NationStates Jolt Archive

I have resubmitted my proposal under the above name. A copy is provided below:

DEFINES an infection as an invasion by and multiplication of pathogenic microorganisms in a bodily part or tissue, which may produce subsequent tissue injury and progress to overt disease through a variety of cellular or toxic mechanisms,

FURTHER DEFINES a new infection as an infection that has been immediately discovered and is multiplying in the citizens of a nation

NOTING the many resolutions that help prevent the spread of existing infections or aim at finding a cure for the respective disease,

KEEPING IN MIND that if any delegate wants to build research centers for an existing infection, they may submit a resolution,

FEARFUL of the many new infections that may appear in the future,

DEEPLY CONCERNED that a new infection could cause an outbreak in many nations or regions, or even in the worse circumstances, become a global epidemic, without the international community having any knowledge on how to prevent the disease,

HOPEFUL that if an international committee were set up, they would be able to immediately research these new infections, speeding up the process of finding preventative measures to the infection, or possibly finding a cure,

1. CALLS FOR the formation of the Cures for New Infections Committee (CNIC),

2. APPROVES of a new research facility for the CNIC, to be used for their research,

3. DECLARES that the CNIC will have three objectives

a. Researching new infections to find preventative measures against the infection,

b. Researching new infections to find a cure quickly for the infection

c. Researching current infections when there is no existing outbreak of a new infection, to possibly find a cure or a preventative measure to link to an outbreak that may happen in the future

4. DECIDES that the CNIC will focus on new diseases.

5. AFFIRMS that the CNIC will never create or research the creating of biological weapons to affect the masses,

6. RESOLVES that if the CNIC has found a cure or a preventative measure, they will report to the United Nations, whose delegates will in turn report this finding to their nation.


It is great what the NSUN has done to cure people of current infections. However, there is a great probability that a new infection will arise. We need to be able to fight a new deadly infection as soon as possible to prevent the deaths of all NSUN citizens from a new infection.

The proposal is currently on page 19

Comments welcome below :D

Hurray! A proposal that will finally try to end disease! Although the capitalists will be displeased, I'm sure...

Don't be too happy yet. I'm about to go through it. We have tissues in the back room and have padded the walls in case you wish to curl up into a fetal ball. That's where some of our waveform physicists spend their spare time after every attempt of trying to find a way to adapt humans to laws of physics that normally drive them insane. So far, no luck, but now they're able to see Elder Things without losing as much sanity.

DEFINES an infection as an invasion by and multiplication of pathogenic microorganisms in a bodily part or tissue, which may produce subsequent tissue injury and progress to overt disease through a variety of cellular or toxic mechanisms,

Which does not cover macro-sized symbiotes or macroviruses. But, not that big of a deal. Don't change it to include those.

You might want to consider including mental disease in that definition. It can sometimes spread through a population like a virus, only without an actual physical component causing it.

FURTHER DEFINES a new infection as an infection that has been immediately discovered and is multiplying in the citizens of a nation

Good.

NOTING the many resolutions that help prevent the spread of existing infections or aim at finding a cure for the respective disease,

This has been due to the fact the UN already has a resolution dealing with finding cures to diseases. Those specific diseases are ones that are used to highlight areas that must be primary focuses.

KEEPING IN MIND that if any delegate wants to build research centers for an existing infection, they may submit a resolution,

Or, they can just build them and deal with it.

FEARFUL of the many new infections that may appear in the future,

Not necessary.

DEEPLY CONCERNED that a new infection could cause an outbreak in many nations or regions, or even in the worse circumstances, become a global epidemic, without the international community having any knowledge on how to prevent the disease,

Plays the heart strings. Keep.

HOPEFUL that if an international committee were set up, they would be able to immediately research these new infections, speeding up the process of finding preventative measures to the infection, or possibly finding a cure,

Please, no more committees! They're just as useless in NS as they are in real life. Set up an international disease center or something.

1. CALLS FOR the formation of the Cures for New Infections Committee (CNIC),

Another Useless Committee phenomenon.

2. APPROVES of a new research facility for the CNIC, to be used for their research,

Scrap the committee, make the research facility a priority focus.

3. DECLARES that the CNIC will have three objectives

a. Researching new infections to find preventative measures against the infection,

b. Researching new infections to find a cure quickly for the infection

c. Researching current infections when there is no existing outbreak of a new infection, to possibly find a cure or a preventative measure to link to an outbreak that may happen in the future

Keep, but alter to reflect a change from a committee.

