NationStates Jolt Archive

Lets Mak A Death Sturrr

It's a good idea, however it's been proposed by an idiot!
We need a symbol of knowledge, to unite the world and a world space station can achieve this.
We don't need a station capable of destroying us all.

County Islands, I salute you!

:salutes:

You're exactly right. Fatus Maximus would approve a proposal that calls for an international space station to research new benefits for (insert your species of choice here)-ity. And, if no one has any objections, I would be honored to steal your idea completely and draft such a proposal. (We could co-author it if you want. :D )

Urcea supports the Internation space station. Urcea, however, wants it to have anti-assualt weaponry. Remember, The UN is only 1/3 of the nations. We need to defend outselves from savages.

I'm sure defensive weaponry would be acceptable, provided that it cannot carry out assualts itself, that being a direct violation of the infamous "The UN Can't Have A Military" clause.

Yes, an idiotic clause.

Yes, Defense as in Anti-Assualt. Same thing.

An International Space Station sounds like a good idea. It should be used to enforce whatever UN space regulations are decided upon and the joining of scientific knowledge, etc... only though.

Yes, an idiotic clause.

Yes, Defense as in Anti-Assualt. Same thing.

Part of the game rules, buddy. Wait for Nationstates 2.

We don't need a station capable of destroying us all.
Meh, my orbital fleet will give the Death Star a run for it's money

Ameerikas is in full support of the space station, including arming it with defensive weapons to protect the members of the UN.

It's a good idea, however it's been proposed by an idiot!
We need a symbol of knowledge, to unite the world and a world space station can achieve this.
We don't need a station capable of destroying us all.


The United Nations Space Consortium has been loaned a couple of my space stations for a couple of hundred years to provide them with a platform for future scientific projects.

Better still, Hirota is not paying for their upkeep :)

The United Nations Space Consortium has been loaned a couple of my space stations for a couple of hundred years to provide them with a platform for future scientific projects.

Better still, Hirota is not paying for their upkeep :)
Now that's curious, because when Vastiva offered use of a fully-functioning space-station to UNSC, he was attacked for 'not understanding what UNSC is working for' or something along those lines.

what about those of us who already have a healthy profitable space program?

The PDS already has many space stations, surely we don't need to build another one that we wouldn't have full control over. In any event, a UN sponsored space station would have to be a massive structure in order to accomidate every UN country. Even then space vehicles would have to be created to assist those who do not currently have a space program. It would have to be at a neutral star which has enough resources within its gravitational pull to construct the station.

Our scientists have currently grappled with the idea of how to create such a large structure. Since we are a nation of billions, the idea of building what has been called a "Dyson Sphere" has crossed our minds. for the UN to be able to construct its own space station, you would have to have a structure just as large.

To find a neutral star, with enough raw material to build such a system would take millenia

The Commonwealth of Pontinia is currently gathering funds and resources for a Magnetic Acceleration Cannon, the primary use of which would be to launch unmanned spacecraft into orbit. We would be happy to use it to launch parts and equipment capsules for the ISS. Once it is completed.

While I'm on the subject, does anyone know where I can find several hundred tons of silicate-crystalline superconductor for the coils? There's supposed to be plenty in some of the asteroids between Mars and Jupiter, but the easiest way of getting to them is by using the cannon, so...

The Commonwealth of Pontinia is currently gathering funds and resources for a Magnetic Acceleration Cannon, the primary use of which would be to launch unmanned spacecraft into orbit. We would be happy to use it to launch parts and equipment capsules for the ISS. Once it is completed.

While I'm on the subject, does anyone know where I can find several hundred tons of silicate-crystalline superconductor for the coils? There's supposed to be plenty in some of the asteroids between Mars and Jupiter, but the easiest way of getting to them is by using the cannon, so...

gonna have to get it the old fashioned way of using propellant-based rockets

Ok, this is what I was thinking the proposal would look like.

International Space Station

Category: (I have no idea. We'll need to ask the mods on this.)
Strength: Significant
Description:

RECOGNIZING that there is still much to be learned from experiments in outer space,

NOTING that not all nations have access to outer space,

CONFIRMING the UN's goal of fostering peace and cooperation between it's member nations,

HEREBY CREATES the UN Geosynchronous Space Research Station (henceforth refered to as the UGSRS), allowing researchers from all UN member nations to participate in experiments performed outside the atmosphere,

MANDATES that UN member nations contribute to it's development, whether through assisting in construction and providing raw materials or by contributing monetary funds,

ALSO CREATES the UGSRS Transportation Elevator, a system designed to bridge the UGSRS with the ground to provide a transportation system for moving scientists, cargo, and power between the two,

AND ACKNOWLEDGING that rogue nations may seek to destroy the UGSRS as a symbol of unity between UN nations,

PROVIDES the UGSRS with defensive weaponry and security personnel capable of stopping threats to the station, the weaponry never to be used preemptively or offensively.

Well?

Ok, this is what I was thinking the proposal would look like.

