NationStates Jolt Archive

Definition of a MAN and a WOMAN

A MAN is born with a PENIS and has MALE reproductive organs.

A WOMAN is born with a VAGINA and has FEMALE reproductive organs.

A MAN who removes his PENIS or other MALE organs is still a MALE

A WOMAN who removes her VAGINA or other FEMALE organs is still a FEMALE

The Kingdom of JohnyChevy would like to protect our nations rights to define a man and a woman. Current legislation in the works could put these rights in grave danger. Please support our fine Kingdom in the request.

King JohnyChevy

Denied

1) I fully support the Transgender rights proposal that is currently circulating through the UN
2) You fail to consider issues outside the human species (and yes, there are member nations that have non-human sentient species)
3) You define man and woman rather than male and female
4) You fail to consider asexual reproduction and those species that use it
5) You fail to consider species that have both sets of organs
6) You fail to consider situations where there are mixed organs....weird mutations have been known to occur
7) You fail to consider situations of XXX, XXY, XYY which and their implications on (in particular) sporting events amongst other things traditionally divided between men and women

As such, I refuse to support your proposal and urge other nations to likewise not support it.

Why the hell does the UN need to define what a man and woman are?

Color me against for the usual national sovereignty reasons.

Minister of UN Affairs
Edward Jones

Why the hell does the UN need to define what a man and woman are?Obviously because we haven't done so yet :)

Color me against for the usual national sovereignty reasons.
Me too, that and it's just a bloody stupid proposal.

Bob Flibble
UN Representative

Agreed (I must be going soft, this is the third time this week I've disagreed with a proposal on national soveringnty grounds :D).

Besides a persons gender is decided by whats between the ears, not whats between the legs.

Agreed (I must be going soft, this is the third time this week I've disagreed with a proposal on national soveringnty grounds :D).

OOC: Yessss, we're converting them to our cause. Mwahahaha! ;)

Besides a persons gender is decided by whats between the ears, not whats between the legs.

Our non-human members may not have either ears or legs, so even that definition would be problematic...

Minister of UN Affairs
Edward Jones

Agreed (I must be going soft, this is the third time this week I've disagreed with a proposal on national soveringnty grounds :D).

Besides a persons gender is decided by whats between the ears, not whats between the legs.


I take offense to this my nose may be long but it's not what makes me male..

No support here.

Mathieu Vergniaud
Deputy Speaker to the UN

This would be a serious blow to our nation's transgender and intersex populations, so, no, we do not support you, and instead choose to support the civil rights of our populace.

A MAN is born with a PENIS and has MALE reproductive organs.A statement of fact.

A WOMAN is born with a VAGINA and has FEMALE reproductive organs.Another statement of fact. Well done! I can see you excelled in the biology class.

A MAN who removes his PENIS or other MALE organs is still a MALEThis as a fact is undeniable. However, If all traces of a mans reproductive system are removed and he has that area reconstructed to be in effect a vagina, and then procedes to call him self Gladys and takes hormones to effect increase his boob size then clearly he has become a she!

A WOMAN who removes her VAGINA or other FEMALE organs is still a FEMALE Take my last comment, restructure so it applies to a woman changing to a man and bingo, bango, bongo! she has become he!

Your proposal, is based on your own personal bias and stinks of "yes I agree with affording People Human rights so long as I can control who has those rights."
I will not EVER support you on this matter.
Good Day,
Prince Esheram Byron.

I do not want a woman who removed all woman body parts and add male parts should come into the mens room. I also dont think a male should go into the womans room.

Those that we born with both parts are exempt from this law, and those that were born without any of these parts are exempt. My law is to define those that were born either a man or woman.

