NationStates Jolt Archive

Please support the following proposal:
Description: RECOGNIZES- The Intelligence Agencies of the world are used to learn information on:
a) other nations
b) nonstate actors
c) their own population
The information provided can be useful but the secrecy surrounding these agencies has a negative impaction on the world.

Thus let it be that intelligence agencies in the world must have no private dealings with their own population, nonstate actors, and othe nations.

All of these must be submitted to the U.N. which then must decide on a course.

The U.N.'s role will be to conduct investigations for the counries. For a certain action to be preformed in the U.N.:
a) a 2/3 majority must be reached
b) the country that initially asked for action must affirm the decision

This proposal still needs much support to be voted on.
Thank you

Please support the following proposal:

Link: http://www.nationstates.net/page=UN_proposal1/match=intelligence

Description: RECOGNIZES- The Intelligence Agencies of the world are used to learn information on:
a) other nations
b) nonstate actors
c) their own population
The information provided can be useful but the secrecy surrounding these agencies has a negative impaction on the world.

Thus let it be that intelligence agencies in the world must have no private dealings with their own population, nonstate actors, and othe nations.

All of these must be submitted to the U.N. which then must decide on a course.

So...we should submit all of our intelligence to the UN? Including anything we have gathered that would be advantageous to our industry or military? Including confidential details of our own military, or those of our enemies? The UN is a vast entity, and I don't believe it is coherent enough to cope with this level of sharing. In the words of a girl I once attempted to talk to, using a comparison of British and continental bowel function as the basis of conversation: "too much information".

The U.N.'s role will be to conduct investigations for the counries. For a certain action to be preformed in the U.N.:
a) a 2/3 majority must be reached
b) the country that initially asked for action must affirm the decision

? I don't understand. If you're asking for the UN to vote, then this is illegal under Game Mechanics. If not...then who's voting?

It's an interesting idea, and I certainly like the idea on one level. But the UN is not a military alliance, and I'm not sure all nations would agree to this. Have you thought of how this information would be stored/shared?

Damn. Just realized this already got laughed down in the Silly Proposals thread. Ignore my comments.

OH GOODY! :D

Please support the following proposal:Lets have a look! :D
Description: RECOGNIZES- The Intelligence Agencies of the world are used to learn information on: OOH Nice starting statement!
a) other nations Shhhh! Dont tell them!
b) nonstate actors What have Foreign thespians got to do with inteligence?
c) their own population Ah Yes, The Peasants are revolting etc
The information provided can be useful but the secrecy surrounding these agencies has a negative impaction on the world. How can you say Useful information has a negative Impaction?

Thus let it be that intelligence agencies in the world must have no private dealings with their own population, nonstate actors, and othe nations. So erm you mean VL's Intelegence Agency has to Contract it out to another nations Inteligence agency?:rolleyes:

All of these must be submitted to the U.N. which then must decide on a course. May I suggest the Veal. Its scrumptious.

The U.N.'s role will be to conduct investigations for the counries. For a certain action to be preformed in the U.N.:
a) a 2/3 majority must be reached
b) the country that initially asked for action must affirm the decision When the time is right The UN will say Call the Captain and the Captain will Know what to do.

This proposal still needs much support to be voted on. I have No Idea Why?
Thank youOh You are welcome. It was absolutely no problem. Anytime.:D

To the nation of "the People Down Under" I have some advice. This Advice extends to all Nations New to the Nation States United Nations.

1, If you are interested in writing a proposal, take the time to think out exactly what you mean. Jot it down on paper and arrange it in such a way so it is as clearly understood as it can be.
2, Use a word processor to type it up. That way you can use the built in Spell checker. Then copy and Paste your proposal to the forum.
3, Dont lose Heart. Especially when an experienced gamer, (Yours Truely) Derides your idea as silly. Most of Us Old timers are Very helpful when asked for help.
4, Take the time to read the Sticky thread. Rules for UN Proposals. Tiz most helpful.
5, Welcome to the NS Game. Remember it is a Game.
VL.

do you realize the hurt and pain caused by the secrecy a world moderator is needed

do you realize the hurt and pain caused by the secrecy a world moderator is needed

Unfortunately, the UN can't act as a world moderator. Any such organ would be unaccountable. As such, we'd be handing over our confidential information to unelected foreign nationals. Doesn't sound too great.

and thats how russia got away with some massive atrocities

Sorry, but we believe this proposal to be completely impractical. There is simply no way that intelligence could be effectively collected if some international body had to vote on every collection requirement.