International Space Station

Category: (I have no idea. We'll need to ask the mods on this.)
Strength: Significant
Description:

RECOGNIZING that there is still much to be learned from experiments in outer space,

NOTING that not all nations have access to outer space,

CONFIRMING the UN's goal of fostering peace and cooperation between it's member nations,

HEREBY CREATES the UN Geosynchronous Space Research Station (henceforth refered to as the UGSRS), allowing researchers from all UN member nations to participate in experiments performed outside the atmosphere,

MANDATES that UN member nations contribute to it's development, whether through assisting in construction and providing raw materials or by contributing monetary funds,

ALSO CREATES the UGSRS Transportation Elevator, a system designed to bridge the UGSRS with the ground to provide a transportation system for moving scientists, cargo, and power between the two,

AND ACKNOWLEDGING that rogue nations may seek to destroy the UGSRS as a symbol of unity between UN nations,

PROVIDES the UGSRS with defensive weaponry and security personnel capable of stopping threats to the station, the weaponry never to be used preemptively or offensively.

Well?

OOC: The category would likely be International Security, and I'm sitting on the fence with this proposal. Not sure which way I'll go on it.

My government feels that such a giant effort, causing all UN nations to work together for a single goal, is a wonderful idea. All UN nations would have to combine resources and manpower. This, The Republic of BlueTiger feels, will cause a more friendly attitudes between nations.

You can expect our full support in this endeavor, and we will attempt to get our regional delegate to approve of this as well.

Allan Smith
The Republic of BlueTiger's deputy of Foreign Affairs

Thanks. :D

Any changes you guys think I should make?

Space elevator? As in, the giant pillar of diamond like in 3001: Final Oddessy? Sounds very FT to me, and UN is meant to stay in MT/PMT. Maybe a big magnetic field thingy instead.

We have space stations and nations routinely operating in space. I don't see the point.

Lady Desdemona of Merwell,
Senior UN representative,
The Black New World
Delegate to The Order of The Valiant States.

Space elevator? As in, the giant pillar of diamond like in 3001: Final Oddessy? Sounds very FT to me, and UN is meant to stay in MT/PMT. Maybe a big magnetic field thingy instead.

Actually, space elevators could become a reality in RL in the next 25 years... designs have already been made, it's just a matter of a massive engineering project. It's not too high-tech, just too large a construction project for RL to handle right now... I figure in that if all the NSUN nations contribute to it, there would be no problem in building it. But the elevator isn't a sticking point, I just figured it would be easier than building a fleet of vessels so that scientists from every NSUN member nation can fly to the station.

We have space stations and nations routinely operating in space. I don't see the point.


Ah, yes, but the UN Station would give free access to all member nations, even those who can't afford their own. The benefits from the research there would go to all member nations, not just the nation running the station.

I figure in that if all the NSUN nations contribute to it, there would be no problem in building it. But the elevator isn't a sticking point, I just figured it would be

Last time I was present in a discussion about 'elevators' The Black New World secured rights to build it on our land. Just so you know.

Although that would be inconvenient for anyone who isn't in our country or, indeed, our planet.

Giordano,
UN representative,
The Black New World

Ah, yes, but the UN Station would give free access to all member nations, even those who can't afford their own. The benefits from the research there would go to all member nations, not just the nation running the station.
Don't we already have people to do that?

Giordano,
UN representative,
The Black New World

What do you mean? As far as I know, there's no UN resolution saying nations have to share space research... if this one passes, the benefits from the space station would go to all members, not just ones who can afford to build space stations.

I was thinking the elevator would be build on the same planet as the UN General Assembly. If they can get their representatives here, they can send their scientists.

But don't the The United Nations Space Consortium do similar things?

Giordano,
UN representative,
The Black New World

We, the exalted peoples of North Zerovia declare any space station controlled, financed, operated, inhabited by, benefitting, or advertised to the infidels in South Zerovia will be targetted for immediate and total destruction.

Further, any such resolution requesting funds or assistance from our greatly advanced and most righteous space program will be noted as a distraction from our primary goals for complete and total elimination of cellular phone satellites used for the deployment, distribution, and delivery of the barbaric armaments known as "Ring Tones", and therefore will be deemed a most insidious assault on the freedom and long distance rates of the Peoples of Noth Zerovia.

Considering this, we must uniformly and blanketly oppose a international space station as a threat to our most basic of human rights.

:cell phone goes off playing "La Cucaracha" for several akward minutes while BFFG fumbles in his pocket to answer it:

Huh, wrong number.

As a representative-democratic nation, Boll United cannot support a death star, a satellite run by a small group of powerful nations, with weapons, and therefore capabilities to launch coordinated assaults on small, dissident nations.
I personally (and I am assured that I am not alone in this thinking) feel that extraterrestrial research is best conducted by single nations or small coalitions of nations, with minimal interference by supranational entities only when conflicts arise. That is the stated purpose of the United Nations, isn't it? - to be a moderator, not a super-nation. But sadly, that is what it is becoming.