4. DECIDES that the CNIC will focus on new diseases.

Redundant. You already stated this in #3. Remove it.

5. AFFIRMS that the CNIC will never create or research the creating of biological weapons to affect the masses,

Remove. The CNIC has to deal with the possibility that some diseases will be engineered, and they require experience in engineering diseases to properly fight manufactured ones.

6. RESOLVES that if the CNIC has found a cure or a preventative measure, they will report to the United Nations, whose delegates will in turn report this finding to their nation.

I like. Change it to reflect removing the damned committee. Oh, and pay attention to passed resolutions that deal with diseases.

5. AFFIRMS that the CNIC will never create or research the creating of biological weapons to affect the masses,

Remove. The CNIC has to deal with the possibility that some diseases will be engineered, and they require experience in engineering diseases to properly fight manufactured ones.



HISTORY LESSON!

I had to add this line in because when I was writing the draft and posted it, many people thought that this research center will end up becoming a place to create biological weapons.

Okay. Alter the line to state it shall research such weapons only for the purposes of finding cures and counters to them. That'll shut people up.

I have faith it won't :D

Then you have a problem. Either way on that issue, there's going to be an arguement that your proposal has a flaw using the issue of bioweapons. Just be prepared for it.

Then again, any proposal will end up not catering to somebody. I'm just surprised that DemonLordEnigma actually liked a proposal. Wow.

I like, and I will bring this up with The YoungWorld to see if we'll support - however, I would rather support a purposal that does not involve a committe ~ as DLE pointed out, lots of pointless busy work ~ and primarily focus' on the clincal side of it. More science, less politicians.

ALSO - I don't like the restrictions that they can only research new virus'. They should be allowed to play around with other diseases and such.


After those changes, I'll definatly bring it up with the senate. :) (lots of pointless busy work, heh)

Normally, Saint Uriel is strongly against proposals that establish committees or commisions, mainly because the resolution can usually function fine without one. Committees for committee's sake are not good. However, in this case, we see good reason for the CNIC. We also have a great interest in medical research that contributes to the relief of suffering in the world.

Continuing our history and tradition of humanitarianism, Saint Uriel will lend all possible political and economic support to this proposal.

Well done, Holyboy.

Uzbekistan and Solomon']Then again, any proposal will end up not catering to somebody. I'm just surprised that DemonLordEnigma actually liked a proposal. Wow.

:rolleyes:

And you make a cure, we'll configure a disease from it pretty easily. Or, worse, a disease immune to that set of cures. So you're doing some excellent biological warfare research for us, thank you ever so much.

Oh, wait, we call it "enforced medical research". Silly me. :D

The purpose of the CNIC is to co-ordinate what is happening in the research center. Without a specific committee, who would tell them what to research next? Who would tell them if there is something to research? I don't see them as a political committee at all, I see them as a body to make the process faster. Also, the CNIC will tell the NSUN about any new cures that are available, so the doctors can focus on finding a cure instead of telling the world.

PS This proposal is now on Page 16, last one on the page, so please approve :D

Try an international team of scientists and doctors. Get the people whose job it is to be concerned about the health of the people running the show. You may be surprised at how efficient they get when you remove the politicians.

I agree with DLE,

and unfortunatly, I'm going to have to pass on supporting your proposal until this problem is fixed.

OK, here is my list of why we need a committee...

1) To hire the scientists
2) To organize the building of the research center
3) Investigate which diseases need to be studied
4) To organise which infections need more attention
5) Who says these mystical beings won't be scientists/doctors?
6) Tell the world of their discoveries
7) Give to them specific people to which they are accountable for (they actually have to do research, :D)
8) If the above things were done by the NSUN, we would have even mroe polititians (sp?) involved, which is the opposite of what we wanted.
9) If any of the above things were done by the doctors, that would mean one less doctor to do research, delaying the process. meaning more people could die.

PS the proposal is now on page 12, #1

If you insist on a comittee, keep the comittee as doctors so that they are knowledgable on the subject at hand.

OK, here is my list of why we need a committee...

1) To hire the scientists

Let the scientists be volunteers and vote on who stays.

2) To organize the building of the research center

Engineers are also scientists.

3) Investigate which diseases need to be studied

Sounds like a good job for doctors.

4) To organise which infections need more attention

Once again, doctors.

5) Who says these mystical beings won't be scientists/doctors?

It's a committee. That immediately means politicians.

6) Tell the world of their discoveries

Scientists, once again.

7) Give to them specific people to which they are accountable for (they actually have to do research, :D)

Let them organize themselves.

