NationStates Jolt Archive

came across this proposal, which ends soon, but i would fully support when it comes to vote.
Stop Spyware
A resolution to reduce barriers to free trade and commerce.


Category: Free Trade
Strength: Mild
Proposed by: Spyderiom

Description: It shall be made a crime to create any software that covertly gathers user information through the user's Internet connection without his or her knowledge.

Spyware applications are typically bundled as a hidden component of freeware or shareware programs that can be downloaded from the Internet; however, it should be noted that the majority of shareware and freeware applications do not come with spyware.

Once installed, the spyware monitors user activity on the Internet and transmits that information in the background to someone else. Spyware can also gather information about e-mail addresses and even passwords and credit card numbers. This must be stopped immediately.

This proposal makes it illegal for ANY such program to be installed, even if a program's End Users License Agreement warns of the installation.

Approvals: 84 (Spyderiom, Predatorica, Tarphos, Iznogoud, Wegason, Der Mannia, Black Reading, Zhukhistan, Kelsennia, BLACKGRUE, Blijia, Joshisha, Jamesburgh, The Cariebbean, D-von, Candymanium, Alamount, Crack Pottia, New Happyworld Land, WZ Forums, Brausi-mausi, Wildtypes, Spartanna, Monadnock, Scrivneria, Gaiah, Our Lord Spenser, Saysomething, East Sibir, Finbergia, Zouloukistan, Cowschickens, Christac, America---, New Schaffhausen, Danabunga, Victoria the First, Zappafrank-3834, Dysfunctional Retards, Domino Muthaf- -ka, Macchiavellian Masons, Supa-Smurfland, Rambhutan, Wirczekia, Knuckles Promised Land, Callistine, Guardian elites, The Ethics Union, Sunny Side, Tarsnia, Aughra, Makewaria, Kool peoples, Supreme Disfunction, Romborg, Lost Valley, Clarkestan, Tresifs, Presqu-Isle, THEM Central, The Red Lair, Tomatoe, Technocratic Zealots, Dirobia, Summiumius, Sinitsyn, Birdmanland, Squatia, Blunted coochy, Bobby and Ferrari, Center County, Faceless Assassins, Tell-El-Amarna, Jaghur, NewfoundCana, Andromecca, Stransworthe, The Talisman, Grays Harbor, Rubina, Yellow Discipline, Fu Su Lu, Steenia, Shamb)

Status: Lacking Support (requires 67 more approvals)

Voting Ends: Thu Mar 24 2005



if any deligates read this, can you lend support?

I don't see enough differentiation between government security spyware, corporate security spyware, and hacker spyware to find this worthwhile.

It shall be made a crime to create any software that covertly gathers user information through the user's Internet connection without his or her knowledge.
i guess that would cover all three

i guess that would cover all three

Which is why I oppose. Certain pieces of spyware are security measures.

This should not be a "free trade" rule. It would actually hinder a certain sector of industry, and would provide no benefit to international trade. However, I'm uncertain which other category it would best fit into.

This should not be a "free trade" rule. It would actually hinder a certain sector of industry, and would provide no benefit to international trade. However, I'm uncertain which other category it would best fit into.
I would have to agree, mechanics wise it could be argued for being environmental as it would be restricting business, but it doesn't really help the environment any.

Free Trade as it's less crap on the computer and encourages more exploration of the 'Net. More access -> More exposure -> More business (one world shopping mall).

I hate spyware. Its a criminal invasion of privacy rights and vandalism of privately owned property.

Perhaps "Moral Decency"? Civil rights are technically being restricted by banning a form of speech.

Yes, it seems most likely to be a "moral decency" proposal.
You know, I don't think there's a single moral decency proposal that was ever passed by the UN. There haven't been any, have there?

It's restricting a right in the name of getting rid of a general nuisance that the majority agree is harmful.

[Edit] With what Vastiva just said, that renders this void. Ugh, it's a thorny question, isn't it?

Perhaps "Moral Decency"? Civil rights are technically being restricted by banning a form of speech.

Precisely how is spyware "a form of speech"??? That's like saying going through your mail is a form of speech.

I think I like this one, but I have to think about it.

As written, it doesn't seem to outlaw web browsers, but it might outlaw various types of diagnostics and end-user support.

