NationStates Jolt Archive

Attention all UN delegates. I, Oatmeal Raisin Cookies, have made my first proposal :D . Go to list all proposals and then find, "The Fine Act."

Now I know these fine are pretty strict, but look at it this way. If you guys do propose it, it will lower crime. If it doesn't lower crime, at least it will help economic welfare and decrease tax rates, at least.

The Fine Act

A resolution to improve worldwide human and civil rights.


Category: Human Rights


Strength: Significant


Proposed by: Oatmeal Raisin Cookies

Description: This act increases fines for many of the regular fines and as well as new ones:

Littering will be now have a $250 fine.

Drinking and Driving will result in a $4,000 fine and up to 120 days of imprisonment.

Parking in a no-parking zone is now worth up to a $500 fine, depending on the area of the parked car.

Going 5 mph over the speed limit in an regulated area is worth a $750 fine and up to 10 days of imprisonment or 15 days of imprisonment in a residental area.

Broken taillights is now worth a $200 fine.

Loitering in a no-loitering zone is worth a $100-$150 fine.

Parking in a handicapped zone without proof of id that you are handicapped will result in a $500 fine and up to 5 days of imprisonment.

Illegal car parts such as underglow neon and tinted windshields will no longer have fine and are now considered legal.

Because of the strict fines, the income tax rate has now decreased 35%.
It is considered courteous to post the text.

These look like domestic issues. Should the UN really be involved in this?

this is something a nations courts deal with and the vast majority of nations would shoot this down.

still posting this proposal may give other nations ideas they can use themselves.

In addition to the concerns mentioned by the Yeldan delegation, I would like to note that having set fines such as those in a UN resolution is a waste of time. Most nations' currencies are not USD and this will be meaningless for them. Even if they do use USD, inflation or deflation could make the fines specified either unreasonably high or unreasonably low.

Minister of UN Affairs
Edward Jones

OOC:

Because of the strict fines, the income tax rate has now decreased 35%.

That makes it illegal under the UN proposal rules because of a game mechanics violation.

These look like domestic issues. Should the UN really be involved in this?


One word: no.

Description: This act increases fines for many of the regular fines and as well as new ones:


Ok.... Let's just base this on someone who earns $1500 a year.


Littering will be now have a $250 fine.


1/6 of their salary gone cause they accidentally droped a sweet wrapper.


Drinking and Driving will result in a $4,000 fine and up to 120 days of imprisonment.


I admit, this is less likely to be by accident, but still - it's not beyond reason.
So their salary is gone for over two years, during which time their kids don't eat, they can't pay their rent....

Not a good idea :}


Parking in a no-parking zone is now worth up to a $500 fine, depending on the area of the parked car.


1/3 of their salary gone because they needed to park somewhere urgently. And what do you mean by "the area of their car"?


Going 5 mph over the speed limit in an regulated area is worth a $750 fine and up to 10 days of imprisonment or 15 days of imprisonment in a residental area.


So for 5mph extra you are going to fine someone half their salary?


Broken taillights is now worth a $200 fine.



Just over 10% gone because someone broke their taillight and they didn't notice until they were pulled over. Or they were driving and a stone shattered it and they didn't notice.


Loitering in a no-loitering zone is worth a $100-$150 fine.


"Loitering"?


Parking in a handicapped zone without proof of id that you are handicapped will result in a $500 fine and up to 5 days of imprisonment.


Again - far to steep a punishment for something that is more or less trivial in comparrison to some things. 1/3 of their salary.


Illegal car parts such as underglow neon and tinted windshields will no longer have fine and are now considered legal.


Why? Cause you want them on your car?


Because of the strict fines, the income tax rate has now decreased 35%.


You can not set a national tax rate in a resolution. I am pretty sure it is illegal, and even if it isn't, it would be a truly bad idea.


All in all this is really not a good idea. Even if it were in the power of the UN (Which some might argue it is) it should be proportional, not fixed, and it should be in the currency of each nation, not in the currency of one nation.

So I can't support it.

The people of Cluichstan wonder why anyone is bothering to argue against this proposal when it clearly deals with purely domestic issues.

Well, I would like to first say that:

1.) I'm sorry about the income tax rate. And this applies to everyone's currency. And i know that while it can be $1 in one country, it can be 60 cents or $5 in another.

2.) I don't have a car. I'm not even 18 yet :gundge: (darn permit and licenses).

3.) I doubt most of our countries have $1500 per year salary or lower :rolleyes: .

4.) Remember people, this is my first proposal. I will try to submit better proposals if you don't agree on these strict fines. I didn't you say had to vote for it. I was just at least hoping you would.

The people of Cluichstan wonder why anyone is bothering to argue against this proposal when it clearly deals with purely domestic issues.

I submit that the distinction between domestic and international issues is a meaningless one without supporting evidence. I feel that, as sovereigntists, is it our job to show that disrespecting the line between domestic and international issues results in impracticality and impropriety.

Minister of UN Affairs
Edward Jones

Well, I would like to first say that:

1.) I'm sorry about the income tax rate. And this applies to everyone's currency. And i know that while it can be $1 in one country, it can be 60 cents or $5 in another.

2.) I don't have a car. I'm not even 18 yet :gundge: (darn permit and licenses).

3.) I doubt most of our countries have $1500 per year salary or lower :rolleyes: .

4.) Remember people, this is my first proposal. I will try to submit better proposals if you don't agree on these strict fines. I didn't you say had to vote for it. I was just at least hoping you would.

OOC: Most of the In-Character stuff isn't personal. Keep that in mind. :)

And keep trying to come up with good proposal ideas. I always like to see innovative proposal writers who can take criticism and know when to hold 'em and when to fold 'em. :)

Now to respond...

