NationStates Jolt Archive

Would you all consider approving "Convict Reform" at the UN

Would you all consider approving the proposal "Convict Reform"

Would you consider posting the text here so we know what it says?

Bob Flibble
UN Representative

UN discussion is generally carried on in the UN forum, not here. You'll get better response, and such for future ref - and this sort of thing is often deleted or moved on account when out of place.

is there a link or a copy to be posted here? also, a little piece of advice: tread lightly hear because many proposals that deal with the judicial system usually get shouted down by 'UN shouldnt be poking their nose in here'. whilst your proposal maybe well written, it may be seen as the UN overstepping the National Sovereignty boundry. but post it here and we will have a look.

Here it is.
Convict Reform

A resolution to improve world security by boosting police and military budgets.


Category: International Security


Strength: Strong


Proposed by: Deadlanticus

Description: The people of Deadlanticus do not believe in providing any "extras" to criminals. Those not wishing to comply with the law are undeserving of the freedoms they have violated. Deadlanticus supports capital punishment, however, many others may not. Deadlanticus offers the following proposal:
1. All convicted felons will serve out their maximum punishment without parole, this will cut back on the number of repeat offenders as well as instill a good and health fear and respect for the law
2. All convicted felons will not be allowed to vote, work for wages, or continue education in any way. Televisions, radios, books, magazines, and other sorts of recreation will be eliminated.
3. All convicted felons will have the option to shorten their sentence by working off their debt to society in public works such as road construction, building construction, trash pick up, etc. This will provide free labor and is not a forced mandate, rather an option that inmates may choose
4. All repeat offenders will serve a mandatory 2 years in the military. This will deter future repeats and will provide free soldiers. In addition, the military service will help instill a sense of pride, order, and work ethic into the convicts while enabling them to work and earn wages.
5. All child molesters, rapists, and murderers of the 1st degree will be put to death immediately upon being found guilty by a jury of their peers.

OOC: Yow. This is going to get rough.

IC:

The government of Krioval is perplexed by this proposal. We find it surprising that one feels that one advances the cause of justice by denying any possibility for criminal rehabilitation to occur, and harsh measures like denying books and magazines to convicts seems to be included more from spite than a serious commitment to reforming national sentencing codes. While we, as the society of Krioval, do often use voluntary criminal labor, we are quick to point out that the program is open only to those convicted of nonviolent crimes. We are horrified that a nation could actually suggest granting a criminal the honor of being a soldier! Unless one's army consists of untrained citizens receiving arms and orders to enter the field of battle, Krioval cannot begin to comprehend why a nation would invest in a criminal the ability to fight, and therefore become a greater threat to society than he or she was earlier. Krioval does not use its military as a glorified boarding school for those requiring responsibility - our military exists solely to be trained for battle. Those wishing to avoid conflict can find many programs suited to engendering a sense of responsibility and civic pride in the civilian sector in Krioval, and we are forced to wonder why this is not an option considered in all nations.

Finally, Krioval is unwilling to mandate the penalty of death for any offense in all nations. It is the height of cultural insensitivity and hubris to believe that one is capable of assessing the methods of justice employed in another nation, and capital punishment, being irreversible, requires that one be perfect in ascertaining guilt. For these reasons, Krioval must oppose this ill-conceived proposal. Frankly, and please excuse my poor command of colloquial English, this proposal exhibits vacuumlike properties on a level that I have seldom before witnessed.

高原由
クリオヴァル

Yoshi Takahara
Krioval

http://nationstates.net/page=UN_proposal1/match=convict

Convict Reform
Category: International Security
Strength: Strong
Proposed by: Deadlanticus

Description: The people of Deadlanticus do not believe in providing any "extras" to criminals. Those not wishing to comply with the law are undeserving of the freedoms they have violated. Deadlanticus supports capital punishment, however, many others may not. Deadlanticus offers the following proposal:
1. All convicted felons will serve out their maximum punishment without parole, this will cut back on the number of repeat offenders as well as instill a good and health fear and respect for the law
2. All convicted felons will not be allowed to vote, work for wages, or continue education in any way. Televisions, radios, books, magazines, and other sorts of recreation will be eliminated.
3. All convicted felons will have the option to shorten their sentence by working off their debt to society in public works such as road construction, building construction, trash pick up, etc. This will provide free labor and is not a forced mandate, rather an option that inmates may choose
4. All repeat offenders will serve a mandatory 2 years in the military. This will deter future repeats and will provide free soldiers. In addition, the military service will help instill a sense of pride, order, and work ethic into the convicts while enabling them to work and earn wages.
5. All child molesters, rapists, and murderers of the 1st degree will be put to death immediately upon being found guilty by a jury of their peers.

Meddles with our court system for no good reason, so no support here.