It seems to severely restrict the legality of cookies. That might not be a bad thing, but I need to think through the ramifications.

Perhaps "Moral Decency"? Civil rights are technically being restricted by banning a form of speech.

But it's not free speech. Free speech doesn't give someone the right to break into my house to gather information, why should it give them the right to break into my computer?

I would like to see a more clear definition of spyware, perhaps a way to distinguish it from Adware. Adware, while annoying, doesn't seem to be an invasion the way that spyware does.

I would like to see a more clear definition of spyware, perhaps a way to distinguish it from Adware. Adware, while annoying, doesn't seem to be an invasion the way that spyware does.

No, it's just more likely to make your computer go haywire than spyware. I thoink this proposal should include adware, as well as all other forms of viruses (that's what adware and spyware amount to IMO), unless there's a previous resolution I've already forgotten that deals with viruses.

Even if the other stuff I want isn't added, though, I'd support this proposal as-is. I'm just not sure how much good my endorsement does, since I'm not a delegate. :(

Sypware can not be stopped at all theres about 1,000,000 different types of spyware and it would take about 10 years to remove all of the sypware

I would agree with measures to remove spyware...

(On an off note, working IRL in the IT industry, spyware is as damaging, in many cases as most computer virus'...)

Easiest situation would be to ban the production and distrobution of the damaging applications, and an immediate removal of it's bundling with any present distributed applications... Then allowing for any further distribution of spyware and spyware bundled programs punishable as the law directs.

Punishable as whose law directs? The UN, or the individual nation?

I only ask because white-collar criminals are given the death penalty in Olwe, due to our zero-tolerance policy for greed.

Free Trade as it's less crap on the computer and encourages more exploration of the 'Net. More access -> More exposure -> More business (one world shopping mall).I don't think any of our current categories would cover this correctly.A resolution to reduce barriers to free trade and commerce.

"It shall be made a crime to create any software that covertly gathers user information ..."
This is a proposal to restrict the creation of specific types of software. No matter how you cut it, that isn't a reduction in barriers to free trade and commerce. Increasing restrictions != Reducing barriers.

Let me also point out that something similar (http://ns.goobergunch.net/wiki/index.php/Freedom_From_SPAM_Act_%28removed%29) was proposed just over a year ago, most likely for being listed as Human Rights. It appears to have expired without making queue, but if it reappears as-is, I will recommend that game mods remove it as illegal categorisation.

I would agree with measures to remove spyware...

(On an off note, working IRL in the IT industry, spyware is as damaging, in many cases as most computer virus'...)

Easiest situation would be to ban the production and distrobution of the damaging applications, and an immediate removal of it's bundling with any present distributed applications... Then allowing for any further distribution of spyware and spyware bundled programs punishable as the law directs.

IRL, it's used by major corporations and government agencies to watch employees and make sure they are not selling secrets or committing crimes. It's also used by certain government agencies as a way to spy on civilians, though not as successfully due to the same people most likely to betray them being paranoid enough to have advanced antispyware software.

I'm with Krioval on calling it Moral Decency. And this may be the only moral decency proposal I'll ever support, so don't go getting any ideas!

I also support Tekania's suggestion to shut down Microsoft (ban the production and distrobution of the damaging applications).

IRL, it's used by major corporations and government agencies to watch employees and make sure they are not selling secrets or committing crimes. It's also used by certain government agencies as a way to spy on civilians, though not as successfully due to the same people most likely to betray them being paranoid enough to have advanced antispyware software.

Given the plethorah of other technologies available from industries such as Vogon Forensics... Standard Search and Seizure techniques can be just as effective... The present use of "government spyware" to gather datum from individuals is just a formated way to circumvent the normal protections from warantless searches... In addition agencies which are using these in conjunction with warants are retrieving no further information than could also be gathered through modern forensic hardware after the proper execution of a waranted search and seizure of the same equipment...

As for corporations... Watching the usage of employees can be done more effective server-side by monitored access via the companies own DNS and cache resources...

This proposal makes it illegal for ANY such program to be installed, even if a program's End Users License Agreement warns of the installation.
How illegal? Even if it is left up to the nation to decide on sentencing, I feel that this needs to be clarified.

