NationStates Jolt Archive

I wish to start a coalition of Socialist UN nations agaist free trade resolutions and in favor of economic sovereignty. Anyone interested?

it certainly sounds interesting. i'll also show this to my region since they all don't have access to this forum.

Why socialists? A lot of non-socialist countries would be interested in this!

And not all socialist countries are against free trade. This socialist nation supports it.

Plus some non-socialist countries are against free trade!

I am very interested.

Just out of curiousity, but why would a socialist government be coming out in favor of free trade? With a political philosophy promoting government control of the economy, one would think unrestricted trade would be the last thing they would want.

Because the government does control it and its not unrestricted. With private enterprise being illegal in our nation, the state owns and controls the entire process of every industry, from production to export. Its all state owned and run. Nothing happens without government approval.

With free trade in place, more markets open up to our goods and the more overall product we sell.

(OOC)
Thats the simplest way I can put whats rambling through my mind. I'm not an expert on economics. In fact I know very little about it, but the above makes sense :).

It sounds like the socialists would have a lot in common with the NatSov's especially when the words "economic sovereignty" are mentioned.

I'd be interested in joining, I think I'm a bit more moderate than most, but if I feel out of place I can always drop out.

We now have forums on the UNO website as the Economic Sovernty(sp) organiztion.

that's http://s3.invisionfree.com/UN_Organizations/

Well, we are a democratic socialist nation which believes in self-sufficiency first and the minimisation of trade to natural surpluses. We would be interested in joining, but we realize that some nations, who lack diverse natural resources, are more reliant on trade than others. So reliant, in fact, that they have been known to attack nations who refuse to trade with them on terms they prefer.

For the record, Mikitivity is a progressive capitalist state, however, we do not believe in open markets, because rarely are they truely open. The very fact that a government has to open or close a market implies that there is some natural government control over the market, and we feel this is a good thing. My government is considering joining the ESO.

[OOC: One of the most capitalistic nations you'll find is Switzerland, which is marginally *not* in favour of open markets. This summer when I visited, Geneva canton was voting on integration into the European Union, and it should be of no surprise the anti-EU campaign was in part related to a loss of sovereignty that tends to occur when trade barriers begin to be officially torn down.

Given that I prefer using RL models like Switzerland for my roleplay, I happen to like the idea of an economic sovereignty coalition.

In the NationStates UN forum, many players tend to view resolutions and agreements in very absolute terms. This is a trend I don't see mirror in many of the off-site forum discussions.

Anyways, I wanted to point out that when nations have been joining the EU, there are a number of issues that need to be discussed. I thought the following Wiki chart might put something of a face on the sorts of monkey's unilateral free trade creates:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enlargement_of_the_European_Union

Go to progress in the 6th enlargement.

Now that I hope I've demostrated that "Free Trade" is an extremely complex and important sovereign issue, I'd like to state that when it comes to NationStates UN resolutions, I'd rather "Free Trade" category resolutions get specific.

Looking at that chart, you could make resolutions just on customs issues or fisheries markets ... but my fear is that players will see "Free Trade" and vote in favour, without realizing that even some of the most capitalistic nations in the world aren't *really* interested in simplying pulling down barriers without first neogitating lengthy details.]

Compadria is not socialist, but rather social-democratic and in some cases we favour free trade. Nevertheless, we are sympathetic to many of the aims of the socialist movements and regard it as encouraging to see the progressive forces of the left allying with one another instead of criticising their associates constantly over ideological minutae.

May the blessings of our otters be upon you.

Leonard Otterby
Ambassador for the Republic of Compadria to the U.N.

Because the government does control it and its not unrestricted. With private enterprise being illegal in our nation, the state owns and controls the entire process of every industry, from production to export. Its all state owned and run. Nothing happens without government approval.

With free trade in place, more markets open up to our goods and the more overall product we sell.

(OOC)
Thats the simplest way I can put whats rambling through my mind. I'm not an expert on economics. In fact I know very little about it, but the above makes sense :).

Waterana, if you have some time for me, i will be interested to know if nations, were private enterprise is illegal, comply with #130 Global Food Distribution Act
http://www.nationstates.net/page=UN_past_resolutions/start=129
and if so, how it works;)

Waterana, if you have some time for me, i will be interested to know if nation, were private enterprise is illegal, comply with #130 Global Food Distribution Act
http://www.nationstates.net/page=UN_past_resolutions/start=129
and if so, how it works;)

Of course we comply with the GFDA. Just because they aren't privately owned doesn't mean we don't have farms or produce food and trade/export the excess product. The laws put in place under GFDA just apply to the government/nation, and not individuals.

I can't go into full on detail because, as I've said 100 times before on this forum, I'm clueless on economic stuff, but don't see how the GFDA wouldn't apply to our nation and others like it.

Of course we comply with the GFDA. Just because they aren't privately owned doesn't mean we don't have farms or produce food and trade/export the excess product. The laws put in place under GFDA just apply to the government/nation, and not individuals.

I can't go into full on detail because, as I've said 100 times before on this forum, I'm clueless on economic stuff, but don't see how the GFDA wouldn't apply to our nation and others like it.


I was considering mostly imports, but I suppose you use the "cultural" Exception of the resolution, to forbid foreign private food companies to sell on your market?
Am i right?:p

For what we need to import, the state buys direct from the nation concerned, then distributes within our nation as necessary. There is no need for foreign companies to operate on our soil. In fact as they can't set up shop legally in our nation, most don't bother trying.

Of course there are nations that refuse to trade with us because we won't let their big businesses get a toe hold in Waterana, but there are many more who are willing and happy to. We have had little trouble finding markets for our excess goods or nations willing to sell us what we need.

