NationStates Jolt Archive

Vote for Leagalise Marijuana on UN proposal list :sniper: :mp5: :sniper:

This belongs in UN, not here. Read the stickies. Smilies = bad.

Message from the office of the Presidency of the Holy Republic of Algeristan

To: Brotchen

The Holy Republic of Algeristan is VERY concerned about the possible implications that would result from the possible legalisation of cannabis.

This would ONLY result in the rise of crime, murder, lawlessness and criminal gangs/mafias.

On top of that, it would destroy the youth of many nations, as they seem to fall to the evil world of drugs more so than other people.

Cannabis causes mental problems and makes its users very lazy and they therefore become a drain on the nation as they avoid work and take up state money on treatments for their 'illness'.

In Algeristan, we EXCECUTE those who sell and profit from drugs and we also give long prison sentences, with torture sessions, to those who take drugs.

Algeristan hopes that other nations support us in our view of the dangers drugs cause to nations and we must unite to fight this evil, in as many ways as possible.

From the President of the Holy Republic of Algeristan

Sayeed al Bakr.

OOC: I'll let moderation know to move this....

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v488/frisbeeteria/moved_sm.jpg

And since Fris was kind enough to move it to the correct forum, I'll give it the response it deserves.
http://bak42.notworksafe.com/images/NationStates/UNCards/mossproposal.jpg
Next time post a copy of the proposal here so we can see it.

Whilst Hirota appreciates some of the sentiments made by both Brotchen and Algeristan, we must note that both appear to take extreme stances on the issue, both of which fail to deal with the issue in a responsible or effective manner.

Whilst we agree with the possible side effects caused by Cannabis, we most also point out its extreme medical benefits for those in intense pain caused by disability or illness. If taken in carefully prescribed amounts, the negatives are minimal, and the suffering of many is eased.

Hirota does not see the benefit of punishing users – instead we target illicit suppliers. There are strict licensing laws for the sale of cannabis, and those found selling illicitly, or not upholding the code of practice enshrined in law, are subject to heavy penalties, including the possibility of incarceration.

We must also point out to Algeristan their obligations under international UN law and point out resolutions “The Universal Bill of Rights” (Article 5 - All human beings must not be subjected to torture or to cruel or inhuman treatment or punishment.) and “END BARBARIC PUNISHMENTS” (The same goes for punishments for a crime. The punishments have to fit the crime and not include torture or cruel and unusual punishment). The Supremely Democratic States of Hirota wish to remind Algeristan that not only is there no room for refusal on these matters, but that Hirota would be willing to enforce those resolutions using whatever diplomatic, economic or military tools at our disposal.

Message from the office of the Presidency of the Holy Republic of Algeristan

To: Hirota

Algeristan has been taken aback by the Hirotan message.

Whilst we DISAGREE with your views that users must not be punished, that sovereign nations cannot exercise their own forms of justice and that cannabis can be sold in a 'legal' manner with government control on its market; Algeristan at least urges you to continue to act in proper diplomatic manner and not go off the rails with any rash military actions or hostile provocations.

Algeristan sees that cannabis can cause THREE problems to society:

1.) Problems related to crime and social disorder.

2.) Health problems and it's effects on the mind of the user.

3.) The financial cost related to treating drug abuse.

As you can see, crime is a BIG problem in our nation, with the law being shown disrespect by many people, its only right that Algeristan makes an example of those people who break the law and comes down hard on those who think the law does not apply to them.

Dealers are only half of the problem. Algeristan does not agree with the Hirotan view that only dealers should be punished. Supply and demand is the primary rule of the market and if you want to abolish the drugs market, the demand has to be targeted along with the supply.

You claim that our use of torture is 'inhumane', nonsense!

If an Algeristani citizen does not want to be punished and does not want to be tortured, then that citizen must NOT break the law. This is a very SIMPLE and EASY formula!

Algeristan has NEVER been convinced by the liberal mantra that criminals are equal to law abiding citizens and that they must be treated with certain rights. Criminals have NO rights!

Besides, even if Algeristan wanted to change our legal system, WE CAN'T!

Algeristan is an Islamic nation with the Holy Quran being the main guide to our legal system. Shiara law is the law of our land and we cannot include any decadent secular Western systems into our national system.

If you cannot allow Algeristan this degree of independence, then we will take our case to the UN to repeal the anti-torture laws and the disgusting liberal support for criminals away from UN laws. If that were to fail, then Algeristan will LEAVE the UN and thus be free of this stupid restrictions on our national sovereignty.

I hope you respond to this in a civil and level headed manner.

