NationStates Jolt Archive

Hi, I need a lot of support from Delegates to get this turned into a resoloution. I want to repeal "The 40 Hour Workweek act", the 59th UN Resoloution passed. The Reason I'm doing this is because since this act, Many People in my Country and around the world, have been limited the freedom of working more then 40 hours, and are now stuck with a lower income. The UN is to make the world a better place for Nationstates Countries and this isn't helping and doesn't have a real "Point". For the sake of having the right to work how long you want, I need your support Delegates. Please Comment.

The Dominion of Thanagaria will support the repeal. It seems like a poor idea anyway.

1) It's considered polite to post a copy of your proposal on these forums so we don't have to dig through the proposal list to decide if its worth supporting (I actually tend not to look for a proposal unless I see the full text on the forums first and have enough time to fully discuss it with the author AND feel its worthy of my support......which is why I rarely support anything that didn't get drafted here).

2) Regardless, no. There has yet to be a single good argument that I've seen as a major flaw in the resolution. People have suggested some, but I see them as minor compared to the protection of the average worker.

I have to concur with Forgottenlands.

Upon review of the resolution in question, I find that it has ample provisions for allowing workers to put in more than 40 hours in a week.

While I sympathize with the nation of Fernetti's overall thrust as pertaining to restrictive labour legislation, as the 40 Hour Workweek resolution is at its core an industrial-age relic, nonetheless it is flexible enough to accommodate the work realities of today.

While I have your ear Fernetti, I have in the works a repeal proposal of my own. I invite you to come and check out my thread on this forum, where I am holding court as I build towards submitting my proposal to repeal the "Sex Education Act".

Steve Perry
President
Republic of Teruchev

This is one of those instances where I wish we could amend rather than repeal/replace. The only complaint I have against "The 40 Hour Workweek" is the 80 hour cap on maximum hours. In my opinion, if some fool wants to volunteer to work 80+ hours then more power to him (or her). It's a very minor complaint, however, and I don't see it as justifying a repeal.

This is one of those instances where I wish we could amend rather than repeal/replace. The only complaint I have against "The 40 Hour Workweek" is the 80 hour cap on maximum hours. In my opinion, if some fool wants to volunteer to work 80+ hours then more power to him (or her). It's a very minor complaint, however, and I don't see it as justifying a repeal.

I do. And even the representative from _Myopia_ agreed with me that it should be re-written to take into account the abilities of different species.

Minister of UN Affairs
Edward Jones

Should this come to a vote, the People's Republic of Uzakastan fully supports this repeal and we will vote FOR this repeal upon public vote.

Thanks.

1) It's considered polite to post a copy of your proposal on these forums so we don't have to dig through the proposal list to decide if its worth supporting (I actually tend not to look for a proposal unless I see the full text on the forums first and have enough time to fully discuss it with the author AND feel its worthy of my support......which is why I rarely support anything that didn't get drafted here).

Sorry about that, I'm new to resoloutions of my own. So I'll post the repeal the next chance I get.

Anyway, I respect your opinion that we should keep it, but my leginimate argument is that It's totally up to the people how long they want to work, I think that it's horrible if a boss is forcing someone else to work for more then 40 hours, but with this act, people are restricted the freedom to work the hours they want and are now suffering a much lower income. I think that THis Act should be repealed and then a new act should be placed in, stating that it's okay if a person chooses to work more then 40 hours, however, it's not okay for a boss to force someone to work more then 40 hours.

While I am generally in favor of the repeal of "bad" resolutions, I have yet to see an argument that the "40 Hour Workweek" was in fact a bad resolution. I have also yet to see any argument that fully addresses a significant flaw in the resolution.

The arguments for and against the 40 Hour Workweek seem to have one major flaw in them. People don't work for "hours" they work for "pay." Thus the question of people needing more "pay" is not a priori the sole question of people needing more hours ... it can also boil down to the question of needing more pay for those hours.

In general I think one can argue for the conservation of work. In the simplest form this means that work exists and more or less someone is going to do it. Working more than 40 hours doesn't create work from a vaccuum, it simply cuts into the potential work ability of some other person. Arguments that someone needs to supplement their income by more work is literally robbing Peter to pay Paul, because that extra work the person is doing is work that someone else cannot do because it is already done.

Note there is a more complex form of the conservation of work that takes into account the ability of goverments to "make work" by spending huge amounts of cash. But in general this means they must tax the people (thus requiring the tax payers to work more to maintain their standard of living) or go into debt which will require workers in the future to lower their standard of living in order to pay for the work created by the goverment.

