NationStates Jolt Archive

Greetings Fellow Nationstaters,

I am the UN Delegate for the Region of Hadera and I just submitted a proposal to Ban PBA. I'm asking all fellow UN Delegates to approve this proposal so that the general population can vote on it as well. Thank you for all your support.

J.NELSON

Greetings Fellow Nationstaters,

I am the UN Delegate for the Region of Hadera and I just submitted a proposal to Ban PBA. I'm asking all fellow UN Delegates to approve this proposal so that the general population can vote on it as well. Thank you for all your support.

J.NELSON

For future reference, these requests should be posted in the UN forum.

I'm going to the Moderation forum to request a thread move now.

Unfortunately, there is no such thing as "partial-birth abortion." It's a term invented by anti-choice organizations to make a safe, legal medical procedure sound scary and gory.

It would be like if I decided that anyone who opposed a woman's right to choose should be called a "knuckle-dragging, inbred, poorly dressed, mouth breather." See how I'm playing semantic games? I'm arbitrarily assigning an unpleasant name to someone or something in order to sway public opinion. That's not very honest, is it?

If you would have called for a ban on late-term abortions, or third-trimester abortions, you know - the legitimate medical names for the procedure - people may have actually taken you seriously. However, at this point, I doubt that will happen.

Get out while you still can! (I mean membership in the UN :D)

Unfotunately, there is no such thing as "partial-birth abortion." It's a term invented by anti-choice organizations to make a safe, legal medical procedure sound scary and gory.

It would be like if I decided that anyone who opposed a woman's right to choose should be called a "knuckle-dragging, inbred, poorly dressed, mouth breather." See how I'm playing semantic games? I'm arbitrarily assigning an unpleasant name to someone or something in order to sway public opinion. That's not very honest, is it?

If you would have called for a ban on late-term abortions, or third-trimester abortions, you know - the legitimate medical names for the procedure - people may have actually taken you seriously. However, at this point, I doubt that will happen.
Wow, it's about time someone made that point. To add to your point, I will say that in partial birth aborions fetuses are not about to be born. Labor is artificially initiated and the fetus is destroyed before the head is delivered. If the abortion did occur directly before natural birth, as the name suggests, it would be a useless opporation. Conservatives have used this semantical trick to argue the position that partial birth abortion is useless. The sad thing is that many of them don't even understand their argument is based on an untruth. BTW I am personally against late term abortions.

Contradicts previous legislation without a repeal, therefore illegal. Plus it is not an issue that transcends national boundaries

I note that regardless of the legality, for future reference, it is seen as polite to post a copy of your resolution on the forums

The good people of Discordinia are in agreement with all opposition to this proposal, for all the varied reasons stated above.

Keep your laws off our bodies.


All Hail Eris!

Cookie I, El Jefe

Unfortunately, there is no such thing as "partial-birth abortion." It's a term invented by anti-choice organizations to make a safe, legal medical procedure sound scary and gory.

It would be like if I decided that anyone who opposed a woman's right to choose should be called a "knuckle-dragging, inbred, poorly dressed, mouth breather." See how I'm playing semantic games? I'm arbitrarily assigning an unpleasant name to someone or something in order to sway public opinion. That's not very honest, is it?

If you would have called for a ban on late-term abortions, or third-trimester abortions, you know - the legitimate medical names for the procedure - people may have actually taken you seriously. However, at this point, I doubt that will happen.

Not you that you care nor are you willing to listen to me, but partial birth abortion DOES exist. Partial Birth is the layman term for the Dialation and Extraction method of abortion. Basically, the abortionist pulls the baby all the way out of the mother, save the head, pokes a hole in the back of the skull, abd literally sucks the brain out of the skull. It is gory and it is a death! The baby would live if pulled all the wya out of the mother. If you want I'll send page upon page on the TRUE facts of abortion. May Gad Bless you.

I am from the region represented by Antipatris.

I just want to point out that this is resolution is NOT BANNING ALL abortions. And for you who don't like the term partial birth abortion, use the term, 3rd Tri-mester abortion. I support my delegate's proposal and I hope it will be queved so I can VOTE FOR IT!!!

Not you that you care nor are you willing to listen to me, but partial birth abortion DOES exist. Partial Birth is the layman term for the Dialation and Extraction method of abortion. Basically, the abortionist pulls the baby all the way out of the mother, save the head, pokes a hole in the back of the skull, abd literally sucks the brain out of the skull. It is gory and it is a death! The baby would live if pulled all the wya out of the mother. If you want I'll send page upon page on the TRUE facts of abortion. May Gad Bless you.

