NationStates Jolt Archive

By mandate of the Chancellery of The Peoples Republic of Kaapstaat, the Department van Binnelandse Sake, in conjunction with the Staatsekuriteitshoofamptenaar, has conducted a review of the Enodian Protocols, as well as the UN Resolutions currently in effect, and has drawn the following conclusions:

The following UN resolutions must be repealed due to security concerns:
8,10,19,21,26,27,30,40,41,47,52,53,63,
73,80,83,88,92

Resolutions 4,13,18,37,57,58,71,72,89, 96 must be repealed due to economic concerns.

Resolutions 59,65,78,99 must be repealed due to a combination of the above concerns.
It is therefore deemed necessary that The Peoples Republic of Kaapstaat withdraw from the United Nations.

To save time, we are annexing your office and staff. Your diplomat will be mailed to you. Your office and remaining staff will be turned into a brothel.

Oh, and take these top-secret files with you. We knew all of this already.

Now, we just need to get rid of this pesky furniture. Except the desk, as that has a use for it...

Your diplomat will be mailed to you.

Make sure you poke air holes in the box this time; we don't want a repeat of that incident in '87, do we?

Oh, and I'll trade you one attack ostrich, a table lamp and a functioning stapler for the office you've just claimed...

:fluffle: :sniper:

Can I fling moldy cheese at these peeps? :-p

I will give them half of a cookie that may have been licked by a camel once owned by Elvis for not listing my resolution. :)

Why do nations feel the need to advertise their resignation from the UN? Dozens, if not hundreds, of nations join and resign from the UN every day.

Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

No idea really. Maybe another chance to roleplay? They like the spotlight?

Either way its no big deal. I always felt if you don't like something, either except it or help improve it.

By mandate of the Chancellery of The Peoples Republic of Kaapstaat, the Department van Binnelandse Sake, in conjunction with the Staatsekuriteitshoofamptenaar, has conducted a review of the Enodian Protocols, as well as the UN Resolutions currently in effect, and has drawn the following conclusions:

The following UN resolutions must be repealed due to security concerns:
8,10,19,21,26,27,30,40,41,47,52,53,63,
73,80,83,88,92

Resolutions 4,13,18,37,57,58,71,72,89, 96 must be repealed due to economic concerns.

Resolutions 59,65,78,99 must be repealed due to a combination of the above concerns.
It is therefore deemed necessary that The Peoples Republic of Kaapstaat withdraw from the United Nations.


My government is actually pleased to see that of the five resolutions we've authored or co-authored that only one of our resolutions made it to your list. However, of those resolutions, we believe your government's statement that the Ballast Water resolution needs to be repealed due to "Security" reasons, is a flawed assesment. Bearing that in mind, it is my government's recommendation that your government completely restart its analysis and provide more detailed feedback to this body on each and every resolution that the people of your government take issue to. Given that there are several international organizations dedicated to archiving not only the resolutions, but also the debates associated with those resolutions, a young and new nation like yours, might actually find that by looking beyond the now outdated Enodian Protocols, that there may be good reasons for actually keeping some resolutions. In the case of invasive species protection, which was the aim of the Ballast Water resolution, "security" concerns would actually suggest that the resolution stay *on* the books, as the environmental regulations present in the resolution *also* work to reduce terrorism and smuggling by regulating international shipping.

Point of order: The paperclips are mine.

Ooooh, three ring binders.... and they're mine ALL MINE!

MUHUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!


:D

YAY! I got the Beret!
SWEEEET! :D

I call the fridge.

This is a serious conversation so if you are interrupting, please leave so that the conversation can continue w/o the sillyness.

OOC: We're RPing.

IC:They left and we claimed parts of thier office. Not our fault they didn't take it with.

The nations of the UN voted on those matters and so could you. Why complain about the UN when you could try to convince to follow your ideas? You have every right to plead your case, but don't try to end the UN because you are going to get on a lot of nation's bad sides and that isn't the way to go.

Make sure you poke air holes in the box this time; we don't want a repeat of that incident in '87, do we?

I wish I had read that before I mailed them. And to think I entrusted the package to Vastivian post offices...

Oh, and I'll trade you one attack ostrich, a table lamp and a functioning stapler for the office you've just claimed...

How about one of the rooms on the top floor instead? I could do without the 9th bedroom.

This is a serious conversation so if you are interrupting, please leave so that the conversation can continue w/o the sillyness.

Please. If this were a serious discussion, we wouldn't be dealing with the remains of a nation that left and forgot to take its staff and office supplies with it. Now, do you want these file cabinets, or do I turn them into pornographic magazine holders? After all, I must have reading material for waiting clients.

