Proposal: Seperation of Church and State
Scullvania
06-07-2005, 20:20
I just made a UN proposal suggesting that a Seperation of Church and State law is needed.
If you think seperation of church and state is a good idea than go check out my proposal.
Let me know what you think
Florida Oranges
06-07-2005, 20:54
Separation of Church and State
A resolution to improve worldwide human and civil rights.
Category: Human Rights
Strength: Significant
Proposed by: Scullvania
Description: No nation shall make laws concerning an establishment of religion.
No nation shall make laws restricting the free exercise of any religions.
No nation shall make laws requiring mandatory prayer in schools.
No nation shall use citizens' tax dollars for churches.
(for example: If a person is atheist he should not be required to give tax dollars to any church... If a person wishes to give some of his money to a church, he can make a donation.)
No nation shall make laws requiring attendance at church.
The intent of this resolution is to give people the freedom to practice whatever religion they choose (and the freedom to choose to practice no religion at all), and to prevent governments from making laws favoring one religion over another.
In the future, I suggest you copy and paste whatever proposal you're trying to get approvals for. I think I speak for the entire UN when I say most of us are too lazy or too preoccupied to go digging through the proposal list. If you want to generate discussion, that's the way to do it.
With that said, I hope this doesn't reach the floor, and if it does I probably won't be voting for it. I think you need to take into account ethnicity and culture before you delve into this type of argument. By submitting such a proposal, you're showing complete disregard for cultures that may center around religion. You're completely abolishing the rights of theocracies (though they've barely got any in the UN at this point) and stepping on the toes of the deeply religious. All in all, I just don't like this idea.
Texan Hotrodders
06-07-2005, 21:08
I just made a UN proposal suggesting that a Seperation of Church and State law is needed.
If you think seperation of church and state is a good idea than go check out my proposal.
Let me know what you think
1. If you do intend to get this proposal passed, you may want to consider an extensive telegram campaign. You may also want to revise it heavily.
2. In its current state, your proposal would outlaw theocracies, which is as far as I can tell a violation of the UN proposal rules.
3. Here is my suggested revision.
Separation of Church and State
A resolution to improve worldwide human and civil rights.
Category: Human Rights
Strength: Significant
Proposed by: Scullvania
Description: The NationStates United Nations,
BELIEVING that the joining of governmental and religious entities often leads to negative consequences such as oppression, tyranny, and general harm to sovereign individuals.
NOTING that this august body has in the past expressed discontent with those sorts of negative consequences.
ENCOURAGES nations to place reasonable and practical limits on the relationship between governmental and religious entities in the interest of liberty and fairness.
URGES nations to refrain from causing harm to sovereign individuals on the basis of their religious beliefs or lack thereof.
This revision should be legal and much more likely to gain widespread support from the membership of the UN. If you want to make some changes to my revision that's fine. It's written in my style and you may prefer to adopt a style more suited to your own taste.
By the way, people already have the freedom to worship as they please according to the Universal Bill of Rights, a piece of legslation previously passed by this body.
Goobergunchia
06-07-2005, 21:23
Article 1 of Resolution #26, The Universal Bill of Rights
Article 1 -- All human beings have the right to choose worship any faith, and to change their religious beliefs at any time without punishment on the part of the state.
Scullvania
06-07-2005, 21:59
ok you're right... It would outlaw theocracies.
But maybe theocracies should be outlawed.
I'm not stepping on the toes of religous people,
I'm stepping on the toes of those who want to force religion upon people.
Blueshoetopia
06-07-2005, 22:53
ok you're right... It would outlaw theocracies.
But maybe theocracies should be outlawed.
I'm not stepping on the toes of religous people,
I'm stepping on the toes of those who want to force religion upon people.
Maybe they should, that's a different matter. But it's against the rules to do so. However, that could be remedied by removing lines 1 and 4, the ones that make it illegal for a government to establish a church and donate tax money to the church. But then again, that just makes it redundant, because of the bill of rights.
Texan Hotrodders
06-07-2005, 22:59
ok you're right... It would outlaw theocracies.
But maybe theocracies should be outlawed.
I'm not stepping on the toes of religous people,
I'm stepping on the toes of those who want to force religion upon people.
