NationStates Jolt Archive

A few weeks ago, I began wondering whether the UN is still located in Stephistan (as I mistakenly believed it once had been). I started a thread (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=450851) asking about it, then TGed Stephistan herself, who told me the UN had never been in her nation; it had been in the RPU, which is now closed.

Which meant that the UN was, at that point, nowhere. Or, rather, that its location was indeterminate.

So I decided, why not have it in Ariddia? It put the suggestion forward in the thread mentioned above, and there was both support and objections. When the objections failed to structure or gather round a counter-claim, I weighed the pros and cons for several days, then decided to maintain my claim.

More recently, Gruenberg has (quite rightly) suggested that very few people are probably aware of it - hence this thread.

I just want to make a couple of things clear about my "claim". First, the point of it. The point is to provide a setting for anyone who wants to roleplay the UN being in a specific location, whether to have their representatives arrive there and take part in debates, have their ambassadors reside there (I once started an NSwiki article where you can name your ambassador to the UN: http://ns.goobergunch.net/wiki/index.php/List_of_Ambassadors_to_the_United_Nations), or whatever you wish. Until now, there was no opportunity to do that.

Second, I obviously don't expect the whole of the UN to recognise this claim - just as the fact that the UN was previously in the RPU was largely ignored and rarely roleplayed (because most people were unaware of it, I assume). This isn't about trying to impose anything on anyone. It's about providing a setting to those who are interested. In other words, those who don't want to recognise the UN being in Ariddia can simply ignore it, and continue to not roleplay it being anywhere in particular. But for those of you who do want to make use of the location, please feel free to do so. Do with all this as you please. This way there's a setting for any role-play purposes, but no need to acknowledge it if you don't want to.

Any comments are welcome. Should the RPU become active once more and renew its claim, or should a "rival" claim arise and gather consensus, I will, of course, withdraw this one. But, until then, no-one has offered a location for the UN, so I'm doing so now. Thank you for your time. :)

the UN and the IRCO both already exist, i just cant remeber which region it is in

I still will not recognise it until YOU MAKE A BID. Just declaring yourself host and then expecting us all to follow is sheer fucking arrogance. I don't mind you hosting it...if that's what the UN decides.

You may want to look at this: http://s6.invisionfree.com/UN_Old_Guard/index.php?showtopic=371

the UN and the IRCO both already exist, i just cant remeber which region it is in

Well you're wrong. If you're thinking of The Halls of the UN (http://www.nationstates.net/region=the_halls_of_the_un), you're wrong. If not, you're wrong.

DLE would be ashamed.

Well you're wrong. If you're thinking of The Halls of the UN (http://www.nationstates.net/region=the_halls_of_the_un), you're wrong. If not, you're wrong.

DLE would be ashamed.
that is the right one. dunno how those others got there. i am pretty sure UN gnomes is a 'puppet' of MGH, and IRCO is a puppet of flibleites. both are there to serve as representations of the two entities.

that is the right one. dunno how those others got there. i am pretty sure UN gnomes is a 'puppet' of MGH, and IRCO is a puppet of flibleites. both are there to serve as representations of the two entities.

...yeah, and? That's still not a location for them, is it? Those are two organs of the UN.

...yeah, and? That's still not a location for them, is it? Those are two organs of the UN.
i dont want to get into a technical debate over this. ask MGH or Flibbleites, and they will tell you

i dont want to get into a technical debate over this. ask MGH or Flibbleites, and they will tell you

Well, given that Flibbleites' puppet isn't IRCO, I won't ask him. In any case, what's the 'technical debate'? You're saying we should base the offices of the UN in the Secretariat? The Secretariat is IN THE UN OFFICES. That would create a space-time anomaly the size of which even DLE's spaceships would be destroyed from. You're getting confused.

I still will not recognise it until YOU MAKE A BID. Just declaring yourself host and then expecting us all to follow is sheer fucking arrogance. I don't mind you hosting it...if that's what the UN decides.

(bold added)

You seem to have misread:


Second, I obviously don't expect the whole of the UN to recognise this claim - just as the fact that the UN was previously in the RPU was largely ignored and rarely roleplayed (because most people were unaware of it, I assume). This isn't about trying to impose anything on anyone. It's about providing a setting to those who are interested. In other words, those who don't want to recognise the UN being in Ariddia can simply ignore it, and continue to not roleplay it being anywhere in particular. But for those of you who do want to make use of the location, please feel free to do so. Do with all this as you please. This way there's a setting for any role-play purposes, but no need to acknowledge it if you don't want to.