The Kingdom of Retrostalgia voices it's support for KIng JohnChevy in his plea to the U.N. to allow his country the dignity of self determination.
Originally posted by Venerable libertarians
Your proposal, is based on your own personal bias and stinks of "yes I agree with affording People Human rights so long as I can control who has those rights."
Kind sir,
All proposal are written from a personal bias and you yourself are guilty of this accusation. You and others like you love to hand out rights and freedoms except to ward those with whom you disagree. Where is the freedom for King JohnChevy, where is the freedom for his country to decide what is best for all it's citizenry.
For Retrostalgia's part, the Father is only concerned about this issue when it comes to affecting our economy. But we certainly support King JohnChevy's right and his country's right to the freedom of self determination.
Respectfully
Minister of the @#^!% Gay Stuff
Tony Randall

Thank you for your kind words Minister Randall. I am glad I can count on your for support. I should create a resolution allowing man to modify themselves to be dogs and then force the UN nations to take them on walks every 3 hours. I'm sure the liberal nations in here would have a tiny O if they saw something like that.

King JOhnyChevy

I do not want a woman who removed all woman body parts and add male parts should come into the mens room. I also dont think a male should go into the womans room.

Those that we born with both parts are exempt from this law, and those that were born without any of these parts are exempt. My law is to define those that were born either a man or woman.

Pfft

Who here has accidentally gone into the wrong bathroom before?
Who here has been caught in the wrong bathroom before (whether there accidentally or on purpose)?
Who here has or knows someone who's been laid in a public restroom before? In most cases, one would assume that at least one of the two was in the wrong bathroom (and I can certainly imagine situations where it would be preferable for both to be in the wrong bathroom.....two male engineering students might prefer to use the women's bathroom....)
Who here honestly checks each stall to see if the person in it is man or woman?
Who here would actually notice if the person in the stall next to them was not the same gender?
Who here would be more disturbed by a person that looks like they're the opposite sex was using the sink next to them than by what was between their legs in the next stall over?

Definition of a MAN and a WOMAN

A MAN is born with a PENIS and has MALE reproductive organs.

A WOMAN is born with a VAGINA and has FEMALE reproductive organs.

A MAN who removes his PENIS or other MALE organs is still a MALE

A WOMAN who removes her VAGINA or other FEMALE organs is still a FEMALE
So what is a woman with a penis? Simply gorgeous!
(I apologize to men with vaginas for not mentionning them, but my sexual preferences are what they are ;-)) :fluffle:

Pfft

Who here has accidentally gone into the wrong bathroom before?
Who here has been caught in the wrong bathroom before (whether there accidentally or on purpose)?
Who here has or knows someone who's been laid in a public restroom before? In most cases, one would assume that at least one of the two was in the wrong bathroom (and I can certainly imagine situations where it would be preferable for both to be in the wrong bathroom.....two male engineering students might prefer to use the women's bathroom....)
Who here honestly checks each stall to see if the person in it is man or woman?
Who here would actually notice if the person in the stall next to them was not the same gender?
Who here would be more disturbed by a person that looks like they're the opposite sex was using the sink next to them than by what was between their legs in the next stall over?

Would you want your teenage daughter to go into the bathroom, only to have a Man sitting there waiting to listen to the sounds of pee? Think about that one.

Why cant there be things that are for MEN and things that are for WOMEN? Why do women always have to join the secret clubs of men?

Why cant there be things that are for MEN and things that are for WOMEN? Why do women always have to join the secret clubs of men?
You honestly think that women are interested in mens secret club things? I'm afraid they just are if they want to have a good laugh.
As for the men hiding in womens toilets just to listen to their sweet sounding erotic pee ... Are you out of your mind?

This started off as a fairly humdrum statement of social conservatism but seems to have degenerated into a raging indictment of, er, toilet practices. Would King JohnyChevy like a valium?

It's a bit odd that JohnyChevy appears to be attempting to define a man and a woman upon the basis of sexual organs when there are many, many people with intersex conditions...

It's a bit odd that JohnyChevy appears to be attempting to define a man and a woman upon the basis of sexual organs when there are many, many people with intersex conditions...
And you didn't see me naked up to this point ...

And you didn't see me naked up to this point ...

...and how can you be sure of that...?

There are a bunch of disgusting people in here.

There are a bunch of disgusting people in here.
And it only took you about a month to figure that out.:D

Bob Flibble
UN Representative

Would you want your teenage daughter to go into the bathroom, only to have a Man sitting there waiting to listen to the sounds of pee? Think about that one.