I'm with Krioval (and YGSM) on this one. It *is* immoral to go riflling through someones computer without their knowledge, even though the resolution doesn't restrict civil freedoms.

National security wise they can damn well get a warrant. Even if they don't have to inform the target, it should still go through someone unconnected with the government.

if it reappears as-is, I will recommend that game mods remove it as illegal categorisation.
Stop Spyware
A resolution to reduce barriers to free trade and commerce.

Category: Free Trade
Strength: Mild
Proposed by: Spyderiom
If anyone is in contact with the author, point him to this thread. As promised, I'll be asking a Game Mod to remove this later today.

Given the plethorah of other technologies available from industries such as Vogon Forensics... Standard Search and Seizure techniques can be just as effective... The present use of "government spyware" to gather datum from individuals is just a formated way to circumvent the normal protections from warantless searches... In addition agencies which are using these in conjunction with warants are retrieving no further information than could also be gathered through modern forensic hardware after the proper execution of a waranted search and seizure of the same equipment...

It's pretty impressive how much damage you can do to a computer's memory in five minutes and how impossible data becomes to retrieve after that.

As for corporations... Watching the usage of employees can be done more effective server-side by monitored access via the companies own DNS and cache resources...

Yes, except when the employees switch servers. The average internet user ends up using two or three servers, if not more. Besides, most companies don't own DNS due to cost issues, but instead contract out to another company.

Here is something all people making spyware( execpt for government controlled) should be tracked by special elite hacker teams and if your country is supporting them it is duty to arrest them , if some poorer nations wish to not do this , then an invasion shall take place tracking down the crimmials , and forbidding the entire country for having computers in personal usage for an amount of time

It's pretty impressive how much damage you can do to a computer's memory in five minutes and how impossible data becomes to retrieve after that.



Yes, except when the employees switch servers. The average internet user ends up using two or three servers, if not more. Besides, most companies don't own DNS due to cost issues, but instead contract out to another company.

On the first point... It is irregardless... Government has the most resources to use in the trial of an individual... Therefore its hands should be tied the most... I could care less how much information can be destroyed in a short period, it is still a violation of existing jurisprudence...

On the second... All companies maintain internal DNS services, if they have internet access provided to employees... All Server Operating Systems possess DNS capabilities, ownership of a server, means ownership of DNS services... Most of the time this is just cached DNS and not teir 1 or 2 servers... but still, all internal machines in a corporate network are using these DNS Servers, these DNS servers are maintaining logs, and therefore usage of these logs to track usage by administration is possible with existing equipment and software... Usage of third party spyware for tracked usage is a needless expense, and therefore there is no logical reason to protect it.

The majority of spyware is third party buggy destructive software, and therefore it is dangerous and must be ended in use... Tekanian Federal law already classifies all spyware, regardless of source as virus, the distrobution of such is therefore, like virus, is therefore a terrorist act, and punishable under the same law as terrorism, regardless whether it is acted by a goverment, corporation or individual.

Right on. As long as it is destructive, I'm for banning it. :) As for the invasion of privacy argument for nondestructive spyware... perhaps governments should be required to obtain warrants before using it secretly, and in all other cases it should be KNOWN ABOUT (supervisor-ware) and voluntary. Anything else, and it's illegal. But what do I know, I'm just a newb. :rolleyes:

On the first point... It is irregardless... Government has the most resources to use in the trial of an individual... Therefore its hands should be tied the most... I could care less how much information can be destroyed in a short period, it is still a violation of existing jurisprudence...

Government can cite potential danger of evidence being destroyed when they took the action. And who is going to stop them?

On the second... All companies maintain internal DNS services, if they have internet access provided to employees... All Server Operating Systems possess DNS capabilities, ownership of a server, means ownership of DNS services... Most of the time this is just cached DNS and not teir 1 or 2 servers... but still, all internal machines in a corporate network are using these DNS Servers, these DNS servers are maintaining logs, and therefore usage of these logs to track usage by administration is possible with existing equipment and software... Usage of third party spyware for tracked usage is a needless expense, and therefore there is no logical reason to protect it.

And yet, it is still used. Figure that one out if you are so knowledgeable about companies.