How about one of the rooms on the top floor instead? I could do without the 9th bedroom.
If Cobdenia doesn't want it, I'll give you a case of light bulbs and a baby changing table for it. Anything's got to be better than the boiler room down on sub basement 3 they've got me stuck in now.

You have a point, but you get what I mean, right?

OOC: We're RPing.

IC:They left and we claimed parts of thier office. Not our fault they didn't take it with.

OOC: If this is Roleplaying (from the majority of people) it is poor quality. There is just as much to suggest that they *took* everything, as there is to suggest they didn't.

True it was a "Fire and Forget" post, but why acknowledge it at all with similar tactics if that is what it is???

Roleplaying has *always* been divided into closed and open RPs. At _best_ this is an open roleplay and you guys are just __bad__ RPers. At worst, you've exactly ignored the fact that a newbie has had enough sense to drop the RPed name of the old UN rule set and actually put enough information to divide resolutions they didn't like into __3__ distinct categories.

Now I've never seen a "closed" UN roleplay in my year and half here, but I still think people should respect other people's threads.

I've "IC" Roleplayed a challenge. What I've seen from just about everybody else amounts to nothing better than yelling, "Don't let the door hit you on the way out." To be blut, I agree with that sentiment, 100%, but it is counter-productive *and* frankly it is really no better than the person who posted and left to just ignore the fact that *this* is one of those rare times when a disgruntled newbie has shown *enough* evidence that he / she did in fact read *some* of the forum rules and resolutions.

I wouldn't be a bit surprised if the nation was a puppet of a longer-term player, but to brush off this throwing people out of windows and fighting over office supplies crap as RPing really is a __poor__ reflection on our collective ability to take criticism from another player. Months ago Frisbeeteria *asked* that this sort of thing be toned down a bit. Personally I don't mind people blowing off steam, but consider this, if this really is the best "diplomatic" roleplay you can offer, don't you honestly think this sort of thing is just going to encourage dismissive behavior in other threads, like the resolution debates or draft proposal discussions.

Like resolutions, the quality of posts or "Roleplaying" in this forum goes in trends ... if people want to lower themselves to godmodding and killing ambassadors, it will spread into the debates as well. It *always* has.

The nations of the UN voted on those matters and so could you. Why complain about the UN when you could try to convince to follow your ideas? You have every right to plead your case, but don't try to end the UN because you are going to get on a lot of nation's bad sides and that isn't the way to go.

Thank you. My government agrees with the opinion from Napoleons llama. The strength of the UN comes from having many members of different viewpoints advocating and striving to compromise on international laws.

That said, my government suggests any nation that is frustrated with the UN should stay in and consider focusing on a smaller number of resolutions and be very specific in your government's reservations with those resolutions.

We can only *guess* what complaints might be if they are not delivered to this assembly. And it is my long standing opinion that UN diplomats are diplomats because our guessing abilities make us poorly suited for the stock market. ;)

I'm glad that I share the same opinion with someone.

OOC:

Mikitivity, you'll have to excuse me on this one, but in this case you really don't know what you are talking about.

You are giving a lecture on roleplaying in a portion of the site that really isn't intended to be heavily on the roleplaying. That's part of why some of us mix IC/OOC so much that little distinguishes the two at times (and why I mark comments that are intended as pure OOC asides).

This isn't just a case of roleplaying. This is a case of making a point. What we have is a person who, by all appearances, thought themselves so important that them leaving because of passed resolutions would actually be effective. The reality is that they are not. Neither is anyone else on here. About the only important person who is a regular is Hack, and he's not technically a UN member.

The point is pretty clear: The topic starter is not important. At all. Until they posted, I'm willing to bet that most people here didn't even know they existed. And no one is affected by them leaving. What they did is, frankly, one of the most dishonest and disrespectful things you can do, and as a tactic it is often used as one of the prime marks of trolldom. If this were some of the other sites I post on regularly, they would simply be banned to make sure they cannot return.

The main point is a demonstration. Making this person an example, so that future people hopefully get the hint. Hell, in the past I've outright told people to leave when they threatened to as a way of trying to use the tactic to win the viewpoints of others. I see, from the last two resolutions, I will have to start doing that again.

So what if they have a bad opinion of us? So what if they tell their small group of friends? What can they really do? What they have done is something that doesn't deserve respect, admiration, or even really the honor of the time of day. It isn't something we should be nice over. It is spam and a plague of the UN that should be eradicated with a zealousness matched only by the Inquisition. Hell, take a look at the last two resolutions and count how many people threatened to leave because of them. It's not an acceptable tactic and us being nice on this thread would only create the lie that it is something people can pull and expect us to give a damn about.