Working more hours is never a good solution. Parents need time with their children, people need time with other people, and the needs of social and civil society should not be sacrificed because some people are not paying their workers enough money. All people should be entitled to a living wage in accordance with the 40 hour workweek. If this is not the case, increasing the hourly wages is a better cause than increasing the hourly limits of work.

I do. And even the representative from _Myopia_ agreed with me that it should be re-written to take into account the abilities of different species.

Minister of UN Affairs
Edward Jones

Well - I agreed that if an acceptable replacement was drafted, which maintained most of the same principles (perhaps with some allowance for working longer at certain times to earn credit to work shorter hours at others - useful in agriculture etc.) but found a way to deal with societies where superhuman abilities are the norm (i.e. I don't want limits raised just because there are 3 androids which don't need sleep in a nation), then I would support a repeal solely on the grounds on these issues - but not until then.

I'll vote for this proposal. ;)

The 40 hour week is an essential measure to protect workers from exploitation. It prevents excessive work practices and ensures that employees are given the opportunity to enjoy life and have a healthy work life balance. The advantages of this legislations are myriad.

If you give people more time outside of work, more time to raise their families and children, more time to pursue their interests, they will be happier and more productive individuals. They will not feel exhausted by excessive work and business will become more efficient through their highly motivated employees.

This must of course act in conjunction with high wages, so that workers do not suffer as a result of shorter working hours; thus they do not have to rely on external benefits. The payment of higher wages and comfortable working hours, in turn attracts people to your labour market and evens out the playing field for competition, ensuring that all across the nations of the U.N. will possess the right to enjoy these possibilities.

For humanitarian reasons, for business reasons, for prosperity and a happy society, we should retain the progressive social cause, embodied by this resolution.

Leonard Otterby
Ambassador for the Republic of Compadria to the U.N.

Long live employee-friendly Compadria!

Sorry about that, I'm new to resoloutions of my own. So I'll post the repeal the next chance I get.

Anyway, I respect your opinion that we should keep it, but my leginimate argument is that It's totally up to the people how long they want to work, I think that it's horrible if a boss is forcing someone else to work for more then 40 hours, but with this act, people are restricted the freedom to work the hours they want and are now suffering a much lower income. I think that THis Act should be repealed and then a new act should be placed in, stating that it's okay if a person chooses to work more then 40 hours, however, it's not okay for a boss to force someone to work more then 40 hours.

I agree with your sentiment, but that isn't what the resolution does. As Yelda said earlier, only the 80 hour upper cap does that.

Why?

1) During the hiring process in weaker economies (eg: if there is many more workers that could do the job that need a job then there are spaces to fill in that field - which you see in many parts of the world), the boss has full control of the procedure. Unless this guy is a leading expert in the field, he's not in control. As such, the limitation is to stop the exploitation of the workers.

2) If the employee is valuable enough to the company and if the company needs the extra work, the employee has the right to ask for overtime. He is not contractually obligated to work it, and he can consent to work it at the boss's request (but he can also refuse), but he has this option. As such, the limitation isn't 40hours work week, its the boss's greed. If the boss is so greedy that he won't give his employees overtime, then he would be greedy enough to work them until they drop.

I agree with your sentiment, but that isn't what the resolution does. As Yelda said earlier, only the 80 hour upper cap does that.


Wait I'm Confused, What do you mean?

Anyway, here's the proposal. Voting ends later today so please do so now!

Description: UN Resolution #59: The 40 Hour Workweek (Category: Social Justice; Strength: Significant) shall be struck out and rendered null and void.

Argument: NOTING that The 40 hour work week act is a limiting the Freedom of being able to work the hours you choose to and effecting their income.

CONCERNED that because of this act, many people around the world now have a much lower income then they previously did because of restrictions on their freedom, and choice to work longer hours.

FURTHER CONSIDERING that because Bosses may force their employees to work more than 40 hours, a new resoloution will be in the making that says IT IS OKAY for Workers to choose to work longer than 40 hours but it IS NOT OKAY for Anyone to force employees to work longer than 40 hours, following the repeal of this act.

So for the freedom of the workers and good of the ecomonomy, please repeal for the following reasons.

Wait I'm Confused, What do you mean?
That by under the terms of the original resolution, people are free to work up to 80 hours per week if they wish. The only thing the resolution does is guarantee that they are paid extra for the hours exceeding 40.

Just to clear up any confusion, here's the Resolution text:
The 40 Hour Workweek


A resolution to reduce income inequality and increase basic welfare.

Category: Social Justice
Strength: Significant
Proposed by: Free Soviets

Description: 1. The maximum standard full-time workweek shall be set at 40 hours. Nations shall remain free to set their workweeks lower than this.

