NationStates Jolt Archive

Lodged this morning. It's a grand idea with no negative commitments necessary:

Fusion Energy Initiative
(Reduces barriers to free trade and commerce mildly)

THESE UNITED NATIONS

WHEREBY UN Resolutions 39, 71, and 72 willfully encourage responsible renewable energy research, sustainable energy sources, and reduction of greenhouse gases, respectively.

WHEREBY UN Resolution 2 allows scientists and engineers to work and collaborate freely throughout member nations.

RECOGNIZING advancements by the fusion science community in preparation of a viable, completely safe, non-proliferating, clean, inexpensive, virtually limitless source of energy.

RECOGNIZING the International Thermonuclear Experimental Reactor (ITER) proposed by the fusion science community is a continuing effort to create a "burning plasma," the next step of research to achieving fusion as a viable source of limitless energy.

RECOGNIZING technologies and sciences developed may be beneficial to other benign industries.

RECOGNIZING the widespread use of an inexpensive, abundant energy source may allow energy-limited economies to fluorish.

HEREBY organize an international collaboration of scientists and engineers to lead the development of fusion science through the construction of the proposed International Thermonuclear Experimental Reactor and future experiments, to be funded at-will by member nations and/or private agencies.


I need support on this, and I'll be happy if it gets to the floor. Please keep in mind that contrary to my nation title, it is a peaceful endeavor for the benefit of the world.

At first glance, this appears to be an excellent idea, and indeed it may be. However, the Principality of Quadlia wonders from where will the funding for this research be obtained. Once fusion is successful as a large-scale energy source, what does Thermonuclear War feel the UN's role should be in introducing this energy source into member nation's power grids? This question need not be addressed in the proposal, but is four our own information in the development of a position.


Quadlia

please note that there are doubtless some nations who will claim they already have this technology.

I say claim because I don't recognise their claim, but it's their right to claim it if they want. ;)

But I'd vote against this simply as it would damage my Uranium mining, in which Hirota is a world leader. But it is well written.

please note that there are doubtless some nations who will claim they already have this technology.

I say claim because I don't recognise their claim, but it's their right to claim it if they want. ;)

But I'd vote against this simply as it would damage my Uranium mining, in which Hirota is a world leader. But it is well written.

Indeed, many nations do have the technology; (whether in use, or not). Pretty much any FT/FFT nation-state will have, or had fusion based energy production technologies (though most FFT's would no longer use such technolgy).

... an excellent idea.... However, the Principality of Quadlia wonders from where will the funding for this research be obtained. Once fusion is successful as a large-scale energy source, what does Thermonuclear War feel the UN's role should be in introducing this energy source into member nation's power grids?

Funding is not directed by the U.N. Scientists, engineers and staff wages, construction, and operations costs will be supported voluntarily by member nations and private sectors supportive of the advancement of this technology. There is confidence in the availability of funding for basic research. The provision only organizes the central development of the technology.

In the future, as fusion proves to be a viable, reliable, and abundant source of energy, the U.N. may one day direct nations on how to integrate this technology through alternative energy resolutions, but implementation is not directed by this proposal, only the advancement of science and technology.

Bluntly, organize a push to develop the enabling science now, and let nations implement as they see fit.

On a personal scientific note:
The widespread use of nuclear fission (not fusion) may ultimately be limited by NIMBY factors, and considerations of proliferation and waste management. Fusion fundementally sheds these issues. The overall economic benefits of inexpensive, abundant energy will surely overcome the losses in the singular industry of uranium mining.
In addition, modern fission power plants (see: Breeder Reactors) do not require uranium to operate, potentially minimizing the losses to the uranium mining industries from the use of fusion. Again, benefits to the environment, economy, and safety (non-proliferation) far outweigh the losses of a small portion of a single industry.

The proposal is worthy of the U.N. floor.

While the Principality of Quadlia is not, of yet, convinced to support this proposal, we do not feel it is of such a nature that we should oppose it. We have therefore officially given approval of the proposal in order to help keep it alive until such time as it may come to a vote. At that time Quadlia will vote either yea or nay as the course of further debate indicates to be prudent.


Quadlia

Encouraging the development of new technologies is a good idea for a proposal, but I would prefer to see a proposal that approaches the issue from a broader perspective that promotes improving technology in general rather than a specific type of technology, and in addition recognizes national sovereignty.

Encouraging the development of new technologies is a good idea for a proposal, but I would prefer to see a proposal that approaches the issue from a broader perspective that promotes improving technology in general rather than a specific type of technology, and in addition recognizes national sovereignty.

Would have to agree. This is far to specific of an issue. It also doesn't provided enough financial support for it to work.

This proposal protects the right of financial sovereignty of member nations. Participation in funding is non-compulsory.

Fusion isn't the perfect solution it's often touted as, so why not encourage research into a range of alternative energy resources? I'm going to direct you to my response to a similar recent proposal:

I seem to remember reading something about it not being practical to contain all of the high-energy neutrons emitted from a fusion reaction, so that there would be quite a lot of radiation coming out of the power plant.

Plus I found this in Wikipedia, indicating that there is a potential pollution danger if everyone starts using fusion power - which is what you appear to be encouraging:

Effluents during normal operation
The natural product of the fusion reaction is a small amount of helium, which is completely harmless to life and does not contribute to global warming. Of more concern is tritium, which, like other isotopes of hydrogen, is difficult to retain completely. During normal operation, some amount of tritium will be continually released. There would be no acute danger, but the cumulative effect on the world's population from a fusion economy could be a matter of concern. The 12 year half-life of tritium would at least prevent unlimited build-up and long-term contamination.

Also, isn't there an inherent danger in maintaining a plasma at very high temperatures and pressures? What if the container failed after a few years of holding out against such conditions?

Finally, these things would probably use deuterium, which is generally obtained from water. I know that we don't exactly have a shortage of the stuff (on Earth, at least), but if we rely long term on turning our water into helium might this not have unforeseen impacts on various things, including climate (which would be ironic, given that nuclear fusion is often touted as a replacement for global warming-causing power sources)?

Whilst it does offer potential and I have nothing against continuing research, nuclear fusion is not a perfect solution to our problems. I'd prefer something encouraging research into all alternative energy sources.

As a fusion scientist in the real world, I often enjoy enlightening common misconceptions the public has about our science. Please allow me to disect your concerns to address them properly.

I seem to remember reading something about it not being practical to contain all of the high-energy neutrons emitted from a fusion reaction, so that there would be quite a lot of radiation coming out of the power plant.
Current fusion research studies the deuterium-tritium fusion reaction, which can yield a small number of fast neutrons. Safety precautions are used and any radiation is absorbed safely by lead blankets. Planned power plants will use a different fuel which yield no neutrons.

Effluents during normal operation
The natural product of the fusion reaction is a small amount of helium, which is completely harmless to life and does not contribute to global warming. Of more concern is tritium, which, like other isotopes of hydrogen, is difficult to retain completely. During normal operation, some amount of tritium will be continually released. There would be no acute danger, but the cumulative effect on the world's population from a fusion economy could be a matter of concern. The 12 year half-life of tritium would at least prevent unlimited build-up and long-term contamination.
See above. Future fuels will realease no tritium.

