NationStates Jolt Archive

Discuss. I hate it. We need it repealed. Luckily, on page 12, there is a repeal going against it. How the hell can be illegalize killong dolphins, but legalize killing humans. (I'm pro-dolphins BTW). We need it repealed!

The answer is simple: Dolphins are a valuable commodity capable of reaching sentience. Humans are a dime a dozen and most wouldn't know sentience if they caught it sleeping with their spouse, got beaten up by it, got bitten on the ass by it, and it yelled "I AM SENTIENCE!" in their ear.

I don't mind dolphins, but I disagree with this proposal on two points.

#1, it contains a lie. It claims this will have no negative economic repurcussions on member nations, yet it is more expensive to be ever watchful for dolphins and accomodate their protection.

#2, the UN has never taken up efforts on par with this to protect human life. We still have abortion, genocide, and war. So dolphins have more rights than the young of our own species.

How is it evolutionarily advantageous to foster the protection of another species when that impacts the efficiency at which your own can survive? Humans are an enigma...

First off, I was gone for a week, didn't see the resolution when it came up for a vote, and now I don't see it in the past resolutions...Suggestions?

But commenting on the protection of dolphins without reading the actual proposal:

I agree that there should not be efforts towards the "protection" of these creatures while we are unable to provide protection for man first. Once we safeguard human life from abominations like abortion, euthanasia, genocide, war, in other words, murder, then we can focus on protecting these admittedly remarkable animals. In addition, if it did include a line professing no economic hardship, it is unenforceable, for any effort to protect dolphins that would infringe upon the profits of coorporations or affect international trade could not be supported, as the wording of the proposal would allow only those programs that in no way encumber profits or trade. As no such programs exist, no programs could be enacted. Thus, it is a useless proposal and needs to be repealed (just as soon as I can find it...).

By the way, who made the proposal? I wish to have a discussion with them, if they are not on this forum.

Luckily, on page 12, there is a repeal going against it.

There does not appear to be a proposal suggesting the repeal of "Abortion Rights" on page 12 of the UN proposal list. Would somebody like to state the text of this proposal?

[Lord] Michael Evif
Goobergunchian UN Ambassador

There does not appear to be a proposal suggesting the repeal of "Abortion Rights" on page 12 of the UN proposal list. Would somebody like to state the text of this proposal?

[Lord] Michael Evif
Goobergunchian UN Ambassador
There appears to be a proposal on page 1 that contains the argument stated by the originator of this discussion about humans and dolphins. Perhaps this is the correct proposal?
Category: Repeal
Resolution: #61
Proposed by: Lansingville

Description: UN Resolution #61: Abortion Rights (Category: Human Rights; Strength: Significant) shall be struck out and rendered null and void.

Argument: The first duty of law is to prevent the shedding of innocent blood. It is, therefore, the duty of all civil
governments to secure and to safeguard the lives of the preborn.

Abortion is the unjust taking of an innocent human life. It's Murder!

No one should be allowed to kill a preborn baby any more than he or she should be allowed to kill any other class of human being. We ban whale and dolphin killings. Human beings
should not be treated as property which may be disposed of at will.

Abortion is the preeminent moral and political issue of our day. We must not ignore it! The killing must stop!

If that is the proposal in question, I would have to say that it appears to contain little by way of an argument. Mostly just claiming rights for the pre-born, without an actual explanation of why it is they should have said rights.

What I don't like is the precedent that it sets. We now have a proposal on the floor for protection of all animals, period. Cows, pigs, chickens, etc...If passed would no longer be legal as susitence for those species that consume it for nutrition. This is not at all good, in my opinion. But, the dolphin resolution shows the precedent that this might pass. Scary that my nation soon may have nothing to eat, or I may have to remove myself from the UN, just so that the youth of Darkumbria can get the needed nutrition that they need.

What I don't like is the precedent that it sets. We now have a proposal on the floor for protection of all animals, period.

Not necessarily. We voted for the dolphin protection act out of Our religious necessity to protect cute animals. The precident only applies so far.

Nope. It wasn't that proposal. It was one saying how that nations should be allowed to decide it for themselves. That's a bloody good compromise. Plus, it might have been moved up.