To be honest, the only people I see causing harm are the people taking this seriously, as they are the ones sending the message that the idiotic tactic is acceptable. It is not those of us who are mocking that are sending the bad signal, as we are sending a clear message that this kind of cheap trick doesn't work.

OOC:
Mikitivity, you'll have to excuse me on this one, but in this case you really don't know what you are talking about.

You are giving a lecture on roleplaying in a portion of the site that really isn't intended to be heavily on the roleplaying. That's part of why some of us mix IC/OOC so much that little distinguishes the two at times (and why I mark comments that are intended as pure OOC asides).

To be honest, the only people I see causing harm are the people taking this seriously, as they are the ones sending the message that the idiotic tactic is acceptable. It is not those of us who are mocking that are sending the bad signal, as we are sending a clear message that this kind of cheap trick doesn't work.

Like hell I don't. Let's be perfectly clear here. My first response in this thread was IC. It wasn't until a few of you started responding to *another* complaint about your behavior that I, as you called it, "lectured" you on how your responses are __not__ roleplaying.

First, Frisbeeteria has *more than once* complained about this sort of attitude. With a few exceptions, younger forum members do tend peek in and follow the "style of posts" of high post count forum members.

Second, what makes somebody LISTING out a very specific list of resolutions in three different categories and saying that his / her government is forced to leave the UN as being idiotic? Free speech, gives a player just as much to want to explain why they are leaving the UN as you have to flame and mock them, but in this case, you all are overreaching ... this was not just a "You all suck" post. There was detail, and it was in-character.

Third, when somebody fires a cheap shot at you, you don't have to always get the "last word" in. It comes across as a bit insecure. But if you really want to discourage cheap shots, sometimes meeting them in a less confrontational way can actually yield positive results.

To borrow from real life, I love nothing more than when somebody will yell out: freak, or fucker, or moron, etc., only to just ignore them. But the minute I turn around and say, "Yeah, say that to my face you arsehole!", I've validated their action. If instead I just keep walking or ask them why they've said that, it more often than not gives them reason to pause and reconsider what they've done. Besides, what do I care if somebody I've never seen before and never will see again thinks I'm a loser. Does it really matter???

The opinions we care about are the ones that come from our friends and people we respect. That is why it hurts when they say things that we aren't ready to hear. In this case, I'm a bit worried that some many players gang banged a June 2005 newbie because he / she issued a public (RPed) statement.

The statement of withdrawl that was issued from the UN __is__ roleplaying, and in this case it was a somewhat detailed statement. Not a very detailed, but it was detailed enough in that it listed specific resolutions. Frankly it wasn't close to the "The UN sucks" posts you are talking about. And it was much more detailed than the replies from the "The UN doesn't suck" crowd.

Just because it is roleplaying you happen to dislike, doesn't mean it isn't roleplaying. This forum is a mix, sure. Some threads and posts are RPed. Some aren't. When a player says, "My government has reviewed ... and formally resigned its UN membership today." that is designed to be RPed.



Take a minute to re-read the original post in this thread. A skilled Roleplayer never just __assumes__ that when somebody says something that they can then just start writing about what happens to this other player's "characters". In the International Incidents forum skilled RPers will often *ask* when jumping in to a new RP.

While it is possible that some of you telegrammed this newbie to ask if he left his desk empty (which I seriously doubt in this case), I'm damn certain that most of the replies were motivated by nothing more than "Don't Let the Door Hit You On the Way Out." I felt it too ... but you didn't see me flame the newbie.

Believe me, I didn't like that this particular complaint included SOOOOO DAMN many resolutions. The UN is something I love in this game just as much as many of you. There is being picky and then there is just being impossible to accomidate, and a list that long, honestly is impossible to accomidate. But instead of mocking the poster, I figured I'd actually take this as a change to open a dialog on a few of those resolutions. *AMAZING* *GASP*



My advice: learn to accept the _fact_ that many NationStates players don't care for the UN resolutions nor the UN forum. Some of these players will come here and tell us this (they do it on IRC on a regular enough basis -- where most of the UN resolutions are often considered to be very poorly written -- an opinion I do not share). Just because somebody might not like something that many of us spend HOURS A DAY playing with, doesn't invalidate the fun we get out of the forum. Poo-pooing on an anti-UN newbie isn't going to discourage anybody from expressing their dislike of the UN, but it does make __us__ come across as insecure and closed minded.

I don't mind coming across as a grumpy old man ... I *am* a grumpy old man. But I'm neither insecure in criticisms thrown at me or the parts of the game I happen to like -- if they are valid complaints, I'll learn from them, if they aren't, I'll march ahead.

In this particular case, I looked at the list to see my favorite resolutions and how they fared (sp?). I was curious and guessed that this player actually did take the time to read the old resolutions! :) Some of them escaped complaint, some of them were included. Did you ever think of asking why some resolutions were not included in the list?