Also, isn't there an inherent danger in maintaining a plasma at very high temperatures and pressures? What if the container failed after a few years of holding out against such conditions?
Plasma confinement science IS fusion science. The science to be developed is, in large geared on how to maintain high temperature gradients in reactors. Currently, if the confinement were to fail, the plasma simply touches the reactor vessel, and ceases to be. No explosions. Plasmas are operated in extremely high vacuums, not high pressures. A vacuum failure would let air into the chamber, with no catastrophic consequences. Leaks can be monitored. No explosions.

Finally, these things would probably use deuterium, which is generally obtained from water. I know that we don't exactly have a shortage of the stuff (on Earth, at least), but if we rely long term on turning our water into helium might this not have unforeseen impacts on various things, including climate (which would be ironic, given that nuclear fusion is often touted as a replacement for global warming-causing power sources)?
Deuterium naturally constitutes about 0.02% of all hydrogen atoms. The water supply is not in danger. Helium would be produced in miniscule quantities. What would not be used in other industries (advanced materials production) could be safely released into the atmosphere where it exists naturally (helium makes up 0.0005% of the atmosphere, we couldn't dent that amount of tonnage in tens of thousands of years of continuous energy production)

...it does offer potential and I have nothing against continuing research....
Support is always invited, as is understanding.

I would also like to tackle an unmentioned misconception fusion reactors. Unlike fission reactors, in which enough fuel for about two years is kept in the operating reactor, fusion reactors only contain enough fuel for about a second. If something catastrophic were to occur (earthquake, tornado, etc), a fission reactor could potentially accidentally release two years worth of energy in one event (see: China Syndrome), while a fusion reaction would quickly fizzle out without incident.

Fusion is currently imperfect, but perfection through research is not far away, and the benefits are plentiful.

Hirota- Quite a few MT NS nations have the tech as well. They're just more advanced in nuclear sciences than you.

Thermonuclear War- You must not have read my guide. Otherwise, you wouldn't have instantly disproven your entire arguement by posting that first paragraph. I'll make it a point to make sure you get a chance to read it.

Cobdenia hasn't even discovered fission technology; we are quite happy with our coal power plants.

After doing some light investigation, I see somehow since I last played NS, a multitude of chronological cataclysms must have occured.

So, everyone that lives in the past time zones doesn't really need to worry about this. They may look forward to it.
This proposal will help the current folks out a great deal.
Folks that live in the future can check their history books to see this proposal as a major turning point in "ancient energy production history," as it seems that forms of fusion are used widely in the future.

Thermonuclear, that would be fine if it weren't for my nation. I use the Linking Books from Myst as my primary method of colonization. One of their properties is that you describe the world you want and they reach through time and space to find the closest match.

I see little to fear in this proposal and will recommend that my government supports it. I should clarify that the senior Speaker may hold a different view on the matter.

Mathieu Vergniaud
Deputy Speaker to the UN

The problem is that by encouraging research into Fusion power, Cobdenia would have to research Fission power first; which means we would, naturally, learn how to make nuclear bombs.

You really don't want us to have nuclear capabilities. Our Generals are quite reckless...

OoC: It is a very good resolution; which I support.

The problem is that by encouraging research into Fusion power, Cobdenia would have to research Fission power first; which means we would, naturally, learn how to make nuclear bombs.
...
OoC: It is a very good resolution; which I support.

That's along the same lines of logic as "I need to have a radio before I can have cable telelvision." Development of fission technology is not a prerequisite to viable fusio technology.

The Protectorate of Thermonuclear War, the scientific community, and I thank all delegates who have supported this initiative's chance to be reviewed by the U.N. membership body.

Development of fission technology is not a prerequisite to viable fusio technology.

Not true. Develop of fission technology is the primary prerequisite for fusion technology. Let me explain.

In most timelines, fusion power plants are developed from fusion bombs. A fusion bomb is also known as a thermonuclear bomb or a hydrogen bomb, or simply "Oh my fucking god we're all gonna die!" The reason why this is amounts to an amazing paradox of nature: It is easier to build a bomb using fusion than it is to build a power plant using fusion. Another reason this is amounts to the fact that most fusion bombs are developed from fission bombs, which are usually the first fission technology a nation develops, as a means of trying to make bigger bombs. Note that in no timeline is it possible for fusion bombs to be developed first, as the fusion bombs use information gained from the fission bombs to be developed.

Now, there is a reason why a nation cannot develop fusion first: All of the necessary processes learned in the development of fusion come from decades or even centuries of using fission. These include include containment, health danger, waste disposal, etc. Pretty much, all of the basics of fusion tech except for the math issue and the magnetics results from dealing with fission for enough time you become familiar with it.

But in a multinational union, not every nation needs to research every technology.

The proposal already has our support.

But in a multinational union, not every nation needs to research every technology.

The proposal already has our support.

This isn't a multination union. This is more of a multination empire. U.N. decrees are pretty much law to all members. As this calls for nations to develop fusion technology, every nation must research it.

However, if the proposal author is just trying to get fusion tech among the UN, then he is just wasting our time. Fusion tech already exists in massive quantities, among both nations that own entire planets and nation stuck on Earth.

Develop of fission technology is the primary prerequisite for fusion technology.
...
Now, there is a reason why a nation cannot develop fusion first: All of the necessary processes learned in the development of fusion come from decades or even centuries of using fission. .... Pretty much, all of the basics of fusion tech except for the math issue and the magnetics results from dealing with fission for enough time you become familiar with it.

Fusion and fission have remarkably little to do with eachother in the realm of energy production. Scientists could feasibly demonstrate and publish how to create a viable fusion reactor. Scientists from other nations would then know how to do this. You seem to believe that no scientific communication occurs between nations, and this is entirely false.


As this calls for nations to develop fusion technology, every nation must research it.

However, if the proposal author is just trying to get fusion tech among the UN, then he is just wasting our time. Fusion tech already exists in massive quantities, among both nations that own entire planets and nation stuck on Earth.

This resolution only applies to those not living in fusion fantasy land. However, apparently, some U.N. member nations are currently committing gross criminal negligence against the environment of Earth by not divulging the science behind viable fusion energy production to scienists of the world.

Again, funding for this research is at-will and it imposes no financial burden on any unwilling nation.

Thank you for the continued and growing support.

Fusion and fission have remarkably little to do with eachother in the realm of energy production. Scientists could feasibly demonstrate and publish how to create a viable fusion reactor. Scientists from other nations would then know how to do this. You seem to believe that no scientific communication occurs between nations, and this is entirely false.

Which is where you make your error. A nation developing fusion tech means said nation works on its own. The moment you include the sharing of information, it's no longer just one nation developping the tech. I was going along the vein of the arguements presented, which I note completely ignores the fact that you call for a group made up of several scientists from multiple nations. Thus, my second paragraph, which was intended to direct the conversation towards the group you actually call for.

Oh, and I should note how completely wrong you are. Fission and fusion both use the same basic physics to them, only fission itself is easier to achieve and most frequently found on habitable planets. You don't need a reactor to observe fission up close, only one of the unstable uranium isotopes (as opposed to the theoretical stable isotopes). I should also note that fusion bombs themselves actually utilize fission to innitiate the fusion process, which is the beginning of the technological advancements into developping fusion reactors and what helps lead to the understanding of fusion technology and the forces needed to produce early fusion reactors. When it comes to energy production, they both utilize the same principle of physics, only they are on opposite ends of the spectrum. A similar analogy is to compare fission and fusion to matter and antimatter, and how early observations of antimatter actually resulted from reactions involving matter. Nature is the balance of opposites, and all opposites use the same rules in ways that result in their opposition.

