NationStates Jolt Archive

James Carterville has written a worthy proposal (now on page 2, I believe).

I can think of numerous reasons to support firearm ownership rights.

One, if every woman on the planet was trained to use a handgun (and carried one) rape statistics would plummet (and yes, in real life, I am the single father of two very tiny and vulnerable adult daughters).

Two, if every business owner carried a firearm, and knew how to use it, robbery statistics would plummet.

Three, people need to stop looking at firearms as the source of evil on the planet, which makes about as much sense as blaming Ford or Toyota for drunken driving deaths.

In any case, take a look at James Carterville's proposal, and think about it. If this one doesn't go through, I'll be back with a newer and better (meaning wordier) proposal in a week or two.

AK_ID
Delegate, The Wild West

This is not an issue that transcends national boundaries.

The Right To Bear Arms
A resolution to tighten or relax gun control laws.

Category: Gun Control
Decision: Relax
Proposed by: James Carterville

Description: 1) Noting that in this modern era more crimes are prevented by fear of gun ownership than any other cause.

2) Also noting that weapons are at fault for any mishandling just as much as pencils are at fault for spelling errors.

3) Finally noting that in the occurance of an invasion or national diaster the people (since they own weapons) can defend themselves against any threatening force if the military is either not there or defeated.

Approvals: 26 (James Carterville, Shariann, WZ Forums, Thatsallmine, NeoAsiaEuropa, AK_ID, Screw you all, Ghost_Goth, Rawkenshtocken, Typhoonium, Discendenza, Dixon Eldorado, Mar Tortugas, Joseph12345, White Kanatia, Dragonions, Brocklandia, Krankor, Chaucerin, The Scribe of Alphaks, Party States, Band-Geektonia, North Dutchfieldia, Habardia, Suudopolis, Wuotanval)

Status: Lacking Support (requires 102 more approvals)

Voting Ends: Thu Sep 29 2005

It's generally advised you post the text. Delegates don't always have time to go look it up for themselves.

1) This is highly contestable.

2) OK, but if a gun handler makes a mistake there are no erasers.

3) There are other, less deadly weapons than guns that can be used to fend off these "forces" that are spoken of.

Regardless, this resolution is basically a statement that proposes no action other then its category and has no method of enforcement listed and no argument as to why this is a global issue.

You might wish to note the fact that an armed society is one that presents a less inviting target for any potential non-UN invaders. :)

We can do our own defence, thank you.

How easy Cobdenia is to invade is not the concern of this UN

You might wish to note the fact that an armed society is one that presents a less inviting target for any potential non-UN invaders. :)

I would argue that not having widely desirable resource deposits would be a greater factor in making a country less inviting to invaders, though obviously a well armed citizenry would be a factor. But I would think, too, that the potential invaders would look first to military strength, which this proposal does not cover.

The people of Discordinia are in agreement with the people of New Cobdenia. Our defense is our own concern. We further harbour great doubts that invading our fair country would be worth the time and expense. Finally, we suspect that your own SNUN delegation may have been infiltrated by arms manufacturers.

Cookie I, El Jefe

I'd like it proven to me that arming citizens will make crime plummet because I don't believe that for a second.

If anything the probability of a victim being armed would only make a crimminal much more likely to go armed themselves for their own protection, and more likely to use a weapon if they feel threatened. If someone wants the contents of a shops till, they will get it. Whether that means threatening an attendent with a knife or just going in and shooting him/her.

Please show me giving ordinairy citizens guns will reduce crime because logic tells me that it will just turn non-lethal crimes into major lethal firearm related crimes as law breakers move from knives ect to guns to keep up with their victims and shoot first just in case.

Oh wonderous, I love the idea that dropping crime rates is more important that this:

US homicides due to civilian guns: 10,000 + per year

I note the use of the word homicide, which normally DOES NOT include self-defense (I've heard numbers as high as 17,000 before when you consider deaths).

Canada has much less than 1/5th of that per capita (140+ for 1/10 the population). Japan, who's population is about 2/5-1/2 of the population of the US is around 50 deaths per year.

......Next

I'll vote for this proposal! If you arm everyone they will have the means to defend themselves and others, not to mention that criminals will be less likely to rob a bank if everyone there has a gun. But lots of people dont know how to handle a gun so it might be a good idea to make them pass a safety test to get a permit to carry a gun. :D :)

Originally posted by Gun fighters

[C]riminals will be less likely to rob a bank if everyone there has a gun.

Won't the criminals in question simply arm themselves with guns? I know that this happens anyway, but if criminals know there will be people carrying handguns in a bank, they will simply arm themselves with sub-machine guns. There are a number (e.g. the Czech Skorpion) that are small enough to be easily concealed. Lax gun laws simply make gun crime, and resultant deaths more likely.

James Carterville has written a worthy proposal (now on page 2, I believe).

I can think of numerous reasons to support firearm ownership rights.

One, if every woman on the planet was trained to use a handgun (and carried one) rape statistics would plummet (and yes, in real life, I am the single father of two very tiny and vulnerable adult daughters).

