NationStates Jolt Archive

Getting the NS UN back into some form of reality, I present you with this offering, based on RL conventions on the subject:


International Salvage Laws, Catagory: Human Rights Strength: Mild
The NationStates United Nations,

RECOGNISING the need to build an international understanding on salvage laws;

NOTING that international salvage laws have yet to be defined by the NationStates United Nations;

AWARE of the benefit such laws would provide for salvage operations, both for the safety of the vessel, recovery personnel and environment, where the term 'salvage operation' is defined as any attempt to assist or otherwise retrieve a vessel in danger, or a vessel which has been abandoned/destroyed, in international waters, and further defining 'vessel' as any craft capable of navigation;

RECOMMENDS the following measures:

i) All personnel involved in a salvage operation shall take due care to avoid unnecessary risks to human health and not to damage the surrounding natural environment,

ii) When needed, salvors must co-operate with the salvage operations of other nations to ensure the upkeep of provision i),

iii) Every seafaring vessel must, by all practical means, assist any other stricken vessel unless the vessel poses any manner of threat to the salvors, including the potential risk of the salvage operation itself. The decision not to undertake a salvage operation on the grounds of safety is left to the discretion of the captain of the salvor vessel,

iv) Any vessel that encounters a stricken vessel must immediately contact their own nation of the salvor and the nation which owns the stricken vessel, or if the nation owning the stricken vessel is unknown, the nearest friendly nation to the salvage site may be contacted,

v) Sunken or otherwise disabled craft which have been designated as war graves are not eligible for salvage, unless explicitly stated by the nation which owned the craft at the time of its destruction. Any salvor breaking this clause shall be subject to the appropriate laws of the said nation,

vi) Any crewmen on board a salvageable vessel must co-operate fully with the salvors in order to ensure their own safety and the constitution of all involved vessels,

vii) Once a salvaged vessel has been safely retrieved the salvor must make arrangements to deliver the vessel to its rightful owner(s) as soon as is practically possible,

viii) Any salvaged vessel which has been deemed lost or otherwise irretrievable by the party originally owning said vessel, including a vessel which has been abandoned by its crew, shall be considered the property of the salvor. This clause also applies in the event that the original owner of the salvaged vessel cannot be found. To claim a salvaged vessel and its cargo, a salvor shall contact the nation where the vessels home port was located and the nation of the salvor and inform the relevant authorities that the salvaged vessel is to be considered property of the salvor, should all nations involved consent to the salvors request. In the event that the salvaged vessels home port is unknown, the nearest friendly nation to the salvage site may be contacted in substitution,

ix) Depending on the nature of the salvage operation and the skill and risk involved to the salvor, the salvor is entitled to appropriate payment for his/her services should the party owning the vessel seek to re-acquire it. Otherwise, clause viii applies,

x) This resolution shall only apply to international waters only. All United Nations member states hereby retain the right to govern their waterways as they deem fit, excepting where covered by the clauses of previous UN resolutions.

xi) Legal issues, including lawsuits, which occur as a result of events relating to salvage operations in international waters shall be referred to a court of law in nations including that of the owner (including lienholders or claimants to title) before the vessel became salvage, or the nationality of those claiming salvage rights, or nations whose waters are adjacent to the salvage location,

xii) Wrecks salvaged that are of legitimate historical interest are eligible to be claimed by the nation nearest to the salvage site provided the wreck is housed in a museum or put on another form of public display. A salvor is still entitled to compensation as stated in clause ix in this case. Salvors dealing in wrecks which have historical value are to receive specialist training in relevant archaeological techniques in order to prevent damage to the wreck. Additionally, professional archaeologists must be present at a salvage site of historical interest, and hereby have the authority to dismiss salvors acting in a manner which may needlessly damage the wreck.

Please, please, please tell me if any of this has been covered before.

Give me your opinions regardless.

Some random OOC comments as I can't seem to muster the energy to post in-character at the moment:

'elligable' should read 'eligible'

I dislike the use of 'his' and would prefer gender non-specific terminology.

I do like the proposal, but I'm not sure it should be Social Justice. That said, no other category seems to fit either... finally, I reckon the strength ought to be Mild.

Forgive any errors in wording, I'll fix them ASAP.

It's a tricky one to fit into catagories. It could also go in environmental, human rights, even free trade.

Glad to see it hasn't sparked instant animosity, but please keep your comments coming.

I'll pick it apart when I get home

Getting the NS UN back into reality,

Never heard of this place reality. Is it a nation or a region?

