NationStates Jolt Archive

IT Education Act has replaced Computers for School Children. IT Education Act has just reached quorom and I hope all those who support Computers for School Children will vote for IT Education Act.

Caradune

Here is the proposition text:

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IT Education Initiative

The United Nations,

-A- CONCERNED by the number of children who do not have basic information technology education,

-B- CONVINCED that the mastering of Information Technology is essential in the education of every child worldwide and for his/her own future

-C- FULLY AWARE of the difference of technology level between member nations

-D- SEEKING to minimize the cost of the following clauses

-E- FULLY AWARE of the availability of cheap, basic and low power-consumption computers designed by non-profit organisations


-1- STRONGLY URGES all nations to secure that each child, aged at least 12, receive some information technology education adapted to the national technology level. This can be integrated into National Education programs,

-2- ENCOURAGES STRONGLY all nations to secure for every child, aged at least 12, some access in school to information technology school equipment with educational software and internet access,

-3- SUPPORTS operations which provide children, personal computers with internet access and educational software, or more powerful high-tech educational tool, when the cost for the Nations will not be significant. Computers, internet access or others tools could be bought or rented at a very modest price for children not able to afford them

-4- RECCOMENDS all nations to be prudent by ensuring that these actions don’t undermine or reduce nutritional, health or clothing efforts

-5- ENCOURAGES all Nations to try to limit the cost induced by this resolution, by different means such as:

-5.1- providing cheap, basic and low power-consumption computers designed by non-profit organisation as those that already exist

-5.2- Running the computers mentioned in this resolution with needed open-source software, freeware or software graciously paid or discounted by companies, as a sponsoring operation for them or by non-profit organisation

-5.3- Proposing some non-profit organisation or some companies to graciously offer some computers, internet access and technical support, as a sponsoring operation for them which can prove more efficient than a TV ad campaign

-6- ENCOURAGES all developed Nations to help developing Nations to implement this program, by different means such as:

-6.1- Sharing technologies with nations who don't have yet access to them

-6.2- Giving access to these nations to a low rate loan/bonds system, which will be repaid in middle term by the growth of the amount of taxes collected due to the growth of information technology economic sector
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link to the former forum thread: http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=448214

And it still doesn't actually do anything. So pretty mucho n that basis I am gonna have to vote against it.

And it still doesn't actually do anything. So pretty mucho n that basis I am gonna have to vote against it.

The people of Cluichstan will not vote against this, because it doesn't really do anything but state principles. However, we will not be voting for it either, for the very same reason.

I think I'm going to go against, now. Before, I was going to abstain, but now I just see it as a waste of the UN's time.

I think I'm going to go against, now. Before, I was going to abstain, but now I just see it as a waste of the UN's time.

Oh, it most certainly is. However, keep in mind, that it is already going to hit the floor, and should it pass, no stronger resolution (i.e., one with mandates and such) on this particular subject can be introduced.

Oh, it most certainly is. However, keep in mind, that it is already going to hit the floor, and should it pass, no stronger resolution (i.e., one with mandates and such) on this particular subject can be introduced.

Ah, interesting. I suppose a bump-up could be tried...but it'd be hard. Yes, I think I'll sit out.

I'm with His Excellency, the representative for Cluichstan. A stronger resolution would cause major problems to our country, as our computers take up an entire room and the only thing they can do is make chocolate browny recipe's (which is also top secret). A Mandating resolution would cripple our economy, as we would need to build huge schools with one room per student, and compromise our national security. We don't want our kids knowing the recipe for the brownies that our generals eat...

Exactly (although I'm not sure about that brownies bit). I think we can set our national-sovereignty principles aside here in order to avoid a possibly even worse encroachment by a later proposal. Even though this proposal has no teeth whatsoever, you know that certain groups will see it and say, "What a splendid idea!" Even though the UN really has no business addressing this, I'm wagering it will pass by a landslide, and we will effectively be saved from a possible proposal down the road that might actually have some teeth that would also certainly pass, thanks to our oh-so-well-intentioned delegates.