This resolution only applies to those not living in fusion fantasy land.

No, this resolution applies to all UN members. That is in the FAQ. As some of us already possess fusion tech, this resolution is not necessary. If you want it so badly, try talking to those of us who do have it. I think a few nations are selling fusion reactors.

However, apparently, some U.N. member nations are currently committing gross criminal negligence against the environment of Earth by not divulging the science behind viable fusion energy production to scienists of the world.

We don't simply divulge such information due to the prevalence of it. If you can't buy or steal from us, try someone else. The technology is far too prevalent to be a problem achieving.

Again, funding for this research is at-will and it imposes no financial burden on any unwilling nation.

Actually, it does impose a financial burden. There are nations that have developed the tech and make a killing selling it to certain UN nations. Under this, you undermine that part of the global economy and force them into other areas, such as selling chemical weapons. The only nations not affected are those such as my own, which utilize closed economies.

I agree

Oh, and I should note how completely wrong you are. Fission and fusion both use the same basic physics to them, only fission itself is easier to achieve and most frequently found on habitable planets. You don't need a reactor to observe fission up close, only one of the unstable uranium isotopes (as opposed to the theoretical stable isotopes). I should also note that fusion bombs themselves actually utilize fission to innitiate the fusion process, which is the beginning of the technological advancements into developping fusion reactors and what helps lead to the understanding of fusion technology and the forces needed to produce early fusion reactors. When it comes to energy production, they both utilize the same principle of physics, only they are on opposite ends of the spectrum. A similar analogy is to compare fission and fusion to matter and antimatter, and how early observations of antimatter actually resulted from reactions involving matter. Nature is the balance of opposites, and all opposites use the same rules in ways that result in their opposition.


Don't lecture me on physics. I know physics. How the scientifically ignorant, like you, always seem to find a way to sway an innocent public infuriates me enough to want to run to the nearest living thing and kill it.

But instead, I educate.

Bombs are not reactors. Fusion reactors are independent of fission. Fusion and fission are not antiparticle pairs. There is no fusion-fission "spectrum." Nature is not the balance of opposites.

I sincerely hope you're only in 6th grade in real life.
I pray other U.N. delegates have the clarity to think for themselves and pay attention to the important scientific value of this proposal.

Scientists work together to help the world. Help the scientists. Help the world.

*heads for the bomb shelter*

Don't lecture me on physics. I know physics.

And yet, as you demonstrate with your claims about bombs and reactors, you are ignorant of the important basics. You have also shown that you have failed to grasp the temporal side of physics or the importance of asking the scientific question of how something relates to something else. My arguements are always tied to each other.

How the scientifically ignorant, like you, always seem to find a way to sway an innocent public infuriates me enough to want to run to the nearest living thing and kill it.

Maybe because people like me actually know what they are talking about and don't spout random misinformation as though it is fact and act with a superiority we have not earned.

But instead, I educate.

Education by others is often quoted by those truly learned as the path to ignorance. Think about it.

Bombs are not reactors.

False. A reactor, in this case, is simply something that utilizes materials to produce a reaction, of which the energy released by the reaction can be directed to some purpose. Even the human body is a reactor, though it is a chemical reactor. Bombs are a specific type of reactor, one that utilizes the reaction to induce an explosion and uses the force of the explosion to cause destruction. In some cases, such as nuclear bombs, the explosive force also includes the energy that results from the type of reaction. Note that matter also counts as energy, due to the conservation laws.

Now, provide a credible source for this misinformation you have stated. And, no, Wikipedia and Howstuffworks.com are not credible sources, regardless of accuracy.

Fusion reactors are independent of fission.

False. The bomb type of fusion reactors typically use fission reactions to induce the fusion. The power plant type typically use safety protocols developed as a result of experience with fission reactors, which also includes certain parts of the design of the reactors. In both cases, fission reactors are a require step for fusion reactors.

Fusion and fission are not antiparticle pairs.

Which is not what I said, making this "point" non sequitor. My wording is not too advanced for anyone who has completed the highschool level of education to fail to understand unless they failed English. If you wish, I can translate my posts in one of the lower, more primitive internet languages to pop up to prevent misunderstanding on your part. If you are educated in English, then failing to understand what I have said is your fault, not mine, and is inexcuseable.

There is no fusion-fission "spectrum."

The "spectrum" I mentioned is not a true spectrum, but a way of simplifying the family of nuclear reactions into a form most people can understand and still get across the point, skipping the necessity of explaining the basics of nuclear physics in a case where the person involved should at least take a few moments to make it a point to familiarize themselves with. Familiarity with both the science and the language utilized to explain would yield the results of knowing exactly what the explanation really meant and the complexities involved while at the same time maintaining the purpose of keeping simplicity of language. Being as my writing is not that far above what should be minimum requirements for understanding, I must assume that the science portion is what is lacking on your end.

Fission is the "breaking down" of atoms, particularly in the nucleus (thus the word "nuclear"), that generates radiation and energy. Fusion is the "melding" of atoms, particularly in the nucleus, that generates radiation and energy. Antimatter-matter reactions are the complete "obliteration" of particles that results in radiation and energy. Antimatter-matter reactions are only in the nuclear family due to the fact it's the one that deals with radiation, in spite of the fact that antimatter-matter reactions utilize a method that is not in any of the other nuclear reactions, which means they are likely to become a unique type sometime in the future.

Nature is not the balance of opposites.

And yet, no science exists to back this. You have particles and energy, the opposites of the waveform family; fission and fusion, the opposites of the nuclear family; matter and antimatter, the only confirmed pair of opposites in the particle family (gravitons and antigravitons are theoretical); life and death, the opposites of the existance category; and many others. Add in the theories of antimatter galaxies, matter and antimatter being created in equal amounts at the beginning of the universe, and several others and it becomes amazing how many opposites are found within science. Science itself is often even included as part of a pair of opposites.

Now, provide a credible source to back this illogical claim.

I sincerely hope you're only in 6th grade in real life.

If I'm in sixth grade while managing to know as much as I do about physics and science, then it's either a miracle or I'm in the best education system on Earth. Sadly, I live in the U.S., so the second is impossible.

Here's a problem: If I'm only in the sixth grade, you have to wonder which of the six lower grades you are in. After all, several of your claims in your last post are not even backed by the basics of science, let alone advanced theories. And at one point you totally missed what was actually said.

I pray other U.N. delegates have the clarity to think for themselves and pay attention to the important scientific value of this proposal.

What important scientific value? Fusion reactors provide nothing new that cannot be observed from what already exists, while at the same time contributing a horrible waste material that will last longer than most nations.

Scientists work together to help the world. Help the scientists. Help the world.

Emotional plee. Invalid.

I refuse to continue to mince irrelevant trivialities that you seem to bathe in. The stench is awful.

So, I'll focus on the most ludicrous and incorrect of your statements, to humor others that read this.

Fusion reactors provide nothing new that cannot be observed from what already exists, while at the same time contributing a horrible waste material that will last longer than most nations.

Experimental fusion reactors will reveal the steps and directions necessary for scientists and engineers to utilize the power of nuclear fusion.

Fusion does not yield long-lived radioactive byproducts.


For the other readers that would like to expand their minds in real life, I invite you to the International Thermonuclear Experimental Reactor website, http://www.iter.org/ , to learn more.

