NationStates Jolt Archive

I was looking over the resolutions pasted, and it seems now that more resolutions are focued more on social & domestic issues. How can the U.N. legislate to countries on who has the right to be identified as a married couple or not? If my nation feels that gay marraige should be banned, then it shall be so, but should not cancel my relation to the United Nations. The U.N. should exist for Foreign Policy issues, not domestic issues. Even when it comes down to Child Pornography, as disgusting as it is, it shall be the government's decision to make it illegal. nearly 60% of the U.N. Resolutions deal with Social or domestic issues.

By passing a resolution involving domestic issues, it enables the U.N. to command the citizens of a nation to "not do this" or "not to that" because it is unmoral in the eyes of the majority of the world. This cannot be! Different views exist in different nations. Just as Iran differs from the United States. However the extremity of Iran's policies include distruction to others which is what makes them specifically wrong.

In resolution #81 which defines Marraige was won by a 11,904 to 7,473 margin. Lets point this out, while the majority of the vote is weighed upon passing the resolution, still 7,473 regions believe it to be wrong. And it what sense is it called wrong? It can only be considered morally wrong by the nations who voted no.

A new legislation in the U.N. should exclude all social resolutions! Or require Social/Domestic issues to be passed by a 2/3rds vote of the world.

All in All the U.N. cannot dictate what social issues are allowed or not allowed.

***This should probably be moved to either the United Nations or Gameplay forum. General has pretty much become a non-game oriented forum.

I sometimes wonder if a security council could be constructed for the UN, something to limit the power of the general assembley. Perhaps a form of population weighted voting, so that not only a majorty of the world's nations but a majority of the world's population is required to pass a resolution. But I will refrain from commenting further as I withdrew from the UN years ago and hae no intention of rejoining.

Personally, I can see from the opposite side of the issue where Ystaevae is coming from. If the UN passed a resolution banning things like abortion or gay marriage, it would nauseate me, and make me seriously consider leaving the UN. So, I agree that the UN shouldn't have jurisdiction over social or domestic issues.

And Squi is also correct that this belongs in the UN forum, but since I'm not a mod I can't move it.

And Squi is also correct that this belongs in the UN forum, but since I'm not a mod I can't move it.
I am, and can, and did.

Our view is that sapient beings all deserve certain rights and freedoms. Governments do not deserve rights or freedoms such as national sovereignty - they should only exist to safeguard/provide those rights. So if a government is failing in some aspect of this duty, and we are able to correct that through UN legislation, we are happy to do so.

And the U.N. reserves the rights that national government cannot have? But if they feel that gayrights and abortion are not considered "rights" but follow a process that the government feels in unmoral should they stand for it? It's not whether my government stands against it. It also covers everyone who is for it as well. If abortion was made illegal, would not that effect the governments who feel it should be legal? Who the public of their state feel it should be legal? So it comes down to what the people want, and the U.N. (consists of 20,000 some delegates) decide for trillions of people in nations whats legal? I dont think so.

Our view is that sapient beings all deserve certain rights and freedoms.

Who decides what certain rights are given? That could almost be tried as a religious case more the less than a bunch of moral hungry U.N. delegates.

Ystaevae is largely a Christian Conservative nation, but don't let that give you any ideas as to how we decide. Yes we do not want abortion, we banned it. Same goes with gay marraige, but Christian States do not want U.N. involvement due to the fact that they would have to conform to those resolutions that were established. Again, I dont want you to think that just because we are Christian Conservative this applies to just my Nation. Other issues exist with non-christian non-conservative states.

To take it on a liberal view, surely a Gay man would rather have his nation decide with a possible chance of saying "Yes" rather than the world saying "NO" when actually 20,000 votes are only casted. (pending U.N. bans gay marraige).

Let me not throw out the opposite side of things though, Since my nation has banned gay marraige, they have a chance to move elsewhere to another nation if they really want to get married.

Can the U.N. ban a nation for being communist? Wasnt the case for Russia.

Here's the punch line, I ban gay marraige, but I think its ok for other nations with different views (with support of the people) to allow it. I will not dictate whatt he other nation feels is moral or not moral. End of Story!

You can think whatever you want. Once you join the UN you check your national sovereignty at the door. The UN can do what it pleases. If that doesn't please you, then, well, don't let the door hit you on the way out.

Fass, i think you missed the point. People like me and you decide what goes on in the U.N. you make it sound like the U.N. consists of a small party of members that dictates a yes and no for everyone regardless of what a nation feels is moral or unmoral. I must object, the U.N. CANNOT do what it pleases. Do not forget, people can still vote, people can still leave. If they did what pleases them, why vote for issues? I also am not pleased with the disrespect given, if you have something to say show some respect, thank you.

Fass, i think you missed the point. People like me and you decide what goes on in the U.N. you make it sound like the U.N. consists of a small party of members that dictates a yes and no for everyone regardless of what a nation feels is moral or unmoral. I must object, the U.N. CANNOT do what it pleases. Do not forget, people can still vote, people can still leave. If they did what pleases them, why vote for issues? I also am not pleased with the disrespect given, if you have something to say show some respect, thank you.