Also, regarding bids:
Should the RPU become active once more and renew its claim, or should a "rival" claim arise and gather consensus, I will, of course, withdraw this one.

You seem to be missing my point when I said for yout o make a bid. If you claim to host them already, then of course people are going to be less inclined to offer their services. It is your very actions that make it less likely they will be contested. A better, less monumentally ego-bloated approach, would be to OFFER to host the UN buildings, and wait until you have had input from the UN community, rather than basing your announcement off a five-page Gameplay thread in which about 10 UN posters replied, only one of whom expressed any support for you. (And, of course, you're still ignoring the fact I made a counter-claim in that thread.) We practice free-form, unmoderated RP in NS: if we are to do that with any success, we need to make sure we play fair.

@Ariddia: Have you asked Hack or Fris of they want to host it elsewhere?

@Ariddia: Have you asked Hack or Fris of they want to host it elsewhere?

'Hack' being The Most Glorious Hack, and 'Fris' being Frisbeteria, I assume? If so, I'll draw their their attention to this thread and ask them if they'd want to. If they do, and if there's a consensus about it, I'll withdraw my own claim, as previously indicated.

The UN exists in all regions at once. Simply step through the specially-designed portals and you are transported immediately the Main Portico.

Striaght ahead of you are the gigantic doors to the General Assembly. Enter, and find your seat. Pardon the racing gnomes who are constantly rearranging the namecards of nations that are joining and leaving.

That endless hallway to your right houses the offices of all the committees and bureaucracies that have been created by resolutions. The noise you hear is the pounding of hammers and whirring of saws, as construction continues to attempt to keep up with the ever-present need for more offices.

On your left is the bank of elevators to the private offices of each of the nations. Be careful entering the two cargo elevators, as there is a large amount of traffic from Ambassadors 'acquiring' office furniture from 'retiring' nations. The express elevator at the end takes you directly to the Stranger's Bar. Watch your footing - it's been known to be a bit slippery.

Behind you are the portals back to your nation. Be sure to dial correctly as you exit. We lost three democratic-nation Ambassadors last week, as they couldn't be bothered to turn off up their cell phones and accidentally dialed themselves home to cannibal nations.

The stairs on either side lead to the Halls of the UN, where the UN Gnomes maintain their offices. It's best if you don't enter, as they are quite busy. The telegram runners from the Compliance Ministry have been known to deal punishing blows to Ambassadors who stepped into their paths.

Visit our Gift Shop, and don't forget to tip. Remember, your UN runs entirely on donations, as taxation is still expressly forbidden.

Thanks for taking the UN tour. Our next tour begins tomorrow at 10:30 sharp. Tell your friends.

Fris (can I call you Fris?) if I wasn't God I'd be worshiping you.

at least we know for sure whats going on. thanks hack!

also don't forget about the strangers bar where stressed and overworked ambassadors hang out :)

TG sent to Hack all the same. ;)

at least we know for sure whats going on. thanks hack!


Are Hack and Fris the same person, then? If so, sorry for that TG... Or was that a slip of the tongue?

Are Hack and Fris the same person, then? If so, sorry for that TG... Or was that a slip of the tongue?
They're different people but they are both puppets of HotRodia.

Are Hack and Fris the same person, then? If so, sorry for that TG... Or was that a slip of the tongue?

They are different people. Not everyone is a puppet of HotRodia, despite what some people may conclude. :cool:

thanks hack!
Huh?

also don't forget about the strangers bar where stressed and overworked ambassadors hang out :)
Are we in the same thread? Did you even read my post?

They are different people. Not everyone is a puppet of HotRodia, despite what some people may conclude. :cool:

I have my suspicions now. :p

*looks around warily*

While I congragulate the UN's support of human rights...

I do worry about the UN Gnomes. They seem to be oppressed by their heavy workload, trying to do whatever it takes to support us. I have a fear that this may be slave labor, or at the very least, make the gnomes exteremnly stressed out. Also, the gnomes are not included in the resolutions, so they don't get the human rights we enjoy.

Should we make propsals that gives gnomes the same rights we humans enjoy?

OOC: Please excuse me for acting like an idiot. I'm just RPing.

Well, given that Flibbleites' puppet isn't IRCO, I won't ask him.
Actually Gruenberg, I have five puppets, but you are correct that the IRCO is not one of them.

Would it not make sense to not base the UN in a fixed location, but ratherhave it moving around between countries? Then it would truly be an International Organisation!