I present you with this offering, based on RL conventions on the subject:

Ok

International Salvage Laws, Catagory: Social Justice (?) Strength: Mild
The NationStates United Nations,

Name and category seem odd, we'll see

RECOGNISING the need to build an international understanding on salvage laws;

NOTING that international salvage laws have yet to be defined by the United Nations;

I'd use "this United Nations" or "the Nation States United Nations", but that's just me

AWARE of the benefit such laws would provide for salvage operations, both for the safety of the vessal, recovery personel and environment, where the term 'salvage operation' is defined as any attempt to assist a vessel in danger in international waters, and further defining 'vessel' as any craft capable of navigation;

So this is a rescue operation of both craft and personnel?

RECOMMENDS the following measures:

i) All personel involved in a salvage operation shall take due care not to damage the surrounding natural environment and avoid unecessary risks to human health,

ii) When needed, salvors must co-operate with the salvage operations of other nations to ensure the upkeep of provision i),

Should it be "salvagers"?

iii) Every seafaring vessel must, by all practical means, assist any other striken vessel so long as the striken vessel is not of a military nature, or otherwises poses any other manner of threat to the salvors,

iv) Sunken or otherwise disabled craft which have been designated as war graves are not eligible for salvage, unless expliciltly stated by the nation which owned the craft at the time of its destruction. Any salvor breaking this clause shall be subject to the appropriate laws of the said nation.

v) Any crewmen on board a salvagable vessel must co-operate fully with the salvors in order to ensure their own safety and the constitution of the vessel,

vi) Once a salvaged vessel has been safely retrieved the salvor must make arrangements to deliver the vessel to its rightful owner(s) as soon as is practically possible,

vii) Any salvaged vessal which has been deemed lost or otherwise irretrievable by the party originally owning said vessal shall be considered the property of the salvor,

viii) Depending on the nature of the salvage operation and the skill and risk involved to the salvor, the salvor is entitled to appropriate payment for his/her services should the party owning the vessel seek to re-acquire it. Otherwise, clause vii applies.

ix) This resolution shall only apply to international waters only. All United Nations member states hereby retain the right to govern their waterways as they deem fit, with the exception the clauses of previous UN resolutions.

*cringes* I'm not sure the UN is considered to have jurisdiction over International Waters

Could probably do with a lot more work. Please, please, please tell me if any of this has been covered before.

Give me your opinions regardless.

Not covered, no, but illegal, maybe.

Oh - I will definately say this is not Social Justice. I would guess Free Trade, though there is also the possibility of Human Rights

Oh - I will definately say this is not Social Justice. I would guess Free Trade, though there is also the possibility of Human Rights

First off, I love this idea, and when it gets closer to being finished, I'll pitch in on the telegramming campaign here. :)

Second, on a quick glance, Free Trade seems good to me as well. Let's ask Euro, Fris, or Hack to look it over for proper categorization when we get a cleaner draft ready.

Sydia, great to see you back!!!!

ix) This resolution shall only apply to international waters only. All United Nations member states hereby retain the right to govern their waterways as they deem fit, with the exception the clauses of previous UN resolutions.

Changed the bolded parts to:
ix) This resolution shall apply to international waters only. All United Nations member states hereby retain the right to govern their waterways as they deem fit, excepting where covered by the clauses of previous UN resolutions.

I like it. It probably should be free trade, although I agree that it doesn't fit neatly into any one category.

*cringes* I'm not sure the UN is considered to have jurisdiction over International Waters.
Pretty sure it does.

Oceanic Waste Dumping (http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=7029700&postcount=35)
Ballast Water (http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=7030116&postcount=53)
The Law of the Sea (http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=7079975&postcount=75)

There may be others, these were just the first ones which came to mind.

Pretty sure it does.

Oceanic Waste Dumping (http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=7029700&postcount=35)
Ballast Water (http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=7030116&postcount=53)
The Law of the Sea (http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=7079975&postcount=75)

There may be others, these were just the first ones which came to mind.

*nod*
Mitigation of Large Reservoirs

Also bear in mind that all of the air pollution / green house gase resolutions are based upon the concept that "air" does not recognize national boundaries and is a shared resource.

The point can be made that the justification for the UN coming up with salvage rights / regulations in international water is to reduce the likihood of conflicts *or* to improve the ease of salvage operations by coming up with standards.

