NationStates Jolt Archive

Name=Space program, inc exploration & research.
Category= Free trade
Strength= significant

With the introduction of a space program with all the countries you would get an enormous boost in the rate of scientific advancements, leading to a grater understanding of our environment that we live in. Also provides all the UN nations the opportunity to work together, so international links will be formed.

I know it would be costly but the results of the research outweigh this. Also the richer more developed nations can afford theses costs.

For all the countries that feel security is a major issue automatic systems that protect against missile attacks & asteroids that have collision courses with earth.

Any thoughts? :)

Refill pad, the protector of cake & carling.

I know it would be costly but the results of the research outweigh this. Also the richer more developed nations can afford theses costs.
And what are developing nations meant to do about the costs? Just cut even more from the health and agriculture budgets?

First of all I am not sure if the UN is the right institution for a project like this. A project with so many nations included would mean a lot of compromise and bureaucracy would became necessary, simply because there would be so many oppinions involved.. Plus there'e the fact that developing nations wouldn't have that much need for it, since I could imagiene that there primary objective is not necessarily the research of space but rather running their own country properly. And a space program started by industrialized nations would work much better on a smaller scale like a region.

Also, Thal_Ixu will only be rallyed to support this if it is strictly meant for peaceful purpose. No weaponry shall be implented, not even if it's meant for countermeasures. Keep space clean of war!

With the introduction of a space program with all the countries you would get an enormous boost in the rate of scientific advancements, leading to a grater understanding of our environment that we live in. Also provides all the UN nations the opportunity to work together, so international links will be formed.

Is this really the best you can come up with? Seriously, you need far more material than that to even make an attempt at this. Plus, not all nations are necessarily capable of dealing with space programs.

I know it would be costly but the results of the research outweigh this. Also the richer more developed nations can afford theses costs.

The richer, more developped nations already have space programs, and quite a few already have space empires. That doesn't help the smaller nations who lack such a program.

For all the countries that feel security is a major issue automatic systems that protect against missile attacks & asteroids that have collision courses with earth.

Which don't help against energy weapons, rail guns, plasma cannons, ion storms, plus-C weapons, etc. The dangers of space are far more than the idea you may run into an asteroid or that someone will launch a missile or two at you.

Any thoughts? :)

Yes. Don't submit.

First of all I am not sure if the UN is the right institution for a project like this. A project with so many nations included would mean a lot of compromise and bureaucracy would became necessary, simply because there would be so many oppinions involved.. Plus there'e the fact that developing nations wouldn't have that much need for it, since I could imagiene that there primary objective is not necessarily the research of space but rather running their own country properly. And a space program started by industrialized nations would work much better on a smaller scale like a region.

Which cannot be done by UN resolution without some really damned good wording and mod approval.

Also, Thal_Ixu will only be rallyed to support this if it is strictly meant for peaceful purpose. No weaponry shall be implented, not even if it's meant for countermeasures.

Have you ever seen what a chunk of rock the size of your pinkie can do when it's travelling at half-C? Or, for that matter, what a chunk of rock travelling at standard natural interstellar speeds can do? Countermeasures are a necessity for anything of any real size. Plus, you will need them anyway when you consider that some of us are fully capable of attacking and destroying small fleets, let alone measly space stations.

Keep space clean of war!

You're a few million years late on that.

so what? the idea to use nuclear weapons against asteroids or whatever else might be coming from space is about as useful as throwing paperballs at running cars to stop them...

to the other remark..well i guess that always depends on the point of view, doesn't it? I haven't really participated in the RPGs here, mostly due to lack of time and also I haven't had contact with any space-empire nations...

I believe you are looking at this proposal from the wrong point of view...most of us are, as far as i know, playing in modern times. So is the UN from what I have seen yet. Therefore to look at this proposal from future tech perspective is probably not that appropriate. No matter how good or bad this proposal is.

Ok ok, costly yes but there’s days communications are a very valuable commodity just to run a phone system in the ‘upside down cake’ region costs millions and that’s just for 4 nations. But the information that is sent and received is of vital importance. High speed satellites communications will be handle much larger amounts of data and transmit it over thousands of miles.

Secondly most people want to know for sure if there is anything ells out there, and if one day we will be able to live on another planet, because the way the advanced nations are using the resources on this planet there won’t be much left for long.

I agree that space should be keep clean of war, but that can only be prolonged, one day war will be wife in space, who knows what for. But if you wish to set up a space protection system, you need the technologies of space travel first. Wouldn’t just a warning in some cases of impending attack or asteroids could be enough to get most people to safety.

If all the nations that are interested in space exploration, research and advancements in communications, for allsorts of uses, come together then I am sure that it can be afforded without any major losses in other areas.

Refill pad, the protector or cake & carling.