1. I'm glad that you understand there are differences in the value of money in different nations, and I would hope that would show that knowledge in your proposal.

3. The question isn't whether most countries have a $1500 average salary, but that you'll be completely screwing over the people in those countries that do have that salary.

4.) Remember people, this is my first proposal. I will try to submit better proposals if you don't agree on these strict fines. I didn't you say had to vote for it. I was just at least hoping you would.
Don't get discouraged. The only thing I see here that might be of international concern is the part that addresses drunk driving. You won't ever be able to implement an international schedule for fines. What you might be able to do though is have a resolution which mandates that all UN nations recognize DWI convictions and drivers license suspensions which occur in other UN nations. Prevent citizens of one nation from going to another nation to get a fraudulent DL after theirs has been suspended, something like that.

Mr. Jones makes an excellent point. Allow me to go all Forgottenlands on this.

Littering will be now have a $250 fine.

Littering? Littering?!? Of all the terrible things that go on in this world, this proposal seeks to address...littering?!? Now, oil spills that could pollute and seriously damage international waters and global ecosystems, sure, but this proposal wants the UN to address the "horror" of someone tossing a gum wrapper on the sidewalk?

Drinking and Driving will result in a $4,000 fine and up to 120 days of imprisonment.

Sure, drinking and driving is bad. But, again, is this an international issue?

Parking in a no-parking zone is now worth up to a $500 fine, depending on the area of the parked car.

Parking fines? This is even worse than the clause on littering.

Going 5 mph over the speed limit in an regulated area is worth a $750 fine and up to 10 days of imprisonment or 15 days of imprisonment in a residental area.

Speeding, addressed by the UN? Okay, maybe if you want to deal solely with how fast someone can cross an international border. Otherwise, it is of no concern to an international body.

Broken taillights is now worth a $200 fine.

I wouldn't have thought it possible as I read through this proposal, but this is even more ludicrous than the clauses on littering and parking fines.

Loitering in a no-loitering zone is worth a $100-$150 fine.

Indeed, the UN should be very concerned about people standing on a streetcorner doing nothing.

Parking in a handicapped zone without proof of id that you are handicapped will result in a $500 fine and up to 5 days of imprisonment.

Back to parking again, eh?

Illegal car parts such as underglow neon and tinted windshields will no longer have fine and are now considered legal.

Where are these illegal? Surely, the UN has never micromanaged to the point of banning these things, nor should it and nor should it mandate their legality.

Because of the strict fines, the income tax rate has now decreased 35%.

Interesting magic wand. "Poof! Income taxes are decreased!"

First of all, as an international body, the UN has no business meddling with national tax policy. Would it be acceptable for a UN resolution to mandate a 90% income tax rate? Of course not. Then why should one decide that they be cut by 35%? Furthermore, randomly assigning a resulting decrease in the income tax rate assumes that all of the tax receipts by national governments are the same, which they are clearly not. Different nations tax their citizens differently. This proposal assumes all nations to be exactly the same when it comes to tax policy, population, and economy. Finally, some nations have no income tax at all (Cluichstan, for instance), so what does this resolution do for those nations, since a 35% decrease of zero is zero? Nothing.

The people of Cluichstan would rather see the Inflatable Gandalf Act implemented.

Thanks for the replies, people. Although I have to say, a few of your replies were (I have to say this) a little harsh, it will at least show me how to make a much better proposal.

Thanks for the replies, people. Although I have to say, a few of your replies were (I have to say this) a little harsh, it will at least show me how to make a much better proposal.

OOC: As was said before, don't take any of this in-character stuff personally. We're really not the a-holes we sometimes seem to be. ;)

Yep another one dealing with National Issues and not of Un concern. How ever seen as it is your first perhaps this experience will assist you in further attempts and the necessity of researching your ideas. An example in in the case where you list actual fines for whatever but put an actual figure.

I give you an example of currencies and how they are compared by NS economy.

The Realm of Hibernia Exchange Rates
Nation......Currency.........$1 to currency...... currency to $1
Real Freedonia: Freedonian dollar 0.5111 1.9567
Fallwellia: Hibernian Dollar 0.5684 1.7594
Venerable libertarians: Hibernian Dollar 0.5832 1.7148
Central-Eastern NJ: 50 cent 0.7042 1.4201
Fyrewerks: cracker 1.0108 0.9893
Bobs Used Nations: trade of used Nations 1.3017 0.7682
Da Mongoose: dollar 2.0111 0.4972
The Okapi: peso 2.6670 0.3750
Templar Crusaders: Hibernal Dollar 2.7947 0.3578
Vesuvious: Hibernian Dollar 2.8325 0.3530
Jades Phoenix: jasmine 4.5036 0.2220
UberPenguinLand: Hibernian Dollar 7.0076 0.1427
Edmundiar: hiber 227.7296 0.0044


As you can clearly see the nation of Real Freedonia would see a $1500 fine as a mere Pittance where the nation of Edmundiar would have to charge the colossal amount of $H 341594.40 to the beleaguered Edmundiarian citizen. Fixed fines in an international context as you can plainly see would be unjust and just further goes to illustrate how this is a matter for each Nation rather than the Union to which it is a member.
Dont be discouraged. Rome or Libertaria for that matter was not built in a day.
VL.

The people of Cluichstan saw that argument against this as well, but their representative isn't enough of a stat geek (yet) to have addressed it properly.

The people of Cluichstan saw that argument against this as well, but their representative isn't enough of a stat geek (yet) to have addressed it properly.
It will happen! I was once a happy go lucky sometimes deadly type. But as a superior Gamer more is expected from me.:D

Just another thing: if you really want this to go to the UN, change the mph to km/h. We're metric around here.