The government of Maineiacs cannot support this proposal. We feel it is hypocritical to outlaw abortion when once one is born, apparently all bets are off.

Darrin Coughlin,
Maineiacs Embassador to the U.N.

Nope. It wasn't that proposal. It was one saying how that nations should be allowed to decide it for themselves. That's a bloody good compromise. Plus, it might have been moved up.
It doesn't appear to be in the proposal list anymore, then. There's nothing with "Abortion Rights" in the title.

Not necessarily. We voted for the dolphin protection act out of Our religious necessity to protect cute animals. The precident only applies so far.

Religious necessity?? That's a bunch of bull. What's next otters? penguins? Squirrels? There is a proposal on the floor now to save all animals. It doesn't matter what kind. And it was all started by the resolution for dolphins. Irregardless of the reason for passing it, any nation whose economy is based upon fish production, of any form, is completely broke. You can't fish in the ocean without catching a dolphin once in awhile.

There was a proposal a while back about recognizing sentient species. If that resolution had reached quorum, and was voted in, none of these cetacean protection resolutions would have been necessary - they are either sentient and then declared "not food" or they aren't (and then you could eat them).

I can not support this proposal and shall vote FOR any repeal to this.

For those of you who are for abortion, i want to ask you these two questions

1) What would the baby choose? To be alive, or die?

2) When does a baby in fact become a human life?

WHat about those of us who do not have dolphins?

This resoluti had no impact on our nation, our sentient marine anmals perrished when our people settled the land long ago. We werent even a soverign nation at that time.

1) What would the baby choose? To be alive, or die?
That's like asking, "What would a rock choose?"
It's not a sentient being for the time period during which most abortions are carried out. It can't choose anything, because it doesn't think.
2) When does a baby in fact become a human life?
I'd say one of the best standards is this:
When it can think.

if it is in international waters they can't do jack to you so you can kill a dolphine in interwaters so haha to that

If a Cobdenian thinks that abortion is immoral, then they don't have an abortion. There is nothing in there forcing anyone to go against any religious beliefs on the subject; yet by illegalising abortion you are criminalising a persons right to chose to think that abortion isn't immoral.

Maybe if youdn't all be so strict about cloning, Then the dolphins wouldnt' be endangered. Ever thinkabout that?

The answer is simple: Dolphins are a valuable commodity capable of reaching sentience. Humans are a dime a dozen and most wouldn't know sentience if they caught it sleeping with their spouse, got beaten up by it, got bitten on the ass by it, and it yelled "I AM SENTIENCE!" in their ear.Indeed. And as evolution teaches us that the weak have to die in order for the strong to become stronger, we should eradicate them all.

Of course, there's this even WEAKER and UTTERLY WORTHLESS people who are so low as to being subjugated by mankind, joining their organisations (I.e. the UN) who should be eradicated first...

Hrm...

Mind if we start with you?

Indeed. And as evolution teaches us that the weak have to die in order for the strong to become stronger, we should eradicate them all.

Not necessarily. The weaker have their uses. Try those first.

Of course, there's this even WEAKER and UTTERLY WORTHLESS people who are so low as to being subjugated by mankind, joining their organisations (I.e. the UN) who should be eradicated first...

You might want to be careful of that. You never know when certain comments come back to haunt you.

Hrm...

Mind if we start with you?

The three-kilometer warship that just appeared in orbit happens to belong to my nation. Considering we believe this to be an open declaration of war but believe it fair to allow you a chance to run, we'll let you choose which of your cities will be destroyed first. And remember: We know the TPP to be powerless, so we won't hesitate to exterminate you.

Oh, and seeing as what species you are, we are going to be employing our knowledge of waveform physics and using the full brunt of our weaponry. BTW- Good luck in trying to find our nation, as most people don't know where to start looking.

A variety of questions were raised. First of all, the DLE ship's crew would most likely wonder where the hell they were.

After all, DLE didn't know where Z'Ha'Dum (Or the handful other bases the Shadows had) were. Nor had it ever searched for them. Nor had it been there in the previous times when the Shadows had been... Active.

Thus, the LE ship... Well, whereever it was, it was in the middle of nowhere, much to the amusement of the shadows.

