one of the acts we intergrated into our laws. once this passed through our parliment our scientists got to work and began research into hydrogen powered engines.

since thats all the act was about thats all they had to do. the research is promising and the first prototypes are nearly ready. we are also converting existing military vehicles to bio-diesel as well since we can see these technologies being required at the same time.

we could have looked at the problem, reported back to the government and that would have been the end of it. we had complied with the act.

we loose a little sovereignty when we join the UN since we have to abide by the resolutions but i would disagree that we become UN yes men when we sign up.

we still retain a lot of national sovereighty, the right to vote and to debate.

Well it seems your country will either have to reject the UN and leave, or put up and shut up. I left the UN but got bored because I wanted a say in international politics. If anything I don't like comes up, try and post a repeal discussion on it.
Optischer

The United Nations Ministry of Compliance has Telegramed my nation and has informed me that I quote "Laws have been enacted to bring United Specopscom into compliance with the IT Resoultion". My nation also recieved a telegram of the same nature concerning the Global Food Act.

My nation will NOT be forced to comply with any resolution which attempts to force my nation to change it's laws and regulations to ones which are not in the interests of my nation. My nation will not be forced to comly with any resolution which attempts to replace my nations government with one which the UN wishes.

Any attempt by the UN to force United Specopscom to comply with any Resolution which is not in the best interests of United Specopscom will be responded to by any means necessary including but hopefully not, military means.Welcome to the UN club old boy which by agreeing to be a member you have agreed to abide by its rules and resolutions. Now stop bitching and sit down and have a Brandy.

Un Forces Compliance
the UN has forces?

Welcome to the UN club old boy which by agreeing to be a member you have agreed to abide by its rules and resolutions. Now stop bitching and sit down and have a Brandy.

I recommend a decent Cobdenian Cognac. Preferably the Wellington XO. Actually, I have a bottle of Montgomery Hors D'age in my office, somewhere...

The United Nations Ministry of Compliance has Telegramed my nation and has informed me that I quote "Laws have been enacted to bring United Specopscom into compliance with the IT Resoultion". My nation also recieved a telegram of the same nature concerning the Global Food Act.

My nation will NOT be forced to comply with any resolution which attempts to force my nation to change it's laws and regulations to ones which are not in the interests of my nation. My nation will not be forced to comly with any resolution which attempts to replace my nations government with one which the UN wishes.

Any attempt by the UN to force United Specopscom to comply with any Resolution which is not in the best interests of United Specopscom will be responded to by any means necessary including but hopefully not, military means.

Every game has rules in it. This game has a rule that if you're in the UN, you must follow every single decision the UN makes to the letter. People who don't follow the rules are called "cheaters". I'm sure you've met those cheaters before in many other games, and I'm sure you've had your frustration and/or fun with them. Regardless, we all know that you can't control cheaters and often the easiest way to deal with cheaters is to....well....simply not play with them. Obiviously, since this game is only on one server, this is rather difficult, but the server compensates this by giving us the right to....well......ignore you.

So, if you wish to continue to not play by the rules and cheat, then consider yourself ignored.

If you wish to play by the rules, we shall teach you how to follow them and how to dodge parts of them that you don't like or even all of it (leaving the UN, for example)

Choose
Shall you be a member of this community who might not always get his/her way or
Shall you be a person disassociated and ignored by this community - but at least you are God of your own domain.

Every game has rules in it. This game has a rule that if you're in the UN, you must follow every single decision the UN makes to the letter. People who don't follow the rules are called "cheaters". I'm sure you've met those cheaters before in many other games, and I'm sure you've had your frustration and/or fun with them. Regardless, we all know that you can't control cheaters and often the easiest way to deal with cheaters is to....well....simply not play with them. Obiviously, since this game is only on one server, this is rather difficult, but the server compensates this by giving us the right to....well......ignore you.

So, if you wish to continue to not play by the rules and cheat, then consider yourself ignored.

If you wish to play by the rules, we shall teach you how to follow them and how to dodge parts of them that you don't like or even all of it (leaving the UN, for example)

Choose
Shall you be a member of this community who might not always get his/her way or
Shall you be a person disassociated and ignored by this community - but at least you are God of your own domain.
I would choose "Be a God" every time, However, choose wisely as i have found, Omnipitence = Lonelyness.
So whos for chess with that cobdenian cognac?

haha he just threatened war on the game engine

I would choose "Be a God" every time, However, choose wisely as i have found, Omnipitence = Lonelyness.
So whos for chess with that cobdenian cognac?
*sob* nobody loves me.

the UN has forces?
trust my little joke here to be overlooked....

trust my little joke here to be overlooked....

Nah - I just couldn't think of an equally witty response.

My nation will NOT be forced to comply with any resolution which attempts to force my nation to change it's laws and regulations to ones which are not in the interests of my nation. My nation will not be forced to comly with any resolution which attempts to replace my nations government with one which the UN wishes.