For what we need to import, the state buys direct from the nation concerned, then distributes within our nation as necessary. There is no need for foreign companies to operate on our soil. In fact as they can't set up shop legally in our nation, most don't bother trying.

Private LAE food companies, are in fact complaining our government that they cannot operate in order to try to sell their food in Waterana. They make us noticed the clause:

3. REQUIRES the gradual reduction, in stages, of all protectionist mechanisms in the trade of food including, but not limited to, Tariffs, Duties, Farm Subsidies and Subventions.

So i don't want to send a request of intervention to the United Nations Free Trade Commission (UNFTC), but my government agree with them, it seems to us unfair, and it seems to us that you don't comply with #130, sorry;)

Private LAE food companies, are in fact complaining our government that they cannot operate in order to try to sell their food in Waterana. They make us noticed the clause:

3. REQUIRES the gradual reduction, in stages, of all protectionist mechanisms in the trade of food including, but not limited to, Tariffs, Duties, Farm Subsidies and Subventions.

So i don't want to send a request of intervention to the United Nations Free Trade Commission (UNFTC), but my government agree, and it seems to us unfair, sorry;)

Well thats strange, because we believe in free trade and don't have any protectionist measures in place such as tarrifs, duties, and subsidies (why the heck would our state subsidise itself?). The only "protection" we have is the law against private enterprise, and that only applies to my citizens and/or Wateranan soil.

The only thing your companies can't do is set up a permanent private business on our soil because that would be breaking our laws. It doesn't stop individual representatives of your companies coming into our nation and negotiating a trade agreement with our government. It also doesn't stop our representatives going to your nation and negotiating such agreements on your soil.

Private enterprises, ie businesses, are illegal here, talking to and negotiating with people representing foreign private companies isn't.

(OOC) LAE, you are going to win any debate on this subject with me simply because I don't have the knowedge on the subject to argue effectively with you.

Well thats strange, because we believe in free trade and don't have any protectionist measures in place such as tarrifs, duties, and subsidies (why the heck would our state subsidise itself?). The only "protection" we have is the law against private enterprise, and that only applies to my citizens and/or Wateranan soil.

The only thing your companies can't do is set up a permanent private business on our soil because that would be breaking our laws. It doesn't stop individual representatives of your companies coming into our nation and negotiating a trade agreement with our government. It also doesn't stop our representatives going to your nation and negotiating such agreements on your soil.

Private enterprises, ie businesses, are illegal here, talking to and negotiating with people representing foreign private companies isn't.

(OOC) LAE, you are going to win any debate on this subject with me simply because I don't have the knowedge on the subject to argue effectively with you.

So, LAE private food companies businessman can come into Waterana, and try to sell food to your people and you administration, they just cannot do it by creating a company there, that's ok, we will not comply with the UNFTC:)

I didn't try to debate with you, but just try to know how it's working in Waterana, thanks for your answer

I'd join in I guess, pretty socialist myself.

Although, before joining, I have to ask...is the focus of this coalition based solely against combatting free trade? Or will it extend to other issues (ex: Universal healthcare)?

Right now It's about combating free trade, but if the members want other wise, it can change. Nobody has joined, so I don't know

The Empire of Kirisubo would be interested in joining now we've got our social democratic tag back.

i would hope that we could tackle more than free trade.

On second thought I'd prefer it to just be anti-free trade. I don't want this to be an anti-sovereigntist monster.

Given that my government sometimes supports very detailed / specific free trade agreements, but at other times recognizes the sovereign right of nations to protect themselves economically (or to use trade as a political tool), Mikitivity would like to be an observer nation to the ESC (and will pay dues as a full member).

OOC: I don't have the time to join another organisation but if this gets off the ground then I may reconsider in the future. Good luck.

tag - mild interest although we are certainly NOT a socialist nation

IT is now called Ecoonomic Sovernty(sp) coalition. non-socialists are welcome.

OOC: I don't have the time to join another organisation but if this gets off the ground then I may reconsider in the future. Good luck.

OOC: That is why I always ask to be an observer. I have time to lurk, but no free time to organize anything. Weekends I often run to my family's place, and for months I've been pretty busy at work (which isn't *always* a bad thing).

For the record, Mikitivity is a progressive capitalist state, however, we do not believe in open markets, because rarely are they truely open. The very fact that a government has to open or close a market implies that there is some natural government control over the market, and we feel this is a good thing. My government is considering joining the ESO.

[OOC: One of the most capitalistic nations you'll find is Switzerland, which is marginally *not* in favour of open markets. This summer when I visited, Geneva canton was voting on integration into the European Union, and it should be of no surprise the anti-EU campaign was in part related to a loss of sovereignty that tends to occur when trade barriers begin to be officially torn down.

Given that I prefer using RL models like Switzerland for my roleplay, I happen to like the idea of an economic sovereignty coalition.

In the NationStates UN forum, many players tend to view resolutions and agreements in very absolute terms. This is a trend I don't see mirror in many of the off-site forum discussions.

Anyways, I wanted to point out that when nations have been joining the EU, there are a number of issues that need to be discussed. I thought the following Wiki chart might put something of a face on the sorts of monkey's unilateral free trade creates:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enlargement_of_the_European_Union

Go to progress in the 6th enlargement.

Now that I hope I've demostrated that "Free Trade" is an extremely complex and important sovereign issue, I'd like to state that when it comes to NationStates UN resolutions, I'd rather "Free Trade" category resolutions get specific.

Looking at that chart, you could make resolutions just on customs issues or fisheries markets ... but my fear is that players will see "Free Trade" and vote in favour, without realizing that even some of the most capitalistic nations in the world aren't *really* interested in simplying pulling down barriers without first neogitating lengthy details.]

Interesting, another comparisson between the EU and NSUN. I've been thinking the NSUN and EU are similar for sometime now.