One could even look at rescue missions as a tangent ... the Russian sub that was stranded would not have been rescued if not for the aid of the British. While standardization may *not* have been a critical factor, I think knowing how to free the sub from the fishing net and the ability to quickly respond might have been enhanced by some sort of simple knowledge of what those nets were like. The bottom line is just starting a dialog could prove benefical.

One could even look at rescue missions as a tangent ... the Russian sub that was stranded would not have been rescued if not for the aid of the British. While standardization may *not* have been a critical factor, I think knowing how to free the sub from the fishing net and the ability to quickly respond might have been enhanced by some sort of simple knowledge of what those nets were like. The bottom line is just starting a dialog could prove benefical.
Thanks for your support Mikitivity, the business involving the Russian sub was actually what spurred me to write the resolution.

@Forgottenlands:
Salvor would be the correct word to use in this case;

sal·vor Audio pronunciation of "salvor" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (slvr)
n.

1. One who salvages or assists in salvaging a ship or its cargo.
2. A ship used in salvage.

salvor

n : someone who salvages

Numerous other resolutions have also established precedent for the jurisdiction of the UN over international waters, as helpfully pointed out by Yeldan and Mikitivity.

I'll edit in some suggested improvements, including defining the term 'salvage' used in this resolution to be both a rescue operation and to recover a vessel.

I'd like to see the addition of dealing with the salavage of antiquities. Infact thats one of the biggest debates when it comes to salvage. I feel archaeologists should be present at any wreck suspected to be over a age (I'd suggest around 50 - 80 years, depending how liberal/conservative you want to be). I'd also push for all salvage divers at such wrecks complete an archaeology field school (which usually runs between 1 to 3 months in length depending if they go full or part time), that the PI (principle investigator, usually someone with a PHD in archaeology) have the ability to kick off any salavage workers they feel are operating unprofessionaly and might endanger the antiquities being recovered.

Any antiquities of course would be put into musuems, for public viewing and educating the public. I'd recommend that the things found be returned to the country of the ships owners, or if that country no longer be in existance, the country closest to the site of the wreck.

These are all recomendations of course, but things to be considered when dealing with salvage as many ancient crafts have been recovered, and their educational and cultural value should be acessable to the public and not to private individuals. Afterall the property recovered could be argued to be the original owner/ their descendents/ the company they worked for, the country that sent the ship, the country who's water (unless international water) the ship was in, the people that recovered it. In theory the stuff could be the descendents of the owners, however the government could tax them for land/sea use and argueably littering, and the salvagers could charge a salvage fee.

I think it would be much better if the country who the ship belonged to, or who's shores it sank nearest, have claim to what was salavaged to prevent a very messy court case.

Sorry to step on toes here, but some of this relates to the previous post...

Clause viii has been changed since the above post was last updated, and a new clause, xi was added. These changes took place on The North Pacific Forums:

viii) Any salvaged vessel which has been deemed lost or otherwise irretrievable by the party originally owning said vessel shall be considered the property of the salvor. This clause also applies in the event that the original owner of the salvaged vessel cannot be found. To claim a salvaged vessel, a salvor shall contact the nation where the vessels home port was located and the nation of the salvor and inform the relevant authorities that the salvaged vessel is to be considered property of the salvor, should all nations involved consent to the salvors request. In the event that the salvaged vessels home port is unknown, the nearest friendly nation to the salvage site may be contacted in substitution.
xi) Legal issues, including lawsuits, which occur as a result of events relating to salvage operations in international waters shall be referred to a neutral court of law.

All bold text is new.

Is this resolution meant to apply to wrecks that have been settled at the bottom of the sea for a length of time before a salvor gets to it, and if so where does the issue of gold/silver otherwise known as Treasure Trove fit in? Perhaps finders keepers maybe or belongs to the nation the vessel belongs to?

The Ambassador Plenipontiary.

Is this resolution meant to apply to wrecks that have been settled at the bottom of the sea for a length of time before a salvor gets to it, and if so where does the issue of gold/silver otherwise known as Treasure Trove fit in? Perhaps finders keepers maybe or belongs to the nation the vessel belongs to?

The Ambassador Plenipontiary.
I've added a bit which states that the cargo of the vessel is to be claimed in the same manner as the vessel itself.

@ The Goblin - thanks for your input. I've added a clause which hopefully deals with this issue.

I've added a bit which states that the cargo of the vessel is to be claimed in the same manner as the vessel itself.

@ The Goblin - thanks for your input. I've added a clause which hopefully deals with this issue.