I believe that a space programme will open up many areas that have long raised quesitions about the existence of mankind. It will also give us the benifit of faster communications and early warning systems.

well said! :) :cool:

so what? the idea to use nuclear weapons against asteroids or whatever else might be coming from space is about as useful as throwing paperballs at running cars to stop them...

The idea isn't to stop them, but change their course. Your average nuclear weapon is more than capable of that in most cases.

to the other remark..well i guess that always depends on the point of view, doesn't it? I haven't really participated in the RPGs here, mostly due to lack of time and also I haven't had contact with any space-empire nations...

You're talking to one.

I believe you are looking at this proposal from the wrong point of view...most of us are, as far as i know, playing in modern times.

Actually, I'm not. I'm looking at it from the point of view of the idea that the UN is not "Modern tech only." Or, have you failed to notice the fact that many of the recent resolutions don't include ages in anything or that the UN gives rights to clones?

So is the UN from what I have seen yet.

Actually, it's not. It's late post-modern to semi-futuristic. The UN gives rights to clones, allows nations to marry across species borders (in order to allow for human-elf marriages and other such items), includes nanotechnology as a viable research area in fighting certain diseases, and has had multiple attempts at organizing Olympic Games shot down by the species issue (ignoring the other problem of Olympic Games, of course). At one point, it even mandated holotechnology in international libraries, and that one took one hell of a fight to be rid of.

Therefore to look at this proposal from future tech perspective is probably not that appropriate. No matter how good or bad this proposal is.

To look at it from a FT standpoint is perfectly acceptable and appropriate. You may not like it, but you have to face the fact that not even the UN itself is modern tech and that quite a few nations in it have territories in other solar systems.

Ok ok, costly yes but there’s days communications are a very valuable commodity just to run a phone system in the ‘upside down cake’ region costs millions and that’s just for 4 nations. But the information that is sent and received is of vital importance. High speed satellites communications will be handle much larger amounts of data and transmit it over thousands of miles.

Okay, first, satellites are not required for high-speed communications. In fact, they are actually a hindrance later on. Develop your ground-based communications and add in new technology as it becomes available. You'll find that you'll eventually develop a system able to handle three times that of satellites.

OOC: In real life, most of the designs for advanced communications that are able to handle the most amount of information completely ignore satellites, instead focusing on advanced fiberoptic cables.

Secondly most people want to know for sure if there is anything ells out there, and if one day we will be able to live on another planet, because the way the advanced nations are using the resources on this planet there won’t be much left for long.

1. Space, and other planets, are a been-there and done-that. Every planet in the Sol system is inhabited, as well as all of the moons and even parts of the asteroid belts.

2. Resources on NS Earth show no sign of slowing down, let alone dying out.

I agree that space should be keep clean of war, but that can only be prolonged, one day war will be wife in space, who knows what for. But if you wish to set up a space protection system, you need the technologies of space travel first. Wouldn’t just a warning in some cases of impending attack or asteroids could be enough to get most people to safety.

If you wish to set up a space protection system, you just need really powerful cannons aimed upwards. Even graviton shields will notice a projectile the size of a small house hitting them. However, space itself is currently full of war, so it's not a good idea to try not developing protection weapons.

If all the nations that are interested in space exploration, research and advancements in communications, for allsorts of uses, come together then I am sure that it can be afforded without any major losses in other areas.

If it's not mandated, most of them won't.

the problem with this is what time period your running in! personaly im running from a per-modern view

Space exploration would cost a lot of money, money that the people of Lazerland do not feel like spending on unnecessary projects.

It's not my timeframe that's a problem. I'm running a mere seven centuries after the fall of the U.S. and the world descending into chaos and anarchy. Pretty much, timeline-wise we exist at the same time. The problem is my technology base.

Would this resolution conflict or be at issue with UNSC (including, perhaps, doing nothing that the UNSC can't do without it)?

hey i think that space and science is just a dumb idea we don't need it we should focus everything on better the arts that is where i think learning is man .
love
Nakedmidgets

not everybody likes the arts and prefers science! my included :cool:

It's old human shortsightedness again. :(

Investment into a space program can reap valuable rewards. :D

Look around you. I can safely say that roughly one-third of the products you're using right now are the products of the various space programs that we invested in. :D

If a country is too poor to launch one, then cooperate with those that have one already. Europe did that and they got ESA. :sniper:

The whole NASA program only cost the American taxpayer 5 cents. That's the whole NASA budget divided equally among all Americans. :sniper:

Ok, all space programs have their spectacular failures but we learn from it and try to do better. :sniper:

Space programs are risky business but RISK = REWARDS. :mp5:

The only space programme that Ecopoeia will consider supporting - and even then this is dependent on the quality of the text - is one that makes no requirement on member states to make any financial contribution.