The NSUN is nothing like the real life UN. Looking at your posts, you seem to think that. The NSUN can do whatever it wants. There is no such thing as "national sovereignty" in it - just look at the resolutions.

Read the FAQS. Read the stickies. You are making yourself out like a "n00b", i.e. a newbie who hasn't read them, and until you have done that and understood that the NSUN can do whatever it likes, you will get no respect from representatives of Fass, since you obviously didn't have the respect to read the rules before you started this pointless thread.

Also, I see that you are not a UN member. Thus what you have to say about the NSUN is of no consequence to Fass. The day that you choose to join the NSUN your bitching will deserve to be heard, but not before that.

Also, all those things you ban, but the NSUN allows? If you join the UN you will no longer be banning them. There is no non-compliance in the NSUN.

Can the U.N. ban a nation for being communist? Wasnt the case for Russia.

The NSUN could if it wanted to (i.e. ban communism). And there is no such place as the Russia you speak of in the NSUN universe.

Nations States simulates a nation, while its not even near accurate, give me a break. IF this was a real nation, I would say the same thing.

If you believe it to be something more simple, then so be it. But if what you say is true, why even consider social issues? HELL, WHY EVEN CONSIDER MORAL ISSUES? GEEZE, WHY EVEN HAVE RESOLUTIONS? I could have swore that the purpose of the U.N. posts was to discuss U.N. matters that effect my and your nation.

But I'm going to say it again,
Do you vote in NSUN? Sure you do (pending your in U.N.). Do I vote in NSUN? Yes I do. By voting no, i have the chance to change the issue, real or not. If it did whatever it wanted, then why vote? Again you miss the issue, more less the point of this topic. My tip for you Fuss, re-read the topic and work your way down. Dont post unless you have something better to say instead of arguing the integrity of this topic.

I quit the U.N. after they passed the Abortion laws.

p.s. Fass, swearing doesnt exactly give you a good backround as to who you are. It makes you look immature and kiddish. Take my advice, represent yourself better.

p.s. Fass, swearing doesnt exactly give you a good backround as to who you are. It makes you look immature and kiddish. Take my advice, represent yourself better.

Take my advice - read the NSUN faq. By involving the real world UN and real world nations, you seem to either not have read it or not have understood it. It makes you look nOObish.

Also, you cannot vote in the NSUN, since you are not a member of it. Also I resent the claim that I swore - I haven't sworn anywhere. "Bitch" used as a verb is not swearing.

Oh, I give up. I'm reporting the thread to the mods. They will be able to explain to you that the NSUN is in no way like the real life UN and that it can do whatever it wants, since you obviously cannot seem to be bothered to understand what the NSUN is.

How was I implying that NSUN is anything like real life? I'm only merely stating an example. Take free speech as you please.

Don't bother reporting it, Fass. I've been following the thread. I have one word of advice for both of you. Chill.

Ystaevae, your comments have been shrill and absolute in a place where neither is called for. Fass, your comments have been boorish and unpleasant in a place where neither is called for.
Here's the punch line, I ban gay marraigeYou can make that call in non-UN nations. Gay marriage is permitted in all UN nations, regardless of national desire or previously existing laws.
The NSUN could if it wanted to (i.e. ban communism). Actually, no. That's one of the few things Max insisted on - the freedom to choose your own form of government. It's in the FAQ or one of the stickies somewhere, and reiterated in Article One of Rights and Duties of UN States.

Ystaevae, Fass is right. The UN decides what the UN wants to do with itself. If that means passing moral legislation, they can. Fass, Ystaevae is right. If enough UN members convince the remainder to stay out of moral legislation, that too is their choice.

Both of you have valid opinions. Neither of you has a monopoly on the truth. And especially, both of you need to work on how you present those opinions, as you are likely to have further conflicts if you insist on absolute opinions.

~ Frisbeeteria ~
NationStates Forum Moderator

Fass, i think you missed the point. People like me and you decide what goes on in the U.N. you make it sound like the U.N. consists of a small party of members that dictates a yes and no for everyone regardless of what a nation feels is moral or unmoral. I must object, the U.N. CANNOT do what it pleases. Do not forget, people can still vote, people can still leave. If they did what pleases them, why vote for issues?
by the UN he mean "the majority of the UN". that majority is for increasing rights in the social issue. that majority want to legalize enthuzia, prostitution, gay rights and aborations.
while they still majority, they can do what they please.
they aren't small party they are more than 1/3 of the UN. the opposite are less. this is enough for their resolutions to pass.
clear enough?

I clearly understand both points of the issue, I was merely looking for opinions of both sides of the table, and both you gentlemen have provided what I was looking for, thank you for opinions. =)

I was looking over the resolutions pasted, and it seems now that more resolutions are focued more on social & domestic issues. How can the U.N. legislate to countries on who has the right to be identified as a married couple or not? If my nation feels that gay marraige should be banned, then it shall be so, but should not cancel my relation to the United Nations. The U.N. should exist for Foreign Policy issues, not domestic issues. Even when it comes down to Child Pornography, as disgusting as it is, it shall be the government's decision to make it illegal. nearly 60% of the U.N. Resolutions deal with Social or domestic issues.

