NationStates Jolt Archive

My nation is jubilant that our first proposal, The Transsexual Equality Act, has received so much support from the U.N delegates. We received approximately close to 110 signatures. The government has worked tirelessly to campaign on behalf of this human right issue and we will continue to defend and promote and advocate this issue in every way possible until it is passed by the United Nations.

The government would like to inform U.N member nations to take note of our new proposal which has just been submitted. It is now more appropriately called “The Transgender Equality Act.” It is located here..

http://www.nationstates.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/62174/page=UN_proposal/start=35

We have, of course, listened to the concerns that member nations have about this resolution. In particular, we have reconsider the idea about hospitals performing sex reassignment surgeries; we agree that economic reasons or a lack of expertise on sex reassignment surgeries might cause a problem for hospitals to cope with the demand for sex reassignment surgeries. Therefore, we have revised Article 4, it is now read as “….SRS should be legal and reasonably accessible to people who have GID.”

As long as it is reasonable and accessible, this resolution will not demand any hospitals to perform sex reassignment surgeries.

We hope that we will have your support in this new proposal and we encourage anyone who is interested to advocate on this issue on our nation’s behalf.


Sincerely,
Hermione Granger, the new Communication Director of ROADP.

Full Draft of this Proposal:



Description: Description: We, the United Nation, recognize the basic human rights of all individuals, including the transgender people. The Transgender Equality Act seeks to extend civil rights and fair treatment to members of the transgender community.

Believing that Human right is a rooted in belief in human dignity, and that everyone, including members of the transgender community, deserves to be treated with dignity and respect regardless of gender identities or expression

Defining a transgender person to be any person who has a gender that is different than the sex that he or she is assigned at birth ; any intersexes person; anyone who expresses their genders in a way that contravenes societal expectations

Definning Gender Identity as a person’s innate sense of self while gender expression constitutes one’s presentation of his or her gender.

Taking into account that everyone has the freedom of choice as outlined in the resolution of Universal Freedom of Choice to act in a way that might or might not fit with conventional gender stereotype as long as it does not infringe on the freedom of another person.

Recognizes that biological factors, such as one’s brain receptor for hormones, plays a role in the determination of one’s “brain sex” as opposed to one’s “physical sex.”

Acknowledges than that Gender Identity Disorder is a recognized health issue that
involves a person’s brain sex being different than his or her biological sex.

Convinced than that sex reassignment surgeries and its related medical procedures should be legal and allowed in order to alleviate the psychological pain and suffering caused people with GID.

Acknowledging that many transgender people are discriminated against in all area of life, including in employments and health care.

Noting with satisfaction that a significant number of human right laws have already been approved by the United Nation.

Noting with Regrets, however, that none of the past human rights resolutions made any mention on the right of the transgender person.

Be it resolved that the Transgender Equality Act be recognized and declared by the United Nation.

Article one: One’s gender identity or expression shall be included as a prohibited ground of discrimination; any transgender person should receive the same right as everyone else residing in all U.N member countries.

Article two: Considering that a transgender person is much more likely to be targeted for hate violence, law enforcement authorities should be encouraged to access anti-transgender training so they can adequately and sufficiently deliver justice to members of the transgender community.

Article 3: All Anti transgender discrimination in hiring, promotion, training and dismissal will be illegal in all U.N countries.

Article 4: Everyone has the right to wellness psychologically and emotionally therefore; Sex Reassignment Surgeries and Hormonal treatments should be legal and reasonably accessible to people who have GID. Medical personnel are not allowed to refuse treatments to a transgender person based on discrimination against transgender people.

Article 5: Transsexuals who had undergone sex reassignment surgeries will have his or her new gender be legally recognized. Other transgender people, including cross dressers, feminine men, and masculine women will continue to be legally defined by their biological sex at birth.

Article one:

Article two:

Article 3:

Article 4:

Article 5:
You still haven't fixed the incongruent modifiers...

Sorry about that, I am afraid my government cant do anything about that at the moment.

I am glad you sympathize with my situation. I notice the lack of dicussion in regards to my proposal. I really dont know what to think, but I think theres enough support in the U.N to pass this through. I think *most* people will be able to do the right thing, its just a matter of when, this applies both in NS and in real life.

Sorry about that, I am afraid my government cant do anything about that at the moment.

You might make it in this go around ... if my proposal makes it, which I now feel there is a 55% chance it will get in this time, many of the nations that had previously endorsed your proposal have also endorsed mine.

But if your proposal does not make it into the queue, then it is an easy fix and something I think would be nice to see. :)

Sorry about that, I am afraid my government cant do anything about that at the moment.
I understand.

I just wished there'd been more discussion in the first thread about how the proposal were written (which is what I was focused on (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=9353350&postcount=87)(clicky)) rather than mindless "gays are the devil!" and "you're a homophobic moron!" posts.

Don't get me wrong, I do think the UN forum is the place to discuss whether a proposal is justified or not. But it's also the first line of defense for catching technical proposal writing errors. I feel the UN forum needs to be used for both conceptual and practical argumentation about proposals. I just didn't see much practical discussion in your first thread.

You might make it in this go around ... if my proposal makes it, which I now feel there is a 55% chance it will get in this time, many of the nations that had previously endorsed your proposal have also endorsed mine.

But if your proposal does not make it into the queue, then it is an easy fix and something I think would be nice to see. :)


Honestly, I hope it will make it this time. =0
Overall, I feel VERY good abou this resolution.
And yes, I am so happy for you. I think your resolution will make it!

You know, you still haven't accounted for transsexual individuals who are *unable* to have sexual reassignment surgery, which is a major hole in an overwise highly admirable resolution...

This government is empathetic to people who are unable to have sex reassignment surgery. It is very difficult to have the law changed to recognize people by their new gender when they havent reached the final stage of transition, SRS.

Some women are not comfortable in sharing the washroom with a transgender woman who still has a bit of a "male" part. I think this is a tricky and subjective issue that is hard to administer , it would be best left up to an individual nation to decide at what stage of a transition can one finally gain the legal status of his or her true gender.

And we realise that some people dont want to be identified as a male or female at all, but the law insists that one has to pick one gender. I think that one can have whatever self identification one wants in private but it is immensely difficult for the government to handle these self identifications and make it legal at this moment in time.

It will create too much confusion and it could backfired and harm the transgender community.



I sympathize very much with your concern, but I dont think I would be able to make a change in that regard.

I still hope that your will be supporting our resolution, which will provide a framework in which transgender people can strive to live without fear and discrimination.

You might make it in this go around ... if my proposal makes it, which I now feel there is a 55% chance it will get in this time, many of the nations that had previously endorsed your proposal have also endorsed mine.