In the interest of my own time-demanding scientific endeavors (again, in real life), I will now disregard DemonLordEnigma's malignant misaligned comments.

I refuse to continue to mince irrelevant trivialities that you seem to bathe in. The stench is awful.

Ironic, as you are the source of the trivialities being responded to in that post. If you don't like your own smell, maybe that's a sign of something.

So, I'll focus on the most ludicrous and incorrect of your statements, to humor others that read this.

I notice you can only bother to come up with one quote. Interesting that it is only a minor point.

Experimental fusion reactors will reveal the steps and directions necessary for scientists and engineers to utilize the power of nuclear fusion.

Not really. You can get the same information from observing natural fusion reactors and how they work.

Fusion does not yield long-lived radioactive byproducts.

That's it? The best you can come up with is a quibble about fusion that isn't even backed up by the experience of realworld nations in the area of fusion remnants? Boy, I bet people would love to learn that their thermonuclear bombs don't yield the long-lived radiation scientists have been saying they do all of these years.

For the other readers that would like to expand their minds in real life, I invite you to the International Thermonuclear Experimental Reactor website, http://www.iter.org/ , to learn more.

It's ironic that you spoke earlier of a "fusion fantasy land" and then link to a real-world attempt at a fusion reactor.

In the interest of my own time-demanding scientific endeavors (again, in real life), I will now disregard DemonLordEnigma's malignant misaligned comments.

In other words, you can't win the arguement, so you pretend once again to be a scientist. Bud, it won't fly.

I want you to prove you are a scientist. And I mean, beyond the shadow of a doubt. Otherwise, the only conclusion is that you are pretending to be such in order to cover up your own lack of an ability to disprove. I've seen you do it twice on here, and now I want you to either prove it or admit that you are a fraud.

Explain to me, in detail, why I should waste my time explaining to you who I am?

Again, for others interested, I work on a device called the Madison Symmetric Torus in Madison, Wisconsin (the class of device is known as a Reversed-Field Pinch, one of four in the world). The basic plasma physics we develop is used for the advancement of plasma confinement and heating, particularly in the area of magnetohydrodynamic instabilities.

The reason is simple: You have, twice, used who you are as an excuse in this topic. Since you have made it an issue, you must prove it in order to prove that your excuse is not the dodge of someone who cannot prove their arguement.

As for the statement: That isn't proof. Give me ten minutes with a search engine and a couple of phone calls and I could have made that claim. All it proves is that you can look things up.

That's along the same lines of logic as "I need to have a radio before I can have cable telelvision." Development of fission technology is not a prerequisite to viable fusio technology.

The Protectorate of Thermonuclear War, the scientific community, and I thank all delegates who have supported this initiative's chance to be reviewed by the U.N. membership body.

Um, but to develope cable television you do need to develope "radio". It is in fact a pre-requisit....

...some U.N. member nations are currently committing gross criminal negligence against the environment of Earth by not divulging the science behind viable fusion energy production to scienists of the world.

Um, we don't divulge information regardant to Fusion, because we have a policy not to supply technologies which may interfere with the natural course of development of primitive cultures and societies; not due to negligence. It is far more criminally negligent to hand out technologies, than it is to protect more primitive societies.

Um, but to develope cable television you do need to develope "radio". It is in fact a pre-requisit....

I don't think he needs to know the very obvious connection between television pictures and radio waves.

I'm third year Physics student, and I think that everything that thermonuclear has proposed for your stupid fantasy government is more than enough to satisfy you. why have you fought over this issue like a bunch of dumbasses???

You obviously haven't read much on this forum. Most issues are fought hard over. It's for a combination of enjoyment and for getting rid of proposals that are not worth it.

As for what he proposed: It uses the Another Useless Committee phenomenon and is dealing with a subject that is very touchy when it comes to RP and has resulted in massive flamewars in the past. The idea of fusion power plants is only accepted for PMT and above technology levels, and for PMT it requires justification in many cases. Being as this issue touches directly on an RP issue that has been fought about in the past, it's worth fighting over on here. Besides, this was nothing. This was the merest taste of what most resolutions go through once they hit the floor. At least on here we didn't have four pages of one-shot posts and even more pages of newbs and n00bs posting random worthless comments. If you think this is bad, try reading the one on dolphins.

I plan to get my graduate degreesomwhere in the field of fusion or in nuclear engineering. I have been to the oak ridge national lab in oak ridge TN. I have professos that are actively working in many fields of nuclear physics... and the one thing I have learned from this post is that you are all a bunch of children fighting for the right to be the top dog.

Don't make me laugh. You are not qualified, by your own words, to make that statement. Physics and psychology are entirely different fields and barely even coincide in the most coincidental ways. Stick to what you know.

As for your identity: Stop using it as an excuse to back your arguements. You can't prove it, no matter how hard you try. All that can happen is that you provide a method for discrediting your arguements. After all, this is the internet. Anyone can claim to be anyone.

you are brats!

See above about the psychology, love.

you make me want to leave this damn game and never come back.

Over something as simple as this? Don't let it get to you. Some people in world are just assholes, and letting that part of their nature drive you away isn't the way to handle the situation. And, yes, I openly admit to being a card-carrying asshole.

who cares who thermonuclear is?

Thermonuclear does. Cares enough to use it as an excuse twice in this thread. That is why the challenge of proof is given.

ande for the record, I'm not a prfessional in physics yet, but what i do know is enough to prove that thermonuclear knows a lot more about physics than the rest of you.

Dearie, while that claim is interesting, it is just a claim. In the art of judging, they have my explanations versus your claims. My explanations can be looked up, verified, checked against logic, and are easily accepted because they even ring of science. I even included the temporal side of existance in my arguement. Plus, I make it a point to simplify my explanations so that they can be understood, which causes innacuracies but at the same time allows for understanding of the essentials. The innacuracies result from a problem of language.

You can look a lot of what I have said up. Some of it bothers to go ahead and do what many science books do not, which is state the obvious in a simple form.

If you wish, you can try to provide sources for what I took issue with. But I doubt you should waste time by doing that.

maybe he is ligit or maybe he looked it up.

it does matter.

Legit? Doubt it. The position is too important for legitimacy to exist. If I'm right, he wouldn't be the first and he certainly won't be the last claiming it that I have exposed. Even if he is legit, he has the problem of being unable to prove it and his position being too high for it to be believeable, meaning his claims are pretty much automatically disproven the moment he makes them no matter the truth of them.

play your stupid nationstates game and get over it.

I am playing the game. Not all parts of it are lollipops and rainbows.

OOC: And for the record, I happen to be a professional, in the realm of Electronics Engineering (so my remark regarding the inter-relation between radio and cable television, was not merely conjecture, but is an established fact.

Cable Television uses radio frequencies between ~55.25 MHz to ~889.75MHz... Audio is carried on a FM channel, video on a seperate channel (and encoded to differentiated standards, based on country [The United States and JApan (and most of North America), for example, uses NTSC(National Television Standards Commitee), the UK PAL (Phase Altering Line), and France PAL as well (Resolution on PAL is higher than NTSC (under normal standard PAL-N. Brazil and other nations use PAL-M, which is identical to NTSC in resolution)]. There are gaps between the standard analog channel frequencies (for example[NTSC] Channel 5 video is ~77.25MHz audio ~81.75MHz; channel 6 video is ~83.25MHz audio ~87.75MHz), these gaps are used by digital providers to provide extra channels along the spectrum (Digital Cable); Cable Modems use a digital signal around ~350MHz (located in the realm of the large frequency gap between channels 13 and 14 [211.25MHz/215.75Mhz and 471.25MHz/475.75MHz respectively]). The "radio" carrier is tranmitted over a cable, as opposed to air-waves. But the technology is the same [one wonders how one could build a Cable Television system, without building radio transmitters to send the signal over the cable to begin with].