8) If the above things were done by the NSUN, we would have even mroe polititians (sp?) involved, which is the opposite of what we wanted.

The committee is part of the NSUN.

9) If any of the above things were done by the doctors, that would mean one less doctor to do research, delaying the process. meaning more people could die.

Ever hear of multitasking? In this case, you simply have more people on staff than currently projected to cover all possibilities.

Let the scientists be volunteers and vote on who stays.

Maybe you misunderstood what I was saying, but even if you did or not, i will clarify.

The CNIC will hire the scientists for the research center, and they will be payed so their full attention will be on the research. Who would want to do extra research, which means more work, as a volunteer, on a, say, 9-5 schedule? I wouldn't want to. If there is a new infection killing my citizens off, I would want the scientists to work as long as possible to find a cure as quick as i can to prevent my citiznes, my family, and myself, from being killed off. And if they are voting for who stays, they are now becoming politicians within their community, No, i don't think this idea will work.

It's a committee. That immediately means politicians..

I would like to quote the rules on this issue

Committees may be created, as long as certain things are kept in mind: nations do not sit on committees, they are staffed by mystical beings that instantly spring into existance and live only to serve on said committee.

Where does it say the committe has to be staffed by politicians? It doesn't. It says they are mystical beings that are on the committee. That means doctors *gasp* can be on the committee.

However, a ruling on this issue by a mod would be greatly appreciated, as I may be misinterperating this :D

Let them organize themselves.

And they will be perfect people, organizing themselves while researching all day. Sorry, I would be too tired to try to organize myself, and why should I try hard if no one is going to notice? If there is no one looking into this center, then the doctors, being human, will become lazy.

The committee is part of the NSUN.

Please see the above rule. The mystic beings automatically spring up. They are part of the NSUN, but instead of every nation becoming immediatly involved and creating havoc, we can have a committee, staffed by less people then the NSUN, make rulings for us. This would create more efficiancy, possibly saving more lives! That is the important part

Ever hear of multitasking? In this case, you simply have more people on staff than currently projected to cover all possibilities.

OK, i think i see what you are saying, that you can get more people on staff to address the advertising of a new cure quickly, and that is what the CNIC will do in addition to their duties, so instead of the doctors doing the multitasking, they can concentrate on their research and the committee, along with their other duties, will promote a new cure (as stated in the resolution)

First, stick to researching diseases that already exist. If you create new diseases in order to “Preemptively Treat Them” you will find that any number of possible diseases may come in to being and this is wasteful at best.

Second, keep politics out of this, or all we will do is throw away huge amounts of time on diseases best prevented by knowing who you sleep with, while serious diseases are neglected, passed around in crowded cities by slobs who do not cover their mouths to cough.

Lastly, separate research from production. Research should not be driven by profit, but production may be better handled by a well regulated private sector that has an actual motive not to be wasteful and sloppy. An Elephant is a Mouse built to government specifications. So, let the private sector handle production, then send some government mice to keep tabs on them.

First, stick to researching diseases that already exist. If you create new diseases in order to “Preemptively Treat Them” you will find that any number of possible diseases may come in to being and this is wasteful at best.

We are creating this international research center to research new infections that cross borders. I am sure many nations have their own research centers, but this resolution will create an international one, who's specific job is to research new infections quickly, without forcing a resolution to be made for each new infection that will pop up in the future. If you would lile to research a current infection, you may submit your own resolution, as this proposal states.

Second, keep politics out of this, or all we will do is throw away huge amounts of time on diseases best prevented by knowing who you sleep with, while serious diseases are neglected, passed around in crowded cities by slobs who do not cover their mouths to cough.

I am sincerly trying to keep politics out of this, but like any government action, politics will unfortunatly be part of it. I will continue to try to keep politics in this resolution minimum.

Lastly, separate research from production. Research should not be driven by profit, but production may be better handled by a well regulated private sector that has an actual motive not to be wasteful and sloppy. An Elephant is a Mouse built to government specifications. So, let the private sector handle production, then send some government mice to keep tabs on them.

I am unsure of what you mean by this. My interpritation is you want the private sector to research a cure, and have the government regulate it. This does not make sence. This would balloon the cost for the cure, causing many lesser-off citizens to not be able to recieve the cure, which is counter-productive

Maybe you misunderstood what I was saying, but even if you did or not, i will clarify.