But if your proposal does not make it into the queue, then it is an easy fix and something I think would be nice to see. :)


Congratulation! Your proposal made it!

;)

Some women are not comfortable in sharing the washroom with a transgender woman who still has a bit of a "male" part. I think this is a tricky and subjective issue that is hard to administer , it would be best left up to an individual nation to decide at what stage of a transition can one finally gain the legal status of his or her true gender.

Many transsexuals who do not undergo SRS can still blend in perfectly with society without being noticed as transgender individuals, but nevertheless I agree with your point. However, perhaps if there's another draft of the resolution you could make your intention more clear? At the moment the final clause reads,

Transsexuals who had undergone sex reassignment surgeries will have his or her new gender be legally recognized. Other transgender people, including cross dressers, feminine men, and masculine women will continue to be legally defined by their biological sex at birth.

...implying that the UN is *preventing* nations from giving such rights to transsexual women and men who are unable to have SRS.

How about something along the lines of

Transsexuals who had undergone sex reassignment surgeries will have his or her new gender be legally recognized. The legal re-assignment of gender for pre-operative or non-operative transsexuals shall be considered the concern of individual nationstates. Other transgender people, including (but not limited to) cross dressers, feminine men, and masculine women will continue to be legally defined by their biological sex at birth.

Please do not be offended, but I am not approving your proposal in the hope that it will fail. This is not because I object to what you're trying to achieve; rather, I would like to see the proposal 'cleaned up' with regards to grammar, etc. Then you'll have a really high quality proposal that I suspect I'll be very happy to approve.

Should the proposal fail on this submission, I am willing to offer my services for editing.

Varia Yefremova
Speaker to the UN

"Transgender Equality Act seeks to extend civil rights and fair treatment to members of the transgender community"

What does this mean?

Many transsexuals who do not undergo SRS can still blend in perfectly with society without being noticed as transgender individuals, but nevertheless I agree with your point. However, perhaps if there's another draft of the resolution you could make your intention more clear? At the moment the final clause reads,



...implying that the UN is *preventing* nations from giving such rights to transsexual women and men who are unable to have SRS.

How about something along the lines of

But the resolution supports people who did not undergo sex reassignment surgery as well, the term Transgender is very encompassing. It includes the idea that equal rights should be given to everyone who presents themselves in a way that is not conventional. I think this already applies to people who are at various stage of transition. See Article one. But you raised a good point.

Please do not be offended, but I am not approving your proposal in the hope that it will fail. This is not because I object to what you're trying to achieve; rather, I would like to see the proposal 'cleaned up' with regards to grammar, etc. Then you'll have a really high quality proposal that I suspect I'll be very happy to approve.

Should the proposal fail on this submission, I am willing to offer my services for editing.

Varia Yefremova
Speaker to the UN


I understand. But at the moment, I will continue to advocate on behalf of this issue.

Gwen Shrolly,
Communication Director of ROADP

But the resolution supports people who did not undergo sex reassignment surgery as well, the term Transgender is very encompassing. It includes the idea that equal rights should be given to everyone who presents themselves in a way that is not conventional. I think this already applies to people who are at various stage of transition. See Article one. But you raised a good point.
I have to side with Markodonia here one one bit. This:
Article 5: Transsexuals who had undergone sex reassignment surgeries will have his or her new gender be legally recognized. Other transgender people, including cross dressers, feminine men, and masculine women will continue to be legally defined by their biological sex at birth.
That prevents those transsexuals who are unable to have or do not want to have SRS from being legally recognized as the gender of their choice.

That's right, the government's proposal would not permit a transgender woman who still has a "male" part to be recognized legally as a woman. I believe that this should be decided by individual nation. But what this resolution does is to protect and treat these transgender women and men fairly even if she wasnt allowed to be recognized legally by her desired gender. Thank you for taking the time to look at our proposal.

Madonna,
U.N ambassador.

That's right, the government's proposal would not permit a transgender woman who still has a "male" part to be recognized legally as a woman. I believe that this should be decided by individual nation.
*curious*
Well, if you believe it should be an individual nation's choice, why is it that you outlawed it?

The Kingdom of JohnyChevy will never support something like this. If a man is born a man, he is a man. It doesn't matter if he got his unit removed.

John Chevalier II
King of JohnyChevy

The Kingdom of JohnyChevy will never support something like this. If a man is born a man, he is a man. It doesn't matter if he got his unit removed.

John Chevalier II
King of JohnyChevy

Define "man".

It's harder than you think ;)

You have people who are born physically female in every way but have XY chromosones. Then you have people who are physically female in every way, but are born with an oversized clitoris, or an actual penis. The only place gender seems firmly wired is the brain.

*curious*
Well, if you believe it should be an individual nation's choice, why is it that you outlawed it?


who said i outlawed it?
my resolution only states that crossdressers, feminine men, masculine women will continue to be legally defined by their sex at birth.

It doesnt prevent other nations to give these people their desired sex status at any stage of transition if the it is the nation's intention to do so.

Define "man".

It's harder than you think ;)

You have people who are born physically female in every way but have XY chromosones. Then you have people who are physically female in every way, but are born with an oversized clitoris, or an actual penis. The only place gender seems firmly wired is the brain.


Exactly.

However, it seems like this resolution will not receive the required number of approvals. My government is committed to this resolution, of course. We have sent about 2000 telegrams in 2 days. Should this proposal failed, i will probably edit my resolution to make it more clearly stated that this resolution does not prevent any nation to change anyone's gender legally , including anyone who hasnt undergone a sex reassignment surgeries.

and if anyone has any problem with this resolution, PLEASE speak out. Pleaes dont make the mistaking of telling me only after i have submitted it.

Define "man".

It's harder than you think ;)

You have people who are born physically female in every way but have XY chromosones. Then you have people who are physically female in every way, but are born with an oversized clitoris, or an actual penis. The only place gender seems firmly wired is the brain.

With all due respect, that is so not the same. A MAN is someone that is a freking man. A man has a unit. If someone decides later on in life that he wants to be a woman, he is still a man. What you are talking about is a birth mutation, and that is a sad situation.

and if anyone has any problem with this resolution, PLEASE speak out. Pleaes dont make the mistaking of telling me only after i have submitted it.

I have a problem with it. My nation doesn't believe that a man is a woman. He may dress like a woman, and get his unit blown off, but he is still a man.

I have a problem with it. My nation doesn't believe that a man is a woman. He may dress like a woman, and get his unit blown off, but he is still a man.


OOC: You better be careful about what you say here. I am not going to tolerate your shit. I wont tolerate it on Teleboards and I am going to ignore you if you start saying racist and homophobic shit to me.