Description: The people of Deadlanticus do not believe in providing any "extras" to criminals. Those not wishing to comply with the law are undeserving of the freedoms they have violated. Deadlanticus supports capital punishment, however, many others may not. Deadlanticus offers the following proposal:


Pallatium believes that criminals are people who have merely lost their way, and need to be helped rather than punished/hindered.


1. All convicted felons will serve out their maximum punishment without parole, this will cut back on the number of repeat offenders as well as instill a good and health fear and respect for the law


This will create a lot of pissed off people, and create a "meaner" envorinment in nations. Fear of law might go up, but so will discontent with the powers that be.


2. All convicted felons will not be allowed to vote, work for wages, or continue education in any way. Televisions, radios, books, magazines, and other sorts of recreation will be eliminated.


Is this only while they are in prison? Or does it also apply after they have been released? (I know it sounds a dumb question, but the way it is phrased does leave it open for intepretation)


3. All convicted felons will have the option to shorten their sentence by working off their debt to society in public works such as road construction, building construction, trash pick up, etc. This will provide free labor and is not a forced mandate, rather an option that inmates may choose


Contradicts clause one where it says EVERYONE must serve out their FULL sentence.


4. All repeat offenders will serve a mandatory 2 years in the military. This will deter future repeats and will provide free soldiers. In addition, the military service will help instill a sense of pride, order, and work ethic into the convicts while enabling them to work and earn wages.


What if a nation does not have a military? What if your repeat offence is jay-walking and you have no desire to kill people (which is what military service entails) And what if I disagree that the military teaches you have a sense of pride and instead thinks the military teaches you to kill people you haven't met, simply because you have been told to?


5. All child molesters, rapists, and murderers of the 1st degree will be put to death immediately upon being found guilty by a jury of their peers.


We don't have a death penatly, and we have no desire to put on in place because it never helps matters. Further more this does not allow for an appeal in any way, shape or form and you will find a lot of nations have an appeals system.


I kind of get what you are trying to do, but (being the liberal, bleeding heart, pinko-commie nation that I am) can't support it :}

I think it's clear The Pictish People and Deadlanticus have no idea what national soverignty is.

Opposed by Hirota.

The people of Deadlanticus do not believe in providing any "extras" to criminals. Those not wishing to comply with the law are undeserving of the freedoms they have violated. Deadlanticus supports capital punishment, however, many others may not.So why force other nations to practice the death penalty?

1. All convicted felons will serve out their maximum punishment without parole, this will cut back on the number of repeat offenders as well as instill a good and health fear and respect for the lawNo it wont. Nations will just reduce their punishments.
2. All convicted felons will not be allowed to vote,[quote]Possibly illegal against previous resolution, and certainly undemocratic[quote]work for wages, or continue education in any way.Education is the only way for many to come out of the criminal lifestyleTelevisions, radios, books, magazines, and other sorts of recreation will be eliminated.So they all become virtual slaves then?
3. All convicted felons will have the option to shorten their sentence by working off their debt to society in public works such as road construction, building construction, trash pick up, etc. This will provide free labor and is not a forced mandate, rather an option that inmates may chooseThat's almost fair, but it should not just be forced labour.
4. All repeat offenders will serve a mandatory 2 years in the military. This will deter future repeats and will provide free soldiers. In addition, the military service will help instill a sense of pride, order, and work ethic into the convicts while enabling them to work and earn wages.1. Not all nations have armies.
2. There are nations with conscription already
3. There are nations with national service.
5. All child molesters, rapists, and murderers of the 1st degree will be put to death immediately upon being found guilty by a jury of their peers.Infringes on nat sov.

No no no. Not getting any sort of support from this member state.

having read over this our views can be summed up very easily.

There is no way we could support this. We are firm believers in national sovereignty and we say again there should be no meddling with a nations justice system.

if the proposal works for you fair enough. apply in your own country but don't bring it up here.

just as i thought it would be. despite it being illegal due to branding, it is dealing with what nations can and cant do with its criminals, thus interfering with NatSov, thus not getting our vote and being shouted down by others....

I agree with all but two pieces on here, the choice of whether or not to serve the public. Don't let them out at all. Keep them in where they can be producing money for the economy, and paying for their stay at Her Majesties Inn. It basically makes sure they are paying extra for the wonderful stay at Hotel Sunshine.
Also, don't kill all the people on no.5, just do what I have proposed in my genetic experiment thread. Let scientests discover what causes crime, and let them destroy the gene in everybody, and replace it with a loyal, honest and true citizen.
Opticsher

Zyryanov took the podium with a mildly fatigued look on her face.

"This is a clear violation of national sovereignty. It attempts to impose usage of the death penalty, and to interfere with the judicial and military systems of sovereign member nations. It will be rejected by all civilised nations, and by all not-so-civilised ones who nevertheless value their sovereignty. I would call upon member nations to stop wasting the time of this august Assembly with such proposals. Thank you; I have nothing more to say on behalf of the PDSRA."


Christelle Zyryanov,
Ambassador to the United Nations,
PDSRA

C