Fusion reactors are the same. Much fundamental knowledge derived from fission is needed to reliably understand and operate fusion reactors (Fusion designs learning curve is much higher, and reliant on much more advanced technologies involving magnetic containment and shielding) [Fusion reactions, while producing no radioactive by-products, produce massive ammounts of Neutron radiation while in operation [even more so than normative fission reactors]... And thus require more knowledge of containment (derived from understaning the operation of fission power plants)....

All in all, however, each is nothing more than a massive tea-kettle... used to boil water. ("The Kettle is lit" is the slang for the reactor being "Self-Sustaining", when it has passed "Critical" (which merely means the reaction has started); and the reactor is producing enough power to sustain its own operations independent of other sources [the point IRL where Fusion has yet to reach as an operational technology, for any reliable period].).

However, if the proposal author is just trying to get fusion tech among the UN, then he is just wasting our time. Fusion tech already exists in massive quantities, among both nations that own entire planets and nation stuck on Earth."LIES! HERETIC! Everybody knows that it is coal power, not this magical 'fusion' that is the most prevalent and efficient form of energy production as we know it! YOU!-" The observer points his finger at the DLE delegate. "Are a filthy liar and a threat to the goals of the UN with your constant, negative attitudes towards the advancement of mankind! MAY GOD PUNISH YOU FOR THIS!

"Now, quit the rambling and let this honoured body proceed with an actual discussion regarding this project. I will admit that it lies in the far future, given that the theories this 'fusion' is based on are rather new, only a few years old, but still... We should and we will learn!"

"LIES! HERETIC! Everybody knows that it is coal power, not this magical 'fusion' that is the most prevalent and efficient form of energy production as we know it!

By we, I'd assume you mean the people of Smoking Pits and her neighbors.

I happen to know many nations, which reside off of this stinking rock of a planet (Terra/Earth/what ever you want to call it) who use fusion, as well as many other exotic schemes for power production. MAM and ZPM being the most prevalent.


YOU!-" The observer points his finger at the DLE delegate. "Are a filthy liar and a threat to the goals of the UN with your constant, negative attitudes towards the advancement of mankind! MAY GOD PUNISH YOU FOR THIS!

You're more than welcomed to advance (on your own).


"Now, quit the rambling and let this honoured body proceed with an actual discussion regarding this project. I will admit that it lies in the far future, given that the theories this 'fusion' is based on are rather new, only a few years old, but still... We should and we will learn!"

Our discussion is that it would not be advisable to supply nations (through international action) with technologies beyond their present capability (if you wish to do it independently; I will not stop you). However, it matters of technology, the Constitutional Republic maintains a strict sense of non-interference with other cultures.

"LIES! HERETIC! Everybody knows that it is coal power, not this magical 'fusion' that is the most prevalent and efficient form of energy production as we know it!"

And at what point did I claim fusion to be the most prevalent? Just because it is prevalent doesn't mean it is the most prevalent.

"YOU!-" The observer points his finger at the DLE delegate. "Are a filthy liar and a threat to the goals of the UN with your constant, negative attitudes towards the advancement of mankind! MAY GOD PUNISH YOU FOR THIS!"

You have just demonstrated why our ancestors abandoned the surface world and why religion was banned in our state for the first two centuries. Even now, being religious is likely to get you sent to a Necromancer specializing in psychology rather than getting good responses. (OOC: The Necromancers Guild is, in DLE, in charge of health of all types. They take care of mental and physical health, as well as disposal of the dead. In effect, they are the hospitals, psychologists and psychiatrists, waste disposal units, genetic engineers, biological weapons engineers, mortuaries, and toxin cleanup crews all rolled into one.)

As a nation, we are trying our best to make sure the UN doesn't suffer from the stupidity that resulted in the self-destruction of our ancestors. Having certain goals is nice, but if they are the path to suicide, then they should not be achieved.

"Now, quit the rambling and let this honoured body proceed with an actual discussion regarding this project. I will admit that it lies in the far future, given that the theories this 'fusion' is based on are rather new, only a few years old, but still..."

Fusion technology is not as far in the future as you think. Many of your fellow Earth-bound nations use it and even power sources stranger, such as Naquadria reactors and Zero Point Energy, while at the same time quite a few of us have had it for centuries. If you want the plans, there are nations unscrupulous enough to sell them to you.

"We should and we will learn!"

There are many things you should and should not do. Developing fusion is not among them. Fusion technology is a luxury, and if mishandled it can result in devastation that you will never recover from. With the vast number of nations having problems keeping simple fission contained and operating as it should, fusion is simply beyond their capacity to handle. Many parts of the UN simply are not ready for this yet.

I happen to know many nations, which reside off of this stinking rock of a planet (Terra/Earth/what ever you want to call it) who use fusion, as well as many other exotic schemes for power production. MAM and ZPM being the most prevalent."Eh? LIES! Reading too much H.G. Wells, are we? How the HELL do you intend to reach escape velocity with a [/i]ZEPPELIN?[/i] As great, as fantastic this final step into the air is, we CANNOT reach space. It will NEVER be reached. Now, I suggest that you quit your opium consumption, it seems to have rather negative affects on the functionality of your brain."

You're more than welcomed to advance (on your own).This I cannot help but to answer ooc Keeping in mind Tekania's non-interference policy). You are an UN member. You are interacting with less advanced civilisations on a DAILY BASIS. So, either you start actually following your non-interference policy by way of leaving the UN and stopping to post in threads where less advanced nations are posting (I.e. this one), or you QUIT THIS BULLSHIT ABOUT NON-INTERFERENCE. Because, ya'know... You're lying. As long as you're an UN member and posting in threads that involve nations played on a less advanced level than your own, you're simply breaking your own rules and, well, lying.

Our discussion is that it would not be advisable to supply nations (through international action) with technologies beyond their present capability (if you wish to do it independently; I will not stop you). However, it matters of technology, the Constitutional Republic maintains a strict sense of non-interference with other cultures.And again, ooc. This is not about supplying technology, this is about developing it. Thus, proliferation is not an issue.

And at what point did I claim fusion to be the most prevalent? Just because it is prevalent doesn't mean it is the most prevalent.
His ability to actually understand what others say is clearly lacking. Didn't know they use Down-Syndrome victims as UN representatives...

"You clearly didn't understand my point. But I shall forgive you, given that you seem to be rather confused... Burning COAL is the most prevalent form of energy production known to mankind, and this magic you're mentioning... Well, I can't help but to laugh at it. I don't know... But I suggest running the UN in a realistic way, not-" He hesitated, stroking his (Gigantic) moustache. "Not based on the science fiction you're reading, the science fiction that is rather clearly poisoning your mind!

"Your nation DISGUSTS me. Atheist, victim to the bolshevik hordes trying to destroy our civilisation, suffering megalomania, reveling in dreams and fantasies rather than building truly worthwhile wonders, like our dreadnoughts.

"I pity you."

