NationStates Jolt Archive

Mister Secretary, Honorable Representatives, Esteemed Leaders of Nations, Gallant Nations, friends!

The Voievodat of Ultrasilvania has proposed a new act, furthering democracy, but also free trade, exchanges of all natures, easy cooperation of nations in cases of danger or peace. It is called the "Official Language of the World" Act, and will either succeed in actually setting one such language, or at least will make all nations aware of the possibility of having it.

Like in many of the Sci-Fi movies and books in our culture, we see that people from all over one world speak a common language; while I agree that using such a reason is childish, I believe, and so a large number of our people, that since humanity will eventually conquer the Space, and so will find itself in a Universe of alien beings, being united is essential. A single language is the source of that. A single tradition is the source of that. Free communication between people is the source of that. Locally, we can still have our own dialect - but at school, in the media, in the international scene, all we shall speak a common language.

The language might be an artificial one; and we are aware of the many unsuccessful attempts. The language might be one that one of us is using right now; and we are aware that many will object to using an enemy's language as their own. However, in view of the common good, such a measure must be taken. We need Earth's official language!

Thank you!

(Voievod Iancu of Ultrasilvania retires from the microphone)

OOC: Fun. One of those rare issues that my nation and I differ on. Unfortunately, I have to stick with my nation, since this is NationStates after all. This is also influenced by the fact that Xanthal is a future nation, but oh well.

IC:
The Socialist Republic does not believe that it is feasible to require all residents of a planet to learn a single language when there is no uniting planetary government. In the event of passage, even if all United Nations members manage to comply, which I personally doubt very much will be the case, non-U.N. entities compose more than half of Earth's total population. While homogenizing language is a worthy goal, we believe that it cannot be achieved where there is no oversight agency with the ability and willingness to enforce a switch. In the case of Earth, there is no such agency. Even the United Nations would be unable to enforce such a doctrine. For that reason coupled with the staggering costs such a doomed effort will entail, the Alphini have voted against approving the Official Language of the World proposal.

Yătzĭl Ämsi
First Alphin of the Socialist Republic of Xanthal

The Community of Stealthmunchkania consider that this smacks of instituting Newspeak. Different languages can convey concepts differently, and limiting citizens' potential for expression will probably also lead to limiting their potential for thought.

(Ultrasilvanian ambassador approaches the microphone)

Mister Secretary, esteemed colleagues.

I would like to counter some of the remarks made earlier by pointing out two issues:

1) It is true that most of our world does not accept the UN as their, allow me to use this term, "counsellor", and thereby will not consider using the world's official language; however, let me remind you of the old Roman empire, whose influence went far beyond its borders, and whose latin language became de facto the language of the known world. Economical and also socio-political factors, not the UN, will convince nations outside the UN to start using it. We only need to start the process.

2) A unique world language does not imply a poor language; this language can be as rich, and meaningful as the richest language in the world today (for instance, this new language can have all the words the Eskimo people use for the many different types of snow). Of course, there are some practicality issues, but in the end, the local "slang" can be more varied than the "literary" version used officially; this already happens today.

Please consider these, wise colleagues and friends.

Thank you.

(Ultrasilvanian ambassador retires from the microphone)

The People's republic of Laxidasia suggests that all nations hold hands and communicate through the universal language of love.

(Starts singing the Internationale)

Our Government agrees that there should be a "universal" language, which could be a second language tought at schools. However, it may be hard to universally co-ordinate it. I will keep track of any new responses to this idea.

Official Language of the World only means that all official UN and UN nation act's and legislation will be done in only one language.

A good example of this is ancient China. Ancient China had dozens of different languages. This made administration of the ancient China practically impossible.
The emperor at the time declared only One language is to be used for official purposes. This made trade at the time explode. People were able to communicate to each other, therefore people could do business.

That language is called Mandarin, in fact that is the word for high goverment official also.

There was hundreds of international incidents and started wars because of simple miss-communication.

people can still use other languages, just that only for offical business only one language is used.

This is a great idea. I will support this measure 100% if it is well written.

Official Language of the World only means that all official UN and UN nation act's and legislation will be done in only one language.


We already have that - I believe one of the rules is that proposals be in English. This is not, however, what the proposer intends. The original post says "at school, in the media, in the international scene, all we shall speak a common language."
Not only is this draconian, unneccessary and probably unenforcable, but it *will* lead to a limitation of possible ideas. A language is not just its vocabulary, but also its structure. For example as I understand it in Chinese one doesn't use subject-predicate sentences as in English, so non-Aristotelean logical systems are easier to speak about in that language.
Language is not just, or even primarily, a tool. It is also a means of expression, of creation. Should we have a universal standard way to say "I love you"? Should we say that to aid understanding all art should be representational, and all created using the same thickness pencil?
Not only this, but within a few generations all the world's poetry, art, song and so on would be inaccessible to most. Translations can never convey the subtleties of works in the original language.
This proposal is essentially an attempt to cut the vast majority off from their history and culture. We should celebrate our differences, not attempt to iron them all out into monocultural Disneyfied "it's a small world after all" plasticity.

The Community of Stealthmunchkania consider that this smacks of instituting Newspeak.


Or Esperanto. And we all know how well that idea worked out...