I've heard the horror stories and seen the pics, most of which are fakes believe it or not, but do wonder why any woman would put herself through that on a whim. Surely if she has gone that far in the pregnacy its logical to assume she wanted the child but was forced to have an abortion because of either deformaties to the foetus or danger to herself. I find it very hard to believe any woman would go through most of her pregnacy, then demand a foetus close to term be killed rather than demand every measure taken to ensure its survival.

I would be very interested in seeing the figures on how many late term abortions are actually performed, and for what reasons.

I am from the region represented by Antipatris.

I just want to point out that this is resolution is NOT BANNING ALL abortions. And for you who don't like the term partial birth abortion, use the term, 3rd Tri-mester abortion. I support my delegate's proposal and I hope it will be queved so I can VOTE FOR IT!!!

1) As your Regional Delegate hath pointed out, Partial-Birth Abortion does exist, it's just another term (used by certain anti-choicers) for the Dilation & Extraction procedure. However, that procedure is not exclusively used during 3rd trimester pregnancies ... and is used in earlier stages, sometimes out of medical necessity, for the sake of the mother's life/health/well-being. Among all the other problems associated with this proposal, there is no safeguard whatsoever for the mother's life/health.

2) In the NSW, there are conceivably many races and sentient species for whom the Dilation & Extraction method may be the ONLY means by which abortion can be accomplished due to their respective and unique anatomies.

3) In the end, this is most certainly not an issue that transcends national boundaries, and is just an attempt to place authoritarian controls over a specific gender in order to further a moral/religious code that is neither universally accepted or absolute.

The good people of Discordinia will not support this.

Greetings Fellow Nationstaters,

I am the UN Delegate for the Region of Hadera and I just submitted a proposal to Ban PBA. I'm asking all fellow UN Delegates to approve this proposal so that the general population can vote on it as well. Thank you for all your support.

J.NELSON

PBA is a misleading term, used as a scare word by anti-choice activists to curtail a woman's right to choose and as such shouldn't be used. This however, has already been covered elsewhere in greater detail, so I shall not pursue the point.

A woman who has decided to undergo a Extraction-Dilation Procedure, does so only for extreme medical reasons and does not make such a choice lightly. The procedure is unpleasant, yes, but it is used rarely and only in circumstances that involve the life of the mother or severe damage to the foeutus.

As a matter of choice and as a matter of respect for a woman's privacy, we oppose this repeal.

Leonard Otterby
Ambassador for the Republic of Compadria to the U.N.

Long live pro-choice Compadria!

The Socialist Republic opposes U.N. legislation compelling allowances, bans, or regulations of abortion. We believe that decisions regarding legality of pre-birth termination of potentially sentient organisms should be left to national governments.

Tşärls Lorĕns
Third Alphin of the Socialist Republic of Xanthal

The Socialist Republic opposes U.N. legislation compelling allowances, bans, or regulations of abortion. We believe that decisions regarding legality of pre-birth termination of potentially sentient organisms should be left to national governments.

Tşärls Lorĕns
Third Alphin of the Socialist Republic of Xanthal

The Sultanate of Cluichstan stands with our friends in the Socialist Republic of Xanthal in opposition to this proposal. Indeed, the people of Cluichstan go even further, believing that not even national governments have the right to make such decisions for their people.

Respectfully,
Sheik Nadnerb bin Cluich
Cluichstan's Ambassador to the UN

IT is sad to see that polotics have blinded the true moral of the issue. Do you not see that this is murder in the most heinous fashion? Far be it from to dictate what your country should and should not do. The mother has every right to an abortion, this si accepted, but her rights end when she endangers the life of another. I only ask that you consider the MORAL issue at hand. We have a chance to make the world a better place! It our responsibility to defend those who cannot defend themselves.

I only ask that you consider the MORAL issue at hand.

Under no circumstances will I agree to the legislation of morality.
To do so is but one step on the road to blind theocracy.

IT is sad to see that polotics have blinded the true moral of the issue. Do you not see that this is murder in the most heinous fashion? Far be it from to dictate what your country should and should not do. The mother has every right to an abortion, this si accepted, but her rights end when she endangers the life of another. I only ask that you consider the MORAL issue at hand. We have a chance to make the world a better place! It our responsibility to defend those who cannot defend themselves.

If you are so against this, you are quite welcome to outlaw the practice in your own nation. The existing Abortion Rights resolution is so vague that you would have no problems doing that. I must tell you however that emotional appeals on morals won't change my stance on this.

I have no intention of imposing your morals on my nation. The women of our nation are intelligent beings who are quite capable of making decisions concerning their fertility and body without the government sticking its nose into their business.

In the case of late term abortions, I've seen no evidence that its a widespread practice and/or mostly done for no medical reason. If you have evidence to the contrary, please present it.