Read: Brain sex. Some brains are masculine and some brains are feminine. The brain sex might not reflect correctly with one's physical sex.



This government respects the opinon of your nation, at least for now. But my government is well aware that your nation has a history of mistreating its own citizens, including but not limiting to: women and gays.


This government also likes to take this time to inform "JohnyChevy" that the U.N has already approved same sex marriages. Your nation MUST comply with it.

And this government would also like to inform you that the Republic of Agonstic Deeishpeople will NEVER give up on this fight. The proposal will eventually get passed. You can mark my word on that~

I am instructed by my nation to inquire further from the nation of Agnostic Deeish people on the topic of "brain sex"

While in our region the impact of early childhood psychology and identification with gender roles (which are banned in my country - such things as one gender not getting things such as sewing, cooking or atletics training strike us as primitive) are recognised, we are unsure of the biological nature of this "brain sex" - can you enlighten us?

Jeran Phaytos
Minister of Communications and Diplomacy
Thermidore

(OOC I've petitioned my delegate to endorse it, after all check what region I'm from. after all there's that famous quote about sticking up for others that are oppressed even if you aren't in the same boat as them, by that guy who was in a concentration camp, I'll google it and ...ah here it is

First they came for the Jews and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for the Communists and I did not speak out because I was not a Communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist.

Then they came for me and there was no one left to speak out for me.
-Pastor Martin Niemöller)

I am instructed by my nation to inquire further from the nation of Agnostic Deeish people on the topic of "brain sex"

While in our region the impact of early childhood psychology and identification with gender roles (which are banned in my country - such things as one gender not getting things such as sewing, cooking or atletics training strike us as primitive) are recognised, we are unsure of the biological nature of this "brain sex" - can you enlighten us?

Jeran Phaytos
Minister of Communications and Diplomacy
Thermidore

(OOC I've petitioned my delegate to endorse it, after all check what region I'm from. after all there's that famous quote about sticking up for others that are oppressed even if you aren't in the same boat as them, by that guy who was in a concentration camp, I'll google it and ...ah here it is

First they came for the Jews and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for the Communists and I did not speak out because I was not a Communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist.

Then they came for me and there was no one left to speak out for me.
-Pastor Martin Niemöller)

The government is proud of your nation’s enlightened attitudes on gender roles and identities.

My government takes the position that both the brain and the environment play a role in the forming of one’s gender identity.

An interesting article from the BBC.


Genes and hormones certainly have an effect on the brain, which is masculinised by testosterone and feminised by female hormones. As a result, men generally have better spatial skills than woman and women tend to develop more sensitive hearing and smell.


Some scientists believe that extra testosterone in the womb can make a girl more of a tomboy

Oddly, the most visible indication of brain sex is the length of our fingers! Generally, boys have a longer ring finger than index finger, whereas most girls have longer index fingers. However nobody has a purely male or female brain, probably because we receive different amounts of sex hormones in the womb. Some scientists believe that extra testosterone in the womb can make a girl more of a tomboy but whether extra female hormones make boys more of a sissy is hotly debated; this is because we treat male and female children differently.

As Child of Our Time found out, even at the tender age of one a baby begins to make gendered choices of toys. By the time children are a few years old it's clear that girls tend to prefer dolls, which encourage nurturing, and boys prefer cars and trucks, which promote more adventurous play.


Professor Melissa Hines of the University of Central London helped us with an exciting experiment to find out if brain sex or environment is responsible for this. She dressed a baby girl as a boy and a baby boy as a girl. Without revealing the true sex of the children, we observed the way parents interacted and played with the children. We found that almost all adults gave boys toys to the children they thought were boys and dolls to those they thought were girls. In fact, almost all adults strongly encourage children to conform to gender stereotypes even when they are only one year old. Interestingly, we also found that parents are much stricter with boys than girls.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/parenting/tv_and_radio/child_of_our_time/progguide_series2prog2.shtml#brain_sex_or_environment?



The natural versus nuture debate is ...ongoing. I think this is an important discussion and I am very pleased that your nation has bought it up.

I think it is also important to keep in mind that we may never know exactly the causes of one's gender identity fully. Whats more important, perhaps, is to just accept people for who they are.

And that is what this resolution does. And I cannot imagine why anyone , who has compassion and respect for human rights, would oppose to it.

OOC: You better be careful about what you say here. I am not going to tolerate your shit. I wont tolerate it on Teleboards and I am going to ignore you if you start saying racist and homophobic shit to me.


Read: Brain sex. Some brains are masculine and some brains are feminine. The brain sex might not reflect correctly with one's physical sex.



This government respects the opinon of your nation, at least for now. But my government is well aware that your nation has a history of mistreating its own citizens, including but not limiting to: women and gays.


This government also likes to take this time to inform "JohnyChevy" that the U.N has already approved same sex marriages. Your nation MUST comply with it.

And this government would also like to inform you that the Republic of Agonstic Deeishpeople will NEVER give up on this fight. The proposal will eventually get passed. You can mark my word on that~

No need for a harsh tone. I have everything to express my opinions on the matter. A man is a man. A woman is a woman, period. Please dont take that tone with me, because it is uncalled for and childish.

No need for a harsh tone. I have everything to express my opinions on the matter. A man is a man. A woman is a woman, period. Please dont take that tone with me, because it is uncalled for and childish.

Are hermaphrodites men or women? What about people with two X chromosomes but have penises and testicular tissue ?


"There are even cultures, such as in the Dominican Republic, where people recognize three sexes: male, female and people who are born looking female (they have no penis or visible testes) but at puberty produce so much testosterone, a male hormone, that the clitoris turns into a penis.
To many lay people, the idea that something as seemingly basic as sexual and gender identity can be so complicated is often disturbing. And scientists are far from being able to explain why there can be such variation. But they do have some clues."

How do you explain that ? ^ and on what basis would you classify them? Through chromsomes or gential?

I think you need to appreciate the diversity of people.

http://www.ntac.org/news/00/12/09globe.html

"But, at about seven weeks, the embryo sort of takes stock of whether it got that Y chromosome seven weeks back at the moment of fertilization," Page said. On the Y chromosome lies a key gene called SRY, which stimulates the primitive gonads to become testes. If the SRY gene is not present, the gonads become ovaries.
Once testes form, they begin pumping out the male hormone, testosterone, which causes the Wolffian ducts to become the sperm production and transport system. The testes also pump out a chemical called MIS that causes the Mullerian ducts to shrivel up, so they cannot form fallopian tubes and the uterus.
As fetal development continues, male and female hormones then imprint the brain, nudging it toward masculinization or feminization.
"One of the things we believe is that it is more common for men to become female in transgender change than for females to become men," said Dr. Marshall Forstein, medical director of Fenway Community Health in Boston. "If something goes wrong in [the fetal development] process, or something is variable in that process, some of the brains of those men don't become masculinized at the appropriate development time: Their brains are female, even though their bodies are male."


http://www.ntac.org/news/00/12/09globe.html

Some also think that "gender is not just a black and white issue. There's every color of the spectrum. Likewise, there aren't just two genders."