Indeed. But don't mock our brownies. Those brownies meant our generals (specifically Field Marshall Brian "Pointy" Blatherstock) were willing to get out of bed in the morning during the series of covert missions performed by force ten during the Second Fairly Dull and Highly Localised War

I wouldn't dare mock the brownies.

this idea although noble and well meant is just more NSUN micro management.

yes, education is one of those things that governments and the people of a nation know best about.

i will be sugesting to my region that we vote against this.

this idea although noble and well meant is just more NSUN micro management.

yes, education is one of those things that governments and the people of a nation know best about.
I disagree. I feel it'd be UN micromanagement if the proposal stated that "All nations must buy computers for every child". But it doesn't say that. It merely injects some of the UN, international recognition in nations and urges them to respond to the situation of newer technologies in schools--leaving them the flexibility to formulate their own education solutions, even disagree with the importance of computers in classrooms.

On behalf of The Toatlly Blissed-out State of Ateelatay:
We will be voting against this resolution. We would abstain because it is basically a statement with no real effect, but we disagree with the premise of part B (books work quite well without the need for expensive equipment) and we feel that, in general, the UN has no business deciding the structure of education in any nation.

In addition, nations that will decide to follow the recommendations will likely only be those that can afford them and they probably already have the technology in place. We feel that nations do not need to be informed of the cost saving measures, as they are relatively well known. The technology sharing aspect of the proposal is the only part we find any merit in and we feel that it is not significant enough to outweigh the negatives.
Thank you.

This Proposal had better be 'Mild'...

On behalf of The Toatlly Blissed-out State of Ateelatay:
We will be voting against this resolution. We would abstain because it is basically a statement with no real effect, but we disagree with the premise of part B (books work quite well without the need for expensive equipment) and we feel that, in general, the UN has no business deciding the structure of education in any nation.

In addition, nations that will decide to follow the recommendations will likely only be those that can afford them and they probably already have the technology in place.
*snip*

Wow...if only you'd applied these very same arguments to the FFRA, replacing "education" economic development, of course...

This Proposal had better be 'Mild'...

http://img374.imageshack.us/img374/904/significant7sc.png

Ah...hmmm...okay..."significant" it apparently is

Ah...hmmm...okay..."significant" it apparently is

I notice the drafts didn't contain the category or strength, or at least not at first glance. Pity.

The only significant thing about this proposal is it significantly does and means absolutly nothing. Yet again a proposal/resolution is going to kiss us on the hand and ask pretty please but other than that, will just be a waste of space.

I know other resolutions passed recently have done the same, PCs tax resolution for one. It was written simply to stop any future proposals affecting a nations tax rate. While I don't agree with that, many did, so it at least has a purpose. Dipolmatic immunity is important for international relations and co-operation, so again while it mandated nothing, it has an important purpose.

I can't see any purpose to this one except to ask nations nicely to allow kiddies to learn to use computers. Surely nations with the technology are already doing that, and those that don't can't. Can someone please tell me why this resolution is necessary because I can't see any reason for it.

I'll be voting against if it gets to vote and will be strongly pushing the 3 delegates I have some clout with/over to do the same.

I know other resolutions passed recently have done the same, PCs tax resolution for one. It was written simply to stop any future proposals affecting a nations tax rate.

And because of that tax resolution, there is now a statue of the delegate from Powerhungry Chipmunks in the center of Cluichabad.

Well, I think this is in a different league to RiT and DI. The latter was a definition resolution, and the only problem I have with that is that the original resolution required such clarification; the former was, for all that some people whined 'it doesn't do anything', actually fairly strong in banning a fair amount of intervention.

This is simply a piddling 'wouldn't it be nice', presumably toned down into its current impotency precisely so we'd have nothing to argue against. Well, I'll be fucked if I'm taking a Significant stats hit and just bend over for it; I shall now be arguing against.

And because of that tax resolution, there is now a statue of the delegate from Powerhungry Chipmunks in the center of Cluichabad.

We print his picture on the nations dart boards :D.

We print his picture on the nations dart boards :D.
I wouldn't be suprised if there isn't nations putting my picture on their nukes.:D

Bob Flibble
UN Representative

This is simply a piddling 'wouldn't it be nice', presumably toned down into its current impotency precisely so we'd have nothing to argue against. Well, I'll be fucked if I'm taking a Significant stats hit and just bend over for it; I shall now be arguing against.
The original resolution had teeth:
Computers for School Children
-A- SHOCKED by the amount of children worldwide who do not have basic access to a computer

-B- CONVINCED that the mastering of Information Technology is essential in the education of every child worldwide and for his/her own future

-1- MANDATES all nations to provide each child, aged more than 12, Information Technology education; which can be integrated into National Education programs.