Thank you for including that in your bill, that was my primary worry with the bill, certainly there will be arguements over what is considered a 'legitimate' historical claim... but honestly I'd rather let that be argued as the wrecks occur, because trying to put any specific year on it would be hard, considering that some things are historic for their actual age, and some for their importance even if a recent occurance.

No problem. The potential flaw in putting in the clause was that nations could claim every salvaged vessel has 'historical value'. Hopefully including the word 'legitimate' and the provision about putting any wrecks claimed as historical artifacts on public display will stop this.

I'm thinking of submitting the proposal soon, so if anyone else has anything to say about it better be quick.

Syd, will you need help with TG campaigns?

If you do need help, I'd be willing to campaign on behalf of this proposal.

Yes, I will indeed. Thank you for your offers Hers and Ynys Dywyll, much appreciated.

Edit: 1007 characters too long! I'll edit it so the meaning remains the same.

While trimming, you can change:

"NOTING that international salvage laws have yet to be defined by the NationStates United Nations;"

To:

"NOTING that international salvage laws have yet to be defined by the UN;"

You have the full name in the "The NationStates United Nations" line at top. Cutting down on "United Nations" to just "UN" will save you a few characters. :)

Here's the clipped version, all the provisions are still intact:

The UN,

RECOGNISING the need to build an international understanding on salvage laws;

NOTING that international salvage laws have yet to be defined by the UN;

AWARE of the benefit such laws would provide for salvage operations;

RECOMMENDS the following measures:

1) All personnel involved in a salvage operation shall take due care to avoid unnecessary risks to human health and not to damage the surrounding environment,

2) When needed, salvors must co-operate with the salvage operations of other nations to ensure the upkeep of 1),

3) Every vessel must, by all practical means, assist any other stricken vessel unless the vessel poses any threat to the salvors, including the potential risk of the salvage operation itself. The decision not to undertake a salvage operation on the grounds of safety is left to the captain of the salvor vessel,

4) Any vessel that encounters a stricken vessel must immediately contact their own nation of the salvor and the nation which owns the stricken vessel, or if the nation owning the stricken vessel is unknown, the nearest friendly nation to the salvage site,

5) Vessels which have been designated war graves are not eligible for salvage, unless explicitly stated by the nation which owned the craft at the time of its destruction. Any salvor breaking this clause shall be subject to the appropriate laws of said nation,

6) Any crewmen on board a salvageable vessel must co-operate fully with the salvors in order to ensure their own safety and the safety of all involved vessels,

7) Once a salvaged vessel has been safely retrieved the salvor must make arrangements to deliver the vessel to its rightful owner as soon as possible,

8) Any salvaged vessel which has been lost or otherwise deemed irretrievable by the party originally owning it shall be considered the property of the salvor. A salvor shall contact the nation where the vessels home port was located and the nation of the salvor and inform the relevant authorities that the salvaged vessel and cargo is to be considered property of the salvor, should all nations consent. In the event that the salvaged vessels home port is unknown, the nearest friendly nation to the site may be contacted,

9) Depending on the nature of the salvage operation and the skill and risk involved to the salvor, the salvor is entitled to payment for his/her services should the party owning the vessel seek to re-acquire it,

10) This resolution shall only apply to international waters only. All UN members retain the right to govern their waterways, excepting where covered by the clauses of previous UN resolutions,

11) Legal issues arising from salvage operations in international waters shall be referred to a court of law in nations including that of the owner before the vessel became salvage, or the nationality of those claiming salvage rights, or nations whose waters are adjacent to the salvage site,

12) Salvage that is of legitimate historical interest is eligible to be claimed by the nation nearest to the salvage site provided the wreck is put on public display. A salvor is still entitled to compensation in this case. Salvors dealing in wrecks which have historical value must receive training in archaeological techniques in order to prevent damage to the wreck. Professional archaeologists must be present at a salvage site of historical interest, and have the authority to dismiss salvors needlessly harming the wreck.

This is the version that has been submitted. Please tell your UN delegate to approve it!

Oh, Mik, you are still around... <_<

Anyway, please make sure you post the text back here before you submit!
See above, Hers!

See above, Hers!
Gaak! Sorry, must have posted at the same time... I'll go delete that.

Approved

Many thanks.

UN delegates! Clicky here (http://www.nationstates.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/page=UN_proposal1/match=international%20salvage%20laws) to view (and hopefuly approve) the proposal.

approved