NationStates Jolt Archive

I'm sorry for intruing on this forum, but Assassin-As-Assassin is about to kill all the Raajjin people numbered an estimated 4 to 5 million people as a contract killing. I need some help, read both pages of this and you will know. http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=424671&page=1&pp=15

THIS GENOCIDE MUST BE STOPPED AT ALL COSTS!!!
WE ARE THE UN, UNLIKE THE REAL ONE, WE CAN'T SIT ON OUR HANDS!!!!

We do not have the military force to spare. Besides, the TPP believes it can handle this, so let them have a crack at it. It should be interesting to see how that goes.

Pardon me asking but who or what is TPP?

Try reading the passed resolutions. There is a topic at the top of the forum that lists them and gives their texts. I suggest you become familiar with them before continuing on this forum, as they are one of the most important items you will deal with on here.

TPP stands for The Pretenama Panel. This is a panel set up to investigate charges of genocide, and has claimed the authority to 'intervene' in nations found guilty of commiting genocide.
There is already a Panel set up, investigating Assassin-as-Assassin. The discussions can be found here (http://s3.invisionfree.com/UN_Organizations/index.php?showforum=48). Hopefully this crisis can be averted.

There are a number of UN members now working to form a panel to *investigate* Assassin-As-Assassin, however, the point of the The Pretenama Panel, a UN investigation body formed after diplomats met in Pretenama to discuss the subject of genocide, is to investigate the crime. Many UN members have concerns (shared by my government) about sending in peace keeping troops before an action has happened -- the analogy would be pre-crime.

With that in mind, the panel actually had several nations drop out (OOC: due to vacation and other commitments), so with that in mind, we need to select a few more nations to serve on the panel.

In the meantime, it is my advice that nations that are interested in preventing this open up a dialog with Assassin-As-Assassin.

Try reading the passed resolutions. There is a topic at the top of the forum that lists them and gives their texts. I suggest you become familiar with them before continuing on this forum, as they are one of the most important items you will deal with on here.

I disagree with the above ... it is rude, and frankly reading all 107 adopted resolutions before jumping in is silly. (OOC: How many American voters actually read through their local State Codes before voting on a state-wide ballot measures? A: very few. NationStates is a political game, and players should be ENCOURAGED to have fun. Key word: GAME.)


Here is my advice, when in doubt, ask a polite question (which you did in this case)! :) If you plan on actually *writing* a resolution, then it never hurts to scan through the prior resolutions or even to read them. If you just wish to lurk and state your government's opinion on whatever subject we are debating, go right ahead.

There are no tests to join the UN.
This is not a special club.
We are a community that is at its best when we work together!

But there are tools that can help you. The United Nations Association, has a series of files for all nations (UN members and non-UN members) that summarize the UN resolutions:

http://pweb.netcom.com/~mierzwa10k/una/

In particular, the UNA-Mikitivity chapter maintains a UN resolution subject index:
http://pweb.netcom.com/~mierzwa10k/una/UNSubjectIndex.pdf

For example, if you wanted to see how many resolutions deal with the subject of genocide, that file lists them as being:

Genocide: The Eon Convention on Genocide (#83), Humanitarian Intervention (#92)

But if you were more interested say in AIDS, that too is included:

HIV/AIDS: Global AIDS Initiative (#32), Increased Access to Medicine (#42), Needle Sharing Prevention (#67), NS HIV AIDS Act (#84)

The United Nations Association also has pdf copies of all of the UN resolutions, divided by the UN resolution subject categories. For example, you can review the International Security resolutions at:
http://pweb.netcom.com/~mierzwa10k/una/IS.pdf

I personally like to print the pdf's as hard copies and read the resolutions that way. The UNA-Mikitivity also goes through and puts notes on some of the more recent UN resolutions, and when possible adds survey data and graphics. A lot of effort is spent to make interesting documents.