Now being the author of five resolutions, I felt I could best defend those ideas. So naturally I focused just on those __in character__.

Frankly, I didn't mind that Ballast Water (ghost written by me) was on his / her hit list. But I honestly hoped that the player does come back and tell me what he / she doesn't like, as I think I can still learn from constructive critism. But I doubt THAT will happen now. :(


All that said, you guys can play this game however you like, but how are you any different than the "UN sucks" posters if you respond to _detailed_ roleplaying based pieces with the "Well you suck" type of post? I don't honestly see how this can _not_ have a negative influence on other areas in the forum.

OOC:

For the sake of my Gods, please, tell me, what is so horrifyingly bad about giving someone shit when it's so well-deserved? When did this forum require that one insert a long metal pole into one's...anatomy in order to post on UN issues. The fact is, as DLE stated far more eloquently than I can right now, a nation felt that leaving the UN would somehow cause an immediate stampede to repeal the offending resolutions. That is the exact behavior that this forum should vigorously discourage. I leave the means to individual posters, but the "office ransack" pseudo-RP on the UN forum combats an overinflated ego with a bit of levity and entertainment, which is a welcome departure from the drear that seems to cover the threadlist of this forum lately.

Personally, I have no problems having an IC discussion about an original or repeal proposal (and I use the word "original" loosely here to refer to any non-repeal). But when someone thinks that their newbie nation is somehow on par with forum regulars and that they carry the same level of influence, they need to be shown otherwise, however gently (or not) people think. And lest I be tarred as a "forum royal" who disdains new blood, I'm still new blood. I managed to gain "regular status" after two to three months, and I did it by observing and limiting my comments to things that were either substantiative or witty, if not both. If one lacks the second ability, that one should stick to the first.

In conclusion, I have no sympathy for either the "poor newbies who can't be bothered to read the stickies" or the "rules-lawyering" that seems to have the UN by the proverbial jugular now. I wish we could have the interesting debates that led to the ULC and the UNWODC resolutions, and a bit less on same-sex marriage, abortion, and dolphins.

Mikitivity, I'd quote your post, but to be honest, I'm too damned lazy.

First- There wasn't a few of us. There wasn't even three of us. There was two of us, only of one whom was actually addressing the point while the other was posting what is an obvious IC reply (part of why I did not respond to the last post made by Napoleons llama). Two do not make a few. And even then, the amount of information put into your reply was over the top, which is one of the things I get tired of hearing people whine about when they talk about posts in the UN forum (mostly resulting in replies from myself that discourage it, due to my honor code).

Second- Yes, Frisbeeteria has complained about it. So have a lot of people. And you know what? We have a case of mixed messages here, where we have Hack participating in it for what I can safely assume to be reasons only Hack knows and which may be very different from my own. In a conflict of examples, the higher mod wins. Fact of life, no matter what system you are in.

Third- Okay, a little point you need to realize: This is a privately-owned website. Free speech does not exist here. Only what the mods allow to be said. The mods here are just quite willing to allow items. Otherwise, there is a specific reason as to why it's idiotic: It's just another post of the category of nations who use UN politics, specifically that they are not getting what they want, to leave the UN. It's a tactic I have no respect for because of how it is used on here and the extremely large number of trolls I have seen use something similar. It's a disrepected and disrespectful tactic, and I will not stop my campaign to eliminate it. If people dislike UN rulings, they are free to leave without announcing it.

Fourth- The comment about slights reveals a lack of experience in internet matters. The fact is not responding in many cases makes you look worse if no rules are broken, while in other cases it is simply fun to do.

Fifth- The internet is a place of reputations. I have one I have worked long and hard to cultivate, and work into the position it is. Unlike real life, I cannot simply protect it by ignoring comments I dislike.

Sixth- So are the hundreds of other threats of leaving the UN. That still doesn't make them legitimate. It only makes them a widespread problem.

Seventh- We didn't jump on him because we dislike what he said. We jumped on him because the tactic he used. What he said could have made for an interesting thread and possible repeal effort.

Eighth- Mikitivity, you have missed an important point: This isn't true roleplaying. This is making an example of someone in an effort to make a point. The agenda here isn't to target him, but to send a message that this tactic is not one that will be effective and not one that will get respect. If the point gets across, we won't have every resolution spammed with threats to leave.

Ninth- Look, I don't care that he had a list of resolutions to repeal. We all do. Much of my effort on here is self-interest primarily and attempting to prevent earlier mistakes from repeating, as with this current resolution up for vote. I take issue, as I have said repeatedly, with the tactic.

