NationStates Jolt Archive

Minimum Wage Act (has been submitted)

category=human rights
strength=mild/significant

Realizing that many people have dangerous jobs

Further Realizing that some of these people do not get paid enough for their hard and dangerous work.

Concluding that all UN nations must have a minimum wage deemed acceptable by a commitee of mystical beings.

The Commonwealth of Pontinia's Minister for Industry, Henry Jackson, most heartily welcomes this proposal.

I wonder if this doesn't belong under Social Justice.

We nominate Lord Brythain of Roathin for the position of Mystical Being.

I like the idea but you need to work out more detales


Your Comrade in Arms,
The Iron Curten

This sounds like a good idea, but couldn't we also create universal labor laws also to help the poor everyday worker because we have a lot more powerans say in things than they do.

This Act could be extended to include further workers rights, as well as specifics for said wage.

ugh(coughs) mystical beings? :confused:

if you read the rules they state that all commitees are made up of mystical beings

However you don't have to actually state that in the proposal, it's just automatic.

Bob Flibble
UN Representative

yes but I like the whole mystcal beings

I The People's Republic of Judean Public People Prime Minster agree that this is an excellent purposeal but we muct look at the effect it will have a some countries weak and fragile economeis. We muct be careful it impilmenting such a purposeal as we do not want to but people further into debt.

I will back this casue once the over all effect if the puposeal has has been investgated.

Yours faithfully

PM of the DPR of JPP, Deputy Regional Co-Ordinator of Cill Mhantain with special responsibility for external communication

The United Nations has no right to dabble in indigenous country's economic affairs.

A universal minimum wage is the height of irresponsibility, each country possesses its own innate and unique economic problems.

A mandatory minimum wage will only harm the economies of the world.

The Holy Empire of Clocha Liath will fight all minimum wage legislation, no matter how it is worded or phrased.

We here in Aelov will not accept this draft. It infringes on a nations soveignty and way of life. Some counries don't even have a currency. This proposal also has no backing of facts or even a good reason as to why it should be implemented. Also the fact that it is going to be implemented by mystical beings acts as a coup de gra to not support it.

We here in Aelov will not accept this draft. It infringes on a nations soveignty and way of life. Some counries don't even have a currency. This proposal also has no backing of facts or even a good reason as to why it should be implemented. Also the fact that it is going to be implemented by mystical beings acts as a coup de gra to not support it.


if you read the rules it has to be mystical beings

I am glad that the Holy Empire of Clocha Liath is not alone in fighting this ridiculous piece of legislation.

Aevlov and I shall be working together to ensure that this economic nightmare is defeated, by all the sensible nations of the UN.

A uniform minimum wage will destroy economies and force companies to let people go, thereby triggering economic recession in many places.

What will the proponents of this legislation say to the people who lose their jobs because of it?

I'm sure that you'll agree with me when I say, that it is better to be employed with a low wage, than unemployed, with no hope of getting another job, because companies cannot afford to take staff on, because they are required by law to pay a minimum wage.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, "a minimum wage is the height of irresponsibility."

if you read the rules it has to be mystical beings

You've rather missed the point. The idea is that if committees are established by a resolution, we're meant to pretend that some office somewhere in the UN has chosen appropriate representatives and established the committee as proposed in the legislation. No players need concern themselves with funding or staffing the committee, or role-playing its proceedings (though they are of course free to act such things out in forum role-play). It is as if the committees are staffed by mystical beings appearing from nowhere, because no nations are obliged to bother and yet we assume that the resolution's demands for a committee have been fulfilled.

Actually stating in the resolution that these are mystical beings rather ruins it for those of us trying to go for suspension of disbelief.

:confused: We here in Aelov will not accept this draft. It infringes on a nations soveignty and way of life.

Always, in basically every forum I visited here, there is this talk about sovereignity. The whole thing about the UN is that you accept the fact that UN law is more important than national interests. That's why there are votes in here too ... and I am one who don't like all the poll endings in here.

So, allow this question, if you are worried about your countries own and unbreakable way of life and sovereignity, why are you in the UN anyway?

As to this proposal: The idea behind it, we find excellent and approve fully of it. Nevertheless, it seems rather thin and not very thought out, even if we like the simplicity of it.

Cally24
UN Delegate of the
"Democrats"

We here in Aelov will not accept this draft. It infringes on a nations soveignty and way of life.