If your government is also interested in things like voting trends, the United Nations Association has released one "white paper":
http://pweb.netcom.com/~mierzwa10k/una/una-200501.pdf

The UNA-Powerhungry Chipmunks (a chapter of the UNA based out of that fine country) is working on releasing several other white papers that actually get into much more debate about the NationStates United Nations.

The region of Lemuria also has a world class university with a department about international affairs and the United Nations.
http://s4.invisionfree.com/Lemuria/index.php?act=idx

There are plenty of sources, and I honestly suggest that the UN is more interesting if you play in the waters while also learning. While it is true that there are UN bullies around, ignore them. Ask questions, state your opinions, and remember, your nation has just as much "vote" in the UN as any other nation -- young or old.

If you prefer Wiki's, there is the NS Wiki, which can be found at:
http://ns.goobergunch.net/wiki/index.php/Main_Page

The nation of Goobergunchia is famous for its libraries and expertise in the world of NationStates (Goober runs NS Wiki). I highly recommend the NS Wiki, but I think things like the UNA Resolution Subject Guide can be very helpful. Heck, it is a shame that more experienced diplomats don't thumb through it ... as it is pretty easy to see what we've done before.

Good Luck!

Please note: this is all somewhat off-topic, and very out-of-character, but it does follow on from above. It is not intended to offend, simply to ask a question.

Mik, did you really need to go through with all that spruiking? Flightopia asked a question, and was given responses from three of the regulars here on the NSUN forum. DLE told them to read the passed resolutions, while I went into more detail specifically on TPP and Assassin-as-Assassin. You did likewise.
However, I'm not sure your linking to UNA was required.

Please note: this is all somewhat off-topic, and very out-of-character, but it does follow on from above. It is not intended to offend, simply to ask a question.

Mik, did you really need to go through with all that spruiking? Flightopia asked a question, and was given responses from three of the regulars here on the NSUN forum. DLE told them to read the passed resolutions, while I went into more detail specifically on TPP and Assassin-as-Assassin. You did likewise.
However, I'm not sure your linking to UNA was required.

First it is obivous you didn't read my post ... several of those links were to Goober's material and Hersfold's info. Second, I already explained why I did it.

But I'll repeat it this once:

Why not? I felt that given that DLE was basically telling somebody he / she needed to read all 107 resolutions before participating, that I'd point out that there are other sources of material there that can help players. It is stupid to expect new players in a GAME to first read 107 resolutions -- this is supposed to be fun.

The UN Subject Index is a way that players don't have to read everything, but if a debate pops up, it might be a useful road map.

Look, as I said, I just wanted to ask a question. I am perfectly aware that you linked to much more than just UNA. All I asked was whether it was necessary to make that post. You've answered that question in the affirmative, so I'll leave it.

I disagree with the above ... it is rude, and frankly reading all 107 adopted resolutions before jumping in is silly. (OOC: How many American voters actually read through their local State Codes before voting on a state-wide ballot measures? A: very few. NationStates is a political game, and players should be ENCOURAGED to have fun. Key word: GAME.)

What I said wasn't rude, just simplified. If I had wanted to be rude, I would have said something along the lines of "You obviously didn't bother to read the resolutions, did you?"

My advice actually is a prerequisite for this forum in how we handle day-to-day operations. Pretty much, you have to be familiar with the resolutions in order to get anywhere when it comes to a proposal. You also have to be familiar with the game rules at the top of the forum, while being familiar with the rest of the items is also helpful. These are all pretty much required items of knowledge to get in any further than just the most basic level of interaction.

What you are suggesting is actually an annoyance of games everywhere, specifically in that you are giving a player the advice of jumping in without actually being familiar with what they have to work with. No matter the game, that is bad advice.

There are plenty of sources, and I honestly suggest that the UN is more interesting if you play in the waters while also learning. While it is true that there are UN bullies around, ignore them. Ask questions, state your opinions, and remember, your nation has just as much "vote" in the UN as any other nation -- young or old.

I should also note that a nation should not confuse someone who is just a jackass in general with someone who is out to bully. Just because a person has a bad attitude when they are posting doesn't mean that they are not right.