If everyone thought it was morally wrong you wouldn't have to legislate against it, as no-one would elect to have a late term abortion

IT is sad to see that polotics have blinded the true moral of the issue. Do you not see that this is murder in the most heinous fashion? Far be it from to dictate what your country should and should not do. The mother has every right to an abortion, this si accepted, but her rights end when she endangers the life of another. I only ask that you consider the MORAL issue at hand.

As there is no universally accepted moral code, it would be impertinent for the NSUN legislate out of moral concerns.

The good people of Discordinia agree that the rights of an individual are sacrosanct and should not be the basis for infringement upon the rights of others ... including others right to life. That said, the good people of Discordinia do not consider an unborn fetus to be a life with rights ... and (apparently) a great number of other nations feel the same. We have enacted legislation reflecting these principles.

Some may consider this to be immoral, and the good people of Discordinia respect the opinions of others. However, on the flip-side of that coin, the good people of Discordinia would consider the use of an individual (a pregnant mother) and her own rights as a means to an end to be egregiously immoral.

In closing, the good people of Discordinia do not wish or intend to debate this issue further. We suggest you give up on this proposal as it will not pass as a resolution ... assuming it would even garner enough votes to make it that far.

All Hail Eris!

Cookie I, El Jefe

Hirota recognises the concerns raised by member states regarding late term abortions - My government sees no reason why an abortion should be performed when the foetus is capable of living outside of the womb with (at least) a reasonable quality of life.

Many debates on when a foetus can be considered "alive" have appeared in these halls, and whilst we have been unable to decide on WHEN a foetus is a viable human being, there is a strong consensus that providing a foetus can live outside the womb, it can be considered a human being.

Hirota can therefore appreciate the position of some governments that being able to perform an abortion in the third trimester could be tantamount to murder.

However, Hirota condemns the usage of inaccurate and incorrect phrases employed by the original poster on this topic. Such words are only used to invoke grossly inaccurate and incorrect images, and are not tolerated by my government. We would welcome well informed and well reasoned debates on this issue - which is clearly not the case, and the nation of Antipatris and other nations have failed to present either well informed or well reasoned arguements on this subject.

Hirota has stated time and time again we would support the introduction of such legislation would be welcomed and supported by my government, and would happily assist in a genuine and well considered effort to bring this to pass. Sadly this is not the case in this debate.

The Socialist Republic opposes U.N. legislation compelling allowances, bans, or regulations of abortion. We believe that decisions regarding legality of pre-birth termination of potentially sentient organisms should be left to national governments.
Hirota disagrees and asserts it's view that the right of the foetus (which we assert is certainly capable of surviving outside the womb in most cases with a reasonable standard of life once it has entered the third trimester) does equal the rights of the mother - providing there is no medical risk to the mother or child.

The UN has already established that the mother has the right to an abortion regardless of the national governments efforts to otherwise prevent this, and we see no reason why national government can override the rights of the child, nor do we see how the rights of the mother override the rights of the child in situations without medical complication.

The good people of Discordinia agree that the rights of an individual are sacrosanct and should not be the basis for infringement upon the rights of others ... including others right to life. That said, the good people of Discordinia do not consider an unborn fetus to be a life with rights ... and (apparently) a great number of other nations feel the same. We have enacted legislation reflecting these principles.Actually there has been no consensus on when an unborn foetus can be considered a living human being - the spectrum ranges from conception to from leaving the womb. Hirota has observed for a long time there is a strong and well reasoned arguement for considering a foetus which can survive outside the womb with a reasonable standard of life as qualifying as a human being.

Hirota disagrees and asserts it's view that the right of the foetus (which we assert is certainly capable of surviving outside the womb in most cases with a reasonable standard of life once it has entered the third trimester) does equal the rights of the mother - providing there is no medical risk to the mother or child.

The UN has already established that the mother has the right to an abortion regardless of the national governments efforts to otherwise prevent this, and we see no reason why national government can override the rights of the child, nor do we see how the rights of the mother override the rights of the child in situations without medical complication.The Socialist Republic does not think its own majority views on abortion relevant to what should be mandated by the United Nations. We adhere to our belief that the issue of abortion should not be internationally legislated.

Tşärls Lorĕns
Third Alphin of the Socialist Republic of Xanthal

The Socialist Republic does not think its own majority views on abortion relevant to what should be mandated by the United Nations. We adhere to our belief that the issue of abortion should not be internationally legislated.

Tşärls Lorĕns
Third Alphin of the Socialist Republic of Xanthal

Its not an issue of abortion, its an issue of womens rights.

Women make up half the population of most nations and protecting their rights from abuse and discrimination by national governments is an international issue in my opinion.