Hurlbot Barfanger
Ambassador to the United Nations

fine crush the idealism in this game the hope:mp5: shooting right through the heart

and thats how russia got away with some massive atrocities

You're blaming the purges on the fact the NKVD didn't give the CIA their intelligence files? That's a bit of a stretch. The atrocities you allude to anyway would for the most part either be banned under UN law anyway, or remain under the sovereign jurisdiction of that member nation's government.

fine crush the idealism in this game the hope:mp5: shooting right through the heart

The problem with idealism is it doesn't always translate into effective policy. It can do: certain 'freedom/rights' resolutions for example. But, in general, international law has to be grounded in pragmatic considerations, not merely optimistic dreams.

terrible

terrible

What's terrible? If you don't respond to our criticisms constructively, how can we possibly help you with your proposal? I said there was some merit in your proposal while others simply laughed at it. If you don't try to work with those willing to help you, you're going to go nowhere fast.

a) a 2/3 majority must be reached


I am at least 97% sure, this is a Metagaming violation.

I don't see how Russia would have been stopped by this if implimented in real life. Continual reports of such bad things may have forced the alliance hands and a long war engaged, to the cost of everyone. I doubt that the goverments didn't know what was happening anyway in Russia but it didn't suit them to attack their ally.

If this got put to vote, there are perhaps too many people who may play tyrants or feel that IC, their security is at stake from this, I jsut don't think any version of this has much chance of getting passed

fine crush the idealism in this game the hope shooting right through the heart

idealism is nice but as already said, it isn't always possible to put it into practise. Example, Wang Mang when he took over from the Early Han or the ideals of Communism never translating into the real goverments. I much prefer to look at the practical side of things with moral issues a secondry matter unless it greatly infringes on my faith.

do you realize the hurt and pain caused by the secrecy a world moderator is needed
Ah, but if that were a possibility. A World Moderator would have to be entirely objective, and able to look after every nation's and citizen's interests at once. Otherwise it becomes a world dictatorship. In fact, it is the fear of the UN acting as a world dictatorship, abolishing my peoples' abilities to represent themselves, that leads me to consider myself a "national sovereigntist".

Intelligence Disarmament? As if we need to remove any more intelligence from the UN. We ain't exactly got an overall surplus of that to begin with. Oh, wait...different kind of intelligence. I see. My bad. Still a bad idea, though.

Minister of UN Affairs
Edward Jones

and thats how russia got away with some massive atrocities

As did the US. Your point?

The information provided can be useful but the secrecy surrounding these agencies has a negative impaction on the world.
The world may want to have its wisdom teeth pulled, then.

What I'm interested in is how exactly the UN is supposed to police networks of spies, anyway. Not to mention the akward situation when somebody requests the UN spy on one of its own member nations. Or, better yet, spy on the UN itself.

Or, better yet, spy on the UN itself.

Who would do an underhanded thing like that?

Minister of UN Affairs
Edward Jones

:cool:

Who would do an underhanded thing like that?

Minister of UN Affairs
Edward Jones

:cool:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v379/Kyronia/6e273c34.jpg
hmm, are these friends of yours TH? :D

I can't see why the UN should or would involve itself in member nations spy vs spy stuff. What nation would take its request to gather intelligence on another nation to a body that just by sheer size would be as leaky as a sieve. The target nation would know everything in next to no time.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v379/Kyronia/6e273c34.jpg
hmm, are these friends of yours TH? :D


I can neither confirm nor deny any knowledge of those agents or their activites. Now if you'll excuse me, I have an urgent phone call to make to the Agency of Security Affairs in the Federation.

Minister of UN Affairs
Edward Jones

I can neither confirm nor deny any knowledge of those agents or their activites. Now if you'll excuse me, I have an urgent phone call to make to the Agency of Security Affairs in the Federation.

Minister of UN Affairs
Edward Jones

Well, if you do find out who owns these two, please inform them that their spys were caught in the UNOG canteen trying to steal a portable minibar cleverly disguised as a diplomats briefcase from the Ferinalian represenative. As he values that briefcase more than his life, the two would be thieves are currently being punished by hanging suspended upside down over a pot of boiling brussel sprouts and cabbage in the UNOG kitchens :D.

Well, if you do find out who owns these two, please inform them that their spys were caught in the UNOG canteen trying to steal a portable minibar cleverly disguised as a diplomats briefcase from the Ferinalian represenative. As he values that briefcase more than his life, the two would be thieves are currently being punished by hanging suspended upside down over a pot of boiling brussel sprouts and cabbage in the UNOG kitchens :D.
Truely a fate worse than death!

Truely a fate worse than death!

But better than the torment of watching Soviet rockstars trying to be cool (http://media.vad1.com/temporary_url_20050704hnbdv/video-anthem-sovietunion-parody-ugolnikov_1991.mpg) after the fall of Communism

But better than the torment of watching Soviet rockstars trying to be cool (http://media.vad1.com/temporary_url_20050704hnbdv/video-anthem-sovietunion-parody-ugolnikov_1991.mpg) after the fall of Communism
True..... Very True.:D