Phi Rowe of Raskolnikov,
The Rebublic of Boll United

The death-star was proposed by an idiot. That is not the subject of this proposal. The proposal is for a peaceful research station armed only with defensive weaponry to defend it from guys like North Zerovia. This is the working draft of the proposal:

International Space Station

Category: International Security?
Strength: Significant
Description:

RECOGNIZING that there is still much to be learned from experiments in outer space,

NOTING that not all nations have access to outer space,

CONFIRMING the UN's goal of fostering peace and cooperation between it's member nations,

HEREBY CREATES the UN Geosynchronous Space Research Station (henceforth refered to as the UGSRS), allowing researchers from all UN member nations to participate in experiments performed outside the atmosphere,

MANDATES that UN member nations contribute to it's development, whether through assisting in construction and providing raw materials or by contributing monetary funds,

ALSO CREATES the UGSRS Transportation Elevator, a system designed to bridge the UGSRS with the ground to provide a transportation system for moving scientists, cargo, and power between the two,

AND ACKNOWLEDGING that rogue nations may seek to destroy the UGSRS as a symbol of unity between UN nations,

PROVIDES the UGSRS with defensive weaponry and security personnel capable of stopping threats to the station, the weaponry never to be used preemptively or offensively.

I stand by my previous statements. A space station with military capabilities, to be used for "international security", is, to me, in clear conflict with the supposed objectives of the United Nations (and the rule stating that the UN could not have military capabilities).

It honestly has nothing to do with international security. Hotrodders suggested that be the category because I was having difficulty placing it in one. I suppose it makes sense- though not because it's a military presence. By having nations work together, it increases cooperation and thus lessens the likelihood of internal strife between UN nations, so I guess international security is as good a category as any. The space station would be incapable of firing upon earth-based targets- it's defensive weaponry would only be able to fire upon spaceships or planes threatening to attack it. The weaponry isn't evening a major deal- if enough nations second your opinion, I'll remove that clause from the proposal, though that would leave the station defenseless.

I think you may have to get rid of the defensive weaponry and personel to man it. There would be too many complaints that it constitutes a UN "army". Perhaps a FT nation could be under contract to provide security for the station, but the station itself would remain unarmed. I like the elevator. Even though it is a bit PMT, so is the permanent moon base authorised by UN Space Consortium. Speaking of UNSC, it was proposed and passed as a Free Trade proposal. If you can show that the space station/elevator has economic benefits then you might think about that category.

Hmm... thanks for the advice. :D

Alright, I'm scrapping the defensive weaponry, but keeping the security personel. I suppose the research results could supply new technologies to infuse into the private sector... how's this?

International Space Station

Category: Free Trade
Strength: Significant
Description:

RECOGNIZING that there is still much to be learned from experiments in outer space,

NOTING that not all nations have access to outer space,

UNDERSTANDING that new technologies developed from space research have found private sector applications in the past and that products derived from future space research could be infused into the free markets, and

CONFIRMING the UN's goal of fostering peace and cooperation between it's member nations,

HEREBY CREATES the UN Geosynchronous Space Research Station (henceforth refered to as the UGSRS), allowing researchers from all UN member nations to participate in experiments performed outside the atmosphere,

MANDATES that UN member nations contribute to it's development, whether through assisting in construction and providing raw materials or by contributing monetary funds,

ALSO CREATES the UGSRS Transportation Elevator, a system designed to bridge the UGSRS with the ground to provide a transportation system for moving scientists, cargo, and power between the two,

AND ACKNOWLEDGING that rogue nations may seek to destroy the UGSRS as a symbol of unity between UN nations,

PROVIDES the UGSRS with with security personel trained in recognizing and stopping threats to the station.

I like it. Do you think it needs a new thread before you submit it? This thread was started by an idiot, after all. Oh, not to be picky, but you've used "with" consecutively in that last clause (with with).

Whoops. :D I'll start a new thread tomorrow with the final version, which I'll submit after seeing what kind of advice the new thread generates.

Whilst the government of Telidia remain a proponent of space exploration and wish the Fatus Maximus delegation every success we will not however be able to offer our support in favour of this project. Regrettably we have already provided our support for a regional endeavour and as such we feel our priorities must remain with our neighbours to whom we have promised a strong commitment. Due to this commitment our government would not able to accept a mandated program since it is incongruent with our current aims particularly with regard to allocation of resources.

Respectfully
Lydia Cornwall, UN Ambassador
Office of UN Relations, Dept for Foreign Affairs
HM Government of Telidia

Space Stations all good and well, but they must be free of weapons, and must not be used as a war machine.

Rich

Now that's curious, because when Vastiva offered use of a fully-functioning space-station to UNSC, he was attacked for 'not understanding what UNSC is working for' or something along those lines.

Don't know anything about that, and I was on the board when it was created.

I suppose it helps when you are part of the board <shrugs>

As far as I know, there's no UN resolution saying nations have to share space research... if this one passes, the benefits from the space station would go to all members, not just ones who can afford to build space stations.
Not yet, there isn't. Look out for the Technical Advances Act, written by The Commonwealth of Pontinia, coming to a UN near you...

Let this thread die, guys, I've started a new one because people keep confusing my proposal for the idiot "Death Star" one. :rolleyes:

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=435195