From the President of the Holy Republic of Algeristan

Sayeed al Bkar

OOC: I was not seriously making any hostile threats - although I'm sure if Hirota was not making such threats, it's be some of the other nations on here. Indeed, I'd like to think Hirota is one of the cooler heads that is a regular on the UN boards. But let me address your points, beginning with torture and going against the UN.

IC: Unfortunately, whilst Hirota can respect the fact that you are simply following your faith, the UN as an organisation is not so tolerant - indeed I'd say it's almost hostile to the concept of faith dictating legislation. That's probably because the UN is dominated by aethists and agnostics. Myself included, although I'm pretty tolerant and open towards organised faiths.

The UN has passed those resolutions, and for as long as you are a member of the UN then you surrender the right to legislate in opposition to those resolutions. They are passed, thus you have to comply. The magic UN gnomes do their business and before you know it, it's law in your nation. Indeed, even the Holy Quran has to take a back seat to the gnomes in Nationstates.

It's probably one of the things that most annoys newer UN nations, and is probably responsible for a good many nations quitting the UN so soon after joining.

I'd welcome your efforts to repeal the resolutions earlier mentioned - I think they do happen to encourage the philosophies of one culture above all others, but Hirota would vote against a repeal simply because we find torture distasteful. <shrugs> but you are well within your powers to try and write a repeal and change the UN's ruling on this :)

But please don't become outraged if your repeals fall on deaf ears, the UN would benefit from more variation in it's members beliefs and opinions, and that can only happen when nations stay and work on the UN from within.

I'll address your points on crime and cannabis shortly.

Greetings.

We of Roathin, given the existing situation, recommend that Algeristan leave the NSUN, as its national culture would appear incompatible.

To: President of the Holy Republic of Algeristan

Whilst we DISAGREE with your views that users must not be punished,We did not say must not. Hirota simply does not prosecute users, preferring to allocate our resources to the cause of the problem - which in our opinion is the suppliers. There is nothing in UN legislation that prevents you from treating users as criminals at present. Hirota is not personally in the business of forcing nations to do anything not enshrined in UN lesgilation, and we do apologise if you misunderstood our intentions.|You claim that our use of torture is 'inhumane', nonsense!Not my claim - it's the UN's. I've explained that in my previous post :) Although Hirota did not state in their previous communication that we find torture inhumane, we do believe that is the case.

Algeristan sees that cannabis can cause THREE problems to society:

1.) Problems related to crime and social disorder.

2.) Health problems and it's effects on the mind of the user.

3.) The financial cost related to treating drug abuse.

As you can see, crime is a BIG problem in our nation, with the law being shown disrespect by many people, its only right that Algeristan makes an example of those people who break the law and comes down hard on those who think the law does not apply to them.If you make the act legal, then it is no longer a crime. I've seen a few intelligence reports on my desk of more corrupt governments cutting police funding, and legalising several "criminal" acts to reduce the crime stats...that's clearly going too far, but if you decriminalise cannabis, then your law enforcement agencies will not be busy enforcing the law on that particular aspect, and better equipped to deal with the real bad stuff (murder etc).

As for the financial cost, I wonder if it costs more to have a massively funded police force, and deal with the demand of incarcarating so many people than it does to provide medical support, and encourage responsible drug taking.If an Algeristani citizen does not want to be punished and does not want to be tortured, then that citizen must NOT break the law. This is a very SIMPLE and EASY formula!If we increase the scale somewhat to international law rather than Algeristani law, if Algeristan does not want to be subject to foreign pressure (such as political, diplomatic, enconomic, or.....military) then the nation has to abide by it's obligations under UN international law. It's just as simple and straightforward a concept as your example :)
Algeristan has NEVER been convinced by the liberal mantra that criminals are equal to law abiding citizens and that they must be treated with certain rights. Criminals have NO rights! Perhaps unfortunately, the UN is dominated by those who are convinved by that mantra. I think the UN could do with more diversity.Besides, even if Algeristan wanted to change our legal system, WE CAN'T!Luckily the gnomes can, and have once you joined the United Nations.If that were to fail, then Algeristan will LEAVE the UN and thus be free of this stupid restrictions on our national sovereignty.The restrictions do suck sometimes - for example I really don't want my nation to be seen endorsing the idea that the act of taking advantage of a woman (AKA prostitution) is okay. I'm lucky enough to have found a moral loophole (by saying that whilst the selling of themselves is legal - in line with the UN, it is not legal to purchase such services). You've just got to find yourself the same loophole without directly going against the wishes of the UN.

Like I've earlier said, it would be a great shame for you to leave the UN so early - I think the UN would benefit from greater diversity, and your nation does offer something different from the average nation who is within the UN.

Hirota does not personally agree with your position on many matters, but respects your arguements, and wishes you well in whatever your government decides to do.

Greetings.