Tenth- If you're going to use items that get across a foul meaning, just use the foul language. Using "poo-pooing" doesn't help, as I have to recheck the name to make sure I'm not speaking to someone immature. This is not something I'm trying to require, just a piece of advice.

Eleventh- The fact that most nations dislike the UN is something I take advantage of. You have no idea the number of agreements for dividing the UN I have made under DLE's previous incarnation for in case it ever fully disarmed, and some of those are still viable. You also have no idea the promises I had to make in order to spare some nations. It is ironic that I choose a peaceful incarnation for my nation only to have the warrior previous incarnation come closer to having its plans come to fruition.

Do I dislike that he hates the UN? No. My primary alliance hates the UN with a passion. And they have enough firepower per member to level the entire Sol system.

Twelfth- This having affects on the rest of the forum is the point. The idea is to discourage a certain tactic. It's not something people like (or that I have enjoyed doing in this case), but it's something that has to be done.

I want the plastic Jesus hanging from the wall.

OOC:

For the sake of my Gods, please, tell me, what is so horrifyingly bad about giving someone shit when it's so well-deserved? When did this forum require that one insert a long metal pole into one's...anatomy in order to post on UN issues. The fact is, as DLE stated far more eloquently than I can right now, a nation felt that leaving the UN would somehow cause an immediate stampede to repeal the offending resolutions. That is the exact behavior that this forum should vigorously discourage. I leave the means to individual posters, but the "office ransack" pseudo-RP on the UN forum combats an overinflated ego with a bit of levity and entertainment, which is a welcome departure from the drear that seems to cover the threadlist of this forum lately.

In conclusion, I have no sympathy for either the "poor newbies who can't be bothered to read the stickies" or the "rules-lawyering" that seems to have the UN by the proverbial jugular now. I wish we could have the interesting debates that led to the ULC and the UNWODC resolutions, and a bit less on same-sex marriage, abortion, and dolphins.

But let ask you this ...

Q: Do you know that the newbie who started this thread "felt that leaving the UN would somehow cause an immediate stampede to repeal the offending resolutions"?

Seriously, that is a huge assumption on your part.

As for your "pole", it is ENTIRELY coming from people who feel threatened. OMG! Newbie says he / she hates the UN! Quick get a rope, let's gang-bang 'em as an example to future newbies!

Think about it logically!

Newbies aren't going to even *know* that an example was made out of a previous newbie. That is why they are newbies. Or are you guys planning on asking Fris or Hack to stickie the threads? Yeah, right.

But those players that stick around will begin to see that RPing in this forum is the exact same as godmoding. "If somebody says something you don't like, shoot them."

The original post was:

- A Formal Issued Statement, aka Diplomatic Roleplaying
- Designed to make a statement on a specific list of resolutions
- Responded to in a much more hostile tone than the original post

It is very presumptious to assume that the author figured this would change matters _or_ that there was even an office and dipomatic to pillage or whatever else.



As for wanting quality debate, I completely agree with you. "Office wanking", which is all that I'm complaining about, isn't roleplaying, it isn't debate. It sure as hell isn't why I think most of us come to this forum. Even then, the Stranger's Bar was created over a year ago to be the place for players who LIVE and BREATHE in this forum to let loose and screw around. That is a far better place than hijacking somebody's thread.

If you guys want to office wank, turn it into a RPed story. Make it consentual ... hell, find people find it interesting and do something with it.


I'd love to see people actually try to hash out an agreement on a draft proposal and carry it forward, and not feel so threatened by a _random_ criticism of the UN.

I seem to be one of the few, but I'm still very curious about why that particular sub-set of resolutions was singled out. The player wasn't just bashing environmental resolutions: the Banning of Whaling escaped mentioning. And Ballast Water has nothing to do with Refugees.

I'm honestly hoping the person comes back and responds to the serious comments and ignores the wanking.

Anyways, I'm done with this thread. If you are curious about my opinion, it is all up there -- and I'll be happy to talk elsewhere, as I'd like to STOP hijacking somebody else's RPed international statement.

OOC:

Who's feeling threatened here, Mik? It certainly isn't me. Annoyed at yet another "I'm leaving!" post? Certainly. Subtly irked that I'm being preached at in a sanctimonious manner by you? Absolutely. Threatened? By what? Last time I checked, "I'm leaving" wasn't a phrase that triggered my fight-or-flight response. If anything, it's another's admission that they've chosen "flight" 'cause they can't handle the "fight". I couldn't care less. In fact, without looking, I couldn't even tell you who posted their little rant on this thread in the first place.