Honestly don't care.

Why cant there be things that are for MEN and things that are for WOMEN? Why do women always have to join the secret clubs of men?

Huh?

There are a bunch of disgusting people in here.

Firstly, I was joking.

Secondly, if Cally24 was born with both male and female sexual organs (and some people are) would you consider that disgusting? If so, why? It's a perfectly natural condition.

Firstly, I was joking.

Secondly, if Cally24 was born with both male and female sexual organs (and some people are) would you consider that disgusting? If so, why? It's a perfectly natural condition.

No, that is a natural condition. I am wanting to make sure that those that are born male, cannot claim the same type of gender based access and privileges that a woman can if they change their gender later on in life. Those that are born with gender-restrictive conditions are not what the law is talking about.

What a load of right-wing nonsense. For a sensible view on the very complex matter of sex definition, I suggest that everyone direct themselves towards the text of the "Gender Equality Act".

Leonard Otterby
Ambassador of the Republic of Compadria to the U.N.

Long live open-minded Compadria!

And may the blessings of our otters be upon you all

No, that is a natural condition. I am wanting to make sure that those that are born male, cannot claim the same type of gender based access and privileges that a woman can if they change their gender later on in life. Those that are born with gender-restrictive conditions are not what the law is talking about.

Fair enough...then what of the recognition of the majority of the medical community that transsexuality is a medical condition, whereby it has been demonstrated that many transsexuals born as male (for example) have brains that display the properties of female rather than male brains?

The Kingdom of Retrostalgia voices it's support for KIng JohnChevy in his plea to the U.N. to allow his country the dignity of self determination.


What about the rest of us and our self determination. Should we be forced to consider his the only defining factors in ones sexual gender. I agree we all should have a choice to see man as man and woman as woman anyway we do... thus others should respect us if a woman is the one with the penis and the man has the babies. That issue I could see but to define man and woman period when we all know there are many different views on what is man and what is woman as the UN membership is made up of varied species with their own sexual classes.

I would agrue how do you consider Sage, Seer, Sire genders that are found in some nations with three sexes. So suggest you find an old UN BIO 101 book and check it out.. There should be one on file in the UN Library. Oops forgot they closed that for offices for some new committee so would have no idea where one might find a copy of the UN BIO 101.

Whilst the government of Telidia will not be able to support your proposal I would like to request from the honourable member and explanation on this statement.

I am wanting to make sure that those that are born male, cannot claim the same type of gender based access and privileges that a woman can if they change their gender later on in life.

Why should individuals who have undergone gender re-assignment not be afforded the right to change their birth sex? I’d like to understand what your government’s objection to this is. After all we feel it has been proven that an individual’s sex is not necessarily identified by their physical birth sex

Respectfully
Lydia Cornwall, UN Ambassador
Office of UN Relations, Dept for Foreign Affairs
HM Government of Telidia

While I'm not a fan of transgender situations, and in any case would agree that a man is always a man, and woman is always a woman, I can't force my religious beliefs onto those of my nation. And while I don't agree with what the people are doing, I refuse to take away their rights as human beings.

Secondly, if Cally24 was born with both male and female sexual organs (and some people are) would you consider that disgusting? If so, why? It's a perfectly natural condition.

Thank you for you kind words ... I tell you, it isn't easy every day.

This is retarded. Use common sense.

Believe that this one in form violates part of an existing proposal...

UNITED NATIONS RESOLUTION #69

The Sexes Rights Law
A resolution to reduce income inequality and increase basic welfare.
5. The Nation States United Nations recognises that gender is not just a physical manifestation but also a mental manifestation, and recognises that people of self proclaimed gender are also equally protected by the regulations and recommendations bound here in.


As this clearly says the NSUN recognises that gender (man and woman are in there) as not just physical manifestation (penis vagina) but also mental manifestation... so if they think they man or woman (self proclaimed gender) then the NSUN also does and inculdes them under R #69. So now how can we stick one in that only give the physical manifestations and leave out the mental manifestations when condidering man and woman.. or forget that if they say they are man or woman (self proclaimed) then they are..