We already have that - I believe one of the rules is that proposals be in English. This is not, however, what the proposer intends. The original post says "at school, in the media, in the international scene, all we shall speak a common language."
Not only is this draconian, unneccessary and probably unenforcable, but it *will* lead to a limitation of possible ideas. A language is not just its vocabulary, but also its structure. For example as I understand it in Chinese one doesn't use subject-predicate sentences as in English, so non-Aristotelean logical systems are easier to speak about in that language.
Language is not just, or even primarily, a tool. It is also a means of expression, of creation. Should we have a universal standard way to say "I love you"? Should we say that to aid understanding all art should be representational, and all created using the same thickness pencil?
Not only this, but within a few generations all the world's poetry, art, song and so on would be inaccessible to most. Translations can never convey the subtleties of works in the original language.
This proposal is essentially an attempt to cut the vast majority off from their history and culture. We should celebrate our differences, not attempt to iron them all out into monocultural Disneyfied "it's a small world after all" plasticity.

Moreover, this might be illegal as it may conflict with the resolution regarding the protection of indigenous peoples. By forcing indigenous peoples to speak a non-indigenous language, this proposal directly conflicts with article 9 of that resolution "9 Indigenous peoples have the right to revitalize, use & develop histories, languages, traditions, philosophies, writing systems & literatures, to designate and retain their own names for places & persons"

The Community of Stealthmunchkania consider that this smacks of instituting Newspeak. Different languages can convey concepts differently, and limiting citizens' potential for expression will probably also lead to limiting their potential for thought.
Exactly!

If we look at just the basic tenets of the Whorf Theory, it is primarily proposed that languages influence thought process, and, thus, outlook on the world. This is more than just idomatic differences (In the US, people "run for office", whereas other English-speakers would "stand for election", which, in fact, results in different attittudes on campaigns for election), there is a some research that indicates that either the sound palette for a language can influence how one views topics (such as the sound palette for Japanese, which merges "l" and "r"). The way verbs conjugate is also intriguing in how it can effect thought. For some languages time is very important, creating a strong temporal awareness (there may be a different tense for "He's about to dance" and "He's going to dance at some point in the future"). In others, time plays a relatively minor role, and when something happened, or will happen isn't strongly emphasized.

Anyway, language diversity effects, to a degree, diversity in viewpoint. Having one language with which all people understand the world places a lot of power for determining what people think in the hands of those that design the language. I really don't like this idea. In fact, I'm interested in writing legislation, in the future, to the opposite end, to preserve languages and literature.

I believe the technical problems are too big to tackle for the United Nations. Our first concern would be the states that are not part of the UN, this will make it impossible for a International Language (here after used in the acronym: IL) to become truely international. Another huge problem lies in the "what a language is."

It is not your grammarbook
It is not what you hear on the radio.
It is not what is written down.

We believe that Language is as much part of the culture of a country as its art, landmarks and history. Taking away language from the people, will most surely lead to big protests, we do not want to give up such a vital part of "what we are" to be able to trade with some odd country billions of miles away.

As it is already, all this trading is done in English, a language everyone can understand and if we do not, we use a translator.

I simply can not see how such a gigantic and difficult...if not impossible... project can help the world to make it worth the effort.

On a related note: Most series use translator devices, which makes it possible to comprehend what is said to you, no matter the language. By the time we are able to meet aliens, I am sure we have the technology to create such devices as well.

Originally posted by Stealthmunchkania
We already have that - I believe one of the rules is that proposals be in English.

A very good point. If the UN already has English as an official language (all the posts that I have seen have been in English too), then why do we need a completely new "official language"?

As has been noted, the UN has an operational common language of English that was defined in the creation of the UN

As such, any further legislation on the issue would address local governments only, and that is just plain disrespectful of the culture of individual nations.

Unsupportable IMO

It is true that most of our world does not accept the UN as their, allow me to use this term, "counsellor", and thereby will not consider using the world's official language; however, let me remind you of the old Roman empire, whose influence went far beyond its borders, and whose latin language became de facto the language of the known world. Economical and also socio-political factors, not the UN, will convince nations outside the UN to start using it. We only need to start the process.Your point is well taken, but it remains our belief that the United Nations does not weild the relative power or influence of the Roman empire in today's universe, and is unlikely to conquer and subjugate the known worlds to institute a universal language as the Romans did once upon a time. Moreover, it is prudent to note that Latin fell from use after Rome fell from power; indicating to us that such a universal language is maintained only by an overriding authority. The United Nations is not in a position to be that type of authority. The matter of the exorbitant cost associated with an effort to standardize national languages also remains. The Alphini's position stands.

Yătzĭl Ämsi
First Alphin of the Socialist Republic of Xanthal

I believe that the language could be Basic English (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_english). There is a wikipedia written it, and since most of us know english or a small part of it, it would be good. Also seeing that we can write UN proposals in it, but all resolutions/etc would have to be simplified.

ooc:

I think the discussion was interesting; while it is quite sure the proposal won't get through, I want to thank everyone for their input.

On the other hand, I think the issue can still be addressed, with more appropriate wording; if anyone would be interested (as it seemed from the discussion) I would be more than glad to re-do the proposal, at a later time.

Thanks everybody!! http://assets.jolt.co.uk/forums/images/icons/icon14.gif
Thumbs up

ic:
*Ultrasilvania TV* *News Bulletin*
In international news this week, our attention was towards the "Official Language of the World" Act, proposal for a UN resolution, which was submitted by HRH Voievod Iancu. While the proposal has little chance to become a resolution, the ambassador of Ultrasilvania noted with satisfaction the meaningful discussion held around it. In his press statement, he commented on several ideas that might be the source of further proposals.
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