As you said in your earlier rant, if this is a roleplay thread, then it's open. So be it. "Pillaging the office" isn't exactly a new phenomenon 'round these parts. Why is it suddenly an issue now? Dare I suggest that it has more to do with who is doing the office pillaging rather than the act itself? Since even a game moderator can joke around on this thread, maybe it's not the second Conception (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=423764), all right? Lighten up a bit.

I want the plastic Jesus hanging from the wall.

"Plastic Jesus? All yours, friend. "

*tosses the remainder of the "battle plans" all marked And if they won't acceed to our demands, we'll LEAVE THE UN! into the fireplace and sets them ablaze*

"A might warm for June, but it will spare housekeeping having to dispose of them as toxic waste."

By mandate of the Chancellery of The Peoples Republic of Kaapstaat, the Department van Binnelandse Sake, in conjunction with the Staatsekuriteitshoofamptenaar, has conducted a review of the Enodian Protocols, as well as the UN Resolutions currently in effect, and has drawn the following conclusions:

The following UN resolutions must be repealed due to security concerns:
8,10,19,21,26,27,30,40,41,47,52,53,63,
73,80,83,88,92

Resolutions 4,13,18,37,57,58,71,72,89, 96 must be repealed due to economic concerns.

Resolutions 59,65,78,99 must be repealed due to a combination of the above concerns.
It is therefore deemed necessary that The Peoples Republic of Kaapstaat withdraw from the United Nations.

Would you be interested in joining the National Sovereignty Organization? I have the feeling we could use you over there, and you don't have to be in the UN to join.

How about one of the rooms on the top floor instead? I could do without the 9th bedroom.

Done. That's better, I have an office now.

I'm sure a bit of Polyfiller will sought out those bullet holes. That Satanic Pentagram painted from human blood will have to go too; bleach should do it. As for those used coffins in the corner, well, I'm sure that someone will want them. And how exactly did you manage to get pancreatic secretions on the ceiling, DLE?

Pancreatic secretions? Oh, I see. That's blood. Or at least, that's what we're calling it for the moment, as "vile ichor from beings of madness and eternal damnation" doesn't have the same shortness to it. The last time we checked, you needed a sand blaster to remove the stuff. The good news is that it glows at night, and the horror-inducing whispers have dropped to happening only on the phases of the moon.

Let's just say the source of that blood is the reason we try to stay away from the edges of the galaxy. The center's not any better, but at least the ones there are scientific and can be reasoned with. Turns out the laws of physics are not universal after all.

Turns out the laws of physics are not universal after all.

Ah! That explains why my yo-yo doesn't work up here...

I got dibbs on pornos and any booze in his office. ;)

Well, I hope everyone got that out of their systems. I will now state our reasons for leaving the UN as well as why I chose to post notice of our departure.

First, let me point out the obvious.....I am, in fact, a noob. Kaapstaat is not a puppet of any other country.

Second, I am playing a game. That's all it is people, a game. After reading all the UN resolutions, I came to the conclusion that the UN's views are very different from my own, and therefore, that of my people.

Third, posting our intentions to leave the UN was not meant as a protest, an insult, or complaint. The UN's laws aren't for us, so we're leaving. Plain and simple. I'm not going to engage in name calling or any other negative behavior with those who do not share my views.

As far as being a troll, I have absolutely no idea how you came to that conclusion after reading my post. In fact this was meant as a "fire and forget" post and I honestly did not expect a single response. Thats why I haven't been back to this thread until now.

So, why did I post? Well, in the League of Nations or the UN, when a member state leaves, they don't decide to simply not show up for work on Monday, they state their intentions. Thats what I did.

As far as the furniture is concerned, you can keep that particle board veneer crap if you like. We don't want it or need it anymore.

<b>Mikitivity:</b>

we believe your government's statement that the Ballast Water resolution needs to be repealed due to "Security" reasons, is a flawed assesment. Bearing that in mind, it is my government's recommendation that your government completely restart its analysis and provide more detailed feedback to this body on each and every resolution that the people of your government take issue to. Given that there are several international organizations dedicated to archiving not only the resolutions, but also the debates associated with those resolutions, a young and new nation like yours, might actually find that by looking beyond the now outdated Enodian Protocols, that there may be good reasons for actually keeping some resolutions. In the case of invasive species protection, which was the aim of the Ballast Water resolution, "security" concerns would actually suggest that the resolution stay *on* the books, as the environmental regulations present in the resolution *also* work to reduce terrorism and smuggling by regulating international shipping.

Upon discussing the matter with the Sekretaresse van Verdediging (Secretary of Defense) and the Kommandant Admiraal van die Vloot (Commanding Admiral of the Fleet), I have been reassured that this is in fact a security concern. Without divulging military secrets, I can say that the reasoning behind this has to do with submarines.

Remember kids, it's only a game...