Are we now forgetting R #69.. which to my knowledge has not been repealed and is still in effect.. Thus would validate my own nations three genders... Sage, Seer, and Sire.. as these are self (national) proclaimed genders.. which would be defined by more than what this one does to set them as such.

This NEW proposal would not do that but leave out our third gender.. In RL anyone with both sex organs or none at all.. or that for whatever reason had them changed.. or lost them.

This NEW proposal would not do that but leave out our third gender.. In RL anyone with both sex organs or none at all.. or that for whatever reason had them changed.. or lost them.
LOST THEM? ... Well ... the poor chap ...
Now, can we get back to that public toilet thing please?
:rolleyes:

Would you want your teenage daughter to go into the bathroom, only to have a Man sitting there waiting to listen to the sounds of pee? Think about that one.
<Thinks about that one......>
Let me try to understand this. You believe that there are men who would put themselves through a sex change operation just so they could then hang out in womens restrooms?

I've gotta ask - who here actually pays attention to the sounds in the stall next to them and uses that to try and determine whether or not their listening to a man or woman urinate?

:raises hand slowly:

:eek:

I've gotta ask - who here actually pays attention to the sounds in the stall next to them and uses that to try and determine whether or not their listening to a man or woman urinate?
That's a scary thought.

:raises hand slowly:
And that even scarier.:D

I've gotta ask - who here actually pays attention to the sounds in the stall next to them and uses that to try and determine whether or not their listening to a man or woman urinate?

Well, if you never ventured into a male bathroom. There is normally one stall, and a 5 or 6 Urinals. And if you haven't noticed, Urinals are open toilets.

Also, for all of those self conscience women who go into their restroom to pick their teeth, and "gussy up", all of the sudden there is a male wearing a dress next to them.

While the whole concept is a bit silly, there are still some people that would feel uncomfortable. And I'd rather make four "real" men and women comfortable, then one transgender male or female.

This proposal made me laugh so hard...

Your defining a man as a person with male reproductive organs...

BUT YOU HAVEN"T DEFINED WHICH REPRODUCTIVE ORGANS ARE MALE!!! THAT WHAT THE RESOLUTION IS DOING!!!!

This has great potential, but this is a joke...

Why the **** would this even be on this furum? It is completly pointless!

:raises hand slowly:

:eek:


Also raise hand slow but keeps one on nose.... :rolleyes: not :eek:

Well, if you never ventured into a male bathroom. There is normally one stall, and a 5 or 6 Urinals. And if you haven't noticed, Urinals are open toilets.

Um.....I wonder how many women pretending to be men actually use the urinals?

Also, for all of those self conscience women who go into their restroom to pick their teeth, and "gussy up", all of the sudden there is a male wearing a dress next to them.

And if they couldn't tell it was a guy.....?

While the whole concept is a bit silly, there are still some people that would feel uncomfortable. And I'd rather make four "real" men and women comfortable, then one transgender male or female.

I'd claim that they'll probably be ignorant of the true gender of the person using the sink next to them - if the person in the next sink over has gone through a sex-change operation.

I'd claim that they'll probably be ignorant of the true gender of the person using the sink next to them - if the person in the next sink over has gone through a sex-change operation.

The Republic of Libertaville has said time and time again. If a transgender person goes through a sex-change then their new sex will be recognized. It's just those who have not gone through the sex change process, that my country does not recognize as "real".

Personally, I would feel more uncomfortable with a gay man looking over my shoulder (not bashing) than a woman who became a man. In both cases it would be irrelevant because I would not know or particularly care about the other person's past and present sexual status. Unless you propose to ban homosexuals or African-Americans for others to be "comfortable", don't claim that you are protecting any majority's rights.

This is a pointless and idiotic proposial. We fail to see any need for the UN to define the genders this was and in fact find this whole thing to be rather offensive. We would never support this.


Grand Duke Arthur Hendrik representing the Dominion of Yrneh

The Republic of Libertaville has said time and time again. If a transgender person goes through a sex-change then their new sex will be recognized. It's just those who have not gone through the sex change process, that my country does not recognize as "real".