"gender expression is a form of speech. It's not spoken, but it's a form of speech that should be constitutionally protected." -Nancy Nangeroni

A man is a man. A woman is a woman, period. Please dont take that tone with me, because it is uncalled for and childish.

Could the honourable delegate please be so kind as to inform us what they consider to be a "man" or a "woman"? So far you have yet to be forthcoming on the matter. As Agnostic Deeishpeople's evidence has demonstrated, the issue is not as clear cut as most people think!

Also, on the resolution itself, Markodonia for one would be keen to see a new draft specifically allowing for individual nationstates to have control over whether or not to grant certain rights to non-operative transsexuals. We would be keen to support it and seek the support of other delegates should this be the case :)

The Commonwealth of Kayros wholeheartedly supports this proposal, and wishes the best of luck in garnering the votes necessary to bring it before the entire United Nations.

K. Martin
Ambassador to the United Nations

The Most Serene Republic of Love and esterel is very happy to support “The Transgender Equality Act.”

we want to outline that people can be born with more sexual chromosone combination than XX and XY
these combination are:
XO (Turner syndrome)
XXX (trisomy X)
XXY (Klinefelter's trisomy)
XYY (XYY trisomy)
XO/XY (people who have some of their cells XO and the others cells XY)
XX male (male even without Y chromosome)
XY female (Swyer syndrome, women with a Y chromosome)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersexual

The Most Serene Republic of Love and esterel thanks Agnostic Deeishpeople for this proposal

The Most Serene Republic of Love and esterel

You might make it in this go around ... if my proposal makes it, which I now feel there is a 55% chance it will get in this time, many of the nations that had previously endorsed your proposal have also endorsed mine.

But if your proposal does not make it into the queue, then it is an easy fix and something I think would be nice to see. :)
Yes if it doesn't go through this time I agree to changing the Article one, two, 3, 4, 5 thing and also at birth ; any intersexes person; anyone who expresses their genders in a way that contravenes societal expectations

Definning Gender Identity there should be no space after birth and it should be "intersexeD" and "Defining"

I'm happy cause i got my delegate to endorse this, and if there's anyone who hasn't endorsed this - DO!
There's only 25 endorsements needed!

Any swing votes should bring their issues here where we will debate them.

Please, for the love of Equality and Human dignity, will 18 more delegates approve my proposal?

Only 17 needed now!!! C'mon folks ante up!

16!!

Hmm I doubt there's that much time left so c'mon people!!! It's only 16 left - even if you've voted gets others who haven't!

i think theres 7 more hours left at least.

i hope that will make it

thank you very much people. We only need 12 more signatures...My office has been working non stop this afternoon. We appreciate any help that you guys can offer.

For people who support this proposal, we need only 5 more signatures. I ask all U.N member nations to help bring this proposal to a public vote!

Sincerely ,
Susan Goodale, Minister of GLBT.

We reiterate Our objection to this proposal, since it is simply a bare-faced attempt by a single NationState to impose its peculiar sexual attitudes upon the rest of the UN nations. If the ROADP wishes to redefine the concepts of "man" and "woman" to suit its personal whims, fine. They have no right, however, to force other NationStates to accept such redefinitions.

We urge all NationStates who value their right to choose their cultural values to reject this act of sexual prejudice.

The government of ROADP is excited to inform U.N members that The Transgender Equality act has reached the quorum. My government has been very determined and committed to advocate on behalf of this resolution.

The government respects the opinon of The Holy Otaku Church of The Eternal Kawaiim but we are unable to understand how we are being sexually prejudiced with this resolution. We only want people to not be punished simply based on gender stereotypes. What’s more, we only want to help those who feel that their bodies are unmatched to their true sex, it is not their faults that they have these feelings. The only thing prejudicial is when we choose to discriminate these people just because they are different than the norms.

Sincerely ,
Madonna, U.N ambassador.

The Most Serene Republic of Love and esterel congratulate The government of ROADP

:) Thank you. Good luck on your Sex education Act.

The government respects the opinon of The Holy Otaku Church of The Eternal Kawaii but we are unable to understand how we are being sexually prejudiced with this resolution. We only want people to not be punished simply based on gender stereotypes. What’s more, we only want to help those who feel that their bodies are unmatched to their true sex, it is not their faults that they have these feelings. The only thing prejudicial is when we choose to discriminate these people just because they are different than the norms.

Sincerely ,
Madonna, U.N ambassador.

The esteemed delegate of ROADP displays their prejudice in their very words here: "gender stereotypes" and "norms". We would like to point out that the "gender stereotypes" and "norms" of The Eternal Kawaii are not the same as those of the ROADP. To casually presume that all NationStates have similar attitudes towards sexuality demonstrates an appalling lack of sensitivity towards foreign cultures. While We appreciate the ROADP's wish to help people they perceive as in need, We wish to state clearly that the UN is not the forum for such sensitive and personal issues.

We repeat Our objection to this proposal as an unwelcome meddling into NationStates' societies, and an attempt to push one nation's culture upon the rest of us.

Ok than. May I inquire what kinds of sexualities are predominant in your culture? And why you feel that your nation has a right to impose certain sexualities on your citizens?

The government of ROADP is excited to inform U.N members that The Transgender Equality act has reached the quorum. My government has been very determined and committed to advocate on behalf of this resolution.

Congrats!

Since my resolution will remain on the floor til Monday, and the Powerhungry Chipmunks appear next in the queue, I suspect their proposal will reach the floor on Tuesay and run until Saturday morning. This means your proposal *should* hit the floor as a resolution come Sunday Aug 14. I could be wrong.

I have a minor request ... on Saturday Aug 13 or before, you might want to start a new thread with the text of your resolution as it will appear in the first post. Then include a poll in your resolution, much like I've done with my resolution asking nations if they have voted: yes, no, abstain *and* allow us to see who voted and make sure they can only vote once.

The reason this is important to the United Nations Association, is the UN forum has long wondered if the debates here reflect the votes on the resolutions themselves. I plan to compare the statistics of the final vote with the surveys conducted here. I also plan to wait at least *2* lunar cycles (which are important in the game, because inactive nations disappear after one lunar cycle) and then recalculate the stats for nations that I call "fire and forget". Basically, I think there are a few puppets that are posting in the forums, and I'd like to do a bit of detective work in August.