Also, Mikitivity, remember those conversations we had about you posting way too much information? This really is one of those cases where the amount posted was unnecessary. The topic starter asked a simple question and got two answers, one of which answered the question directly and the other of which directed them to a place where they can get the answers for themselves as well as a wealth of other helpful information. The rest of that information is available in the stickies or in one of a hundred other posts on here.

Why not? I felt that given that DLE was basically telling somebody he / she needed to read all 107 resolutions before participating, that I'd point out that there are other sources of material there that can help players. It is stupid to expect new players in a GAME to first read 107 resolutions -- this is supposed to be fun.

A game can be fun, but at the same times there are always things you are required to know with a game. The game doesn't matter. This can be fun, but if they jump in with ignorance, they'll quickly find this forum to be a place of frustration.

Finally, I would like to advise the following thread to the newbie, in order to prevent them from having problems in the future:

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=423925

Look, as I said, I just wanted to ask a question. I am perfectly aware that you linked to much more than just UNA. All I asked was whether it was necessary to make that post. You've answered that question in the affirmative, so I'll leave it.

My apologies if I came off rude ... I thought you might have been trying to ask me to butt out and I have as much right to this forum as you or anybody else, so naturally I was on the defensive. Especially since you were singling out the UNA and ignoring the rest.

Please keep in mind that unlike a few other guides, the UNA material does not have my name attached to the actual archive files (the white papers are RPed opinion pieces, though I think well worth reading -- they do have "Chapter" names on them). In fact, you should pop over and see what the Chipmunks are working on ... I was blown away by the high quality! :)

I think it is wrong to create something like "Mikitivity's Guide to UN Debates". It isn't what the __United Nations__ is about. I don't like slamming people's resolutions or squashing their ideas ... I'm here as an equal and would honestly like nothing more than to help and encourage newbies! :)

Mikitivity, There was some question as to if you still wanted to be in the Order of the Gryphons. You were accepted, but then you took your vacation and no one has heard anything since.

I think it is wrong to create something like "Mikitivity's Guide to UN Debates". It isn't what the __United Nations__ is about. I don't like slamming people's resolutions or squashing their ideas ... I'm here as an equal and would honestly like nothing more than to help and encourage newbies! :)

The only reason the DLE Guide has my name attached is the fact it is currently a work-in-progress, growing as needed. When the work is completed, I'll either have the thread retitled or repost the guide under a different title. However, that doesn't mean the advice is bad.

Mikitivity, There was some question as to if you still wanted to be in the Order of the Gryphons. You were accepted, but then you took your vacation and no one has heard anything since.

Wow! Cool! This is news to me! :)

I *thought* I checked all my telegrams and forum inboxes, but I'll go back and check Lemuria right now.

Mikitivity, I have a question that is bugging me about this: Why is it you take issue with my naming a guide after myself when you have an entire chapter of your own organization named after you? That is in addition to being in charge of the entire organization and the administrator who oversees the forums on which said organization posts. It's just something that bugs me and that I am asking out of curiosity.

Edit: Considering the posts that came after this, I'm asking for the answer to be TGed. It'll hopefully help lead this back to topic.

Now, posting back on topic: Flightopia, if you have any questions, feel free to PM me. I can answer or at least direct you to someone who does know the answer. I'm sure Enn, Vastiva, and pretty much all of the Old Guard are willing to help if asked.

Mikitivity, I have a question that is bugging me about this: Why is it you take issue with my naming a guide after myself when you have an entire chapter of your own organization named after you? That is in addition to being in charge of the entire organization and the administrator who oversees the forums on which said organization posts. It's just something that bugs me and that I am asking out of curiosity.
I believe I may be able to answer that - UNA is set up with national chapters, each of which is named after the host country. However, Mik's is about the only one that seems to do anything.

I believe I may be able to answer that - UNA is set up with national chapters, each of which is named after the host country. However, Mik's is about the only one that seems to do anything.