I'm not going to address the question of whether theocracies should be outlawed. That's a political philosophy debate for another time. I just thought you should know that it's against the UN proposal rules. Hope that helps. :)
Scullvania
06-07-2005, 23:39
fiddle sticks... why does "The Man" always have to win?
The Eternal Kawaii
06-07-2005, 23:47
ok you're right... It would outlaw theocracies.
But maybe theocracies should be outlawed.
I'm not stepping on the toes of religous people,
I'm stepping on the toes of those who want to force religion upon people.
As a theocracy, We would like to know if Scullvania intends to outlaw Our nation? And if so, how would they plan to go about it?
Allemande
06-07-2005, 23:51
fiddle sticks... why does "The Man" always have to win?'Cuz "the Man" owns the server.
Scullvania
07-07-2005, 07:42
Ok listen up...
I have personally contacted the dudes who run this site and requested for my proposal to be deleted.
Because ya... I now realize that attempting to outlaw theocracies is against the rules.
and I dont want my Nation to be deleted, because the world NEEDS my nation, because my nation is SWEET.
so ya
But maybe theocracies should be outlawed.
I happen to know of some very nice Rastafarian theocracies.
Scullvania
07-07-2005, 15:41
I happen to think its best to let people decide for themselves what they want to believe in.
We believe that this should be an issue from each nation to decide for themselves not an issue for the UN. We already have religious freedom protected and see no need for more to be done on this issue. While Church and State are seperate in our nation we do not pretend to know whats best for all nations. Therefore we can not support this.
Grand Duke Arthur Hendrik representing the Dominion of Yrneh
Texan Hotrodders
09-07-2005, 08:52
We believe that this should be an issue from each nation to decide for themselves not an issue for the UN. We already have religious freedom protected and see no need for more to be done on this issue. While Church and State are seperate in our nation we do not pretend to know whats best for all nations. Therefore we can not support this.
Grand Duke Arthur Hendrik representing the Dominion of Yrneh
I agree wholeheartedly. I would quickly vote against the proposal were it to reach quorum.
Lanquassia
09-07-2005, 11:44
The Republic of Lanquassia is considering an addmendment to our constitution specifically outlawing the creation and support of any religion by the State. Such an addmentment was never needed, as all Lanquassians believed in the same religion (Of which there are many variations thereof, and none mutually exclusive).
However, we've recently had an influx of refugees from other nations, as well as our colonial expansion in Manium, who do not believe in the same religion.
Who knows.
However, we also believe that it is up to the NATION to decide how to run themselves, not the UN.
As a theocracy, We would like to know if Scullvania intends to outlaw Our nation? And if so, how would they plan to go about it?
Evil: well, we can use nuclear weapons now...
Evil: well, we can use nuclear weapons now...
Greetings.
Although we, by blood and taint half-daemonic, have no great love for organised religion of any sort, we realise the sheer impracticability of separating Church and State universally. We would not support this proposal, as there are cases known to us in which the Lords Temporal (or the Officers of the Secular State) ameliorate the worst impositions of the Lords Spiritual (or the Leaders of Religious Organisations) - and vice versa.
Call us a cynic, but we feel that "as two spent swimmers, that do cling together and choke their art," it is best to unite the two kinds in one organisation as long as the same person does not hold rank in both Church and State. Organisational integration is no bad thing; it is the abuse of multiple powers in one man which most often leads to ruin.
That said, are we not being hypocritical as absolute dictator of our own domain? The answer is no. We are Founder, and Chairman of the Board, and Chief Executive, and Lord - but we protect jealously the individual freedom of our Judiciary and the separate rights of Colleges, Corporations, Guilds and Societies.
Are we fully accountable to our people? We are. Who does the accounting? We do. Does this not lead to abuse? We harbour no illusions that the archmagi, the paladins, the high priests, the other powers - warlocks, and sentinels, and scholars, and princes of the elements - together and singly combined are greater than we are. And did we abuse the people, it would be excuse for our destruction. But we strive to be fair and just, and in that striving, maintain the day-to-day balance of the mundane against the sudden fatal excesses of power.
Nuclear weapons? We laugh in your general direction, not from disrespect, but from a pure and simple amusement.