The CNIC will hire the scientists for the research center, and they will be payed so their full attention will be on the research. Who would want to do extra research, which means more work, as a volunteer, on a, say, 9-5 schedule? I wouldn't want to. If there is a new infection killing my citizens off, I would want the scientists to work as long as possible to find a cure as quick as i can to prevent my citiznes, my family, and myself, from being killed off. And if they are voting for who stays, they are now becoming politicians within their community, No, i don't think this idea will work.

Unfortunately, the very people you don't want making those decisions are also the only people qualified to make them. With the UN paying them to do the research and their group making all of the critical decisions, you pretty much have a group of people at their most efficient. They will know, from working with each other closely, who to keep and who to remove. And with the idea it's a volunteer basis instead of them being hired by some committee, you can make sure you get people who are actually dedicated to the job and will stay there instead of those who just come for the money.

I would like to quote the rules on this issue

I usually mark my cases where I am quoting the rules pretty clearly. The UN is a group of politicians, and even on the best of days it is rife with corruption, double-dealing, and pork-barrelling. Stop and consider what politicians do in real life and keep in mind that, in spite of the differences in species and technology level, the NSUN is no different.

Where does it say the committe has to be staffed by politicians? It doesn't. It says they are mystical beings that are on the committee. That means doctors *gasp* can be on the committee.

However, a ruling on this issue by a mod would be greatly appreciated, as I may be misinterperating this :D

That rule was actually a compromise, as at the time I was leading a campaign to have committees banned from the game (partially in response to the expanding of the TPP's powers) and there was a heavy campaign to keep them going on at the same time. Hack found two sides unwilling to compromise and did the best he could to address the concerns of both.

However, we can't use what the rules say in this case for the RP aspect of the UN. The committee has to come from somewhere. Most likely, directly appointed by the UN in a series of actions that are taken care of in that magical amount of time between when a resolution is passed and it takes effect. And do you think a group of people so corrupt that the loudest nations are still using biological and chemical weapons in spite of the ban through the magic of interpretation will really look towards what is best for the group as a whole? No, they're going to appoint politicians.

And they will be perfect people, organizing themselves while researching all day. Sorry, I would be too tired to try to organize myself, and why should I try hard if no one is going to notice? If there is no one looking into this center, then the doctors, being human, will become lazy.

If they were perfect people, they'd be too busy clubbing random objects and grunting to be bothered with science.

Something you have to keep in mind: Humanity is a herd species. We have at least three million years of evolution towards group behavior hardcoded into our psyche. The moment a person walks into a room with other people, the first thing they subconciously do is begin searching for their niche in the group. Hell, the moment you came onto this forum you did the same thing, not even knowing that you did it. And keep in mind that this happens so often that most people don't notice it, with the majority of those who do notice it going through the awkward phase of their teen years.

If you stick these people together and let human nature run its course, they'll subconciously organize themselves. They won't even realize they did it unless you bother to point it out.

Now, as for the other species: From what I've seen, all of the natural sentient species are pretty similar to humanity in that regard. For some reason, it's always a heard, pack, or hive species that attains sentience.

Please see the above rule. The mystic beings automatically spring up. They are part of the NSUN, but instead of every nation becoming immediatly involved and creating havoc, we can have a committee, staffed by less people then the NSUN, make rulings for us. This would create more efficiancy, possibly saving more lives! That is the important part

See my arguements above about committees.

They don't create efficiency. All they do is add complication, idiocy, and stress to just about any project. Committees themselves are pretty much the epitome of inefficiency and corruption.

OK, i think i see what you are saying, that you can get more people on staff to address the advertising of a new cure quickly, and that is what the CNIC will do in addition to their duties, so instead of the doctors doing the multitasking, they can concentrate on their research and the committee, along with their other duties, will promote a new cure (as stated in the resolution)

The committee isn't needed for this. You can have the doctors and scientists do it, and with better efficiency as they happen to have first-hand knowledge of what they are talking about instead of having it translated by people who likely have no understanding.

Thank you to everybody who approved this proposal. Unfortunately (or fortunately if your DLE) the resolution did not get enough approvals (at last count, I was 50 short)

I will be resubmitting this resolution in about a month, with some changes to the proposal (yes, I will get rid of the committee. Still don’t think it’s a good idea, but this is politics :D) I will post my new resolution here first for debate (ie you guys find every possible loop hole in the proposal)

With the request of some delegates, I will be TGing nations when I resubmit this proposal at their request. If you would like to be part of this list, please notify me via TG or post. Thanks.