The majority of spyware is third party buggy destructive software, and therefore it is dangerous and must be ended in use... Tekanian Federal law already classifies all spyware, regardless of source as virus, the distrobution of such is therefore, like virus, is therefore a terrorist act, and punishable under the same law as terrorism, regardless whether it is acted by a goverment, corporation or individual.

The majority of it should be dealt with, but the fact remains that some of it still has a purpose.

Government can cite potential danger of evidence being destroyed when they took the action. And who is going to stop them?

Such a government would be rogue and terrorist... And therefore possess no protections under international law.


And yet, it is still used. Figure that one out if you are so knowledgeable about companies.

It is used, because determination of the process is made by executives, who possess no knowledge of their own systems... An ineffeciency that occurs in free-market economies. Administrators, for the most part, are idiots when it comes to ITS issues... And will rely on the sales departments of companies offering such tracking software, as to their needs, as opposed to asking their own ITS or equivalent departments for solutions.


The majority of it should be dealt with, but the fact remains that some of it still has a purpose.

While some of it had an appearant purpose... None of it is necessary... And therefore removing it in no way makes it impossible for the few who may, in ignorance, rely on it, from performing their necessary duties.

Such a government would be rogue and terrorist... And therefore possess no protections under international law.

No international law says they would. Nor is there an authority for the UN to declare them rogue and terrorist. Rogue nations are those outside the UN that exist outside of alliances.

It is used, because determination of the process is made by executives, who possess no knowledge of their own systems... An ineffeciency that occurs in free-market economies. Administrators, for the most part, are idiots when it comes to ITS issues... And will rely on the sales departments of companies offering such tracking software, as to their needs, as opposed to asking their own ITS or equivalent departments for solutions.

Which is also why most companies contract out for internet service and internet-related issues.

While some of it had an appearant purpose... None of it is necessary... And therefore removing it in no way makes it impossible for the few who may, in ignorance, rely on it, from performing their necessary duties.

Computers also aren't necessary, but they are helpful and have a purpose.

Some of the reliance on it deals with roving systems, such as laptops, that exist partially outside of an established system and yet may still carry vital documents on company or government business. Those are a very high threat due to not requiring company internet service to still access the internet and deal with company business.

You want another example? Take DLE. Our form of the Internet is used everywhere. Ships each have their own form of a modem and self-contained systems, all the while being able to communicate and exchange files with others. Each planet has its own internet system, as well as each orbital platform. Using a DNS protocol would be impractical due to the massive number of ships combined with the size of planets and how many orbital platforms we have. Instead, we use spyware that logs activity and regularly sends updates to government facilities on Terran. And, yes, most military personel are well aware we are monitoring them.

No international law says they would. Nor is there an authority for the UN to declare them rogue and terrorist. Rogue nations are those outside the UN that exist outside of alliances.

We will consider you rogue terrorist states for using malicious code... if it leaks into our borders... or is used accross our borders...


Which is also why most companies contract out for internet service and internet-related issues.

This has nothing to do with INTERnet.... This is INTRAnet... which is company internal...


Some of the reliance on it deals with roving systems, such as laptops, that exist partially outside of an established system and yet may still carry vital documents on company or government business. Those are a very high threat due to not requiring company internet service to still access the internet and deal with company business.

I could care less... It is malicious code...


You want another example? Take DLE. Our form of the Internet is used everywhere. Ships each have their own form of a modem and self-contained systems, all the while being able to communicate and exchange files with others. Each planet has its own internet system, as well as each orbital platform. Using a DNS protocol would be impractical due to the massive number of ships combined with the size of planets and how many orbital platforms we have. Instead, we use spyware that logs activity and regularly sends updates to government facilities on Terran. And, yes, most military personel are well aware we are monitoring them.

DNS is not a protocol... It is a service... TCP/UDP is the protocol....

All your servers and routers use DNS to route information... Thus it is not impracticle, because it uses an already inplace existing system for tracking...

In addition, since utilizing the TCP/UDP data streams and DNS server logs for tracking, alll of which have no reliance upon any malicious client-side code, which can provide all the same information... is much more effective and reliable... As such, there is no need to protect your ineffective system, merel because DLE personnel are ignorant of the capabilities of the already existing structure and instead rely on less-effective and borderline malicious client-side code... In effect, by banning the use of this client-side code, we would force the advancement in knowledge of your own personel to use the existing protocols and structures built into the 802 standards, server-side...

Sorry, your argument does not stand up to honest scrutiny...

We will consider you rogue terrorist states for using malicious code... if it leaks into our borders... or is used accross our borders...

If it leaks across your borders, it means you are committing espionage and can expect an invasion force to deal with a security threat immediately.

This has nothing to do with INTERnet.... This is INTRAnet... which is company internal...

Same thing either way.

I could care less... It is malicious code...

It's only malicious if used for malicious purposes. It's just the same as a gun only being a tool of murder if used as such. It is the intent behind the use that makes it what it is. It's still just mindless coding, like a gun is still just a mindless object.

DNS is not a protocol... It is a service... TCP/UDP is the protocol....

And a service can manage to not be a protocol in what way? Protocols are not limited to programming.

Also, we don't use that protocol. It is useful for a planet, but not for dealing with huge lightyears.

All your servers and routers use DNS to route information... Thus it is not impracticle, because it uses an already inplace existing system for tracking...

No, all of our servers use SingaTek Post-Light Systems (STPLS) to route information. The amount of space between Terran and Earth is measured at over 1800 lightyears, and information has to travel that distance rather quickly. It is impractical because of the amount of space (approximately half the galaxy) that information must travel quickly. Keep in mind that I'm talking about lightmillenia, not kilometers, for the amount of space information must travel.

The STPLS would record information except, due to technology requirements, it is part of the graviton jump drive and not in the computer section. No room for memory. Unless you want to explain how you're going to put computer chips inside the most massive magnetic and gravitational object on the ship without frying them once it powers up.

In addition, since utilizing the TCP/UDP data streams and DNS server logs for tracking, alll of which have no reliance upon any malicious client-side code, which can provide all the same information... is much more effective and reliable...

The system is unreliable for the distance data is being sent. It is a sublight system with a signal code that tends to degrade rapidly over a few lightyears, let alone nearly 2000. And that's not dealing with the planets farthest out or the fleets out exploring the galaxy, some of which are on the other side of it and even with our system require years before their communications reach Terran.

As such, there is no need to protect your ineffective system, merel because DLE personnel are ignorant of the capabilities of the already existing structure and instead rely on less-effective and borderline malicious client-side code... In effect, by banning the use of this client-side code, we would force the advancement in knowledge of your own personel to use the existing protocols and structures built into the 802 standards, server-side...

Once again, assuming we use the same internet technology. Haven't you ever wondered how it is communications from the DLE homeworld manage to reach Earth without taking millions of years to do so?

DLE personel are not ignorant of technological capabilities, but we're also not ignorant of their limitations. Yes our system is a little less efficient, but the efficiency of communication itself more than makes up for it.

Sorry, your argument does not stand up to honest scrutiny...

Your arguement assumes too much, ignores a few basic facts about the nation you are talking to, and tries to come off as knowledgeable of our systems without even bothering to consider the technological differences involved.

I would agree because any spyware used for secruity purposes (ie work place and public computers) would require an agreement from the user of the computer.

The Venerable Libertarians Dissagrees with any Spyware or adware for that matter, being installed by agreed or covert means, by any government, Agency, Corporation or Individual.

Privacy is paramount to an individuals rights and in the case of a government sting to ensnare criminals the covert ops should be by overt means.

I believe this is a rights issue as the information is often of a personal nature.

I agree, however, if you want the government to snoop around your computer (or, more realistically, want to participate in a internet version of Neilson ratings for your favorite cereal company :rolleyes: ) that's alright with me. There should be a line in there about no coercing the subjects to agree to be spyware subjects, however.

send me a telegram with any questions about it.

i guess that would cover all three

Then I oppose. For the sake of national security, we shouldn't be prohibited from installing spyware on computers, even against user compliance. Many hackers, money launderers, homosexual pedophiles and even murderers can operate through chat rooms and software security holes, and government spyware could help catch such criminals in the act.

Welsh - Ambassador to the UN from the Empire of Sidestreamer

At the cost of eroding civil liberties such as the right to privacy.

If it leaks across your borders, it means you are committing espionage and can expect an invasion force to deal with a security threat immediately.

If it leaks accross our borders, it would be an act by your personel to do so, since such code is contraban in the CRoT. And would be considered an act of attempted espionage, since we are reffering to software designed to spy on equipment and transmit details to your nation... Want to try it in an international court? You would undoubtedly lose... Since it is your own espionage software violating our equipment.



And a service can manage to not be a protocol in what way? Protocols are not limited to programming.

::taps foot::

A protocol is a system or standard by which data is transmitted. A Service is something that can use differing protocols to provide necessary information.

For example, SMTP, HTTP, TCP/IP, UDP, NetBIEU are protocols in standard Internet/Intranet usage... DNS, WINS, ISS, MMS, are services that can be provided on any number of protocol... WINS and DNS, for example are both forms of service in use by client/servers to determine the location of the information or destination or source of the intended information. Irregardless of what protocols you use, for any substantial network, you will use services so that machine in the system can determine on what protocol and where to retrieve information from another part of the network, or machine on the network.

NetBIEU/NetBIOS, is an ineffiecient protocol that relies on no centralized authority... As such, the for routing to occur, a machine broadcasts a request accross all parts of the network, and the appropriate machine on the network possessingthe data requested responds... Such is only functional on extremely small networks. TCP/IP, UDP, etc. are centralized authorities... They rely on service centralization... Rather than broadcast information accross the network, they seek out central authority (DNS/WINS) to locate the necessary source or destination machines accross the network. This concept of subsetted centralization is necessary for any large network, whereby smaller networks connect to larger networks, which are then connected to even larger ones (like the WWW). Or extraplanetary networks, with planetary and localized sub-networks (sub-nets). Regardless of the forms of protocols, the network will utilize some form or equivalent of DNS/WINS to determine the location of the information or machine being sought. When a request is made, the system seeks out the remote location through its own authority, which may seek out informations from larger authorities... Once the appropriate authority is found (which is protocol independent), the authority (DNS service) provides the client with the actual physical address of the source, whereby the source and client can then begin communications with one another. Since the Service uses the fastest protocols, in all cases, the querry is rapid and virtually unseeable on any extensively fast network structure... However, these services can easily be used to track who is getting what from where... Since all communications must first past through these root and tier authorities before actual data communications (this is also the most rapid and functional way to block access to information between clients and servers... if an authority is configured to deny information to certain clients, those clients will be unable to determine the location of source, and no communication is possible, since the client has no way to determine the actual physical address of ther server). In addition, all information is passing key "nodes" that is large "routers" which pass informations between differentiating networks... Such "nodes" can also log and track communications occuring accross the protocols they provide. For example, a packet sniffer running on a node, would be able to record and log all data going accross it.

For example, the TRSS Kali has several nodes... Lets say a leak were to occur aboard the Kali, this is found through a packet check accross the central nodes onboard the Kali... From there, the source nodes can be found where the information crossed, and those nodes would indicate the source address of the client whereby the information was leaked... Having possession of the information packets transmitted from the logs of the packet sniffers, and the actual physical address of the machine which was used to transmit such data... We can then determine, though domain registration the actual perpetrator of the leak.... Without the need for "spyware" software on any client machine whatsoever, we have all the physical evidence necessary to "plug the leak"... Or in the case of such a crime, installing a flow-through ventilation system in the skull of the culprit.

If it leaks accross our borders, it would be an act by your personel to do so, since such code is contraban in the CRoT. And would be considered an act of attempted espionage, since we are reffering to software designed to spy on equipment and transmit details to your nation... Want to try it in an international court? You would undoubtedly lose... Since it is your own espionage software violating our equipment.

No international court exists to try this. And if it leaks into your country, it means you are stealing our data files. The only way you could get it without doing such is to be connected to our form of internet, and unless you are a DLE territory or protectorate state doing such is an act of espionage. In which case, we would be forced to deal with your nation using military means.

::taps foot::

A protocol is a system or standard by which data is transmitted. A Service is something that can use differing protocols to provide necessary information.

<snip of unimportant information typed by someone who just doesn't get it>

Main Entry: pro·to·col
Pronunciation: 'prO-t&-"kol, -"kOl, -"käl, -k&l
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle French prothocole, from Medieval Latin protocollum, from Late Greek prOtokollon first sheet of a papyrus roll bearing data of manufacture, from Greek prOt- prot- + kollan to glue together, from kolla glue; perhaps akin to Middle Dutch helen to glue
1 : an original draft, minute, or record of a document or transaction
2 a : a preliminary memorandum often formulated and signed by diplomatic negotiators as a basis for a final convention or treaty b : the records or minutes of a diplomatic conference or congress that show officially the agreements arrived at by the negotiators
3 a : a code prescribing strict adherence to correct etiquette and precedence (as in diplomatic exchange and in the military services) b : a set of conventions governing the treatment and especially the formatting of data in an electronic communications system
4 : a detailed plan of a scientific or medical experiment, treatment, or procedure

If you are unsure of how someone is using a word, feel free to ask them instead of wasting everyone's time with an explanation of something that shows you have no clue what they were saying. I bolded the context by which I was speaking.

If you are unsure of how someone is using a word, feel free to ask them instead of wasting everyone's time with an explanation of something that shows you have no clue what they were saying. I bolded the context by which I was speaking.

Once again, we are reffering to INTERNET (as already mentioned)... Since we are there, the PROPER definition and usage is the definition of PROTOCOL defined in the realm of Computer Science:

Protocol:A standard procedure for regulating data transmission between computers.

Protocols are TCP/IP (Transfer Connection Protocol/Internet Protocol), UDP (User Datagram Protocol), HTTP (Hyper Text Transfer Protocol), FTP (File Transfer Protocol), SMTP (Simple Mail Transfer Protocol), SNMP (Simple Network Managment Protocol), etc... IE A procedure by which two computers communicate with one another over an existing frame. Obviously this was derived in Computer Science from the principle of "etiquette".

However, DNS is not a protocol. DNS is a service... Services use protocols... In the standards, for example, DNS serverrs and clients use the UDP protocol to locate other resources within the network.

Regardless of the system you use, as long as your using a network of extensive size, you are relying on nodes or equivalents structures, UDP/TCP or equivalent protocols, and services to allow clients to locate other objects on the network.

Regardless of the system you are using it is more than possible for you to track all the information you need to from the server/nodes without reliance on "spyware" on clients. Thus your "need" for spyware, is an invalid claim. From a technological point of view.

And since you rely on "spyware" to "track" your own systems, it is obvious that you are technologically inferior to the CRoT when it comes to network infrastructure. Therefore your claims of "spyware" espionage are laughable. As we would have no interest in your primitive systems. We can track any informations transfers accross our networks without "spyware" needed to be loaded on the machines trying to gather that information.

Once again, we are reffering to INTERNET (as already mentioned)... Since we are there, the PROPER definition and usage is the definition of PROTOCOL defined in the realm of Computer Science:

Protocol:A standard procedure for regulating data transmission between computers.

Protocols are TCP/IP (Transfer Connection Protocol/Internet Protocol), UDP (User Datagram Protocol), HTTP (Hyper Text Transfer Protocol), FTP (File Transfer Protocol), SMTP (Simple Mail Transfer Protocol), SNMP (Simple Network Managment Protocol), etc... IE A procedure by which two computers communicate with one another over an existing frame. Obviously this was derived in Computer Science from the principle of "etiquette".

However, DNS is not a protocol. DNS is a service... Services use protocols... In the standards, for example, DNS serverrs and clients use the UDP protocol to locate other resources within the network.

DNS is a technological protocol followed by many Earth nations with relation to the internet. And no matter how many times I have said it, you have missed it. DLE uses a system that is ]like the internet. Missing that key word is what made you assume that your knowledge of Earth systems applies, when it clearly doesn't.

Regardless of the system you use, as long as your using a network of extensive size, you are relying on nodes or equivalents structures, UDP/TCP or equivalent protocols, and services to allow clients to locate other objects on the network.

DLE Identification codes, which come with locational codes. The planets and orbital platforms are pretty easy to deal with, as we know where they are all of the time and can simply aim the signal straight at them. Individual ships and fleets have to bounce the signal off of one of our worlds to contact others. And, as I have said, each ship, each orbital platform, and each planet is separate from the rest due to the sheer size of space. Even if we lose the entire network on Terran Orbital Platform 3, the rest remain unaffected. The locations they come from and are routed to are handled by AIs on the planets and orbital platforms and regular computers on the ships.

Regardless of the system you are using it is more than possible for you to track all the information you need to from the server/nodes without reliance on "spyware" on clients. Thus your "need" for spyware, is an invalid claim. From a technological point of view.

Which is where you are making your greatest mistake. You are viewing it as just technology on the shortrange. I want to see you invent a DNS system that can send a signal 2738.4 lightyears with only a 10 minute delay.

And since you rely on "spyware" to "track" your own systems, it is obvious that you are technologically inferior to the CRoT when it comes to network infrastructure. Therefore your claims of "spyware" espionage are laughable. As we would have no interest in your primitive systems. We can track any informations transfers accross our networks without "spyware" needed to be loaded on the machines trying to gather that information.

Your computers are all on the same planet. Keep in mind we're spread across a very large portion of the galaxy for communications. Until you have to deal with distances measuring farther than the light from the first bulb lit by humans can travel in one thousand years, don't speak to us about technological inferiority. Hell, you have to deal with a communications delay from Mars using such systems, let alone how massive it would be with the distances we deal with on a daily basis.

Until you get it through your head that the problem is distance and not technology, you will continue to make statements about our technological capacity that have no basis in fact. You will continue to hold an untrue opinion that your systems are more advanced, and continue to hold yourselves with a regard you only think you earned through a lack of knowledge.

When you manage to get a signal to the DLE homeworld in less than a few seconds using your systems and still being able to track it, let us know. Then maybe you'll have something to brag about that is based on fact.

OOC: Remember, Sarkarasetan ego comming into play.

DNS is a technological protocol followed by many Earth nations with relation to the internet. And no matter how many times I have said it, you have missed it. DLE uses a system that is ]like the internet. Missing that key word is what made you assume that your knowledge of Earth systems applies, when it clearly doesn't.

DNS is a service, not a protocol. Such structure applies to any "web based" system. DNS is merely the nomlecature applied to a specific service for use in locating resources.


Which is where you are making your greatest mistake. You are viewing it as just technology on the shortrange. I want to see you invent a DNS system that can send a signal 2738.4 lightyears with only a 10 minute delay.

DNS doesn't "relay" anything in particular. It is merely the authority that tells the system where to go. Not get it there in the first place. That is handled by what in computer science would be a "node" After querry with DNS (or its equivalent) the client knows HOW TO get to the source. However, it still must use this "Service" to determine the location of the source. Hense, it is a theoretical "Central" authority which can be used for monitoring traffic.



Your computers are all on the same planet. Keep in mind we're spread across a very large portion of the galaxy for communications. Until you have to deal with distances measuring farther than the light from the first bulb lit by humans can travel in one thousand years, don't speak to us about technological inferiority. Hell, you have to deal with a communications delay from Mars using such systems, let alone how massive it would be with the distances we deal with on a daily basis.

My computers are on several planets, and on ships as well. However, it is still a "network" of systems. Composed of "sub-networks", "intra-networks" and "inter-networks".... Only differentiated by scales. For example. A particular Ship possesses its own INTRA-network. Within this are "sub-networks" for various divisions. And it in turn is connected to a massive INTER-networking of INTRA-networks. Your description is of no difference. Nomlecature and technologies may differ. But the base infra-structure relies on the same basic large scale "web" infrastructure. Regardless, components in the network rely on services to determine who they need to talk to. By using these "nodes" for tracking, we remove any need what-so-ever, and all control what-so-ever of the client being able to "mask" their activities. Since the client itself has no control over the infrastructure.


Until you get it through your head that the problem is distance and not technology, you will continue to make statements about our technological capacity that have no basis in fact. You will continue to hold an untrue opinion that your systems are more advanced, and continue to hold yourselves with a regard you only think you earned through a lack of knowledge.

Distance does not matter. And it is not the technology, but rather the inability to use the existing technology to its fullest.


When you manage to get a signal to the DLE homeworld in less than a few seconds using your systems and still being able to track it, let us know. Then maybe you'll have something to brag about that is based on fact.

Signal speed it based upon medium. Since we use our Kraskinov based technologies for long range communication. I could get a signal to DLE from the next galaxy over in a hand full of seconds.

Once again, shift your tracking to server/node side, rather than client based systems. It is more secure, more effective, with no way to bypass.

In any case, the idea of relying on Client side tracking software, is archaic.