After reading all the UN resolutions, I came to the conclusion that the UN's views are very different from my own, and therefore, that of my people.

Third, posting our intentions to leave the UN was not meant as a protest, an insult, or complaint. The UN's laws aren't for us, so we're leaving. Plain and simple. I'm not going to engage in name calling or any other negative behavior with those who do not share my views.

-snip-

So, why did I post? Well, in the League of Nations or the UN, when a member state leaves, they don't decide to simply not show up for work on Monday, they state their intentions. Thats what I did.


OOC: I'm glad you did. I personally think the UN forum needs more connection to the actual game in a lot of areas, disagreements over what the UN legislates and nations leaving the UN among them. I'm delighted you've continued posting in the thread, and that you provided information about why you originally resigned. I, for one, will certainly take your complaints into consideration.

IC: Outgoing Powerhungry Chipmunks UN representative Johan Arnaen is grieved to hear of Kaapstaat's decision, but ultimately respects the right and reasoning behind that decision by Kaapstaat.

Our International Department sends a fruit basket.

Our international department sends a fruit basket.
Several large, beefy, Frisbeeterian aides-de-camp; sent by MJ Donovan, chief of the Greater Frisbeeterian delegation; stand guard over the fruit basket to prevent it too from being stolen.

The government of Super-power commends you for withdrawing. Our mother nation was a member and suffered the consequences, prompting we of Super-power to secede.

We commend any nation for taking the first step to restoring national soveriegnty.

Several large, beefy, Frisbeeterian aides-de-camp; sent by MJ Donovan, chief of the Greater Frisbeeterian delegation; stand guard over the fruit basket to prevent it too from being stolen.
You don't have to worry about me stealing the fruit basket, now if it were a chocolate basket on the other hand...

*sends the Flibbleites representative a chocolate basket filled with marshmallow eggs*

Well, I hope everyone got that out of their systems.

Second, I am playing a game. That's all it is people, a game. After reading all the UN resolutions, I came to the conclusion that the UN's views are very different from my own, and therefore, that of my people.

Third, posting our intentions to leave the UN was not meant as a protest, an insult, or complaint. The UN's laws aren't for us, so we're leaving. Plain and simple. I'm not going to engage in name calling or any other negative behavior with those who do not share my views.

So, why did I post? Well, in the League of Nations or the UN, when a member state leaves, they don't decide to simply not show up for work on Monday, they state their intentions. Thats what I did.


OOC: You rock! :)

It takes a bit of courage to come in and respond to a thread after being attacked as a troll, and I personally am now sad to know that your interactions with the UN will be as a non-member (and possibily limited). But I am glad you posted here!


Upon discussing the matter with the Sekretaresse van Verdediging (Secretary of Defense) and the Kommandant Admiraal van die Vloot (Commanding Admiral of the Fleet), I have been reassured that this is in fact a security concern. Without divulging military secrets, I can say that the reasoning behind this has to do with submarines.

Surely there is a way that you can explain in further detail how protecting whales is related to domestic or international security because of submarines. The reason my government questions this logic is we feel that it is possible that your government may be misjudging the content and impacts of several UN resolutions, and if provided more information, we'd like to have the chance to *change* your government's decision to leave the United Nations.

That said, if your government would rather enter into private deliberations, I'd be happy to send a representative that can explain the Mikitivity interpetation of UN resolutions and why my government, isolationist in nature, remains a pro-active UN member.

Finally, if we can not interest Kaapstaat into returning to the United Nations as a full member, we'd like to ask that Kaapstaat consider joining some of the UN sponsored organizations which were not included in your list of complaints, as an official observer state. In particular, Kaapstaat could become a valued member to the International Red Cross Organization or to the United Nations Disaster Assesment Organisation (NDAO).

http://s3.invisionfree.com/UN_Organizations

These organizations do not require members or observers to hand over domestic / sovereign rights, but rather represent international cooperation in very specific areas of concern.

Your government may also be interested in the National Sovereignty Organization (NSO).

In any event, I do hope that with time that your government can come to respect those of us that decide to remain in the UN.

Dennis hears loud muffled yelling and a series of thunks and crashes down a corridor that he has yet to navigate. Patsy and Jester, his two pet badgers, pull him towards the noise.

He sees the retreating backs of several delgates, deep in argument, exiting an unoccupied office. Jester breaks away from Dennis' grasp and runs into the recently evacuated office. The badger wrestles open the lower drawer of a filing cabinet using his jaws, jumps in, and starts pawing through what looks like magazines, tossing random issues onto the floor as he makes an impromptu nest.

What's this? Dennis thinks to himself, picking up an aged issue of "Jugs" magazine. "Come along, Jester," he says, pulling on the badger's leash. "There's nothing here for you." He notes the number of the office door. But there seems to be something in there for me .