Basically, I think there are a few puppets that are posting in the forums, and I'd like to do a bit of detective work in August.

Puppets posting, you say? Who would do such a thing?


Just kidding. I'll admit right now that this nation is a puppet of HotRodia. ;)

Congrats!

Since my resolution will remain on the floor til Monday, and the Powerhungry Chipmunks appear next in the queue, I suspect their proposal will reach the floor on Tuesay and run until Saturday morning. This means your proposal *should* hit the floor as a resolution come Sunday Aug 14. I could be wrong.

I have a minor request ... on Saturday Aug 13 or before, you might want to start a new thread with the text of your resolution as it will appear in the first post. Then include a poll in your resolution, much like I've done with my resolution asking nations if they have voted: yes, no, abstain *and* allow us to see who voted and make sure they can only vote once.

The reason this is important to the United Nations Association, is the UN forum has long wondered if the debates here reflect the votes on the resolutions themselves. I plan to compare the statistics of the final vote with the surveys conducted here. I also plan to wait at least *2* lunar cycles (which are important in the game, because inactive nations disappear after one lunar cycle) and then recalculate the stats for nations that I call "fire and forget". Basically, I think there are a few puppets that are posting in the forums, and I'd like to do a bit of detective work in August.


Thank you. I will do that.

Thank you. I will do that.

Thanks! :)

If you have time, something I do, is visit a few of the regional forums and ask Delegates that when my resolution hits the floor, if they wouldn't mind if I was on-hand to answer questions.

When resolution authors have visited my region, I have always felt a strong desire to here their opinions before casting a no vote and also to give them a chance to change my mind. The feeders are a good place to start. From there you can look at the regional embassies they maintain and pick a few other regions to open up relationships with.

The end result has been that even when they voted against my resolutions, I understood their reasons ... and they've always been extremely polite. I think the off-site regional boards are an extremely fun part of the game.

Thanks! :)

If you have time, something I do, is visit a few of the regional forums and ask Delegates that when my resolution hits the floor, if they wouldn't mind if I was on-hand to answer questions.

When resolution authors have visited my region, I have always felt a strong desire to here their opinions before casting a no vote and also to give them a chance to change my mind. The feeders are a good place to start. From there you can look at the regional embassies they maintain and pick a few other regions to open up relationships with.

The end result has been that even when they voted against my resolutions, I understood their reasons ... and they've always been extremely polite. I think the off-site regional boards are an extremely fun part of the game.


Heh. I had a very aggressive TG campaign. I contacted almost 70 percent of all U.N delegates, I 've already heared many of their concerns and questions, but mostly insults. I would love to hear their opinons , i think thats what its all about. Thank you.

Heh. I had a very aggressive TB campaign.
<GASP!> You're Spreading Tuberculosis!? Just kidding. Good luck with this.

lol. Thanks.

it should be TG :(

it doesnt mean "transgender", it means "telegram"! :p

Heh. I had a very aggressive TG campaign. I contacted almost 70 percent of all U.N delegates, I 've already heared many of their concerns and questions, but mostly insults. I would love to hear their opinons , i think thats what its all about. Thank you.

Agreed!

And ... WOW, that is an aggressive TG campaign and something I'm interesting to hear about. :) Basically, when your resolution has finished, pass or fail, I was hoping that together we could write the NSWiki entry for it, and this is exactly the type of note that I think is interesting in the History of the resolution section.

Ok than. May I inquire what kinds of sexualities are predominant in your culture? And why you feel that your nation has a right to impose certain sexualities on your citizens?

The people of Our nation are human, male and female according to the manner in which they were created. According to the teachings of the HOCEK, this distinction is a divine gift from their Creator. To assume, as the distinguished delegate here is suggesting, that sexuality is something that can be imposed or withheld by human agency implies a rejection of this gift, and an abandonment of the sacred nature of the human body.

The good people of ROADP may be satisfied with such debasement of their sexual natures, but it is unworthy of them to attempt to impose this same debasement upon the rest of the UN.

It is also a divine gift that some people have both male and female characteristics, and that includes people who have ambiguous sexual organs.

The Kingdom of JohnyChevy feels that this proposed legislation is the worst idea ever.

King JohnyChevy

Referring to Article Four, my nation has a nationalized healthcare system and cosmetic surgeries are nonexistent. Unfortunately, this was caught in the crossfire. Will the UN provide resources to set up these surgeries or will my people have to foot the bill? I do not mean to discriminate but unfortunately, this goes against our healthcare plans by draining our resources for a cosmetic procedure. I can not support this bill if my nation would have to drain public funds for the aid of this small minority.

I'm afraid to say that much as I'm impressed by the support for the resolution (and greatly gladdened that so many appear to be behind transgendered rights!) I'm still hoping this resolution will not pass because of the unfortunate wording of clause five

Article 5: Transsexuals who had undergone sex reassignment surgeries will have his or her new gender be legally recognized. Other transgender people, including cross dressers, feminine men, and masculine women will continue to be legally defined by their biological sex at birth.

which *still* effectively bans UN nations from recognising (or not) the rights of non-operative transsexual individuals...Markodonia for example currently legally recognises non-operative transsexuals who are medically incapable of having sexual reassignment surgery as their preferred gender if they have lived in that gender role for the past two years and demonstrate that they intend to do so for the rest of their lives. This resolution *will* effectively destroy this law which is so important for certain members of the transsexual minority group.

Therefore we shall be mounting an extensive telegram campaign against this resolution. In the event that it fails and is re-submitted with a re-written article five, we shall fully support it.

It is also a divine gift that some people have both male and female characteristics, and that includes people who have ambiguous sexual organs.

And as we have stated before, such matters are best left to parents, priests and physicians, not UN bureaucrats.

The Republic of Libertaville understands your proposition, but has some concerns. The concern being that, by defining a transgender person, as anyone who feels the urges of a sex, different then their own, you are infringing on the securities of those who are not transgender.

The Republic of Libertaville feels that the rights of "Transgender" people should only be put on those who have gone through the transexual surgery, for one main reason. The privacy of "real" men and women.

By allowing those who still have the sexual organs of their previous sex to enter into Dressing Rooms, or Bathrooms, I feel that some people may feel uncomfortable. And by allowing those people to be uncomfortable, you are infringing on their rights.

If the rights of transgenders were specific, to "real" transgenders, then I would support your proposition, but until then I must deny The Republic of Libertaville's support.

Antonio Masticoverre
The Republic of Libertaville.