Slightly off topic, but if I remember correctly, don't past UN resolutions merely give women the right to have an abortion?

Now, correct me if I'm wrong but surely if one has neither the technology, nor proffessionals qualified to perform an abortion, one could still maintain that the women of a nation with the above problems still have the right to have an abortion, but the country cannot actually perform one?

Just an interesting loophole, which may not exist...

Its not an issue of abortion, its an issue of womens rights.

Women make up half the population of most nations and protecting their rights from abuse and discrimination by national governments is an international issue in my opinion.Perhaps, but many would argue that it is an issue of the unborn child's right to life. It is an issue of sufficient controversy and what we see as moral ambiguity that the Alphini cannot support resolutions allowing or banning abortion; no matter who's "rights" are involved.

Tşärls Lorĕns
Third Alphin of the Socialist Republic of Xanthal

Slightly off topic, but if I remember correctly, don't past UN resolutions merely give women the right to have an abortion?

Now, correct me if I'm wrong but surely if one has neither the technology, nor proffessionals qualified to perform an abortion, one could still maintain that the women of a nation with the above problems still have the right to have an abortion, but the country cannot actually perform one?

Just an interesting loophole, which may not exist...
Or there might not be anyone willing to perform an abortion, which is the case in The Rogue Nation of Flibbleites, where basically unless the women's life is being endangered by carrying the child then the doctors won't perform the procedure.

Bob Flibble
UN Representative

Or there might not be anyone willing to perform an abortion, which is the case in The Rogue Nation of Flibbleites, where basically unless the women's life is being endangered by carrying the child then the doctors won't perform the procedure.

Bob Flibble
UN Representative

That's a loophole I wish I could have brought into fruition with a proposal a while back.

Or there might not be anyone willing to perform an abortion, which is the case in The Rogue Nation of Flibbleites, where basically unless the women's life is being endangered by carrying the child then the doctors won't perform the procedure.

Bob Flibble
UN Representative

Aren't the doctors required by law to treat the patient infront of them?

And if the government is permitting doctors to not help patients, they are interfering with the right of a woman to have an abortion. Which is not permitted by the resolution.

Or so it could be argued.

Slightly off topic, but if I remember correctly, don't past UN resolutions merely give women the right to have an abortion?

Now, correct me if I'm wrong but surely if one has neither the technology, nor proffessionals qualified to perform an abortion, one could still maintain that the women of a nation with the above problems still have the right to have an abortion, but the country cannot actually perform one?

Just an interesting loophole, which may not exist...

If the government are not setting about providing the ability for a woman to have an abortion, they are interfering with the right to have one, and as such are in violation.

Aren't the doctors required by law to treat the patient infront of them?

And if the government is permitting doctors to not help patients, they are interfering with the right of a woman to have an abortion. Which is not permitted by the resolution.

Or so it could be argued.
That may be your interpertation. however our doctors also consider the unborn child that the woman is carrying to be their patient as well and as our doctors are required to follow the hippocratic oath they consider unnecessary abortions to be in violation of said oath.

Bob Flibble
UN Representative

That may be your interpertation. however our doctors also consider the unborn child that the woman is carrying to be their patient as well and as our doctors are required to follow the hippocratic oath they consider unnecessary abortions to be in violation of said oath.

Bob Flibble
UN Representative

And if the government condones this? If it doesn't put them in jail for refusing to help? Wouldn't that be in violation?

And if the government condones this? If it doesn't put them in jail for refusing to help? Wouldn't that be in violation?
I'm going to turn these questions over to my brother as he knows more about the legalities of this issue

Bob Flibble
UN Representative

As my brother said the first time, if an abortion is the only way to save the woman's life then the doctor will perform one, otherwise it is considered to be harming the unborn child and therefore a violation of their hippocratic oath to do no harm. Our government legalized abortion as the resolution required us to do, but if the doctors won't perform the procedure then there's nothing we can do. Simply because it's not the government that's obstructing anyone from having an abortion. If a woman can find a doctor willing to perform the procedure than they can have one, of course should the Flibbleite Medical Association (the doctor's union, which has no connection to the government of The Rogue Nation of Flibbleites whatsoever) finds out that that doctor performed an unnecessary abortion then that doctor will be expelled from the association and once that happens no health insurance company in the country will do business with them.

Brandon Flibble
Grand Poobah of The Rogue Nation of Flibbleites

Greetings Fellow Nationstaters,

I am the UN Delegate for the Region of Hadera and I just submitted a proposal to Ban PBA. I'm asking all fellow UN Delegates to approve this proposal so that the general population can vote on it as well. Thank you for all your support.

J.NELSON

lol, visit the I.N.A.T.U.N.F NEWS (http://antiun.20m.com/custom2.html)