Well, I hope everyone got that out of their systems. I will now state our reasons for leaving the UN as well as why I chose to post notice of our departure.

It might have helped if you had posted those in the beginning. Then again, maybe not.

First, let me point out the obvious.....I am, in fact, a noob. Kaapstaat is not a puppet of any other country.

Damn. Looks like I won that bet.

Second, I am playing a game. That's all it is people, a game. After reading all the UN resolutions, I came to the conclusion that the UN's views are very different from my own, and therefore, that of my people.

Playing the game does not make all actions justifiable. If you openly flame someone in a horrible matter, it usually stops mattering whether or not it's a game. The same is true if you pull, as you did, a tactic of newbs that is openly disrespected and is actually a disease the forum suffers from. Mercy was not earned or shown.

Third, posting our intentions to leave the UN was not meant as a protest, an insult, or complaint. The UN's laws aren't for us, so we're leaving. Plain and simple. I'm not going to engage in name calling or any other negative behavior with those who do not share my views.

There is that lovely resign button for those cases. It is all you need. As for this: The appearances remain what they were to begin with, and the results will not change.

As far as being a troll, I have absolutely no idea how you came to that conclusion after reading my post. In fact this was meant as a "fire and forget" post and I honestly did not expect a single response. Thats why I haven't been back to this thread until now.

In which case, most of what you posted in your first post were unnecessary. A simple "I'm leaving the UN because I don't like its policies" is amazingly effective and gets the same thing across. Despite you not wanting it to appear as it did, even with this post the appearance doesn't change.

So, why did I post? Well, in the League of Nations or the UN, when a member state leaves, they don't decide to simply not show up for work on Monday, they state their intentions. Thats what I did.

Common mistake. This isn't the real-world League of Nations or UN. In this case, you choosing to use that resign button have the same effects.

As far as the furniture is concerned, you can keep that particle board veneer crap if you like. We don't want it or need it anymore.

No problem. We're already using it as an advertisement.

It might have helped if you had posted those in the beginning. Then again, maybe not.

Actually they did post their reasons in their opening statement.

You might want to actually read it, so I'm copying it here for you:

The following UN resolutions must be repealed due to security concerns:
8,10,19,21,26,27,30,40,41,47,52,53,63,
73,80,83,88,92

Resolutions 4,13,18,37,57,58,71,72,89, 96 must be repealed due to economic concerns.

Resolutions 59,65,78,99 must be repealed due to a combination of the above concerns.


That is 32 resolutions out of 107 that have passed (not including the few that have been repealed). These 32 resolutions are available to all. The Kaapstaat ambassador even told us the general complaint their government has can be described as being primarily: economic, security, or both. It was clear (as I said many times to a closed set of listeners) they *wanted* a dialog.

When directly confronted about the issue of ballast water, the ambassador did provide to this assembly a hint that the security issue related to ballast tanks had something to do with submarines (a mistake on my part was to confuse their response with whaling, which they did not protest).

The info is there. Being rude about it is not going to help matters!

Actually they did post their reasons in their opening statement.

You might want to actually read it, so I'm copying it here for you:

The "reasons" mostly amounted to a shortlist of resolutions they disagreed with for reasons that still sounds like they were using their resignation as an attempt to try to get the UN to repeal certain resolutions. The idea of concerns is not, in the first post, clear enough to determine whether it is the concerns of the individual nation or the concerns of the UN. Considering the style of the post and comparing it with previous posts that use resignation as an attempt to change UN policy, the only logical conclusion at the time was that this person was merely doing that same thing and that their reasons were purely childishness. Even now, that conclusion is not entirely discredited.

That is 32 resolutions out of 107 that have passed (not including the few that have been repealed). These 32 resolutions are available to all. The Kaapstaat ambassador even told us the general complaint their government has can be described as being primarily: economic, security, or both. It was clear (as I said many times to a closed set of listeners) they *wanted* a dialog.

No, it was clear the post was a one-shot. The topic starter themselves even admitted it. Dialogue was not part of their agenda.

When directly confronted about the issue of ballast water, the ambassador did provide to this assembly a hint that the security issue related to ballast tanks had something to do with submarines (a mistake on my part was to confuse their response with whaling, which they did not protest).

Yes. It requires them to make alterations to the ballast tanks of their submarines and gives enemy nations enough information to easily compromise ballast tanks and the submarines. Except, of course, the fact the entire resolution has to do with commercial ships, not military, and I doubt anyone would use subs commercially.

The info is there. Being rude about it is not going to help matters!

The information present is insufficient to support the conclusions you have stated.

Okay, fun is fun, but this has deteriorated into personal sniping.