Fusion technology is not as far in the future as you think. Many of your fellow Earth-bound nations use it and even power sources stranger, such as Naquadria reactors and Zero Point Energy, while at the same time quite a few of us have had it for centuries. If you want the plans, there are nations unscrupulous enough to sell them to you.The observer uttered a short, snorting laugh. "Again, this Science Fiction you come up with, when we all know that we have advanced further than every before, with horseless chariots using our streets, our vast railway networks and steampowered ships crossing the world in record time! We even have wireless telegraphy! You, Sir, are a liar, a bolshevik trying to poison the mind ofour brave workers with your fantasies and lies! I have to correct myself. I don't pity you. I despise you!"

There are many things you should and should not do. Developing fusion is not among them. Fusion technology is a luxury, and if mishandled it can result in devastation that you will never recover from. With the vast number of nations having problems keeping simple fission contained and operating as it should, fusion is simply beyond their capacity to handle. Many parts of the UN simply are not ready for this yet."Bah! Everyone knows that we, that mankind has been made in gods own image! We are DESTINED to find, to learn everything there is to be learned. Your simple, bolshevik lies have no other goal but to stop us from reaching for the very pinnacke of wisdom. YOU WILL FAIL!"

And I would oocly add that you're a retard. Unlike fission reactors, fusion reactors cannot suffer a random meltdown, given that pulsed fusion burns only a small amout of $Source_material (Deuterium, Helium, lithium, whatever) per second, with the rest not even present (And thus being unable to react, even if something goes wrong). They release only minimal amounts of radiation and (Once you get them to work efficiently) are infinitely safer than fission reactors. Not that I'm particularly surprised by your distinct lack of rather basic knowledge, given some of your previous highlights of utter hilarity, but still... Oh, and I require a link to the 'vast number of nations' suffering problems with fission power plants. Specifically, threads that involve Tschernobyl-like meltdowns. Otherwise you're quite simply, well, lying.

Smoking Pits: Okay, you get bonus points for coming up with a very amusing IC persona. But please, keep your insults IC, never OOC. That's called flaming.

I would also suggest not ICly insulting Tekania or DLE again - they are, after all, among the more militaristic of the UN members. DLE has been known to 'glass' entire nations for merely submitting dodgy proposals, I'm not sure what she'll do having been insulted directly.

I would also suggest not ICly insulting Tekania or DLE again - they are, after all, among the more militaristic of the UN members. DLE has been known to 'glass' entire nations for merely submitting dodgy proposals, I'm not sure what she'll do having been insulted directly.And I should be worried about this kind of fantastically bad RP... Why?

"Eh? LIES! Reading too much H.G. Wells, are we? How the HELL do you intend to reach escape velocity with a [/i]ZEPPELIN?[/i] As great, as fantastic this final step into the air is, we CANNOT reach space. It will NEVER be reached. Now, I suggest that you quit your opium consumption, it seems to have rather negative affects on the functionality of your brain."

My dear fellow member, not all members of this august body are on earth. This Republic is spread accross 6 planets in 5 star systems. And we don't use Zepplins. Our largest military grade space-worthy craft is the Kali class Battleships; just over 3 kilometers long, more than a kilometer wide, and massing a couple billion metric tons. There are plenty of nations is space.


This I cannot help but to answer ooc Keeping in mind Tekania's non-interference policy). You are an UN member. You are interacting with less advanced civilisations on a DAILY BASIS. So, either you start actually following your non-interference policy by way of leaving the UN and stopping to post in threads where less advanced nations are posting (I.e. this one), or you QUIT THIS BULLSHIT ABOUT NON-INTERFERENCE. Because, ya'know... You're lying. As long as you're an UN member and posting in threads that involve nations played on a less advanced level than your own, you're simply breaking your own rules and, well, lying.

Non-interference with technological advancement. We do not supply weapons, whether rail guns, plasma cannons, particle cannons, or anything else which technology can be used for weapons, or used to make weapons; pattern replicators, fusion reactors, MARC's, ZPM's, etc.


And again, ooc. This is not about supplying technology, this is about developing it. Thus, proliferation is not an issue.

You're more than free to develop technology. Just don't expect much assistance from advanced space-farers in this body.

Smoking Pits: Okay, you get bonus points for coming up with a very amusing IC persona. But please, keep your insults IC, never OOC. That's called flaming.

I would also suggest not ICly insulting Tekania or DLE again - they are, after all, among the more militaristic of the UN members. DLE has been known to 'glass' entire nations for merely submitting dodgy proposals, I'm not sure what she'll do having been insulted directly.

Militaristic? Never been called that before. I do have a rather extensive military (however, one must remember the Stellar Forces primary role is exploration). Though I do recall using threat of military force under the Humantarian Intervention resolution (by protocol); but the problem was solved without need for any overt action, and the protocol was not carried to its fullest extent. The most involved war this Republic's forces were in, was the Thompsonian Civil War within our own borders (several cycles ago); against a rising Theocratic Regime on a member world of the Republic.

Militaristic? Never been called that before. I do have a rather extensive military (however, one must remember the Stellar Forces primary role is exploration). Though I do recall using threat of military force under the Humantarian Intervention resolution (by protocol); but the problem was solved without need for any overt action, and the protocol was not carried to its fullest extent. The most involved war this Republic's forces were in, was the Thompsonian Civil War within our own borders (several cycles ago); against a rising Theocratic Regime on a member world of the Republic.
Well, by that I mean you're more militaristic than say, Enn or Ecopoeia.

Which is a pretty large number of nations, come to think of it.

My dear fellow member, not all members of this august body are on earth. This Republic is spread accross 6 planets in 5 star systems. And we don't use Zepplins. Our largest military grade space-worthy craft is the Kali class Battleships; just over 3 kilometers long, more than a kilometer wide, and massing a couple billion metric tons. There are plenty of nations is space."Still suffering from the Opium, huh? It is basic knowledge in the entire world that space travel is impossible! Your fantasies cannot deceive me, for I know the truth!"

Non-interference with technological advancement. We do not supply weapons, whether rail guns, plasma cannons, particle cannons, or anything else which technology can be used for weapons, or used to make weapons; pattern replicators, fusion reactors, MARC's, ZPM's, etc.
Odd. Last I checked, in this (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=410803) thread, Tekania's policy was to prevent any kind of contact (Suffering rather significant delusions of grandeur, given spacedy-sol's capacity to stomp Tekania in a week, if it is particularly slow, but hey...).

His ability to actually understand what others say is clearly lacking. Didn't know they use Down-Syndrome victims as UN representatives...

~The delegate looked at him carefully, eyes narrowed. Though the nation of DLE had a policy of nonviolence unless it was warranted, they did have cases of "temporary insanity" pop up among the civilians that allowed for violence. The delegate was sure a piece of "temporary insanity" would excuse his ordering the ordering the frigate in orbit to open fire on a nation. If all else failed, he'd blame it on the Maintainers Disciple, as that position was known for attracting incompetence anyway. It wouldn't undo any deaths and DLE law would prevent the nation from bothering to pay out for something it can't confirm with its own eyes, so all would work out just nicely.~

"You clearly didn't understand my point. But I shall forgive you, given that you seem to be rather confused... Burning COAL is the most prevalent form of energy production known to mankind, and this magic you're mentioning... Well, I can't help but to laugh at it. I don't know... But I suggest running the UN in a realistic way, not-" He hesitated, stroking his (Gigantic) moustache. "Not based on the science fiction you're reading, the science fiction that is rather clearly poisoning your mind!"