Perhaps limit the committee to recognized researchers in that field. That said, I feel only two of your points on your list of points are valid - #1, #3. I feel the committees job should be to hire new scientists (Unless someone is clearly the boss, it is difficult to remove certain people from any group regardless of whether they are welcome within the group - and considering the dangers of the environment, I don't believe it is acceptable to have that danger there) and to conduct the research for what other diseases need to be considered for treatments (BTW - #3 and #4 are too close for me to consider them seperate points).

i'm wondering how it would be paid for, since taxes are allowed by the UN.

First of all - the UN cannot tax citizens directly - does NOT mean it can't collect taxes from governments.

Second - (assuming the first doesn't matter and taxes are still not being collected) says who that just because it doesn't collect taxes, it isn't funded?

Perhaps limit the committee to recognized researchers in that field. That said, I feel only two of your points on your list of points are valid - #1, #3. I feel the committees job should be to hire new scientists (Unless someone is clearly the boss, it is difficult to remove certain people from any group regardless of whether they are welcome within the group - and considering the dangers of the environment, I don't believe it is acceptable to have that danger there) and to conduct the research for what other diseases need to be considered for treatments (BTW - #3 and #4 are too close for me to consider them seperate points).

#5 has to be valid because many nations thought this research center could build biological weapons. can't scratch that, but i will make #4 part of #3 in some way :D

#5 was invalid in your original proposal because - as DLE noted - politicians would be selected over those who should be doing that job thanks to politics - hence why I feel it needs to be explicitly stated.

In retrospect, my lacking of direct comment on it was....foolish.

Okay, back to the discussion of designer diseases.

The reason why I brought that up as important is a simple fact: When nations realize nature isn't doing the job on its own, they'll decide to give nature a helping hand. In fact, my idea of combining AIDS and Ebola itself is based on a real-world idea for treating lung diseases (http://www.mindfully.org/GE/HIV-Ebola-Vector.htm). It would have already been done by now if the procedure had not been specifically banned due to the possibility the hybrid might mix with the unaltered forms and create a new form of a supervirus, one beyond the capacity of modern medical science to even begin to try to stop, let alone treat or find a cure for. But if medical science saw the risk, how long until some whackjob in the real world attempts it, only without removing the deadly portions of the genetic code?

Thus, the problem is born. Designer diseases have already shown up on NS, but they have yet to gain popularity. Given enough time and someone to specialize in the area exclusively and with an unmatched creativity, and you could soon having designer diseases as being the new form of modern warfare, able to devastate a larger region than a nuke without as much cleanup. Currently, the UN has no capacity to deal with this scenario, as it would quickly end up falling further and further behind as new diseases and new strains of diseases hit the market faster than doctors can find cures.

However, perhaps this may not be a problem. But, at the same time, I wouldn't discount it from happening.

"Do we have that in our 'medicine cabinet'?"
"uhm.... yes, yes we do."
"Good."

Acknowledging that this argument has a weakness due to "intelligence is only so good", but perhaps it should be allowed to research KNOWN designer diseases (as in, ones that have been theorized or created as opposed to sitting in a lab and doing a 5 scientist brainstorm on the matter).

I am unsure of what you mean by this. My interpritation is you want the private sector to research a cure, and have the government regulate it. This does not make sence. This would balloon the cost for the cure, causing many lesser-off citizens to not be able to recieve the cure, which is counter-productive


Universities, Peer Reviewed Journals and the Scientific Community, do good research, but when politicians with funds limited only by their tax inventing creativity, production becomes very impractical. I am reminded of the “Orphan Drugs Bill” in which drugs that treat the rarest diseases received more funding than diseases killing millions of people. Businesses compete and undercut each other price wise and have a motive to be efficient. They need watchdogs to keep them ethical and clean, they need researchers unmotivated by profit to insure unprofitable research is still conducted, but when it comes to production, you can either have someone with a reason to be efficient do it, or you can a government with every reason to be wasteful do it.

If you want expensive cures, have governments with five hundred dollar toilette seats in charge of funding. If you want people to be able to afford treatment, let two or three sources compete, find cheaper ways to manufacture and let the cheapest one sell best, forcing the others to cut their costs.

In fact, the government can contract the company that produces the cheapest product and buy it for the people, so even the penniless can receive it, while the company still gets paid, providing a motive for everyone to work even harder next time.

Trust me, it works much better than a system where the government punishes people for working just so it can waste their money on something the private sector could have done in a way that actually gives more money to the consumers.

Finally!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Someone who is thinking internationally. :) My congratulations to you on your thought process, and the design of this proposal. The delegation from Darkumbria and Northwind most, wholeheartedly, agrees with this proposal.