All in all, the Shadows had a good laugh, watching rather ludicrous actions of DLE through the eye.

Posers.

And LMAO. You just received the 'Suckiest attempt at RP of the day' award. Say, need any lube? Dear god, don't spill it all over the place XD

A variety of questions were raised. First of all, the DLE ship's crew would most likely wonder where the hell they were.

After all, DLE didn't know where Z'Ha'Dum (Or the handful other bases the Shadows had) were. Nor had it ever searched for them. Nor had it been there in the previous times when the Shadows had been... Active.

Thus, the LE ship... Well, whereever it was, it was in the middle of nowhere, much to the amusement of the shadows.

All in all, the Shadows had a good laugh, watching rather ludicrous actions of DLE through the eye.

Posers.

The DLE crew was indeed puzzled, as mere seconds ago they had jumped into Earth Orbit and somehow ended up out in the middle of nowhere without using their engines. Instead of sitting in Earth Orbit and waiting for the inevitable attack, they were now in space that hadn't been charted since the days of Riven. This was indeed puzzling.

OOC: I had intended the implication to be that the ship would be in Earth Orbit, not orbit over one of your planets.

And LMAO. You just received the 'Suckiest attempt at RP of the day' award. Say, need any lube? Dear god, don't spill it all over the place XD

OOC: This is the UN forum. If you want to do serious RP here, you do it in the single topic we have set aside for that. Otherwise, it's considered spam and may get you into trouble. And, yes, I have gotten in trouble before for RPing in proposal topics. Any RP out of that single topic is pretty much limited to nonserious (such as responses to people threatening to leave just because they dislike the resolutions) or IC discussions of proposals. Pretty much, of all of the RP forums, this one has the most unusual ettiquette to it. And, yes, people have gotten banned before for IC threats on this forum in proposal topics. So, really, RP in this case will have to be moved if you wish it to continue.

Of all of the people here, I'm mostly likely to join your side if the UN passes another resolution limiting weapons. Nor am I alone in that. Really, we have several of the more militaristic nations now reconsidering whether or not they should start expanding their territories with the latest wave of resolutions.

Oh, check your TGs.

Given that z'ha'Dum has all of a few agents on earth, earth orbit really wouldn't make sense.

Incidentally, I see your point regarding the UN & RP (I was a little puzzled when you started to reply THAT way. And note that I didn't actually intend to start an actual RP. I just did that when you replies in a mildly, oh... hilarious fashion (The bad kind of hilarious).

The original post was more, ah... Not exactly the serious kind.

OOC: The reason behind Earth orbit is simple: A threat of attack on my nation exists, which would require you to capture the capital on Earth, and it gives me an idea of where you are comming from. Plus, my fleet is spread quite wide due to a little issue of my scifi base.

Heh. The dolphins reply was intended to be hilarious. The UN doesn't hold human life as sacrosanct (euthanasia is legal, abortion is legal, and hundreds of resolutions about extradition have been destroyed because death-penalty nations and nondeath nations refused to compromise), and yet it goes out of its way to protect dolphins. What kind of fucked up scenario is that?

The rest is just my general pessimism about humanity rearing its ugly head. For a species that claims sentience and civilization, we seem to go out of our way to prove that those claims are outright lies. What's sad is that every time I state some pessimistic prediction, the worst possible exaggeration of it comes true.

The UN doesn't hold human life as sacrosanct (euthanasia is legal, abortion is legal, and hundreds of resolutions about extradition have been destroyed because death-penalty nations and nondeath nations refused to compromise), and yet it goes out of its way to protect dolphins. What kind of fucked up scenario is that?

This proves the dolphins' wisdom as manifestations of the Eternal Kawaii?

This proves the dolphins' wisdom as manifestations of the Eternal Kawaii?

Nah. It's further proof of Einstein's Theory of Infinity.

You seem depressed. We recommend seeking out and communing with the nearest manifestation of the Eternal Kawaii. Maybe some dolphins.

Depressed? Not in the least. I've still got my guns.

Well, not having had them reviewed by Our Conclave of Beauty, We don't know whether those are manifestations of the Eternal Kawaii. Maybe if they're particularly beautifully-made ones, pehaps.