NationStates Jolt Archive

I've been looking at UN passed resolutions and I've realized that the nations that make up the UN are having their own rights taken away and given to the UN so I made a proposal to reverse this trend. Look it up and tell me what y'all think.

Save National Rights
A resolution to improve worldwide human and civil rights.


Category: Human Rights
Strength: Strong
Proposed by: Common Europe

Description: It seems that ever since the establishment of the United Nations, every new proposal limits one right or another of the national goverments, the goverments which make up the United Nations. International law is but the broadest term of law and thus should be left to that. Therefor, I propose that internationl law be limited on the following grouds or rights and liberties of the national goverment.

Right I, Education: Henceforth, the United Nations will have the power to require educations of a nations citizens and consequences for not meeting that requirement. It shall also have the power to set up a minimal number of schools for primary, secondary, and higher education. Finally, the United Nations will have the power to set up international requirements for degrees. The United Nations however will stay out of education budgets, the hiring of teachers, the operating of those vacinities unless they in one country are in desperate need, which will be determined by a council inspection.

Right II, Civil Wars: Henceforth, the United Nations and any country within, unless it directly effects them, will not send any aid during a civil war. That is a strictly national affair and should be handled as a matter of the state(s)of that nation. The only international help will be in the form of the Red Cross.

Right III, Govermental Setups: Henceforth, the United Nations will not interfer in govermental setups. That is strictly a matter of the state of how it chooses to style it's goverment. Some of the populas may prefer communism over democracy, it's up to them to decide. How it models it's pareliment and elections is also strictly up to that state. Any state to interfer and/or set up a puppet regime shall be punished as seen fit by a council of international officals, the majority making up the specific country in which the problem arose.

In conclusion I say to all, the United Nations has grown over little things that have added up over time. It is time for the nations who make up the United Nations to take their fate back into their hands and letting the United Nations do as it was set up for and limiting it to only that.

Approvals: 1 (Common Europe)

Status: Lacking Support (requires 147 more approvals)

Voting Ends: Mon May 2 2005



~PC

I knew I forgot something, thanks

I very much approve of the sentiment, but the proposal needs a little editing and some of it is redundant.

Eiditing yeah, but the purpose of the reduance was to keep reinforcing the point instead of letting it drift off since I usually tend to babble :D

Henceforth, the United Nations will have the power to require educations of a nations citizens and consequences for not meeting that requirement.

We already do this in a number of fashions, so it might not be necessary to state this - but it doesn't hurt either.

It shall also have the power to set up a minimal number of schools for primary, secondary, and higher education.

Absolutely not. Quantity and quality, while they may correlate in many circumstances, are not the same measure, and while this clause doesn't force a set number, it certainly implies that there's some 'magic number' we need to find. I don't believe that there's any good way to do this that won't force many nations to overfund useless locations, whether the number is fixed or varies with population.

Finally, the United Nations will have the power to set up international requirements for degrees.

That's all well and good, but I think that forcing Krioval to automatically accept another nation's degree as equivalent to ours would be a bad idea, and I can see nations clamoring for this. If nothing else, let individual nations/organizations determine the value of a given degree by themselves.

The United Nations however will stay out of education budgets, the hiring of teachers, the operating of those vacinities unless they in one country are in desperate need, which will be determined by a council inspection.

Messy and possibly contradictory with other aspects of this proposal. For example, how can the UN mandate a number of schools but not be interfering in one's education budget to some degree? The 'council inspection' is likewise problematic - which 'council' is doing the investigating? How could a future resolution begin to deal with the nightmares inherent to dealing with an unnamed committee?

Henceforth, the United Nations and any country within, unless it directly effects them, will not send any aid during a civil war. That is a strictly national affair and should be handled as a matter of the state(s)of that nation. The only international help will be in the form of the Red Cross.

Absolutely not. If one side friendly to Krioval requests aid, it will be sent. And for those of us who manage aid directly in addition to the IRCO, we have the *right* to ship our goods where they are desired. To compel a nation to do otherwise is a blatant violation of that nation's economic rights. Further, if international coalitions want to send aid, why is this a problem? If a peaceful government is overthrown by bloodthirsty maniacs, I think that I'm going in to restore the original government, especially if requested, rather than wait for the IRCO to send universal aid that goes straight to the rebels.

Henceforth, the United Nations will not interfer in govermental setups.

That'd be the end of "Furtherment of Democracy" and "Political Stability" proposals. It would also contravene Resolution #8 ("Citizen Rule Required").

Any state to interfer and/or set up a puppet regime shall be punished as seen fit by a council of international officals, the majority making up the specific country in which the problem arose.

Redundant, with regards to TPP, and dangerous as it's worded above. If Krioval gets embroiled in a war with someone and wins, the government in that nation will be a 'puppet government' for at least a certain period of time, if only to re-establish order. Further problems crop up when the 'puppet regime' is embraced as a liberating force, which is rare, but could happen, and I don't think yet another unnamed committee is going to be useful here.

It is time for the nations who make up the United Nations to take their fate back into their hands and letting the United Nations do as it was set up for and limiting it to only that.

Well, in blunt (possibly brutal) honesty, this proposal restricts how I may act in the international arena even more than the stuff I already have to follow. If this passed, I'd effectively have to watch an allied government succumb to rebellious elements instead of powering in and propping up the current government. I wouldn't even be allowed to trade with any nation in which there was a dispute as to who was in power, for that matter.

I'd be subject to arbitrary UN votes determining the value of a Kriovalian university diploma, and I'd be building [X] number of schools because that's the 'right number'. So my educational policy is taken out of my hands as well. Finally, I can't demand that political rights in other countries be increased according to this, because all governments are declared equivalent in legitimacy - this effectively neuters an entire class of proposals as well.

In the name of national sovereignty, Krioval will oppose this proposal.

First of all, I think it's fine if you oppose it. Not everyone agrees on the world stage, that's completely fine with em. I'm not niave on that part and I realized that not everyone would respond to that so well.

However, with the amount of schools, I didn't mean a specific number. But lets face it, one school for a nation isn't enough and 1 million under funded school's aren't either. Just a good estimate.

To the degrees, that would mean that if one immigrated to another nation, their degree that they worked hard for could be marked as useless and they could need to put in more years. I think there should be a universal system on degrees as people are moving more and more and it just causes problems if the degress are nationalized, as contradictory to the proposal as it sounds.

The budget, the UN honestly doesn't need to get invovled at all. The country can use it's own judgement.

Civil Wars, in not only mine but many others opinions are strictly state affairs. Trade to me isn't aid but sending troops to help fight along side is. I know you can't stay completely neutral with economic issues and sometimes political boundries. Aid isn't helping the other side if the first side tries to attack your own borders. Aid is sending help in any form and the only type of aid that's really needed can be handled by the Red Cross.

As I recall though, citizens elected the first communist regime in Russia. The point to that being that it's none of the UN's business what type of goverment the people elect and keeps. To impose democracy on those who refuse to accept it is just lighting a fuse that could start a potential war.

I don't mean like if you're in a war with another and ect ect ect as you said. I mean deliberatly setting up a puppet regime with no agreession from the country is provoked. When I say that, I'm citing Poland as an example. It had the power in the 17th century to become a great nation. However, other nations who had no business interfering in Polish affairs set up their own puppet regimes and by the 18th century, there wasn't a Poland left.

The committee stuff I can see your point to.

I should have gone into greater detail, but some of the assumptions you made based on spaces I left weren't my intention at all with it.

I seriously hope English is not your first language...


Description: It seems that ever since the establishment of the United Nations, every new proposal limits one right or another of the national goverments,

Yep, that's what proposals do, and that is all they can do... That is what this one does... (Common England's IQ setting: 100)


International law is but the broadest term of law

Huh?(Common England's IQ setting: 95)


and thus should be left to that.

Left to what? The broadest term?(Common England's IQ setting: 90)


Therefor, I propose that internationl law be limited on the following grouds or rights and liberties of the national goverment.

::KLAXON::KLAXON:: Illegal proposal! Violation of Rule 7 regarding amendments

"You may not submit a proposal that 'changes' the wording or effect of a passed resolution. You can make a repeal proposal if you really want to see the back of one, but that's it."

(Common England's IQ setting: 85)

Right I, Education:


We have that one... In fact, we had two of them, but repealed one because it was less restrictive....


Henceforth, the United Nations will have the power to require educations of a nations citizens and consequences for not meeting that requirement.

Well, if it does happen, I hope they require it of you first... You definitely need "educations"...


It shall also have the power to set up a minimal number of schools for primary, secondary, and higher education.

Minimal number? You know, there have been many overlording resolutions in this takes the cake... Wait a minute... Wasn't the intent of this proposal AGAINST taking over national sovereignty?

(Common England's IQ setting: 80)

Finally, the United Nations will have the power to set up international requirements for degrees.

"degrees".... What "degrees"? There are lots of degrees... All of us are at even differing tech levels... How can a FFT nation be placed into the same degree category requirement as a MT? Hell, my 9 year old is taking primary school courses some of your nations do not even teach till college...


The United Nations however will stay out of education budgets, the hiring of teachers, the operating of those vacinities

Cool, we can have the "minimum number" of empty unfunded buildings.... What is it those two beer guys say on that commercial? Oh yeah.... BRILLIANT!!!!

(Common England's IQ setting: 75)

unless they in one country are in desperate need, which will be determined by a council inspection.

What council?


Right II, Civil Wars:

Wow... never seen Civil war as a "right" before.... Cool...


Henceforth, the United Nations and any country within, unless it directly effects them, will not send any aid during a civil war.

BRILLIANT! So, I won't be able to get support from UN allies to help put down a tyrant rebellion who is commiting genocide on one of my planets because it is an "internal matter"...


That is a strictly national affair and should be handled as a matter of the state(s)of that nation. The only international help will be in the form of the Red Cross.

Yes, and we know how much help an earthbound group can do for my state...


Right III, Govermental Setups:

Do the instructions come in English?


Henceforth, the United Nations will not interfer in govermental setups.

Never has.... Not "directly" at least... That's what the Rights and Duties resolution is for...


That is strictly a matter of the state of how it chooses to style it's goverment.

goverNment = state.... The "state" never chooses itself... It is chosen by the people... Even if not consciously...


Some of the populas may prefer communism over democracy, it's up to them to decide.

Up... pure communism is a democracy.... See, pure commuism sees rule by the people.... and democracy is rule by the people...


How it models it's pareliment and elections is also strictly up to that state.

You mean the people... If it has elections, its run by the people, not the state... two different beasts there my friend.... Also, not all states have a parliament... I have a bivested legislature (House of Delegates, and Senate)...


Any state to interfer and/or set up a puppet regime shall be punished as seen fit by a council of international officals, the majority making up the specific country in which the problem arose.

What specifically is a "puppet regime"?


In conclusion I say to all, the United Nations has grown over little things that have added up over time.

Yes... that's what "Growth" is... And, as you know, if things don't grow... They die....


It is time for the nations who make up the United Nations to take their fate back into their hands and letting the United Nations do as it was set up for and limiting it to only that.

1. We never let our fate out of our hands to begin with...
2. The UN is no different now than when it started, as far as its scope of power... It has always had the power it has now, and always will...


Final Suggestions:
1. Use a spell checker...
2. Use proper capitalization and punctuation
3. Think before you start typing
4. If all else fails, stop writting proposals...

I seriously hope English is not your first language...

Yep, that's what proposals do, and that is all they can do... That is what this one does... (Common England's IQ setting: 100)

Huh?(Common England's IQ setting: 95)

Left to what? The broadest term?(Common England's IQ setting: 90)

-snip-

(Common England's IQ setting: 85)


-snip-

Well, if it does happen, I hope they require it of you first... You definitely need "educations"...

-snip-

(Common England's IQ setting: 80)

-snip-

(Common England's IQ setting: 75)


Grow up, Tekania. This is verifiable flame/flamebait.


Final Suggestions:
1. Use a spell checker...
2. Use proper capitalization and punctuation
3. Think before you start typing
4. If all else fails, stop writting proposals...
[emphasis added]

That's never, never the advice I, or any other half-way polite UN member would suggest. Common England write away! Write all the time, every day! Keep writing!

Just so y'all know, it's Common Europe ;)

Tekania, a traditional parliment is bivested. It's reasonably assumed it's a parliment as most countries are, but I get where you're coming from.

I honestly don't mind. That's why I posted it up here, but thanks Powerhungry Chipmunks

we are against this. firstly, it is our belief that the UN should stay out of education systems. the makeup of nations in the UN is too diverse for the UN to make desicions regarding education within countries. secondly, we agree with Krioval: if a nation wants to help out one side in a civil war, they should be allowed to. since the UN has not and cannot have an armed force, it is pretty usless putting this one in because it is unenforcable. sure, a nation could attempt to intervien(sp) in protecting it if it becomes a resolution, but another nation could say that this interviening(sp) nation is breaking the same resolution. as for the third point, it is illegal because it goes against an already passed resolution. mind you, that passed resolution has loopholes, allowing even a dictatorship to be unaffected by it

First, thank you, Common Europe, for taking my criticism in the spirit in which it is intended. A revised proposal might get my support, I admit. Let me see which points I can accept and which are completely anathema to Krioval.

However, with the amount of schools, I didn't mean a specific number. But lets face it, one school for a nation isn't enough and 1 million under funded school's aren't either. Just a good estimate.

True. I've never had a problem with a proposal that would state that a "minimum" number of schools would actually be based on population density and availability of transportation, for example. I actually do worry that someone would try to mandate a literal "thou shalt not be below this number" number of physical buildings, which would likely be a disaster.

To the degrees, that would mean that if one immigrated to another nation, their degree that they worked hard for could be marked as useless and they could need to put in more years. I think there should be a universal system on degrees as people are moving more and more and it just causes problems if the degress are nationalized, as contradictory to the proposal as it sounds.

The sticking point here is that Krioval is a future-tech nation (we're uncommon, but not rare), so a doctorate in chemical engineering in Krioval is far more comprehensive than a similar degree in a modern-tech nation. I would be receptive to mandating programs to test for one's proficiency in an area where a degree is awarded, and create a special location for additional training if it is needed. Ultimately, Krioval values educated immigrants, and we work to ensure that they can be matched with a position in the workforce. At the very least, the material common to both degrees shouldn't have to be repeated.

The budget, the UN honestly doesn't need to get invovled at all. The country can use it's own judgement.

I typically agree, but I'm hesitant to mandate that the UN can *never* interfere in the budget, if only because should an amazingly-worded proposal be drafted that *does* interfere, either that proposal or your resolution would have to be scrapped. But really, in spirit, I see your point.

Civil Wars, in not only mine but many others opinions are strictly state affairs. Trade to me isn't aid but sending troops to help fight along side is. I know you can't stay completely neutral with economic issues and sometimes political boundries. Aid isn't helping the other side if the first side tries to attack your own borders. Aid is sending help in any form and the only type of aid that's really needed can be handled by the Red Cross.

I guess my point is that the citizenry can be coerced or forced to go along with the whims of those with the guns, and while I'm hesitant to intervene in a civil war without being requested, if I'm requested and willing, I think I should have the right to enter the conflict. Also, if a war between two powers broke out, I still could see the losing side claiming to be in a 'civil war' to demand the withdrawal of the winning nation. Yeah, it's totally against the spirit of what you're saying, but resolution abuse is prevalent and some provisions need to be tighter than a drumhead to minimize this - this clause is one of those times.

As I recall though, citizens elected the first communist regime in Russia. The point to that being that it's none of the UN's business what type of goverment the people elect and keeps. To impose democracy on those who refuse to accept it is just lighting a fuse that could start a potential war.

I'm not concerned so much with an established government choosing one political or economic style. Krioval isn't completely democratic (the Commander has strong veto power and is in office for life), for example. Some dictatorships can be benevolent and transparent while some democracies can be oppressive and corrupt. Unless they've done something to us, we don't really bother. But I still think that civil wars are a special circumstance in which another country could become involved if one side asks. Remember that one doesn't have to intervene if one doesn't want to.

I don't mean like if you're in a war with another and ect ect ect as you said. I mean deliberatly setting up a puppet regime with no agreession from the country is provoked. When I say that, I'm citing Poland as an example. It had the power in the 17th century to become a great nation. However, other nations who had no business interfering in Polish affairs set up their own puppet regimes and by the 18th century, there wasn't a Poland left.