Um.....explain that to the guy who proposed this resolution.

Ok, let's say someone has had hormonal changes, but hasn't had their genitals changed - would you still be comfortable with a guy who's all done in makeup with D-cup breasts washing his hands next to you looking VERY much like a woman?

I also note the point about gay people being the bigger concern - but how are we to know?

Hey, I just thought about something ...
Did anyone see that movie with Arnold Schwarzenegger, "Kindergardencop"? There is this scene where a little boy who's father is a gynecologist introduces himself by saying: "Boys got a penis and girls have a vagina!" He was oh so cute!
Now, I was thinking: Johny Chevy, is/was your father also a gynecologist? It would certainly give you some credit, you being some kind of a specialist ... :rolleyes:

Forgottenland wrote:
I also note the point about gay people being the bigger concern - but how are we to know?
Well, you know, there are these people with this oh so special a talent. They can just tell by looking at you! :eek:

Ah, and another thing. I just noticed that I'm not considered as "new" anymore in here. Yes girls and boys and ... whatever of the UN: I am now officially a "member". Thought this was the right threat to announce that. :D

Hey, I just thought about something ...
Did anyone see that movie with Arnold Schwarzenegger, "Kindergardencop"? There is this scene where a little boy who's father is a gynecologist introduces himself by saying: "Boys got a penis and girls have a vagina!" He was oh so cute!
Now, I was thinking: Johny Chevy, is/was your father also a gynecologist? It would certainly give you some credit, you being some kind of a specialist ... :rolleyes:

Forgottenland wrote:

Well, you know, there are these people with this oh so special a talent. They can just tell by looking at you! :eek:

Ah, and another thing. I just noticed that I'm not considered as "new" anymore in here. Yes girls and boys and ... whatever of the UN: I am now officially a "member". Thought this was the right threat to announce that. :D

Yep - I actually recognize your name now. Congrats!

Moses Land will not support a proposal that it sees as unnecissary. It seems to care more about defining peoples behavior in the bathroom then equality or fairness.

A MAN is born with a PENIS and has MALE reproductive organs.

A WOMAN is born with a VAGINA and has FEMALE reproductive organs.

Oh, wow, look at that, he finally figured it out! He's ready for intelligence level two. Maybe by level eight he'll have the smarts to be embarrassed about what he wrote.

Sorry, that was unproductive of me. Here:

Definition of Female: characteristic of or peculiar to a woman

So a woman has female reproductive organs because she is a woman and therefore has female reproductive organs because...

Now we step back and wait for him to explode.

:cowers behind plastic tarp:

Ladies and Gentlemen,
I think JohnyChevy just left the building!

*roaring applaus from the assembly*

Definition of a MAN and a WOMAN

Is this necessary? I see no international nor interstellar reasons for such a set of definitions.


A MAN is born with a PENIS and has MALE reproductive organs.

A WOMAN is born with a VAGINA and has FEMALE reproductive organs.


Problematic Situation #1: Turner's Syndrom.
- Turner's Syndrom is a genetic defect whereby the last chromosome is missing, described genetically as "XO" ("O" denoting the missing chromosome). Typically born with a Vagina, but lacking any functional gonads (ovaries or testes) amongst human populations. Therefore such is denied status as a WOMAN or MAN under this bias; though posessing a VAGINA, lacks FEMALE reproductive organs and denied status as "WOMAN"; and since has neither PENIS nor "MALE reproductive organs" lacks status as "MAN"; and can effectively be denied rights.... Thus, from this situation the CRoT denies support of the resolution for its inability to cope with an existing situation in this regard.

Problematic Situation #2: CAIS (Complete Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome)
- CAIS is a genetic defect whereby a devolping human "male" possesses complete resistance (and is completely non-reactive) to the presence of testosterone. While chromosomally male (XY), with testes; like all homo sapiens, develop and (thus because of the CAIS) remain FEMALE in structure with a vagina and all normal external female genetalia; though lacking a uterus or ovaries. Since they possess "MALE reproductive organs" but lack a "PENIS" they are not categorized under definition of "MALE" by proposal; having a developed "VAGINA" though lacking "FEMALE reproductive organs" they are not categorized under definition of "FEMALE" of said proposal.... Since the proposal cannot cope with existing situation in this regard; the CRoT denies support.