2. No one may be contractually obligated to work more than 40 hours per week, except for the following exemptions,

a ) military personnel

b ) civil defense forces

c ) civilian emergency response personnel

Excepting military personnel, these exemptions shall only apply during emergency situations.

3. No one may be contractually obligated to remain on the worksite without pay.

4. On call hours shall count against the 40 hour limit.

5. Work exceeding 40 hours per week that is voluntarily undertaken shall not exceed a total of 80 hours per week, and shall be paid at a rate of at least time and a half or an equivalent pro-rata time off in lieu. Nations shall remain free to set their allowable overtime hours lower and their overtime pay rates higher than specified in this proposal.

6. The 40 hour week shall be implemented in a manner that does not reduce the standard of living of the workers. Nations shall enact the laws needed to comply with the 40 hour week within 1 year of the passing of this resolution and they may phase in the changes over the course of up to 4 years. The necessary changes must be fully implemented within 5 years of the passing of this resolution.

7. In time of declared emergencies the national government may suspend this directive to any sector of the workforce it deems essential to the effective running of the country for the duration of that emergency.

Never liked the original resolution.

Especially as a Cobdenian week lasts 27 days...

Then I suggest adopting a four-day week.

Wait I'm Confused, What do you mean?

2. No one may be contractually obligated to work more than 40 hours per week

The employee is not required by any agreement signed with his/her employer to work more than 40 hrs/wk. They may have a verbal agreement that the employee can ask for overtime every week and be guaranteed it (heck, the guarantee of overtime could be in the original contract), but the employee would also have the right to refuse to work more than 40 hours in any given week. The power is with the employee, not the employer. The employer can force the employee to work the full 40hrs, but he can't force beyond that. All of a sudden, if the employee does not have control of the negotiations, he has all the power he needs to be treated fairly.

Request that you be a bit more specific when you ask general questions like "what do you mean?"

Anyway, here's the proposal. Voting ends later today so please do so now!

Yeah, it's dead anyway, but....

Description: UN Resolution #59: The 40 Hour Workweek (Category: Social Justice; Strength: Significant) shall be struck out and rendered null and void.

Argument: NOTING that The 40 hour work week act is a limiting the Freedom of being able to work the hours you choose to and effecting their income.

Better their freedom of ambition is limited so that the ambition of the employer can't abuse those that aren't that ambitious.....not to mention that I've already disputed this fact.

CONCERNED that because of this act, many people around the world now have a much lower income then they previously did because of restrictions on their freedom, and choice to work longer hours.

Not entirely true, and it does wonders at distributing the income a bit more equally

FURTHER CONSIDERING that because Bosses may force their employees to work more than 40 hours, a new resoloution will be in the making that says IT IS OKAY for Workers to choose to work longer than 40 hours but it IS NOT OKAY for Anyone to force employees to work longer than 40 hours, following the repeal of this act.

The employee is allowed to. Read my argument

So for the freedom of the workers and good of the ecomonomy, please repeal for the following reasons.

First, you mean "above" reasons

Second, no.

Never liked the original resolution.

Especially as a Cobdenian week lasts 27 days...
Xanthal too has an alternate time measurement system, but recognizes that the U.N. resolution is based on a standard week and has adjusted the numbers proportionally for its own purposes. With the thousands of U.N. nations hailing from different societies, worlds, and even time periods, some interpretation of the resolutions on a member-by-member basis is needed. That said, the premise of the 40 Hour Workweek is sound and we see no substantial reason to repeal it beyond, perhaps, that it assists in preventing employers from abusing their employees.

The employee is not required by any agreement signed with his/her employer to work more than 40 hrs/wk. They may have a verbal agreement that the employee can ask for overtime every week and be guaranteed it (heck, the guarantee of overtime could be in the original contract), but the employee would also have the right to refuse to work more than 40 hours in any given week. The power is with the employee, not the employer. The employer can force the employee to work the full 40hrs, but he can't force beyond that. All of a sudden, if the employee does not have control of the negotiations, he has all the power he needs to be treated fairly.

Request that you be a bit more specific when you ask general questions like "what do you mean?"



Yeah, it's dead anyway, but....



Better their freedom of ambition is limited so that the ambition of the employer can't abuse those that aren't that ambitious.....not to mention that I've already disputed this fact.



Not entirely true, and it does wonders at distributing the income a bit more equally



The employee is allowed to. Read my argument



First, you mean "above" reasons

Second, no.


Okay, Never mind. Kind of embarresed, I guess I didn't read it very carefully, I interpreted it wrong. Sorry. :headbang: