NationStates Jolt Archive

We believe that citizens must have their beliefs protected by law to stop unscruplous companies from forcing them to work on a day sacred to them.
I am calling delegates of all faiths and non-faiths to support this.

Rights for a Holy Day

All workers in UN countries have the right to a day off weekly for religious reasons. Whilst companies are entitled to be open 7 days a week they must not force religious members of staff to work on their Holy Day (i.e Sunday) against their will. This bill will give religious people to right to refuse to work on this day without the fear of discrimination or losing their job.

However people must declare their faith and their desire to be entitled to this day off in their contract when they first take a job. For those who become religious whilst working for a company they will have to meet their employer and ask for an amendment to their contract. The employee has four weeks from that point before they can demand a day off for religious reasons. If the employer can prove that giving their employee this day off every week will seriously affect the company and makes the employee’s role in the company untenable, then the employer has the right to let the employee go.

To prevent non-religious people from using this bill as an excuse to bunk off, a proof of commitment to a faith is required. This could be a signed letter from a religious leader, a membership card or a letter from the employee to the employer explaining what they believe and why they believe it.

If an atheist or non-religious person gives a valid a reason for them to have a day off each week to be practice their disbelief/non-religion, then this will be treated equally to other cases.

Human Rights

Strength: Mild

You need to check up on your usage of Latin abbreviations.

(ie Sunday)

ie means that is, or that this is the only acceptable response. Changing it to eg (for example) would be better. Currently , this would be discriminatory against any religion which celebrates the Sabbath on a day other than Sunday - Judaism, Islam and Seventh Day Adventistism for a start.

Discriminatory against the non-religious. They have to give "a valid reason," while the religious have a "valid" reason automatically with this resolution.

We're sorry, but we cannot support this. We have perfectly good, secular "holidays" that everyone is privy to and we see no reason why the religious should be granted special rights.

This resolution is clearly discrimatory against the non-religious. Koroser voices it's firm disapproval.

This resolution is clearly discrimatory against the non-religious. Koroser voices it's firm disapproval. it is only discriminating in the sense that a womans right to choose (abortion) discriminates against men.

why can you people not see this?

Greetings.

This resolution encourages those not having a faith to invent one. It thus allows them one extra day off, subject to their creative ability. This discriminates against those who have no such ability or access to such ability. It also requires definition of certain key terms, such as 'religion'.

Discriminatory against the non-religious. They have to give "a valid reason," while the religious have a "valid" reason automatically with this resolution.
Wrong. Religious people have to give a valid reason too. They have to write a letter to their employer explaining why it is important to their beliefs to have a day off. Both atheists and religious people will have to explain this. So it is equal!! Stop being so paranoid!!

it is only discriminating in the sense that a womans right to choose (abortion) discriminates against men.

why can you people not see this?

Because it isn't the same thing. If everyone else gets a day off, but not atheists or others who don't worship and have no holy days to have off, that is clear discrimination against them. In simple terms, this is unfair. There is no way for an atheist to have a valid religious reason.

Combining this with the "40 hour Work Week" Resolution, one could feasibly end up with people only working 28 hours a week. This is unacceptable. If they want to work part time, they get part time pay.

Wrong. Religious people have to give a valid reason too. They have to write a letter to their employer explaining why it is important to their beliefs to have a day off. Both atheists and religious people will have to explain this. So it is equal!! Stop being so paranoid!!

You are making religion a "valid" reason. You are not making atheism that - you even try to discriminate against atheists using this preposterous violation of National Sovereignty by inventing a "religion" of their own. You are clearly trying to give religious people special rights and privileges that are to be inaccessible to other people, and that is a clear violation of the resolutions that deal with discrimination on the grounds of religion or lack thereof.

Because it isn't the same thing. If everyone else gets a day off, but not atheists or others who don't worship and have no holy days to have off, that is clear discrimination against them. In simple terms, this is unfair. There is no way for an atheist to have a valid religious reason.they might be a Marxist and therefore declare it Workers day off.

It is not my fault atheists do not adhere to Holy Days.

But it is your fault that this preposterous proposal perfidiously does, and therefore you are advocating discrimination against the non-religious.

Oh, and atheist != communist. Personally, as ambassador I have no day of the week which I would treat as holy or particularly reverent, and therefore would be unable to claim any benefit.

Personally, as ambassador I have no day of the week which I would treat as holy or particularly reverent, and therefore would be unable to claim any benefit.
Greetings.

We note that it does not say you have to specifiy a particular day. Of course, if the right to have a day of each week is granted but you do not take it, then it is your fault. What we would really like to know is whether it can be a random day, should one be a worshipper of some power of randomness, or an otherwise variable section of the week.

Although the spirit of this proposal is admirable, we in the Empire are faced with a rather unusual problem, in that our seven state religions have each adopted a seperate day of the first week in each month for their holy day, following the Convocation of Grune in 969CE, in order to allow our citizenry to take part in more than one of the faiths if they so chose. If we are then required to mandate that every faith has a holy day each week our economy will literally grind to a halt. Nobody will be working due to having this day or that day off to attend yet another boring afternoon sermon or ritual sacrifice. It's an nteresting idea, but I think you need to work on teh wording a lot more.

An admirable proposal, however. Most civilized countries should see this as irrelevant. Why? Do you have a 7 day work week? Darkumbrians would revolt against my tyranical rule if I attempted to take away their weekend. Religious freedoms in Darkumbria are secure, and there is a 5 day work week. Hence, we need force no one to adhere to a Holy day.

Greetings.

We note that it does not say you have to specifiy a particular day. Of course, if the right to have a day of each week is granted but you do not take it, then it is your fault. What we would really like to know is whether it can be a random day, should one be a worshipper of some power of randomness, or an otherwise variable section of the week.

You cannot take a day without a "valid" reason, and I have nothing that would count as such. However, as the term "valid" is entirely subjective, I suppose I could take a day so I could have -er, worship tea.

You cannot take a day without a "valid" reason, and I have nothing that would count as such. However, as the term "valid" is entirely subjective, I suppose I could take a day so I could have -er, worship tea.

Oh, but you can't! The resolution is clearly armed with exceptions that would make it impossible for you, as a non-religious person, to use a religion as an excuse, while it makes it perfectly ok for those who are religious to do so. Religious discrimination of the non-religious is what it is!

It's very much like how smokers get cigarette breaks, and non-smokers get nothing. Unfair! However, I like to even up the score by having NationStates breaks. (Unofficially of course!)

Well, the thing is there the difference is between having them smoke near you and giving them a break so they don't cover you in smoke.

IC:
This proposal is extremely dangerous!
Cobdenia's nuclear power stations have two shifts; the Monday-Thursday Shift, and the Friday-Sunday shift. Imagine if all our Friday-Sunday staff became religious; we would be forced to let them take Sunday off which could lead to a nuclear catrastrophe!

It's very much like how smokers get cigarette breaks, and non-smokers get nothing. Unfair!

Exactly. Just because you're not religious doesn't mean you should have to work an extra day while a religious person gets the day off. Fatus Maximus' Christian population (kept around solely for the amusement of the other 93%) observes mass everyday. Every day is a Sabbath Day to them. It's this devoutness that has put off the rest of Fatus Maximus to Christianity, along with the fact that ANY religion that includes gluttony in it's list of seven deadly sins is unlikely to gain any popularity here.

This proposal seems to serve as only th latest in a string of such from the Kingdom of Heaven. Religion, or rather Christianity, is not universal and therefore does not affect evryone. We are not Christians and do not appreciate attempts to force Christian ethical principles upon us. Religious ideals are all relative here and you should not attempt to promote this Christian model for us all to follow

Greetings.

We note with consternation the habit of referring to the Kingdom of Heaven as 'the Kingdom of Heaven'. The former is a monarchy named Heaven, the latter is the source of terrible fleets of Seraphim armed with spears of lightning and hordes of Cherubim armed with both fire and sword. We refrain from describing the Principalities (not 'principalities') and Powers (not 'powers') available to that dread army, not to mention Angels, Archangels, Thrones and Dominations.

Our stand has always been to refrain from provoking this latter 'Kingdom of Heaven' to wrath. It is all too likely that a half-daemonic heritage might prove less than ameliorative in any final accounting that might ensue.

Greetings.

We note with consternation the habit of referring to the Kingdom of Heaven as 'the Kingdom of Heaven'. The former is a monarchy named Heaven, the latter is the source of terrible fleets of Seraphim armed with spears of lightning and hordes of Cherubim armed with both fire and sword.
Just curious, how is a seraph meant to be armed with, well, anything? All a seraph is is a head with wings. They don't even have arms to carry anything!

Once again - hell no.

Posting the same thing multiple times on the forum in a lame attempt to erase all of the arguements against it isn't an intelligent strategy. It's spamming the forum.

I've been trying to ignore all these religion based proposals but as the saying goes....I give up :D.

I say a sound no to this one.

We con't consider this a UN matter. Heck we don't even consider it a state matter. Employees days off are between the employee and the employer. If someone wants a day off work for religious reasons, or any reasons for that matter, then they sort out a shift change, roster adjustment, holiday leave etc themselves. If they really don't want to work on certain days, and the job requires that, then they don't have to do that job.

Our government doesn't stick its nose into these type of employer/employee issues and we certainly don't want the UN doing so either :).

I personally think this is a sound concept that needs to be properly written.

Give me a little while and I'll whip up an alternative proposal along the same lines.

Here you go, it's only a 5 minute jobbie and I imagine has problems and typos, but it might help:

NOTING previous resolutions that protect freedom of worship.

MINDFUL of the obligations placed upon induviduals from their religon, and employment.

AWARE that employers are sometimes inflexible and do not attempt to cater for religous beliefs.

CONCIOUS that aethists have no such need.

MINDFUL of the possible impact on small businesses.

Declares the following:

DETERMINED that awareness of nationally and internationally recognised religous events should be promoted in Member states

ENCOURAGES employers and employees to engage in dialogue regarding participation in religous holidays.

DETERMINED that induviduals have the minimum fundamental right to unpaid leave to participate in religous holidays, or to use a portion of their standard paid leave if so desired.

ENCOURAGES employers to consider providing paid leave for religous holidays where possible.

ENCOURAGES employers to consider compensating aethists with similar or balanced measures.

AWARE that not all businesses can survive staff being unavailable at periods of time, urges employees to work with employers to ensure continued healthy business.

Here you go, it's only a 5 minute jobbie and I imagine has problems and typos, but it might help:

That's disgusting. The UN Building does have toilets you know. I realise you're not the only one to poo-poo this idea but at least the others did it metaphorically.

That's disgusting. The UN Building does have toilets you know. I realise you're not the only one to poo-poo this idea but at least the others did it metaphorically.

Actually I rather like the proposal, I was just writing an alternative that might be a bit easier for certain members to swallow.

Like I said, it was just an alternative effort which might prove useful.

I know, I was only joking, it was because you called it a "jobbie". Maybe it's a British thing (it means a poo)

I know, I was only joking, it was because you called it a "jobbie". Maybe it's a British thing (it means a poo)

ooc: It must be a Glasgow thing, as I'm British - from the midlands ;)

Why is this even up for debate??. Does not a nation have the ability to set aside what holidays if any for themselves? The UN is not here to micromanage any nation's day to day actions and rule. ( This goes the same for proposals about legal age that is decided localy it doesn't need international mandate)
If your nation is soo weak you need the UN to tell when people have have a day off the clearly you don't deserve the mandate to rule.

This effectively declares that religious beliefs are more important and worthy of respect than other types of idea/belief - a principle which we do not want enshrined in law. Whilst it says that other "valid reasons" should get a day off too, it leaves this undefined and therefore up to employers, many of which will simply refuse to accept any other reason as valid.

This effectively declares that religious beliefs are more important and worthy of respect than other types of idea/belief - a principle which we do not want enshrined in law. Whilst it says that other "valid reasons" should get a day off too, it leaves this undefined and therefore up to employers, many of which will simply refuse to accept any other reason as valid.

This effectively declares that religious beliefs are more important and worthy of respect than other types of idea/belief - a principle which we do not want enshrined in law. Whilst it says that other "valid reasons" should get a day off too, it leaves this undefined and therefore up to employers, many of which will simply refuse to accept any other reason as valid.

This effectively declares that religious beliefs are more important and worthy of respect than other types of idea/belief - a principle which we do not want enshrined in law. Whilst it says that other "valid reasons" should get a day off too, it leaves this undefined and therefore up to employers, many of which will simply refuse to accept any other reason as valid.

<nods thoughtfully> That's why I kept everything as flexible in my alternative proposal, whilst giving employees the opportunity to take unpaid leave if no agreement was reached.