OOC: It's strange, but I'm getting a sense of deja vu with this. Damned dreams.

IC:

And you clearly did not understand mine. Was the English too complicated, or was it a case of not bothering to pay attention? Perhaps you would prefer it if I spoke in Spanish or D'ni, the other two languages of my homeland. No, I had better not use the last. If you're having trouble with a primitive language such as English, I would hate to see the problems you would have with D'ni.

If you were to really want to run the UN in a realistic way, you would realize that your pitiful nation is not the rule. There are many of us who are technologically superior to you, whether having simply advanced a bit further in a few fields or having centuries of advancements backing us. Hell, I bet your nation has no understanding of waveform physics yet, let alone the complexities involved in exploiting it for interplanetary travel or the fact it allows the building of advanced graviton faster-than-light jump drives. Hell, I bet you can't even say exactly when multiple human nations banded together to build a reactor that eventually was able to create antimatter atoms or when they began working on an active fusion reactor.

Don't get snarky with those who are more advanced than you just because you can't accept facts. Our ancestors paid dearly for it.

Now, as for your coal comment: Where did you see me ever state that as false? Or even state something that would make it false? Coal is the most prevalent, but oil, natural gas, natural energy, geothermic, fission, fusion, antimatter-matter reactions, naquadria reactors, and zero point energy are also prevalent.

"Your nation DISGUSTS me. Atheist, victim to the bolshevik hordes trying to destroy our civilisation, suffering megalomania, reveling in dreams and fantasies rather than building truly worthwhile wonders, like our dreadnoughts."

~Lays a picture of one of Smoking Pit's dreadnaughts on the table. The picture was clearly taken from orbit.~

You mean one of these? We have our own type of dreadnaught, and it certainly is much more powerful than that measely attempt of yours. And I suppose you think a three kilometer fortress floating in orbit is completely impossible, right? Perhaps you would change your mind if you saw one of our many worlds. Assuming, of course, I could get permission to contaminate the "society" of a less advanced nation.

You suffer from the same disease that destroyed our ancestors. You believe wonders can only be built. You will never come to understand what it is like to see the twin sunrises of a binary system, the feeling of the ground rumbling when a planet's twelve moons come into alignment, or the fantastic creations of evolution gone wild on planets where even the laws of physics differ from Earth. Hell, you probably don't even know the wonders your own planet holds yet.

"I pity you."

Do not pity me. I have seen far more of what there is to existance than you can imagine.

The observer uttered a short, snorting laugh. "Again, this Science Fiction you come up with, when we all know that we have advanced further than every before, with horseless chariots using our streets, our vast railway networks and steampowered ships crossing the world in record time! We even have wireless telegraphy! You, Sir, are a liar, a bolshevik trying to poison the mind ofour brave workers with your fantasies and lies! I have to correct myself. I don't pity you. I despise you!"

How many satellites do you have in orbit? How many space missions have you attempted? Tell me, have you figured out the radiation nature of gravity yet? Have you observed the energy spikes of pulsars? Do you have pictures of a sun being sucked into a black hole? Hell, have you even seen an ion storm yet?

"Bah! Everyone knows that we, that mankind has been made in gods own image! We are DESTINED to find, to learn everything there is to be learned. Your simple, bolshevik lies have no other goal but to stop us from reaching for the very pinnacke of wisdom. YOU WILL FAIL!"

Pinnacle of wisdom? Not likely. Your advancements are standard, your knowledge pretty much common, and your nation itself is unremarkable. We've seen the same exact items in hundreds of other nations as well, as well as meeting nations around your technology level that are more advanced than you. If you wish to be the best, you have some catching up to do.

And I would oocly add that you're a retard.

OOC: I'll give you one more chance. Then I'm turning you into the mods. Fair warning.

Unlike fission reactors, fusion reactors cannot suffer a random meltdown, given that pulsed fusion burns only a small amout of $Source_material (Deuterium, Helium, lithium, whatever) per second, with the rest not even present (And thus being unable to react, even if something goes wrong). They release only minimal amounts of radiation and (Once you get them to work efficiently) are infinitely safer than fission reactors.

OOC: Actually, when properly maintained, not even fission reactors can suffer random meltdowns. The reason why nations are having trouble with fission reactors melting down and leaking amounts of radiation they are not supposed to is because those nations are not properly maintaining the reactors. Using proper care and wisdom, you shouldn't face a nuclear meltdown (without a major catastrophy to create it) for at least a thousand years. Most nuclear reactors, whether fission or fusion, shouldn't remain in service that long anyway.

Not that I'm particularly surprised by your distinct lack of rather basic knowledge, given some of your previous highlights of utter hilarity, but still... Oh, and I require a link to the 'vast number of nations' suffering problems with fission power plants. Specifically, threads that involve Tschernobyl-like meltdowns. Otherwise you're quite simply, well, lying.

OOC: Obviously, you've never dealt with me before or bothered to check my long posting history. I have a simple code of arguing. If one person asks for proof and the other person or other side (in cases when the proof requirement begins to be extended to multiple people) fails to provide it, the person who asked first is not required to give proof to the other side when they ask for it. Since I have already extended the evidence asking to multiple people, it's pretty much a case of that rule comming into affect in this case.

In other words, I already asked for proof and already extended it to more than one person on your side of the arguement. If you wish to have the right to ask me for proof, answer my own challenge earlier. If not, then you have no right to ask me to provide any. And, yes, I have been on the wrong side of my own rule before and I have obeyed it, as much as I hated it at the time. You may not like it, but I don't honestly care.

If you are wondering, those rules evolved from dealing with topics like this one. They've been added to since I have come to this site, as new arguements popped up that forced changes. Basically, you are the recipient of policies that evolved from dealing with trolls, simply because I use those policies to separate trolls from who is actually worth arguing with.

"Still suffering from the Opium, huh? It is basic knowledge in the entire world that space travel is impossible! Your fantasies cannot deceive me, for I know the truth!"

Basic knowledge is whose world, pray-tell? Certainly not earth. Since many state on earth have functional space-programs (including interoperation by the United Nations on a volunteer basis).

Certainly not amongst the Tekaniou planets. Since we've been in space for generations; plowing the stars like oceans... Should I even dare mention the Humans of Earth who have colonized the Moon? Mars? the Jovian satalites? (certainly not plowing interstellar space, but at least are interplanetary in capability).


Odd. Last I checked, in this (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=410803) thread, Tekania's policy was to prevent any kind of contact (Suffering rather significant delusions of grandeur, given spacedy-sol's capacity to stomp Tekania in a week, if it is particularly slow, but hey...).

OOC: No, if you read, I was against military action by a FT state against Earth. As long as no military action stood. the Republic merely supervised the activities. which shows your comprehension skills.

Isate has decided after some thought to support this proposal simply because of its drive for renewable energy and commitment to advancing scientific research. You may count on our vote.

He really doesn't get it. The observer chuckled a little, astonished by the DLE delegate's apparent lack of understanding.

Well, their problem, not his own.

"I fail to see why this honoured assembly even ALLOWS the obvious opium addicts that believe that they are in 'Outer Space' <Enter Dr. Evil Gesture here> to talk. WE KNOW the way the world runs, WE ARE the pinnackle of human development, this is the UNDENIABLE TRUTH. Why does this assembly allow fools like this one to talk, when they should stay in an asylum, content with themselves and their fantasies?"