Always, in basically every forum I visited here, there is this talk about sovereignity. The whole thing about the UN is that you accept the fact that UN law is more important than national interests. That's why there are votes in here too ... and I am one who don't like all the poll endings in here.

So, allow this question, if you are worried about your countries own and unbreakable way of life and sovereignity, why are you in the UN anyway?

As to this proposal: The idea behind it, we find excellent and approve fully of it. Nevertheless, it seems rather thin and not very thought out, even if we like the simplicity of it.

Cally24
UN Delegate of the
"Democrats"

We nominate Lord Brythain of Roathin for the position of Mystical Being.
Greetings.

We of Roathin are deeply appreciative of the sentiment behind this nomination. Yet we must decline the kind suggestion of our colleague of Werteswandel. We are not a mystical being; rather we are a thoughtful and philosophical being with the misfortune of having daemonic paternity.

Our thoughts on minimum wage are simple: peg it to what is required for survival. Should the job be a full job, then it will allow for survival plus some small increment which is a growth allowance (e.g. 105% of survival minimum). Should the job be a half-job, then it will allow for survival plus the same allowance, divided by two. And so on. This wage can be paid in economic tokens (e.g. money or credits) or in kind (items equivalent to such economic value).

Remember that employers may choose to employ whom they will. What we wish to work toward is that the entire day's provision for a worker should be sufficient compensation to allow continued viability both as a biological organism and as a member of society.

Finally, we note that should a worker not wish to work, he should manifestly not be given sufficient provision by fiat. He should instead negotiate for his life, as every living being does beneath the face of the universal.

So, allow this question, if you are worried about your countries own and unbreakable way of life and sovereignity, why are you in the UN anyway?
Speaking as a sovereigntist I can say that the reason I'm in the UN is because it's pretty much the only thing I actually do here on NS. I would also encourage the rep from Cally24 to read this thread (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=430907) for more details (yes I know that I didn't write it, but I do agree with it).

So, allow this question, if you are worried about your countries own and unbreakable way of life and sovereignity, why are you in the UN anyway?

I'm in the UN because it is tied to regional and international politics. I also believe the UN can serve a generally good purpose.

Just becasue the UN has the ability of overriding national sovereignty in every area of government, doesn't mean it has the right, or that such overriding is prudent and just.

Tell me, does anyone apart from me believe that a minimum wage will do more harm than good?

Tell me, does anyone apart from me believe that a minimum wage will do more harm than good?
We believe that in some situations, a minimum wage law is beneficial. We would point to Roathin's comments earlier in this thread as an example of a sensible way in which to structure such a law.

Just becasue the UN has the ability of overriding national sovereignty in every area of government, doesn't mean it has the right, or that such overriding is prudent and just.

Maybe so, but hasn't the whole idea behind "United" something to do with solidarity? And I don't believe that solidarity is possible if sovereignity is held sacrosaint.

This is the last time I'll intrude in this discussion forum that way, I mean not sticking to the proposed topic, and I excuse myself to the founder of this forum for it. But it's a question that's on my mind for quite some time ...

Also:
Tell me, does anyone apart from me believe that a minimum wage will do more harm than good?.

Certainly not! In the unemployment situation most nations are facing nowadays the majority of people don't get a job, because there is no job for them. I strongly believe that it's only a minority that will take this as a golden opportunity not to work. Selfrespect suffers in an unemployment situation.

I also think that this minimal wage policy should be coupled to tax and other legislation to encourage the privat sector to create new jobs instead of just cutting down on human expenses, as they currently do. Employing a person is taking a responsiblity and no cause to consider men or women only as "human resources".

Maybe so, but hasn't the whole idea behind "United" something to do with solidarity? And I don't believe that solidarity is possible if sovereignity is held sacrosaint.
But solidarity is not uniformity. The United Nations can only remain united if it respects the minority opinions. Like any good government the UN must realize that it isn't always "right", that it doesn't always know what's best for citizens in our individual nations.

This sounds like a good idea, but couldn't we also create universal labor laws also to help the poor everyday worker because we have a lot more powerans say in things than they do.
This is a fair point, why stop at a minimum wage?
Workers are the life force of our economies and should be treated with respect.
Lest we end up like the nation of Torontia which repressed and victimised it's workers. Killing them and using slave labour from a black market in the pursuit of capital.
What is Torontias fate now? It is in the middle of a brutal civil war, with greats losses on both sides.
We as a group need to ensure this doesn't happen again by setting down labour laws.
Also we need to help the workers revolution on Torontia and overthrow the inhumane regime that remains.