Actually Gruenberg, I have five puppets, but you are correct that the IRCO is not one of them.
oops, i thought it was boss, sorry. must be fris's then, or something like that. i actually asked ages ago about who's puppets UN Gnomes and IRCO were, but i can only remember that the gnomes are Hack's

Would it not make sense to not base the UN in a fixed location, but ratherhave it moving around between countries? Then it would truly be an International Organisation!

Well... In principle, yes, it could be a very nice idea. But in practice, in-game, it would be a nightmare to organise. You'd be talking about moving lots of people into lots of new buildings on a regular basis.

If a way can be found around that problem, then why not... (A way compatible with Present or Past Tech, I mean. Fris' idea is very nice, but not applicable to my nation, for example. I avoid roleplaying with FT).

oops, i thought it was boss, sorry. must be fris's then, or something like that. i actually asked ages ago about who's puppets UN Gnomes and IRCO were, but i can only remember that the gnomes are Hack's
Actually, I found out recently who's behind the IRCO, check your telegrams.

Actually, I found out recently who's behind the IRCO, check your telegrams.
thanx for that, boss

btw, to clear up some things, TLA is nobody's puppet. i only call Flib boss cos he is the region delegate

So I'm assuming Ariddia didn't read Fris's post. So be it. It's a shame: it's a good one.

So I'm assuming Ariddia didn't read Fris's post. So be it. It's a shame: it's a good one.

Actually, it seems Ariddia did read his post.

If a way can be found around that problem, then why not... (A way compatible with Present or Past Tech, I mean. Fris' idea is very nice, but not applicable to my nation, for example. I avoid roleplaying with FT).

So I'm assuming Ariddia didn't read Fris's post. So be it. It's a shame: it's a good one.

I see you haven't read my post.


Fris' idea is very nice, but not applicable to my nation, for example. I avoid roleplaying with FT

It do think it was a good post. But, as I'm sure you'd be the first to say, not applicable to those who, for whatever reason, feel it can't apply to their nation. It's an elegant solution in some ways, and if some nations want to adopt it, good for them. But for my part I'm not going to acknowledge the UN being Future Tech when my own nation is Modern Tech.

Just to clear things up in case my earlier post wasn't clear.

Why did you not say that to Fris instead of telegramming Hack? And if you aren't going to acknowledge Fris' idea (which has been stickyfied) why should we acknowledge yours? Will we need a new UN for every leve of tech? Or just yours. Because you are special.

Why did you not say that to Fris instead of telegramming Hack?

Huh? The two things are unrelated. It was suggested that I TG each of them to draw their attention to this thread. I TGed Hack accordingly. I did not TG Fris because, by the time I got round to it, he had already posted in this thread, which rather strongly suggested he had become aware of it by himself.


And if you aren't going to acknowledge Fris' idea (which has been stickyfied) why should we acknowledge yours?

It was only stickyified yesterday (doubtless in response to this thread, and I would have appreciated some mention of it being made here, but never mind); I hadn't noticed it yet.

You *shouldn't* acknowledge mine, not if you don't want to. That's what I've been saying from the start. Mine is there if you want it. I do not acknowledge Fris' (despite finding it excellent) because

a) it is Future Tech, and
b) to make use of Gruenberg's very accurate argument, the location of the UN cannot be imposed without prior debate and consensus. (Yes, I'm aware that Fris is a mod, which means he can impose whatever he wants... Doesn't mean anyone has to acknowledge it in RPs. ;) )

To sum up and clarify:

Fris' proposal obviously does change things insofar as my suggestion is concerned. To deny that would be silly. But it also remains true that Fris' idea probably cannot apply to all nations, and it is certainly true that there has never been a thread in which it's been suggested to UN nations for comments, debate, approval or disapproval. The main difference between his and mine is that his is presented as what supposedly is, mine as what can be, if you want it to.

Anyway... What I'm going to do for now is let this thread develop to gain thoughts and comments from other UN members. If I see Fris' idea being supported by a consensus of UN members, I'll formally withdraw mine. As I said I would, from the very start, should that situation occur.

Likewise if there's a general consensus that my suggestion has been made redundant by Fris' suggestion.

So... Comments welcome, as always.