Please consult this URL for about non-compliance of UN resolutions: http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=9900794&postcount=8

Any attempt by the UN to force United Specopscom to comply with any Resolution which is not in the best interests of United Specopscom will be responded to by any means necessary including but hopefully not, military means.

1. My nation is bigger than you. If I really wanted to I could force you to accept by turning your nation into an annex of Hirota.

2. You can't beat the gnomes. You can talk to them very quickly and sometimes work around them, but they are pretty tough in a fight.

*sob* nobody loves me.

Sir Cyril sidles over to God, puts his arm around her shoulder and tries to comfort her in the traditional Cobdenian way.

"Pull yourself together woman! Why, in my day Dieties never used to shew there emotions!"

Following or not following the Resolutions of the UN does not make nor not make a cheater. Nor does it define a cheater. A cheater would be someone who say, hacked into Nation States and attempted to or did change the code or rules that govern the UN. I have not done so. Nor do I know how, nor do I even want to learn. So as being defined as a cheater, well you are mistaken.

Nation States is about Role Playing. Role Playing includes being the leader of my nation and being a member of the UN. It also includes, but is not limited to, following or not following the resolutions of the UN. Role Playing is exactly what I have and will do in this Political based Role Playing game. Now I did not say that I would follow the resolutions that I don't like. Nor did I say that I wouldn't follow those same resolutions. I am Role Playing the issue. Which is exactly what you are supposed to do here.

If you don't think that role playing is a part of this game, then maybe you shouldn't be here and playing this game. As for ignoring me, well if you don't think that role playing is a part of this game and you seem to think that I am a cheater, then, well, I would really not give a rats ass if you ignored me or not. I also would really rather not see, read nor reply to any posts or threads of yours from this moment on.

Have a nice day. Rule good, rule strong, rule with CommonSense

Nation States is about Role Playing. Role Playing includes being the leader of my nation and being a member of the UN. It also includes, but is not limited to, following or not following the resolutions of the UN. Role Playing is exactly what I have and will do in this Political based Role Playing game. Now I did not say that I would follow the resolutions that I don't like. Nor did I say that I wouldn't follow those same resolutions. I am Role Playing the issue. Which is exactly what you are supposed to do here.
Well, I imagine that would mean your thread belongs more in the "Nationstates" or "International Incidents" forums. This forum is more for discussion possible legislation, than role-playing noncompliance.

Following or not following the Resolutions of the UN does not make nor not make a cheater.It's a moot point, you can't ignore them from a game mechanics perspective, and that's all that affects your nations stats. Roleplay all you want, does it make a difference to a nations stats? Nope. That's why people say you can't ignore resolutions - you can, but it doesn't change the reality of the impact you have on your game.Nation States is about Role Playing. Role Playing includes being the leader of my nation and being a member of the UN.Not entirely, but we shall let that one slide.It also includes, but is not limited to, following or not following the resolutions of the UN. Role Playing is exactly what I have and will do in this Political based Role Playing game.You get a few choices you can roleplay with the Un which make any difference. You can join, you can leave, and you can vote. Everything else is roleplay, but has no substance.If you don't think that role playing is a part of this game, then maybe you shouldn't be here and playing this game.I don't think roleplaying is especially important, yet I'm going to stay thanks. Roleplaying at the end of the day is just bells and whistles people attach in their imagination to the cold and mechanical heart of the UN. Feel free to roleplay, just realise that it doesn't make a difference to your stats at the end of it.

Following or not following the Resolutions of the UN does not make nor not make a cheater. Nor does it define a cheater. A cheater would be someone who say, hacked into Nation States and attempted to or did change the code or rules that govern the UN. I have not done so. Nor do I know how, nor do I even want to learn. So as being defined as a cheater, well you are mistaken.

Hardly. Considering that it is quite clearly stated in the FAQ, compliance is mandatory. You may have noticed the little message in your TG saying that you have been brought INTO COMPLIANCE with the resolution (oh, that's right, that's where this entire debate started). Does this sound optional? Nope. The parts writted by Max Barry have not suggested or hinted that you have an option. So now you're going to tell me that you are going to ignore what you have been told by the GAME ENGINE and pretend it never happened and say "I am not cheating"? Please

Nation States is about Role Playing. Role Playing includes being the leader of my nation and being a member of the UN.

False. The decision of being a member of the UN is an optional one.

It also includes, but is not limited to, following or not following the resolutions of the UN.

False. Read the FAQ. You follow the UN resolutions regardless. You only get an option if you are not part of the game. Yes there are some people who successfully role play non-compliance, but the vast majority that say "You cannot force your opinions on me. I ignore your attempts to force compliance" get written off as godmodders or wankers (aka: cheaters). In this case, your cheating doesn't get punished in the form of being removed from the game, but ignored as a poor roleplayer, for you ignored the rules laid down by those roleplayers that came before you and the people who set up the roleplay abilities in the first place. It isn't enforced by the mods, its enforced by the community. To defy the rules set down is to defy the community.

Role Playing is exactly what I have and will do in this Political based Role Playing game. Now I did not say that I would follow the resolutions that I don't like. Nor did I say that I wouldn't follow those same resolutions. I am Role Playing the issue. Which is exactly what you are supposed to do here.