Besidies, we already have the UNSC.

Mathieu Vergniaud
Deputy Speaker to the UN

It's old human shortsightedness again. :(

Not really. Many nations need to get established before they can think about space. Oh, and smilies really degrade your point and percieved intelligence.

Investment into a space program can reap valuable rewards. :D

It can also reap your nation being hit by firey balls of doom from the sky until nothing of your nation is left except a field of molten rock.

Look around you. I can safely say that roughly one-third of the products you're using right now are the products of the various space programs that we invested in. :D

I can safely say that most of the products used in my nation result from mining, not space exploration.

If a country is too poor to launch one, then cooperate with those that have one already. Europe did that and they got ESA. :sniper:

Yes, well, the ESA didn't do so hot during World War Three. Apparently, their space vessels don't stand up too well to antiaircraft fire.

The whole NASA program only cost the American taxpayer 5 cents. That's the whole NASA budget divided equally among all Americans. :sniper:

And the NASA program was a spectacular failure, due in part to the American citizens not wanting to pay five cents for it. Ironically, the term "NASA made" still remains in DLE as a synonym for "cheap piece of shit."

Ok, all space programs have their spectacular failures but we learn from it and try to do better. :sniper:

Accidentally forgetting to convert feet to meters and crashing your $70 billion craft into the Martian surface is a spectatuclar failure. Having to scrap your entire shuttle program, and then your entire space program, because a bunch of idiots were too stupid to do proper maintenance and upgrades is a sign you really have no business in space.

Space programs are risky business but RISK = REWARDS. :mp5:

Risk also equals firey balls of doom hitting your nation from orbit. Then again, in some cases, that's a reward.

The point is this:
Of course space exploration has some advantages, risks, rewards and whatever words you may come up with.
The problem is, that it doesn't matter what time frame you're playing in. There are a lot of UN Nations that simply don't care much about space. Me not included, i believe it's fascinating. But to force others to contribute to a space program they don't want and need is simply ridicolous. If a nation or a group of nations wants to explore space let them...but don't force anybody whodoesn't want to do this to participate in a program by making it a mandatory UN decision.

Not sure of this as the cost for a space program is massive and the gains are not as most would assume. We have a vast ocean that is not explored which would be easier and cost us far less to search than space. As we are here and already have many of the active resources to explore the deeper regions of the ocean. Also many of the shore regions have already been explored and some even have bases built below the ocean surface that supply far more than we might find in space in the first year. Here in that year we would be able to explore near 50% of all oceans not charted to date, while if we were in space we would still be trying to get to any planet that might be worth going to...Zarta of the Garne

The assumption that we will reap wealth from space is not practical. The travel time to any world that might provide stable viable resourses would be to great and cost more than profits on what we might gain going there. We have near 3/4 of this planet surface in oceans and we have only explored a small percentage of them. In the time we take to get to another world we could have charted most of that ocean arena. Wasting resources on space travel to explore when we have uncharted regions right here is just that a waste. Also the fear of assault from space is minor when we have weapons that would leave nothing in place an outsider would want once we use them. We need to solve base problems right here before we start looking into space for more and spending funds best used here for trips into space...Zarta of the Garne :p

We already explore and research space. Even though we're not in the UN

The only space programme that Ecopoeia will consider supporting - and even then this is dependent on the quality of the text - is one that makes no requirement on member states to make any financial contribution.

Besidies, we already have the UNSC.

Mathieu Vergniaud
Deputy Speaker to the UN

You mean that group that since it's inception has done absolutely nothing?

Because it does not go into much detail, Dicomte will not support it simply because, well it has no idea as to what this proposal plans to accomplish.

Originally Posted by Refill Pad
I know it would be costly but the results of the research outweigh this. Also the richer more developed nations can afford theses costs.

What are you sitting on a rich deposit of oil or some rare metal that you expect to get rich trading it on the national markets? Thus you will be able to afford these cost... What about the rest of us who would end up spending wasted funds into space that are needed to clean up the areas around us others have drained of these rare metals and oil leaving waste, poisons, toxins,,, on lands that will not support even a trash dump.. they so contaminated. We have problems here on this planet that need our attention and funding..

If we pass some of the coming resolutions then if it uranium you sitting on then you can forget trading it.. As it will be useless to civil nations who obey our resolutions as passed to full terms. No new nuke power plants and thank God no more bombs..

Also look at who is paying more than their share of funds spent by this UN... not the rich nations who benifit most from it but the poor ones suffer most.

Again will say that the time needed to travel to a possible suitable planet could best be used right here on this planet. We have genetic defects in our flesh and refuse to do what is needed to correct that... Stem cell research,, cloning,, just cleaning up our world here.... why go look for more poisons.. or worlds to mess up like we have this one.... I say no funds for empty space.