-2- STRONGLY URGES all Nations to secure that every child, aged more than 12, has a computer for himself with internet access and educational software. Computers and internet access should be bought or rented at a very modest price for children not able to afford them.

-3- ENCOURAGES all Nations to try to limit the cost induced by paragraph [2], by:

-3.1- Running the computers mentioned in [2] with open-source software, freeware or software graciously paid or discounted by companies, as a sponsoring operation for them

-3.2- Proposing some companies to graciously offer some computers, internet access and technical support, as a sponsoring operation for them which can prove more efficient than a TV ad campaign

-4- ENCOURAGES all developed Nations to help developing Nations to implement this program, by:

-4.1- Sharing technologies with nations that are developmentally and financially ready to provide an infrastructure and education system that will be appropriate to the technology.

-4.2- Giving access to these nations to a low rate loan/bonds system, which will be repaid in middle term by the growth of the amount of taxes collected due to the growth of information technology economic sector

-5- MANDATES that manufacturers must provide schools with a 24/7 technical support hotline in case a computer is broken or beyond repair. In the event of a computer malfunction, the computer will be sent back to the manufacturers for replacement or repair.
They kept watering it down, but apparently forgot to change the strength to "mild". For a resolution that doesn't require any actions, this is going to have a fairly large negative economic impact.

Deleted; no warning added.

There is no world where something like this would be "signifigant". It does absolutely nothing aside from recommending and urging. If this had passed, a nation could do absolutely nothing and not be in violation.

This Proposal had better be 'Mild'...

Ok

Wow...if only you'd applied these very same arguments to the FFRA, replacing "education" economic development, of course...

I understand your point of view, but, with issues of the environment, especially ones dealing with pollution that can drift in the air and water, I tend to believe that the UN is the only body that can effectively and impartially deal with the issue. With issues of education, not so much. These, I believe, are mostly naitonal issues. When it is taken into consideration that the form of education is intrinsic with the political and social mores, the idea of the UN interferring with this becomes more problematic. I have never voted in favor of an educaiton resolution and there are few that I would vote in favor of.

Just in case anyone is interested where I generally stand on the sovereignty issue here's a short list of how I would likely vote:

Education- almost always feel this is beyond the acceptable bounds of the UN

Environmental- usually feel this is within the bounds of the UN, as long as it is effective and deals with international environmental issues.

Social Justice/Human Rights- really depends on the resolution, if it may interfere with free practice of cultural values- usually feel it is outside of UN jurisdiction, if for basic human rights- usually feel it is within UN juruisdiction.

International trade- always feel it is within UN jurisdiction unless its a trivial issue such as DVD Region Removal.

Global commons such as international waters, lands, space, etc.- usually feel it is within UN jurisdiction.

Weapons of Mass Destruction/ Rules of War- Always feel it's within UN jurisdiciton.

Drug Laws- almost never feel it's within Un jurisdiction.

Moral Decency/Political Stability- never feel it's within UN jurisdiction.

Gun Control- never feel it's within UN jurisdiction, unless it is banning a gun that is particularily dangerous to the international community.

Sorry for getting off on a tangent, but the resolution was deleted anyway, so oh well.

Deleted; no warning added.

There is no world where something like this would be "signifigant". It does absolutely nothing aside from recommending and urging. If this had passed, a nation could do absolutely nothing and not be in violation.

...I didn't know you could do that. I suppose the admins have been around, though. Thank you.

...I didn't know you could do that. I suppose the admins have been around, though. Thank you.Do what?

The only protection that Proposals in queue have is that against auto-deleting with time. I can delete them just like any other; it's only when they hit the floor that they're immune.

Do what?

The only protection that Proposals in queue have is that against auto-deleting with time. I can delete them just like any other; it's only when they hit the floor that they're immune.
It's pretty hard for us, but the decision is logical, we forgot to take care about the strength.;)

by the way, i was wondering, when a proposal reach the floor, does the author can ask mods or admin to delete it?

It's pretty hard for us, but the decision is logical, we forgot to take care about the strength.I figured as much; largely why I didn't issue a warning or anything.

by the way, i was wondering, when a proposal reach the floor, does the author can ask mods or admin to delete it?I believe it is possible for an Admin to delete it (as they can do, well, pretty much anything), but they are loath to do so. I specifically asked when Law of the Sea was being voted on, and was told it wouldn't be deleted. I'm pretty sure that unless it's something like "KILL ALL TEH JEWZ!" (which should never get that far anyway), the Admins will leave it be.