We of Roathin, given the existing situation, recommend that Algeristan leave the NSUN, as its national culture would appear incompatible.

how else can the "existing situation" change if not from within?

I don't want Algeristan to leave - their communications appear to be well reasoned and intelligent. They might not be what is considered the normal UN line, but I think the UN needs diversity in it's beliefs to become more balanced and respected in the international community.

I would seek to work with Algeristan and other nations to try and establish a broader consensus before giving in so blithely and simply telling the nation(s) to leave the UN.

Everyone who wants to legalise marijuana is a disgrace to the UN!
You people make me so frustrated I Just want do some thing like this! :headbang:

We feel that adult individuals' bodies ought to be their own property - that is a fundamental human right. To legislate against their right to introduce chemicals into their own bodies is, as far as we are concerned, a declaration that the state has claimed at least partial ownership of said bodies.

We feel that adult individuals' bodies ought to be their own property - that is a fundamental human right. To legislate against their right to introduce chemicals into their own bodies is, as far as we are concerned, a declaration that the state has claimed at least partial ownership of said bodies.
Greetings.

We of Roathin note that this venerable and august assembly does indeed maintain that certain forms of control over the kind of substances available for introduction must be maintained. For example, the various resolutions seeking to maintain 'cleaner air' and suchlike. In such cases, the right to introduce such substances into one's own body is not abrogated, but the right of NSUN member nations to keep contaminating substances available is at issue. This is because the NSUN's members voluntarily subject themselves to NSUN resolutions.

We further apologise for appearing to wish the precipitate disappearance of Algeristan from the NSUN. We merely wished to point out one logical avenue of action. As Hirota rebuked us, that course of action is not necessarily in the long-term interests of this august assembly. We agree.

Everyone who wants to legalise marijuana is a disgrace to the UN!
You people make me so frustrated I Just want do some thing like this! :headbang:

Interestingly enough, those in favor of legalizing marajuana have also suffered from some sort of head trauma.

Huh? We have international threats and talk of leaving the UN, all over a proposal which hasn't even been posted on the forums? Please, just let it be - if you don't pay attention to proposals, then they simply disappear. Whereas, if you keep up the attention on it, there is an increased chance of the proposal getting enough publicity to reach quorum, and then where will we be?

Algeristan has RESIGNED from the UN.

Our nation has now left this decadent, corrupt and Godless alliance.

Therefore Algeristan has strengthened it's sovereignty and freedom and thrown of the chains of western imperialism.

Algeristan has RESIGNED from the UN.

Dibs on your office supplies! :D

Sigh...Once again we are forced to claim that this issue is best left to each individual nation to decide for themselves.

We would not support any resolution that would force a nation to legalized or make it illegal. That would mean the UN dipping far to deep into the rights of nations.

Minister to the UN
Henry Peabody

The UN is an association of many different nations each of which with its own culture, history, problems and solutions to these problems.

Clearly, the legalization or criminalization of specific substances like marijuana, tabacco or alchool are solutions that the states adopt to answer their very specifical problems and it can not be claimed that there is a coarse of action concerning this issue that is better than others.

Each UN resolution enforces all the UN nations to adopt a particular solution to a particular problem. This is a very big responsability.

The people of Obcessive Technocracy feels that the decision on the set of ilicit substances and the penalizations for their use must consider the specific context of each nation. Therefore this issue should be addressed by each nation individually and not imposed by the UN.

We will not support this proposal.

We of Roathin note that this venerable and august assembly does indeed maintain that certain forms of control over the kind of substances available for introduction must be maintained. For example, the various resolutions seeking to maintain 'cleaner air' and suchlike. In such cases, the right to introduce such substances into one's own body is not abrogated, but the right of NSUN member nations to keep contaminating substances available is at issue. This is because the NSUN's members voluntarily subject themselves to NSUN resolutions.

That's hardly comparable. Nobody's suggesting that we pump amounts of second-hand cannabis smoke into the atmosphere sufficient to have a real impact on other people, and likewise, the UN does not take away the rights of individuals to breathe all the SO2, CO2 and smog they like - as long as they don't unleash it on the rest of us. The precedent we have is only for legislating on the emission of pollutants to such an extent that it threatens the well being of others, for instance via global warming. I don't mind legislation protecting people from passive smoking, but as long as others aren't being made to breathe it, why shouldn't individuals be allowed to use it themselves?

Algeristan has RESIGNED from the UN.

Our nation has now left this decadent, corrupt and Godless alliance.

Therefore Algeristan has strengthened it's sovereignty and freedom and thrown of the chains of western imperialism.

The Supremely democratic states of Hirota wish to express their sadness that a nation which appeared so eloquent and well reasoned had to see fit to resign from the UN.

We wish their government well in all future endeavours.