Actually, you are failing to roleplay the issue. You have said "I defy you" but you have done little else. You have not parsed the text of the resolution and said what parts you are ignoring. You have not said why. You have not done a thousand things that you could've done to roleplay. Heck, you didn't even put this role play in the right forum. So no, I would say you are not roleplaying the issue. I would say you are quite clearly godmodding the issue. The very fact that you have had to state "I refuse to comply with this resolution" considering the resolution in question indicates your failure to properly roleplay (the resolution does fuck all, you don't have to roleplay squat).

If you don't think that role playing is a part of this game, then maybe you shouldn't be here and playing this game. As for ignoring me, well if you don't think that role playing is a part of this game and you seem to think that I am a cheater, then, well, I would really not give a rats ass if you ignored me or not. I also would really rather not see, read nor reply to any posts or threads of yours from this moment on.


I'm guessing that there was a misunderstanding of what I meant. When I said you were being ignored, I was not saying you were being ignored BECAUSE you were a roleplayer, but rather that you were being ignored AS a roleplayer. That is, you are being ignored insofar as your roleplaying will not be accepted as legit roleplaying and you shall be ignored for cheating/godmodding/wanking/etc.

Have a nice day. Rule good, rule strong, rule with CommonSense

I shall have a nice day, you have certainly given me more than enough humor for the week.

*sob* nobody loves me.
we love ya, jus some times we have disagreements over the tapestry, thats all.

-SNIP-

The game doesn't care what you say. The game makes the rules in your nation no matter what you say. You have no say in what the UN Gnomes do to your laws. If you don't want those laws then why are you still in the UN? Just cause you made a nation doesn't mean you have to stay in the UN. You are free to come and go as you please.

Emperor Galen Q. Leotardia

If you don't think that role playing is a part of this game, then maybe you shouldn't be here and playing this game. As for ignoring me, well if you don't think that role playing is a part of this game and you seem to think that I am a cheater, then, well, I would really not give a rats ass if you ignored me or not. I also would really rather not see, read nor reply to any posts or threads of yours from this moment on.


I think I have maybe posted one roleplaying post in the year or so I have been playing this, and I don't think anyone would suggest that I am not playing this game.

For me - NS is about debating issues and fighting with people over what you believe in. Fighting in a non-physical way of course, since punching the monitor hurts (seriously - don't do it, even if you get annoyed). I don't roleplay and - quite honestly - I care very little for the future of my nation (I only make decisions cause otherwise I would forget to go to my nation and it would get deleted) but I like debating/arguing/fighting etc.

I'm going to voice slight dissent. I think one of the best RPs to come out of the UN forum was the Great Dodgeball War; born out of non-compliance, which was put down in just this manner by some UN forumgoers, and dismissed as illegal by a mod. But it was an interesting story.

I don't think it's my place to say what NS is 'about'. It a political simulation game; if you believe the game mechanics are too limited to accurately perform that, then of course RPing is the answer. If your prime interest is in debating, then the game caters for that too. I don't think anyone can claim ownership of the game, except Max Barry.

So, my objection to US's approach is not that, per se, it is a bad idea, that we should all dismiss. It's that it's poor roleplaying. Leaving aside the fact that this is the wrong resolution to non-comply with, as it's ignorable, there's the issue that we have no plot to this, no idea of what's going on, no reaction in his nation. He presumably hasn't TGed people to ask for them to post IC responses. If someone non-complied, with a well-written post, that provoked an interesting thought, and that perhaps was as useful to the process of considering legislation as OOC debating, I'd be more than happy to respond.

After all, are we to condemn people who don't use the game exactly in every respect. Those who ignore the population stats? Those who accept that having a 0% education budget is silly? No: so long as they roleplay well, we don't care. Not everyone is interested in RP; big deal. Ignore it. But to those who are, I see non-compliance as an interesting opportunity, however technically legal. It probably is illegal. All the more reason to actively RP it, then! No international body is composed of docile donkeys...wait. Few international bodies are composed of docile donkeys, and I think it's a better political simulation to cope with someone non-complying.

In this case, it's stupid. But I wouldn't rule out the possibility of an interesting RP coming from a better start. And those who would need not respond: they can continue debating and so on as they like. There is nothing wrong with a bit of creativity: this game was designed by an author, wasn't it?

Gruen: claims of non-compliance/claims of roleplaying non-compliance are ignored by default. However, if the person makes it much more than a claim and something that people were not only getting frustrated with, but actually feeling that it was truly being roleplayed (as opposed to just a simple claim), then some of the community will start to listen. I know TH has said that he probably would still call it godmodding, and I don't RP very much (though I would, personally call it godmodding myself), but there are some that will listen. But the end result is you need to first get the community to listen - and you don't need a mediocre RP, you need a pretty good RP to get non-compliance to be considered a valid RP.

That said, you'll note in my latter post that I did refrain from saying all RPed non-compliance is bad and I did, in addendum, criticize his RP style.