By allowing those who still have the sexual organs of their previous sex to enter into Dressing Rooms, or Bathrooms, I feel that some people may feel uncomfortable. And by allowing those people to be uncomfortable, you are infringing on their rights.




This resolution does not allow that. A transgender woman with a male sexual organ will still be considered a male legally under this resolution. But of course, this resolution also does not prevent nations such as Markodonia to legally recognize pre or non operative transexuals. The resolution is silent on this issue and we feel that its not for the U.N to decide at what stage of the transition can a person aquire the legal status of his or her acquired gender.

Referring to Article Four, my nation has a nationalized healthcare system and cosmetic surgeries are nonexistent. Unfortunately, this was caught in the crossfire. Will the UN provide resources to set up these surgeries or will my people have to foot the bill? I do not mean to discriminate but unfortunately, this goes against our healthcare plans by draining our resources for a cosmetic procedure. I can not support this bill if my nation would have to drain public funds for the aid of this small minority.

It is up to your nation to decide if sex reassignment surgery and its related services should be included to the health care coverage or not. You dont have to publicly fund it, it could be a service that can be purchased by clients although we do not recommand that.

It is up to your nation to decide if sex reassignment surgery and its related services should be included to the health care coverage or not. You dont have to publicly fund it, it could be a service that can be purchased by clients although we do not recommand that.

Yes but as mentioned all healthcare is owned by the state and all doctors are trained and educated on the nation's bill under the nation's supervison. There are no private clinics and there are no treatments which a patient has to pay for directly. Will I be considered in breach of this law if no one in my nation can attain such surgeries simply because no one has the skills or means to perform the operation?

Thank you for your question.

The resolution reads that .. "Sex Reassignment Surgeries and Hormonal treatments should be legal and reasonably accessible to people who have GID"

This resolution asks all member nations to make sure that SRS is reasonably accessible to people who have GID. Its up to an individual nation to interpret what "reasonable accessibility" is. Furthermore, doctors have to perform surgeries on intersex babies; this resolution assumes that SRS is not a cosmetic surgery; it is a medically necessary surgery.

Are you referring to hermaphroditic babies? It is much easier to do such operations on babies as everything is less developed. Plus in those cases, there is no major "sculpting" of new parts. A grown man wishing to become a female requires the creation of everything needed down there. A baby simply requires the loss of one sex organ and the rerouting of the urinary tract and other parts. I really don't want to go graphic on this act so I'm ending it here.

Yes , but adults who are born in the "wrong" bodies should also be allowed to reclaim their true gender identity. And lets not forget that, for many nations, the only way they can be legally recognized by their correct genders is through sex reassignment surgeries.

First, may the Republic of Libertaville congradulate you on making it.

However, The Republic of Libertaville has one more question to raise? In most countries, when a man hits a woman it is handled much firmer then if a woman hits a woman, or a woman hits a man. Now, since your Act states, their new sex will only be realized if they go through sex re-assignment surgery, we can assume that the same punishments will be taken if a woman in a mans body hits a woman, correct?

Yes , but adults who are born in the "wrong" bodies should also be allowed to reclaim their true gender identity. And lets not forget that, for many nations, the only way they can be legally recognized by their correct genders is through sex reassignment surgeries.

It pains Us to be constantly vexing upon this topic, but there are times when one simply has to call rubbish for what it is.

People are not born in the "wrong" bodies. They are born in the bodies created for them. If they have a problem understanding the nature of their bodies, this is a problem of the mind and the spirit, not of the flesh.

The esteemed delegate from ROADP appears to be of the opinion that the solution the UN should endorse to this problem is the promotion of "sex reassignment surgeries." This is an interesting euphamism, but do not be fooled by it--it means one thing: Genital mutilation.

Indeed, it can be fairly compared to the horrors inflicted on women in some benighted countries under the sad misnomer "female circumcision." In the latter case, disempowered and disadvantaged women are subject to barbarism by their sexually-insecure menfolk in the name of "moral purity". In the former, emotionally confused people are preyed upon by an arrogant sexual philosophy, promoted by so-called "doctors" who in their hubris have decided to play God with peoples' genitals.

Do not let the esteemed delegate's show of concern for the sexually confused here deceive you. This legislation does not promote human rights. It promotes sexual abuse.

Listen, I am not saying that they should be discriminated against. I am simply unsure if my nation has the resources to help these people. Our doctors are not given the training for such extensive cosmetic modifications.

Eternal Kawaii: This is different as it is consensual and not recommeded for those who are underage. I agree that babies should not be circumcised but I am split in the case of hermaphroditic babies. I doubt it is a great experience in your teen years to be laughed at in the locker room or to be disgusting to someone you've courted. Which is worse, a week or so of pain during an early stage of life or a lifetime of confusion?

You can interpret sex reassignment surgery as a form of “sexual abuse” all you like. I believe that real abuse is committed when transgender people cant access the treatments they need in order bring their bodies into harmony with their true gender identities. Let’s not forget that80 to 90 percent of post operative transgender were satisfied with their procedures.

Anyways , I think it would be informative for people to read the following:

Gender Identity Disorder is a recognized medical condition by the American Medical Association and the American Psychiatric Association. It is considered a birth defect, which occurs about five weeks after conception. The brain does not match the physical sex of the body. This is also known as Transsexualism. There are males with female brains and females with male brains. The true incidence is unknown but is estimated to be one in one hundred thousand births. The reason for it is unknown but it is thought to be a biochemical mistake in the formation of the brain. The result is that the individual has the psychological and chemical brain of one gender but the body of the other. Persons with this disorder know from an age of 5 or 6, that they are different from other individuals of the same physical sex. Early on, they learn to hide it from all others, even their parents and siblings. They learn the skills and mannerisms of the gender that their body is but are aware that they think and feel different. They want to be of the opposite gender and often characteristically go to bed at night praying they wake up in the body that matches their mind. Many do not understand the difference until they see the anatomic difference between girls and boys. Puberty is very difficult because the body changes away from the way the mind expects.




http://www.sarabecker.com/t/gender_identity_disorder%20letter.htm

Listen, I am not saying that they should be discriminated against. I am simply unsure if my nation has the resources to help these people. Our doctors are not given the training for such extensive cosmetic modifications.




The most common cause of death for transgender people who are not able to access SRS is suicide followed by murder, usually brutal. They deserve better. If you dont have the resource, get it!

Yes agreed. It needs one more edit before I could even consider voting for it.

My government was searching old resolutions and we were delighted and suprised to find that in the Sexes Rights Law...Article 5 states that The Nation States United Nations recognises that gender is not just a physical manifestation but also a mental manifestation, and recognises that people of self proclaimed gender are also equally protected by the regulations and recommendations bound here in.