Then make your case more complete - say that it refers to situations in which there was no prior conflict, but was instead a subversion of an established government followed by occupation. I think that's a bad thing too. When there's any chance of doubt, spell out every last detail. It's almost always easier to delete material from a proposal than add it later.

I should have gone into greater detail, but some of the assumptions you made based on spaces I left weren't my intention at all with it.

The problem will always be that text conveys no intentions of the author unless they're written out clearly. All in all, your first draft isn't bad - but it's definitely a first draft. Good luck ironing out some of the tricky points. You've got strong potential for writing a good proposal here.

Illegal Proposal - Game Mechanics.

I believe you may be crossing into various categories with this, and it may be better to write each of the points as different proposals.

I believe that Education is considered Social Justice, not Human Rights. But don't quote me on that - others may believe differently.
Civil Wars are always difficult to decide over, but currently I am not sure this is completely legal - the Pretenama Panel, as empowered by the EON Convention and Humanitarian Intervention, may investigate and otherwise interfere with any nation if there is sufficient evidence of serious crimes (genocide, crimes against humanity, war crimes etc.) I would suggest reading over both those proposals to make sure you don't clash with them.
Your section on government types is not needed, as I read it. It seems to re-phrase part of Rights and Duties of UN States. As such, it may be considered redundant. In any case, it would fit better under either "Furtherment of Democracy" or "Political Stability" than under "Human Rights".

Your ideas for the first two are sound, you just need to re-phrase them and check that they fit the categories available. I hope this has been of use.

Tekania, a traditional parliment is bivested. It's reasonably assumed it's a parliment as most countries are, but I get where you're coming from.


You must understand however that "parliament" and "legislature" is not the same thing... A parliament exercizes supreme authority, legislaure just have the power to make laws in representation (differing of degree)... A legislature has less power than a parliament (since the power normative to the parliament is shared between a Legislature, Executive and Judiciary)... Trust me, we're talking about different beasts... even though they may look similar.
A parliament is a type of legislature... but legislatures are not all parliaments... If you get my meaning.....

BTW: Revise, Grammar and Spelling repaired


Description: It seems that ever since the establishment of the United Nations, every new proposal limits one right or another of the national governments which make up the United Nations. International law is but the broadest term of law and thus should be left to that. Therefore, I propose that international law be limited on the following grounds or rights and liberties of the national government.

Right I, Education: Henceforth, the United Nations will have the power to require educations of a nation’s citizens and consequences for not meeting that requirement. It shall also have the power to set up a minimal number of schools for primary, secondary, and higher education. Finally, the United Nations will have the power to set up international requirements for degrees. The United Nations however will stay out of education budgets, the hiring of teachers, the operating of those vicinities unless they in one country are in desperate need, which will be determined by a council inspection.

Right II, Civil Wars: Henceforth, the United Nations and any country within, unless it directly affects them, will not send any aid during a civil war. That is a strictly national affair and should be handled as a matter of the state(s) of that nation. The only international help will be in the form of the Red Cross.

Right III, Governmental Setups: Henceforth, the United Nations will not interfere in governmental setups. That is strictly a matter of the state of how it chooses to style its government. Some of the populace may prefer communism over democracy, it's up to them to decide. How it models its parliament and elections is also strictly up to that state. Any state to interfere and/or set up a puppet regime shall be punished as seen fit by a council of international officials, the majority making up the specific country in which the problem arose.

In conclusion I say to all, the United Nations has grown over little things that have added up over time. It is time for the nations who make up the United Nations to take their fate back into their hands and letting the United Nations do as it was set up for and limiting it to only that.


It still, however, is illegal... Since resolutions may not effect existing resolutions, without repeal first..

I agree with Enn - the proposal should be split into sections dealing with education, war, and restrictions on UN interference in government. Then comes the tough part (for any proposal writer). You need to read *all* the passed resolutions to see if any conflict with or replicate your proposal (don't worry if you're not sure, just post all possible conflicts and let us help with that). If you have something new and non-contradictory, then we can debate its merits, and you can submit it.