Which, of itself, comes back around to my question: Why criticize someone for a measely forum guide that isn't even completed yet when you own an entire UN organization, the forums that organization posts on, and a national chapter of it?

Oh, and getting to the topic, I'm sure you'll agree with what I said about people being willing to answer questions if TGed.

I believe I may be able to answer that - UNA is set up with national chapters, each of which is named after the host country. However, Mik's is about the only one that seems to do anything.

Yeah. Texan Hotrodders has a UNA chapter, but it has barely gotten started and hasn't done much. However, we will soon be releasing A Comprehensive Guide to the NationStates United Nations, hopefully to be out within the next two weeks. Powerhungry Chipmunks also has a UNA chapter, and they are putting out a thorough analysis of all passed resolutions by category. Good stuff.

Say, can we please get back to the topic and away from a thread hijack started on the previous page? The answer to my question is one only one person can answer.

Well this is far from what I hoped to see disscussed. :headbang:

DLE, Mik... it is possible for you two to be in a thread without sniping at each other?

No, don't respond, don't give me the old game of "S/He started it," just knock it off.

I'm sick of this. You two clearly can't stand each other; just leave each other alone.

- The Most Glorious Hack
NationStates Game Moderator

Well this is far from what I hoped to see disscussed. :headbang:

Sorry, mate. I do appreciate you bringing genocide to our attention, and hope you'll let us know if any more genocides are occurring. Feel free to send me a telegram or e-mail [texan_hotrodders@yahoo.com] letting me know of genocide. I'll be happy to pass the info on to the Pretenama Panel along with any links to provide evidence of the genocide.

Well this is far from what I hoped to see disscussed. :headbang:

I'm extremely sorry. :)

I'll ask that a moderator split off my defense of the UNA (and merge it into my old UNA thread) from your thread. And I still will state I think it isn't necessary to read all 100+ resolutions before participating in NS UN activities.

edit: actually I deleted the post and recopied it to the appropriate thread

Well this is far from what I hoped to see disscussed. :headbang:

Agreed. The conversation should never have hijacked your thread.

When it comes to genocide, you have to know there are two basic groups you have to deal with in the UN: Those who recognise the TPP and those who don't. Those of us who don't are a varied group of people, ranging from pretty much the entirety of everyone outside the UN to even extremely active members of this forum. The TPP itself is just as varied as those who oppose it, consisting of peaceful nations that hate using their military working alongside militaristic nations.

Look, I'm not going to bore you with the politics of the situation. I'm not going to give you the myriad of reasons, the sea of arguements, or the encyclopedia of history. Instead, what I am going to do is let you make up your own mind. If you wish to join the TPP, or at least try to help it in some way, try going to their official forums, which are at this address: http://s3.invisionfree.com/UN_Organizations/index.php?c=8 . The period was moved like that to allow for copying or clicking of it. If you do not wish to go the TPP route, you can look around for another group, in some cases not made up of UN members, or simply form temporary coalitions with each situation. The choice is yours to make, and no one should be in a position to dictate it to you.

Otherwise, pretty much a lot of this forum amounts to one of two choices. You can play the petty politics that managed to even plague this topic (note that I am not excluding myself in that accusation), or you can choose to ignore the politics and try dealing with the resolutions and proposals. If you go with the second route, you might go a week without having a resolution brought up and needing to know it to understand every aspect of what is being said. And with the way the UN works, it could be any resolution at any time. Memorizing them is nearly impossible without either a lot of free time or boredom, but at least being familiar with what resolution deals with which issue and how to gain access to the actual text will pretty much help you stand your ground in more than a few arguements. Knowledge of the rules for proposals will help you the rest of the way. The rest of the time is pretty much real-world issues reflecting on resolutions and proposals, so I suggest a very good search engine (Google actually kinda sucks for this).

Once you have those three tools at your disposal and use the rules of credibility (provided in any college or high school class that touches on the subject), you can go full-out with pretty much anyone and hold your own ground.

Oh, and try not to annoy or piss off the mods. They're pretty much the gods of NS.