By passing a resolution involving domestic issues, it enables the U.N. to command the citizens of a nation to "not do this" or "not to that" because it is unmoral in the eyes of the majority of the world. This cannot be! Different views exist in different nations. Just as Iran differs from the United States. However the extremity of Iran's policies include distruction to others which is what makes them specifically wrong.

In resolution #81 which defines Marraige was won by a 11,904 to 7,473 margin. Lets point this out, while the majority of the vote is weighed upon passing the resolution, still 7,473 regions believe it to be wrong. And it what sense is it called wrong? It can only be considered morally wrong by the nations who voted no.

A new legislation in the U.N. should exclude all social resolutions! Or require Social/Domestic issues to be passed by a 2/3rds vote of the world.

All in All the U.N. cannot dictate what social issues are allowed or not allowed.


Didn't read the FAQ, did we?

Vastiva will be shipping - at no charge - a full freighterload of McGuffey Readers to your nation. We will also be willing to accept additional orders for other educational materials.

We feel your pain.

And the U.N. reserves the rights that national government cannot have? But if they feel that gayrights and abortion are not considered "rights" but follow a process that the government feels in unmoral should they stand for it? It's not whether my government stands against it. It also covers everyone who is for it as well. If abortion was made illegal, would not that effect the governments who feel it should be legal? Who the public of their state feel it should be legal? So it comes down to what the people want, and the U.N. (consists of 20,000 some delegates) decide for trillions of people in nations whats legal? I dont think so.

The UN thinks so. So does the FAQ. Let me quote it for you.


The UN is your chance to mold the rest of the world to your vision, by voting for resolutions you like and scuttling the rest. However, it's a double-edged sword, because your nation will also be affected by any resolutions that pass. (You can't just obey the resolutions you like and ignore the rest, like real nations do.)

...which means "gay marriage" is legal in Ystaevae, as is abortion, and there's not thing one you can do about it.



Who decides what certain rights are given? That could almost be tried as a religious case more the less than a bunch of moral hungry U.N. delegates.

You joined the UN voluntarily, you accepted it's rules. Deal with it - consequences of actions.



Ystaevae is largely a Christian Conservative nation, but don't let that give you any ideas as to how we decide. Yes we do not want abortion, we banned it. Same goes with gay marraige,

Sorry, acceptance of UN Resolutions is not voluntary, it is compulsory. You don't have a choice in the matter.



but Christian States do not want U.N. involvement due to the fact that they would have to conform to those resolutions that were established.

Then leave the UN.



Again, I dont want you to think that just because we are Christian Conservative this applies to just my Nation. Other issues exist with non-christian non-conservative states.

And?



To take it on a liberal view, surely a Gay man would rather have his nation decide with a possible chance of saying "Yes" rather than the world saying "NO" when actually 20,000 votes are only casted. (pending U.N. bans gay marraige).

It's already been decided.



Let me not throw out the opposite side of things though, Since my nation has banned gay marraige,

I repeat "Acceptance of UN Resolutions is compulsory, not voluntary". Just for you, we'll not give our normal evil cackles.



they have a chance to move elsewhere to another nation if they really want to get married.

They don't have to. You have legal gay marriages as per Resolution #81. Deal with it or leave the UN.



Can the U.N. ban a nation for being communist? Wasnt the case for Russia.

Here's the punch line, I ban gay marraige, but I think its ok for other nations with different views (with support of the people) to allow it. I will not dictate whatt he other nation feels is moral or not moral. End of Story!

Addendum to story - you're in compliance, like it or not. Next time, read the rules before you click the button. As it is, your choices are "Accept, leave, or adapt".

Vastiva will be shipping - at no charge - a full freighterload of McGuffey Readers to your nation. We will also be willing to accept additional orders for other educational materials.
You might want to hang on to those for a bit.
Then leave the UN.

They don't have to. You have legal gay marriages as per Resolution #81. Deal with it or leave the UN.

As it is, your choices are "Accept, leave, or adapt".
Ever consider following your own advice about reading?
I quit the U.N. after they passed the Abortion laws.
Vastiva, I'm sure I'm not the only one who gets tired of these diatribes about "reading the FAQ" I find it particularly tiring when half the thread is devoted to a battle about it, up to and including an official Moderator ruling to separate the combatants, then come along the next morning only to find that fresh fuel has been added to the fire for no reason.

You wonder why more folks don't debate in the UN forum? It's this sort of bullying. The fact that you're using your nation in a semi-IC manner doesn't excuse the fact that these are personal attacks. "Read the FAQ" can only be directed at the player, not the nation.

Starting now, I want to see these attacks end. Humorous prodding is one thing, belittling attacks are something entirely different. N00bish behavior is no excuse for anti-n00b flaming, no matter what the tradition of the UN forums. They will be treated as ordinary flaming, and official warnings and forumbans may follow as needed.

I'd also like to make it explicitly clear that this "suggestion" applies to everyone, not just the people in this thread. I'll cross-link this as necessary over the next little bit if needed. Understood?

~ Frisbeeteria ~
NationStates Moderator Team