~Lays a picture of one of Smoking Pit's dreadnaughts on the table. The picture was clearly taken from orbit.~

"A nice aquarell. Not particularly impressive, though. But your artists are vaguely talented. Not as good as ours, but... Well, as I said, talented."

He didn't even bother with replying to the rest of the DLE delegate's obviously opium-induced trip of megalomania. Not that he needed to, anyway. Several planets. It was laughable, the amount of decentralisation such a territory would mean for a comparatively small nation (Less than 2bn) like DLE would effectively destroy their industry. A claim, sure.

Unfortunately, it was rather obviously the result of drug abuse.

OOC: Actually, when properly maintained, not even fission reactors can suffer random meltdowns. The reason why nations are having trouble with fission reactors melting down and leaking amounts of radiation they are not supposed to is because those nations are not properly maintaining the reactors. Using proper care and wisdom, you shouldn't face a nuclear meltdown (without a major catastrophy to create it) for at least a thousand years. Most nuclear reactors, whether fission or fusion, shouldn't remain in service that long anyway.And this supports your point that fusion reactors are dangerous... How?

Oh, right, it doesn't. A rather poor attempt at distraction, that's all.

OOC: Obviously, you've never dealt with me before or bothered to check my long posting history. <Snip the insane rambling about selfmade rules supposed to distract from the fact that there is no evidence>You mean... You don't have such links. Wooo, another (Again, rather poor) attempt at distracting from the issue at hand, the issue being that you're just talking out of your ass without having anything even remotely resembling examples or evidence available.

And of course, there is no doubt that you will continue with the insane rambling OR simply ignore the point, rather than provide such evidence (Or alternatively, admit that you were wrong).

Well, given your posting history with its constant hilarity of 'Outrageous or hilarious claim/ Fanatical defence of said claim by way of defying reality/ claiming that it was but a joke or trick', I'm not particularly surprised.

Basic knowledge is whose world, pray-tell? Certainly not earth. Since many state on earth have functional space-programs (including interoperation by the United Nations on a volunteer basis).

Certainly not amongst the Tekaniou planets. Since we've been in space for generations; plowing the stars like oceans... Should I even dare mention the Humans of Earth who have colonized the Moon? Mars? the Jovian satalites? (certainly not plowing interstellar space, but at least are interplanetary in capability).
"Bah. Your lies cannot deceive us. What are you doing here, wasting the time of this assembly with your lies and megalomania, your 'Space_Empires' <Insert dr. Evil gesture here> and your delusions of grandeur? Go, write silly novels to poison our youth if you want to, but quit wasting the time of the UN!"

And I would oocly add that there are plenty of earth/ sol based nations with rather excessive FTL capacities. For example Iuthia, Treznor (Who manages to travel to different galactic superclusters within reasonable timeframes), Scolopendra (Instantaneous FTL over intragalactic distances), Sunset, New AreArBee, The Territory, Sketch and so on and so on (Only mentioned a few of those of which I know that they have different kinds of FTL, but a good amount of them proliferate).

And then there is a culture warship with excession-exceeding firepower (The ROU Chrome Steel Phallus) near the sun...

Of course, given that this is really obvious and given that your delegate (On earth) doesn't seem to know about it... And I recall your ships not noticing the excessive traffic and galaxy-like EM output of sol in the thread linked above... I suppose that Tekania's sensors are really, seriously crappy. Makes one wonder how the hell you're even capable of finding $Astrological object, given that you're effectively, oh... Blind.

I've put in a request in Moderation for a mod to at least have a look over this topic. I think it is getting close to a flamewar, which none of us want.

He really doesn't get it. The observer chuckled a little, astonished by the DLE delegate's apparent lack of understanding.

Well, their problem, not his own.

~The DLE delegate sat, watching the person before him, and wondered how far this game would go. After all, the pawn had been played beautifully up to this point. It would only take a little while longer to move the pawn into the correct place.~

"I fail to see why this honoured assembly even ALLOWS the obvious opium addicts that believe that they are in 'Outer Space' <Enter Dr. Evil Gesture here> to talk. WE KNOW the way the world runs, WE ARE the pinnackle of human development, this is the UNDENIABLE TRUTH. Why does this assembly allow fools like this one to talk, when they should stay in an asylum, content with themselves and their fantasies?"

Considering the assembly has allowed you to waste time here, I would say it is very tolerant of fools. You forget one thing with your fanciful words: Humans are not the only species present in the UN. Plus, you forget how old this planet is and how few of its mysteries lie uncovered. Even now, species previously thought only fantasy or entirely impossible are being discovered. Keep in mind when you speak of fantasy that the giant squid was once considered such, and yet today we know the animal to be real. And it is also foolish to assume that Earth is the only place on which an intelligent species can evolve, or even the only place that humanity has evolved. Considering our own discoveries in that area, humanity is but the major expression of a common form.

"A nice aquarell. Not particularly impressive, though. But your artists are vaguely talented. Not as good as ours, but... Well, as I said, talented."

Pictures tend to get blurred when you take them while on the move. Has a bit to do with relativity.

He didn't even bother with replying to the rest of the DLE delegate's obviously opium-induced trip of megalomania. Not that he needed to, anyway. Several planets. It was laughable, the amount of decentralisation such a territory would mean for a comparatively small nation (Less than 2bn) like DLE would effectively destroy their industry. A claim, sure.

Unfortunately, it was rather obviously the result of drug abuse.

~The delegate smiled, once again, watching the rather predictable patterns of the lesser being before him. The single-planet nations often had trouble understanding how it would be possible to run a nation consisting of multiple planets with a population of less than a billion, let along les than ten. They did not understand the idea of starter colonies, of setting a planet aside for the group you choose to live on it, or of devoting entire planets to a single industry in order to give it all of the room it should ever need. They did not understand because they never planned that far ahead.~

And this supports your point that fusion reactors are dangerous... How?

Oh, right, it doesn't. A rather poor attempt at distraction, that's all.

OOC: Really, common sense provides the answer. If nations have problems with fission reactors blowing up due to incompetence, do you really think they'll instantly gain competence for fusion reactors? You are forgetting the human stupidity factor.

You mean... You don't have such links. Wooo, another (Again, rather poor) attempt at distracting from the issue at hand, the issue being that you're just talking out of your ass without having anything even remotely resembling examples or evidence available.

And of course, there is no doubt that you will continue with the insane rambling OR simply ignore the point, rather than provide such evidence (Or alternatively, admit that you were wrong).

Well, given your posting history with its constant hilarity of 'Outrageous or hilarious claim/ Fanatical defence of said claim by way of defying reality/ claiming that it was but a joke or trick', I'm not particularly surprised.

Look, I have simple rules and I stick by them. I asked for examples that prove the opposite of what I have said several posts ago. No one has provided them. All you are doing is proving you are a common troll in that, rather than answer the challenge, you would rather issue a challenge and try to get me to answer it when we both know you have no intention of doing the same. You answer my challenge for evidence, I'll answer yours. If you can't, just admit that you are a troll and that you are here to waste our time. That way, it saves us all the time and effort of dealing with your piss-poor arguements that amount to not even dealing with the issue at hand (which is to say, pretty much everything you have posted except a minor and ultimately pointless exertation on fusion reactors that ignores the reality of the human condition).