Two, if every business owner carried a firearm, and knew how to use it, robbery statistics would plummet.

Three, people need to stop looking at firearms as the source of evil on the planet, which makes about as much sense as blaming Ford or Toyota for drunken driving deaths.

In any case, take a look at James Carterville's proposal, and think about it. If this one doesn't go through, I'll be back with a newer and better (meaning wordier) proposal in a week or two.

AK_ID
Delegate, The Wild West

The Wild West Delegate writes an interesting proposal, yet one we oppose on the following grounds.

1). The idea that arming one's citizens will reduce crime is well-intentioned, yet flawed. Yes, crime may drop initially, yet arming people will only inspire criminals to arm up.

"Fine, you have a handgun, i'll go get myself an Uzi, or an AK-47. Then we'll see whose smiling"

It will also arm a large percentage of the population, introducing more guns into society and increasing the risks for tragic deaths, i.e. young children accidentally shooting themselves, disputes resulting in death through firearm usage; suicide rates increasing. It just won't work in the long run.

2). They might also go psychopathic and shoot customers. Or, they may THINK you are about to rob them and shoot you, even if you have no intention. In a split second decision, if a gun is involved, tragedy can occur.

3). Cars aren't built to kill people. Guns are intended to kill things. Case in point really.

The way to reduce crime is to target the causes of crime and tackle the criminals through re-habilitation and an effective police force. The risks entailed by a vigilante society would be catastrophic and cannot be afforded. Thus, Compadria opposes this proposal.

Leonard Otterby
Ambassador for the Republic of Compadria to the U.N.

Long live gun-free Compadria!

Please show me giving ordinairy citizens guns will reduce crime because logic tells me that it will just turn non-lethal crimes into major lethal firearm related crimes as law breakers move from knives ect to guns to keep up with their victims and shoot first just in case.

To stop this if you use a weapon in any crime you will get a harder sentence for the crime... If you kill another person during a crime then you have given up your life. Don't play with them hang them bury them be done with them.

Also train people to use these weapons properly and safely before they get one and make sure all know when it's legal to shot and not legal to do so. Educate the people.. Yes this means the criminals thus if they mess up they can not say they didn't know the laws.

To many society toy with killers rahter than deal with them for what they are... Killers....


As far as type of weapons if they show they can't handle it then they don't get one... If they are not qualified to own a certain weapon then if they caught with it they go to prison and lose all rights to ever own any weapons. As they have shown they do not respect laws and thus should not have them... Again don't play with them deal with them..

I'd much rather treat the causes of most crime. Poverty and poor education/work opportunities than arm up my nation like the wild west and put in revenge fueled knee jerk responses to the inevitable increase in gun related deaths.

We don't have any prisons in Waterana and while the death penalty is on the books (it will be gone next time I get that issue), we don't have the facilities to murder crimminals, even if we were vengence hungry enough to want to.

It makes more sense to me to keep guns out of the hands of ordinairy citizens in this nation and keep crime levels at the low rate they are now, than arm up everyone and deal with the deadly results of our stupidity later.

What you do in your nation however is up to you. Thats the basis of my opposition to any legalise/ban guns. Every nation has very different ideas on this subject and how to deal with it.

I've always found it strange that some people consider theft a worse crime than murder

Actually I like this proposal. But then again, I have something to gain. As a country that has Arms manufacturing as Its number one industry, and soon to join the international Arms trade, this proposal could make my nation millions. :p All hail a citizen's right to bear arms. :D
Excelsior,
Sen Horatio Sulla
UN Ambassador

* Remember Palentine Arms. From Popguns to the Ma Deuce, and all guns in between. :D *

I've always found it strange that some people consider theft a worse crime than murder

I've always found it strange that some people consider restricting liberty and creating large-scale oppression is better than the allowance of a liberty which may or may not foster small-scale oppression.

Minister of UN Affairs
Edward Jones

I think gun shouldnt be given to citizens cus it will higher the risks of accidents (like the kid who finds the gun of his father and starts shooting everibody for fun) and criminality (the guy who had a bad day and decides to kill his boss) and will make everithing simpler for criminals in other words everithing most people here want to avoid.

Allowing people to carry guns! Terrible idea.

Before: A drunken argument between a few people outside a club, someone gets stabbed. Survives

After: A drunken argument between a few people outside a club, someone gets shot, all hell breaks loose, everyone drawing guns, people may shoot the killer, each other...

Also, the child point everyone brings up. Child finds gun. You know kids. They pulls at the bits, the trigger, then someone's been shot...

The police's lives would also be way harder, having to deal with all criminals having guns.

There are more things I could say, but I don't have the time.

In conclusion. No no no.

Also, the child point everyone brings up. Child finds gun. You know kids. They pulls at the bits, the trigger, then someone's been shot...
Which is why the owner of said gun should keep it unloaded when they're not using it. :rolleyes:

Bob Flibble
UN Representative

Guns! Guns are bad. Mkay?