The agnositc Deeishpeople wholeheartdly supports this proposal.

I am afraid there may not be enough support.

We must pass this..

this legislation is essentailly about the right to live and it is an important piece of human right resolution!

anyways, how do you put this into a vote? I am new at this.

I am afraid there may not be enough support.
Oh come on! There will be enough support! I've rarely seen a draft more worth proposing. This has got to pass. Even if it fails, it has to be proposed. You got to take the chance cause this is a very important issue!

You have our full support

Cally24
UN-Delgate of the
"Democrats"

Lest we end up like the nation of Torontia which repressed and victimised it's workers. Killing them and using slave labour from a black market in the pursuit of capital.
What is Torontias fate now? It is in the middle of a brutal civil war, with greats losses on both sides.
We as a group need to ensure this doesn't happen again by setting down labour laws.
Also we need to help the workers revolution on Torontia and overthrow the inhumane regime that remains.
OOC: I'm curious, is this based on actual role-play, or just a godmodded bias against Torontia?

Its an actual roleplay, check it out!

Draft- Minimum Wage Act

Yes I agree to the Minimum Wage Act. But I think it's up the nations choice to do so. Each Nation and State has to do what they feel that they need to do for there country. For there state of economic's is there on down fall. Now helping each other is fine as long as they feel that there your not putting yourself at risk of hurting yourself and your poeple.

Now helping each other is fine as long as they feel that there your not putting yourself at risk of hurting yourself and your poeple.

Seems impossible to me to hurt one's people by assuring them a minimum wage ... :confused:

Shouldn't this resolution be a little bit more... definitive?

Maybe so, but hasn't the whole idea behind "United" something to do with solidarity? And I don't believe that solidarity is possible if sovereignity is held sacrosaint.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=8681146&postcount=4

Arguments Related to the Goal of Unity

Of late I have noticed an increasing tendency on the part of those who address national sovereignty to debate the issue in light of the goal of acheiving unity through the NSUN. (That goal is implied by the name of the United Nations.)

Unity Through Sovereignty

Some proponents of national sovereignty have suggested that because of the difficulty involved in and the negative consequences of the NSUN mandating policies for its member nations (due to the overwhelming diversity of biological, technological, cultural, political, and economic needs of those nations), the NSUN should respect national sovereignty in an effort to respect the diversity of the membership. Some have also suggested that respecting national sovereignty would decrease the rancor that many conservatives and capitalists feel towards the NSUN, which would lead to a more unified, rather than divided, body of nations.


You may want to look at the argument for your position as well.

This is the last time I'll intrude in this discussion forum that way, I mean not sticking to the proposed topic, and I excuse myself to the founder of this forum for it. But it's a question that's on my mind for quite some time...

OOC: If you read the stickies thoroughly you may find that it's been on many people's minds for a very long time and that as a result there are many well-developed arguments on the matter. As I recall, The Meritocracy was formed during the early stages of the game because many players felt that the UN was too anti-sovereignty. Gatesville, one of the largest regions in NationStates, is dedicated to bringing down the UN or at least re-making it, and in many cases it's about sovereignty. "Rights and Duties of UN States" was a legislative response to the issue of national sovereignty. I myself wrote the sticky on National Sovereignty and an OOC essay on why I'm a sovereigntist.

I think that we focus on the issue of national sovereignty because it touches the core issue of what the purpose of the UN should be and how we should view the UN, and those are issues that relate to every proposal and make them relevant to every proposal discussion.

Our office will oppose any legislation to institute a minimum wage, though we are reassured that such a wage would be established by the aforementioned mystical beings. In our experience mystical beings are far more reliable than other entities, though said entities tend to be rather boring compared to others and there have been exceptions to the trend of reliability.

Deputy Minister of UN Affairs
Thomas Smith

BlueTiger's government feels this propsal is highly unreasonable because of the differing currencies and ecomies is different countries. 1 Blue in my coutry is worth only .15 of a Cally in Cally24. However it is worth 100 of certain other countries currency. This can't pass simply because it can not work.

Sincerly,

Allan Smith
BlueTiger's Deputy of Foreign Affairs