This part of the already passed resolution might be of interest to some people who object to the Transgender Equality Act.

I understand their plight. I'm not saying I will deny it to them, I'm saying I don't know if I can provide it to them! I have an IMPLODED economy and I truly wish that some UN funding could help less developed nations to provide these services. Until that happens, I can't support this. I am sorry to any people here who are transgendered and to any of my citizens who wish to be transgender.

I thought your nation is supposed to be compassionate and you are a self proclaimed marxist..but yet..you are more concerned about achieving a perfect economy than than well being of its citizens..

would it be so horrible if your economy is doing very good instead of "imploded"? I thought only neo cons are obsessed with economy. ;) Anyways, like i said, you could make it so that SRS is partially payable. SRS doesnt cost alot since its rare. You are overreacting and losing your sense of piority , I believe.

I'm being realistic. Even we Marxists have to do that occasionally. :rolleyes:

I'm not obsessed with my economy, nor do I stat-wank, here or on issues. I have recognized many sexual minorities and allow them to do as they please. In this case, as I have RPed my healthcare, sex-reassignment surgery would not exist, nor would the underlying research and techniques. It may take a few years, but the People's Republic will grant free sexual-reassignment surgery to citizens. (I can easily see the Opposition talking about the wave of immigrants this will bring.) People will not have to pay simply because of their condition at birth. I still say it should have provided resources (personnel, data, formulas for artificial hormone production, etc...) but it will pass because overall it is a good resolution. I will support it simply for that reason.

And no, this was not in response to you calling me a neo-conservative. I was going to support it anyways. I just wanted to see what you think about third-world nations who might not be able to afford this. You didn't offer many solutions and I am fairly disappointed at that.

This strikes us as an important resolution, because it recognises the immense difficulties endured by many trans-sex individuals and attempts to reduce them through compassionate legislation. I defy anyone to be so hard-hearted as to reject a common plea for decency towards such individuals.

May the blessings of our otters be upon you all

Leonard Otterby
Ambassador for the Republic of Compadria to the U.N.

Long live gender-equality Compadria!

We note the so-called "medical" report the esteemed delegate has quoted. It says nothing more than what We have stated before: that this so-called difference between "gender" and "sex" they speak of is a mental and emotional disorder. Performing genital mutilation upon the mentally disturbed is sexual abuse, no matter how one may try to hide it behind the fig leaf of "consent". Permitting and aiding a self-destructive individual to harm themselves is no different, morally, than harming them against their will.

We are not unsympathetic to the plight of the mentally and emotionally disturbed, particularly when dealing with a issue as important as sexuality. Such matters must be handled with compassion and reverence. Encouraging these people to destroy their Divinely given bodies through barbarous "medical" procedures is neither compassionate nor reverent, however. It is cruelty.

Obviously, the good people of ROADP may not agree with this. But they have no right to demand other NationStates accept their narrow view on this matter.

We note the so-called "medical" report the esteemed delegate has quoted. It says nothing more than what We have stated before: that this so-called difference between "gender" and "sex" they speak of is a mental and emotional disorder. Performing genital mutilation upon the mentally disturbed is sexual abuse, no matter how one may try to hide it behind the fig leaf of "consent". Permitting and aiding a self-destructive individual to harm themselves is no different, morally, than harming them against their will.

We are not unsympathetic to the plight of the mentally and emotionally disturbed, particularly when dealing with a issue as important as sexuality. Such matters must be handled with compassion and reverence. Encouraging these people to destroy their Divinely given bodies through barbarous "medical" procedures is neither compassionate nor reverent, however. It is cruelty. Thats cruelty.

Obviously, the good people of ROADP may not agree with this. But they have no right to demand other NationStates accept their narrow view on this matter.

Refusing to treat people who need medical treatment is cruetly. Post trasgender people are not mentally distrubed, they dont need to be encourageda and they have a right to make their own decision and seek their own medical treatements. U.N member nations have no right to prevent these individuals from seeking help.

*POST TO THE LEADERS OF NATIONS WITHIN THE UNITED NATIONS REGARDING THE TRANSGENDER EQUALITY ACT*

I infer the purpose of this resolution is to bestow more freedom to nations within the United Nations. After reading the resolution I cannot fathom how this could be so. Changing the gender that one was given at birth is frowned upon from many of the worlds religions, and now if this act is passed leaders of nations both democratic and otherwise will have no say whatsoever on this issue so all nations within the UN both with or against this resolution will be FORCED to comply. I find this to be utmost disturbing and if this passes I will leave the UN. This issue should be determined by each individual nation thus not infringing the rights of all.


Signed,

M

*POST TO THE LEADERS OF NATIONS WITHIN THE UNITED NATIONS REGARDING THE TRANSGENDER EQUALITY ACT*

I find this to be utmost disturbing and if this passes I will leave the UN. This issue should be determined by each individual nation thus not infringing the rights of all.

Emperor Mothy,

My government has recieved your letter to the United Nations concerning the Transgender Equality Act, and though we've not cast our vote, chances are strong that a resolution of this subject would be adopted by the UN. Furthermore, there is a possibility that my government will vote in favour of such a resolution.

That said, we've found your nation's participation in the afairs of the United Nations very rewarding to this body and would like to appeal to you that you consider remaining in the organization even should such a resolution come to pass ... however, noting your strong feelings, we'd actually recommend that your goverment list a public grievence with the resolution and consider partial implementation of the resolution (i.e. find ways to meet it half-way). Then if you find your government disagreeing with *other* UN resolution, should an action such as leaving the UN be considered ... but my government is basically saying, "Give us a few chances." :)

If it helps, there are a few resolutions that my own government is not incredibly happy with. For example, the Definition of Marriage resolution that was adopted in 2004. It seems like a domestic law, in fact, it is written like one. There is no flexibility that my government can see in allowing other nations to decide what the institution of marriage is.

While my government voted in favour, because we do agree that the marriages between travelers in other nations should be recognized by all UN members, Mikitivity does not feel that our some of national policies should become the rule of law for other nation's citizens. Defining who gets the right of medical guardianship (which is about all marriage is good for in Mikitivity) might not work in other socities.

So we do understand your statement, but we'd like your people to remain active in the UN. And of course, we'd invite you to speak against this particular measure if you so wish. We just don't want to see nations packing.