- The above illustrates merely the problematic situation that exists within the realm of Homo Sapien Sapien special concerns regarding to syndromes and other genetic anomalies that occur within significant minorities of the Human Population of Terra/Earth and other similar off-shoots of said planet/civilization.

Since the proposal cannot cope with all valid natural situations arrising amongst Homo Sapient populations of Terra/Earth or her outlying colonies nor descendant civilizations; it cannot also be expected to encompass the mulitude of sentient races found throughout neighboring systems of this Galaxy, or even neighboring galaxies composed of majoirty non-human, a- or trans-sexual humanoid hermaphroditic, or many other exotic forms found amongst other sentient races of the universe; or Construct life amongst many civilizations of such as well.....

Thus, the Legislature of the Republic of Tekania, in representation of the several Dominions and Systems of this great Republic, representing the Tekanious (Tekanians), Pithekos (Humans), Pyretikos (Silicates) and Kataskuesma (Construct A.I.s) as citizens of this Republic; categorally deny support and firmly oppose the definitions espoused in this proposal as being un-realistic, and lacking competence to handle situations which exist across member nations, member-states, and member-worlds of these United Nations.

I can think of two resolutions you would have to repeal (#26, and #53 to start) just to pass such a proposal. If you wish to pass it good luck, but I doubt you will get much support repealing those.

The issue of civil rights for those who choose to change, alter, or mutilate their gender (the sex they were born as) affects the entire population of the nation/region (and all who fall subject to laws and/or rights) in more than one way. To legally define what constitutes a man or a woman would, in turn, limit the rights of different categories of citizens under various laws and regulations. For example, the definition of a man or woman would effect marital rights and status. Would a man who had surgically and medically "become a woman" be legally permitted to marry another man (naturally so or not)? Questions such as this would also lead to controversial subjects such as gay marriage rights, adoption rights (pertaining to homosexual relationships), allowing homosexuals and/or transvestites into certain organizations such as the military, and many other debated subjects. Fact: If a person can legally transform themselves into the opposite sex (surgically at least), the idea of a relationship between two people (intimately speaking) would be redefined. Not only would many other legislatures be effected and brought up for re-examination, but the economy and population would suffer as well. The mutation of human bodies and intercourse of same-sex or altered persons would rapidly inflame the spread of problems and diseases such as HIV and other STD's. Therefore, government funding for cures and treatment would most likely be altered as well, which could create a problematic shift in spending and the economy. Also, other values that might have served as grounds for basic government and rule of a nation could be drastically altered as the family unit deformed and adopted new policies to allow such behavior and circumstances as homosexualism. In conclusion, many many other problems will arise from the decision of whether or not the UN, a region, nation, or any other ruling organization can legally define what makes a man or a woman. Since such following topics tend to be highly debated and met with strong emotions and opposition, it would be wiser for all if such decisions were left to more personal forms of governments (individual nations). Therefore, I do not support giving the UN the power to dictate such laws. It would create far too much disagreement and tension within the council.

Submitted by the Prime Minister of Barad-Du (located in the Region of Middle Earth)

Actually this proposal would not effect the present DOM...

Since the DOM specifically defines marriage "as the civil joining of a member of any nation with any other member of any nation, regardless of sex, gender, race, religion, sexual orientation, color, or any other characteristic, with the exception of age..."

Also reiterated in the Discrimination Accord: "The UN condemns discrimination by governments, discrimination on the basis of differences in recognized religion, race, sex, sexual orientation, age, language, school of thought, or intelligence."

Furthermore under the Sexes Rights Law: " Equal benefits for all sexes.
The above conditions are recommendations applicable within reason in that they are open to interpretation by a member states legal system in regards to each individual case, under the condition that the legal system must act in an un-biased fashion in regard to these cases."

Also Rights of Minorities and Women: " Males and Females should be treated as equals. Whether it be in the workplace or at home."