Oh, don't say that. We'll have a "KILL ALL TEH JEWS" proposal in no time now.

Caradune resubmitted the proposal today

We hope you will consider approving it, if you like it:

http://www.nationstates.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/page=UN_proposal1/match=it%20education

Caradune resubmitted the proposal today

We hope you will consider approving it, if you like it:

http://www.nationstates.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/page=UN_proposal1/match=it%20education

He has 91 endorsements? That's some organized campaigning. Bugger.

He has 91 endorsements? That's some organized campaigning. Bugger.

Caradune and i have sent a TG to the 226 delegate who approved it last week

Quorum reached :)

Damn.

Quorum reached :)
*bangs drums and blows whistles*

Congratulations!

*bangs drums and blows whistles*

Congratulations!

thanks

This should really boost our typewriter industry!

Way to go!

This should really boost our typewriter industry!

Way to go!

If i leave Cobdenia 2005 with a typewriter, bought for few bucks
Then goes to Cobdenia 1930 with it
Then comes back to Cobdenia 2005 always with it, Will i get the last Sony VAIO?

Yes, probably. Assuming it was a top of the range typewriter from 1930.

This is good news! Seeing as my nation speclizes(dont make fun of my typos)in the Information Technology sector and that my people are very well educated in the use of computers but are sadden at the fact that most nations i see have amounts of people that just do manual labor and doesnt know how to use a computer. Now due to this,most U.N nations* will finally have more education about all this Information Technology!**

*I said MOST because some nations will deny this to their citizens

**Eh i sometimes just babble about stuff that doesnt make sense,so if you see me say stuff like this,ingore me ;)

I would really like to thank love and esterel for helping me with the proposal. I couldn't have done it without him/her. Love and esterel helped me rewrite it and telegramed many of the U.N. delegates. Love and esterel I would like to give a special thanks to you!!!

Caradune:) :D

I would really like to thank love and esterel for helping me with the proposal. I couldn't have done it without him/her. Love and esterel helped me rewrite it and telegramed many of the U.N. delegates. Love and esterel I would like to give a special thanks to you!!!

Caradune:) :D

That's sweet. But you've only reached quorum and, though I have no doubt this will pass, it hasn't done so yet.

I voted against this issue, in the nation of republisheepia all schools are privately owned and as such are in control of their own cirriculum save for some core requirements that they need to meet. As well, IT education is insufficient, I myself have 3 IT certifications and none of them taught me anything I had yet to learn. If you want to get into to teaching children technology what you need to do is teach them about basic functions of all operating systems and teach them about the world of open source. As well, the fact is that there aren't non-profit organistations making low-power machines. There are many corporations making economical machines but they're certainly not non-profit and certainly can't offer the prices affordable by the smaller countries.

Not to mention the fact that just like anything related to the public schools and the public schools themselves, it's a socialist concept. Not everyone needs to use computers in their life, and as such it's unjust that the taxpayers of Republisheepia should pay for people to get an education that they're not going to be using. In my nation's free market economy you get what you pay for and get paid for what you do, in no circumstance will someone who is not working will enjoy a benefit from the government supplied by the tax payers and this is no different.

I must say that I have voted against this resolution on behalf of my nation.
We believe that children are not taught by computers. Children are taught by teachers in the classrooms, providing students with a human presence, giving, warmth, praise, etc. Text books, homework, pencils, pens, tests on paper, presentations, etc. are what teach children. Parents at home who help their children with their homework, helping their children learn to read. All the abouve is what teaches children.

Computers, and computers with internet acces in the school and classrooms are not what teaches children. They are just an excuse to keep the children from learning real classroom lessons. They are just another device designed to overtake a students attention from the classroom and immerse them into the internet, online games, chat rooms, etc. Rotting their brains, taking them away from an education.

Computers can not teach children what is really important. Respect, in that I mean respect for all lliving persons, respect for the law, respect for the old people, respect for the crippled, respect for the military and the veterens, respect for education, for their country, and respect for themselves. Computers cannot teach children about, the law, religion, honor, the history of their nation, love, and others.

Children need a human presence to teach them. They need praise and discipline. Computers cannot provide that.