Howie T. Katzman
Office of International Affairs
Confederated City States of Mikitivity

Responce to:

Howie T. Katzman
Office of International Affairs
Confederated City States of Mikitivity


Dear Mr. Katzman,

If not leave I shall endeavor to write a recall, for nations should have a right to choose what they want to do about this matter and not forced. It saddens me to hear that a thing that is considered by some to be immoral would be forced upon all the UN nations. I am not necessarily against this, but I know that some nations will be. So for those nations that wish to do this I say, "sure why not?", but making those nations who wish not have their citizens take part in this is wrong and immoral. Again I believe that we should be free to choose on this and not be commanded to be silent.

requesting that justice be done,


M

Why continue to fawn over a tiny number of mentally defective perverts? Just execute them or deport them all to sad States who will waste there time and money on the Deviant Scum.

No need for a resolution, just get rid of them.


Harry the Bastard
ReichsFuhrer
BastardosLand

Why continue to fawn over a tiny number of mentally defective perverts? Just execute them or deport them all to sad States who will waste there time and money on the Deviant Scum.

No need for a resolution, just get rid of them.


Harry the Bastard
ReichsFuhrer
BastardosLand

I'll tell you once more because I think, even you need help. Certainly noone loves you, so:

I send to you the vibrations of the loving world you're living in. The trees love you, the flowers love you, the fish in the lake love you, the dogs don't love you - but that's just because you smell -, the cows love you, the worms love you, the birds, they shit on you but ... that happens so don't hate them, the wind loves you, the rain loves you, the sun loves you too, and I ... :upyours:

Peace and love

*POST TO THE LEADERS OF NATIONS WITHIN THE UNITED NATIONS REGARDING THE TRANSGENDER EQUALITY ACT*

I infer the purpose of this resolution is to bestow more freedom to nations within the United Nations. After reading the resolution I cannot fathom how this could be so. Changing the gender that one was given at birth is frowned upon from many of the worlds religions, and now if this act is passed leaders of nations both democratic and otherwise will have no say whatsoever on this issue so all nations within the UN both with or against this resolution will be FORCED to comply. I find this to be utmost disturbing and if this passes I will leave the UN. This issue should be determined by each individual nation thus not infringing the rights of all.


Signed,

M


Not voting for this resolution would force people to deny who they are. I find it disturbing that you are in favor of the tyranny of the majority than over individual rights. Transgender people deserve to be recognized, they deserve to reclaim their own self identities and they DONT NEED the permission of the majority to do any of that!


Sincerely
Dee Marx, Prime Minister of ROADP.

Not voting for this resolution would force people to deny who they are. I find it disturbing that you are in favor of the tyranny of the majority than over individual rights. Transgender people deserve to be recognized, they deserve to reclaim their own self identities and they DONT NEED the permission of the majority to do any of that!


Sincerely
Dee Marx, Prime Minister of ROADP.

Deny who they are! They are trying to change who they are! Transgender people do deserve to be recognized! Not changed into what they are not! They would be changing the way they were made which I know more people would say that it is immoral and wrong then people who would want to change their gender. So either way some people will be unhappy and there will be far less unhappy people if each nation got to choose what they want happening in their nation rather than being forced to allow such a controversial thing.

Signed,


M

They are not changing who they are, their bodies are altered to suit their brain sex, which cannot be changed. Its not controversial; people struggle with this for many years , its NOT a pleasant issue and we don't need to put any extra misery on these people by creating barriers for them to access SRS. The time to do the right thing is NOW.

For the record: I do not support this proposal. I am opposed to it on many different grounds, and my reasons for such are far to many to discuss here. However, I realize that this thread was not intended to discuss the ethics of the document, but the syntax, grammar, and composition of the document itself. Therefore I felt compelled to point out a problem with article 4, which was posted as follows:
"Article 4: Everyone has the right to wellness psychologically and emotionally therefore; Sex Reassignment Surgeries and Hormonal treatments should be legal and reasonably accessible to people who have GID. Medical personnel are not allowed to refuse treatments to a transgender person based on discrimination against transgender people"
To begin with, the grammar and sentence structure could use a lot of work; but that's not the biggest problem. It has been suggested that people be allowed sex-changing operations and legal rights in order to promote their "psychological and emotional well-being." In that case, why don't we exclude serial-killers from judicial punishment because murdering innocent people makes them "feel good" and they are mentally compelled to do so. The psychological and emotional status of the mind depends on the reality each person chooses to create for themselves. Now, the most common rebuttle to this statement would be: since everybody is individual and unique, they are also equal and should thus be granted equal rights. Well, that would be a nice suggestion in a perfect world where nobody's actions effected anyone else. We do not, however, live in a perfect world, and the nature of humans is selfishness; which also means they will harm others in order to promote their own well-being. So we can't just go granting free rights to anyone and everyone. Certain standards and rules have to be upheld in order for all those people to peacefully co-exist (at least for the most part). So when you write about granting civil rights or freedoms to all different kinds of people, keep in mind that what many people might believe and/or demand as their rights can also impose upon the rights of others.

I agree they should have equal job oppurtunities, except for when a religion opposes gender changes. Would the church be forced to put them in clergy?

Thank you for your questions.

Churches do not have to accept transgender cleric, just as they do not have to perform same sex marriages even though they are legal.

Signed,
Hermione Granger

It is close to the issue of having nude people on the streets. Think of the children, what they will be exposed to. Each nation got to choose their position about that. Would it be a good idea to say that the government could not do anything about that either?

M

Transvestites are a minority in most nations; it would be a waste of human resources to hold programs and classes in universities/educational organizations that would train surgeons in the study of medically altering human bodies in order to change a sex. Would not that funding be better placed in programs that would train surgeons to save lives? And no, changing someone's sex in order to make them feel better about themselves does not count as saving a life.
The Nation of Barad-Du does not support this proposal in any way.

God made you a man or a woman. You don't have the right to defy God by changing your gender. Gangleonia does not support this proposal.

Transvestites are a minority in most nations; it would be a waste of human resources to hold programs and classes in universities/educational organizations that would train surgeons in the study of medically altering human bodies in order to change a sex. Would not that funding be better placed in programs that would train surgeons to save lives? And no, changing someone's sex in order to make them feel better about themselves does not count as saving a life.
The Nation of Barad-Du does not support this proposal in any way.


It's Transgender, not Transvestites. :rolleyes:

It is close to the issue of having nude people on the streets. Think of the children, what they will be exposed to. Each nation got to choose their position about that. Would it be a good idea to say that the government could not do anything about that either?

M


It has nothing to do with nudity. "Think of the children!" lol. Classic.

It has nothing to do with nudity. "Think of the children!" lol. Classic.

I was not saying it is. I was using that issue as an example.



M

Isn't there already a NS issue about this? I though UN proposals couldn't contradict issues.

Isn't there already a NS issue about this? I though UN proposals couldn't contradict issues.

OOC: UN proposals can't contradict UN resolutions. UN resolutions can and often do contradict member nation's positions on the daily issues.