And Fairness and Equality: "In the exercise of any power, the United Nations, and every agency, organization and officer thereof, acting on the behalf thereof, or acting with the authority thereof, shall fairly, evenly, and appropriately exercise such power when interacting with any person or government, without regard to the race, ethnicity, gender, of any person or any political consideration (including, but not limited to, the outcome of any conflict, or the ideology of any government)."

As such, defining any term regardant in biology or characteristic as composing "sex" or "gender" in the form of "MALE" and "FEMALE" can, by present law, in no way allow for the discrimination against any particular persons within UN member-state governments.

The Constitutional Republic of Tekania, opposes this proposal on grounds of inapplicability to all situations regarding sex or gender as limited specifically to homo sapien sapiens of Terra (Earth) and other such offshoot hominid descent races as found amongst the stars (humanoids); and denies the right of self-definition and self-disposition of member-states in composition of non humanoid species in defining the class or type in gender or sex of members of those species by their own classifications as such; or indeed of the differentiation in lable applied to hermaphroditic and other such species humanoid or not.

The Republic of Bayzbollistan does not feel that such a resolution is necessary, but completely agrees with the definitions of a male and a female and that regardless of what an individual may do to themselves to change their sex, they are still the sex they were born as.

God (or whatever you believe in) made you male or female (or some transgendered species that some nations have). You don't have the right to defy God by "changing your gender".

I'm surprised that this even needs to be spelled out. Like Bayzbollistan, I believe that people remain whatever sex they were born as. I'm shocked that such a resolution seems to be necessary.

God (or whatever you believe in)

Science actually - sceptical about God

made you male or female

by sheer probability

(or some transgendered species that some nations have). You don't have the right to defy God by "changing your gender".

What if God made you such a way to test your ability to understand yourself? What if you pass the test by getting a sex change operation? What if we pass the test by recognizing the same sex operation? How dare you claim you understand the divine plan (or whatever it is called in the story of Jobe).

I'm surprised that this even needs to be spelled out. Like Bayzbollistan, I believe that people remain whatever sex they were born as. I'm shocked that such a resolution seems to be necessary.

You believe that. My nation does not - nor do any of my puppets, so we will believe our own things and respect those rights as we feel are necessary.

And pass the new Transgender legislation when it hits the floor while we're at it.

Forgottenlands: first of all, I just have to say, I agree with absolutely nothing you just said. However, given your views (no matter how different they may be from my own), I think we would both agree that BECAUSE so many nations have differing oppinions on the subject, it would be wisest if the UN stayed out of the matter entirely. There is absolutely no need for an international definition of what constitutes Man and Woman. Sensitive as the topic may be to most people, it need not be addressed world-wide for any reasons that would effect the entire world (that is, including all nations in the UN), be they productive or harmful.

Prime Minister
Nation of Barad-Du

Forgottenlands: first of all, I just have to say, I agree with absolutely nothing you just said. However, given your views (no matter how different they may be from my own), I think we would both agree that BECAUSE so many nations have differing oppinions on the subject, it would be wisest if the UN stayed out of the matter entirely. There is absolutely no need for an international definition of what constitutes Man and Woman. Sensitive as the topic may be to most people, it need not be addressed world-wide for any reasons that would effect the entire world (that is, including all nations in the UN), be they productive or harmful.

Prime Minister
Nation of Barad-Du


I find Barad Du to have a valid point here... I would not like to see UN gnomes going around looking into my pants to see if I'm Man or Woman. I know what I'm and will glady tell them without them putting their noses in where they should not to determine if I'm Man or Woman or Other.

I find Barad Du to have a valid point here... I would not like to see UN gnomes going around looking into my pants to see if I'm Man or Woman. I know what I'm and will glady tell them without them putting their noses in where they should not to determine if I'm Man or Woman or Other.

That has to be the best damn argument for national sovereignty I've ever seen...

Minister of UN Affairs
Edward Jones

:D

Azati Prime refuses to sign this proposal unless it includes the definition of Queer-queer. In fact, it is not the UN's business to define Azati Prime's citizens' genders. We will do that for ourselves, thank you very much.