Frankly, to me it just seems strange to refrain from aknowledging Fris's stickied post because of tech level. Does the fact that Pasttechnationia is not nearly as technologically advanced as HotRodia mean that HotRodian technology must not exist? Of course not. It's quite normal that some nations are more advanced in certain areas and can let other nations use their advancements. :)

If you're like Ecopoeia and don't want to deal with the diversity of nations that are roleplayed because it screws with your roleplay, then that's fine. You probably shouldn't offer to host the UN Headquarters if that's the case. It's not a UN Headquarters if only past tech and modern tech nations are allowed. At that point it just becomes a "Hangout spot for past tech and modern tech nations that happen to be in the UN" headquarters. If that floats your roleplay boat then go for it, but I happen to think it makes no real sense. *shrug*

I would be inclined to agree with HotRodia: if tech level is so important, then you're never going to be able to accommodate half the nations in the UN. But, people use zombies and hovertanks and unicorns and Sith magic in their roleplays...if it's that important to you, then who am I to tread on your roleplay?

All right, I see the contradiction... HotRodia, Gruenberg, you make a good point.

I could re-iterate, I suppose, that my suggestion is there only for those interested in it, but at the same time participants would be considering (obviously) that it is the Headquarters of the whole UN, so... we reach an impasse.

I hereby withdraw my offer to host the United Nations. Thank you to all those who made comments, in this thread and the other one. :)

Fris, I'd still have appreciated more than you just pasting yours into here without any comment on mine, then stickying it without saying so here, but never mind.

I'll reverse-edit my nation's NSwiki article. This thread can be closed, I suppose. Again, thank you for your thoughts and suggestions.

Well thanks for bringing this up, Ariddia. It's something we needed to think through and work out, and you provided the impetus for us to do that.:)

You're welcome. :) Glad to have been of some help, at least.

Oh, Fris, if your version is going to be the "official" one, you might want to wikify it.

Ariddia: put it this way.

Fris' version works perfectly well, regardless of your tech level. Pretty much very civilisation has always had to work alongside others more advanced. So you've got your nice moderntech nation, and the gnomes have built a portal to the UN in it. You don't understand how it works, you're a bit edgy about using it, but as long as nothing goes wrong you'll cope.

At least, that's my way of dealing with the super-uber-ultra differences around here. That's how Ennish representatives can survive brushes in with dragons, Sarkarasetans, Tekaniou, elves and countless others, without anything like that existing within Enn.

But, until then, no-one has offered a location for the UN, so I'm doing so now.
Actually, we get offers to host all the time. I'd say one comes along every month at least. I didn't see any need to comment on it again, though it's now obvious that you hadn't seen those prior comments.

The 'portals' I invented have the same basis in reality as the fleet of helicopters that move your nation from region to region. If you can accept the latter, the former should be no problem.

Thanks, Enn. Food for thought.

Fris: No problem. (Though I don't accept the helicopters. ;) But that's because I don't need them. I never switch regions.)

Well, hosting in the Hack proper would be a bad idea. I've long mentioned my habit of firebombing UN offices (my explination for why my very friendly people always rank high in Rudest...), so hosting could be problematic.

The Gnomes are largely the physical embodiment of a joke, but I have had fun with them. Unfortunately, the Jolt/NS goofiness makes posting with them... difficult. With the bridge mostly working, I might be able to again, but...

Anyway, the physical location of the building doesn't much matter to me one way or the other. If I had more free time, I'd use the Gnomes more, but as you can see, that region is hardly a hotbed of activity.

We hate to bump an old (and already resolved) topic, but we just wanted to note that for purposes of roleplaying the location of the United Nations, we recognize Sovereign United Nations Territory. We are glad that Ariddia has elected to withdraw her claim to hosting the UN headquarters, because as we have no diplomatic relations with that nation, it would be very difficult for our diplomats to attain the visas necessary for Ariddian travel.

But why would we, as staunch sovereigntists, recognize the authority of cruel and heartless dictator plotting world domination? Well, the UN has either failed to respond, or rejected outright, our very generous and standing offer to house its headquarters in the basement of a crackhouse in Paradise City, so call it spite. In our view, association with crack addicts would be a step up for them sneaky, scummy UN Gnomes. ;)

As we play it, Fris's portal takes us straight to S.U.N.T.; and the portal in our nation, incidentally, is located in the very basement of the crackhouse we mentioned earlier. So it all works out.

I'll note that, since I was cited as someone who kind of ignores FT types, I choose to assume that my ambassadors have come to terms with the peculiarities of UN life; their memories simply get selectively wiped by the Gnomes whenever they return to Ecopoeia. Whatever works, anyway.

It's a strange and seemingly irreconcilable game in many ways, but there are usually ways of dealing with the quirks.

Interesting place, the Halls of the UN.

Originally Posted by HotRodia.
They are different people. Not everyone is a puppet of HotRodia, despite what some people may conclude.

From a bumper sticker on a limo in Libertaria.....

My other car is a puppet of Hotrodia.