NationStates Jolt Archive

Early this morning, I submitted a proposal to the UN for delegate consideration. Entitled "Universal Library Coalition," it would act to provide a replacement for the recently repealed Global Library resolution. I've been working on editing and improving the proposal for probably a week now, with a significant amount of help from posters on this forum. (thanks!)

Today (Wednesday) the proposal can be found on Page 12, or at the top of the following page:
http://www.nationstates.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/58688/page=UN_proposal/start=26

It reads as follows:
Universal Library Coalition
A resolution to reduce income inequality and increase basic welfare.
Category: Social Justice
Strength: Mild
Proposed by: Mousebumples
Description: NOTING previous resolutions passed by the United Nations for the purpose of furthering education worldwide (#28, #54, #79)

UNDERSTANDING the limitations of the previous Global Library resolution (#86), which was repealed,

THE UNITED NATIONS -
CALLS for the formation of a Universal Library Coalition (ULC). The Universal Library provided by the ULC will be internet-based and may archive any published form of the written word including, but not limited to, fiction and nonfiction books, constitutions and laws from around the world, newspapers, magazines, and professional journals.

ALLOWS FOR SUBMISSIONS from individual member nations on the condition that permission has been granted by the publisher and/or author to archive the work within the Universal Library. Authors of archived material within the Universal Library will receive an annual subscription payment from the ULC in return for allowing wide access to their work. Any submissions that violate copyright laws will be rejected.

PLACES the central server for the Universal Library within the United Nations Headquarters. The library will be indexed at minimum by author, title, nation of origin, and keywords. Submissions will be further indexed by category, such as biography, or periodical. The category will be determined by the works’ publisher.

ALLOWS FOR NATIONAL PARTICIPATION by giving each UN member nation and non-UN member nation the opportunity to participate and be a member of the ULC. If a nation opts to participate, they will pay an annual fee to have the Universal Library made available to all internet portals within that nation. Member nations may also choose to provide content filters for their citizenry. Each participating nation may build a physical library within their borders, at their own cost. Each participating nation will maintain a backup of their national data archived within the ULC.

CREATES a ULC Executive Committee (ULCEC) consisting of fifteen (15) individuals selected from ULC member nations that are elected every three (3) years. With a two-thirds (2/3) majority vote, they will set annual fees that nations pay to gain access to the global library. Additionally, the ULCEC will consult with other ULC nations to manage any issues related to the maintenance and operation of the ULC infrastructure that arise.

PROMOTES cultural awareness by permitting the creation of the Universal Literary Exchange Network (ULEN). Any ULC member nation may designate a section of a physical library or museum to house a rotating collection of literary works provided by other ULC nations. These works will be provided voluntarily to the ULEN for no more than twenty-four (24) months at a time. The ULCEC will arrange for works to be moved from one ULC member nation to another. There will be no additional charge to any ULC member nation who wishes to become involved in the ULEN, presuming that those who request foreign works are willing to lend out works of their own.

DETAILS that the ULC and ULEN will be incorporated as non-profit organizations. Additionally, the ULC and ULEN will be entirely funded by participating nations, regardless of their membership in the United Nations. Thus, no taxing authority shall be created by the passage of this resolution. Non-members are free to form their own libraries within their own borders and are in no way restricted from sharing information with other nations around the world.

Voting Ends: Thu Mar 3 2005

I'd appreciate it if the delegates that frequent this board would consider approving the proposal. Of course, if you have any questions or need clarification at all, post and I'd be happy to respond as best I can.

The previous thread can be found here (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=398408), if anyone's interested in reading through that.

Thanks for your consideration. :D
~Lizzy Hall~

Approved.

I have a small complaint about this:

[QUOTE=Mousebumples]Authors of archived material within the Universal Library will receive an annual subscription payment from the ULC in return for allowing wide access to their work.[QUOTE]

The author is not always due payment. If their work appears in a newspaper, and that newspaper is archived, the payment should usually go to the publisher of that newspaper, in the same way that when you buy a newspaper you pay the publisher, not each journalist.

Your text also fails to account for works to which the authors do not have exclusive rights - it would be inappropriate, for instance, to pay politicians in order to archive legislation which they originally wrote.

The author is not always due payment. If their work appears in a newspaper, and that newspaper is archived, the payment should usually go to the publisher of that newspaper, in the same way that when you buy a newspaper you pay the publisher, not each journalist.

Your text also fails to account for works to which the authors do not have exclusive rights - it would be inappropriate, for instance, to pay politicians in order to archive legislation which they originally wrote.
You make a good point, and one that I *really* wish would have been brought up before I submitted the proposal this morning. That subscription fee was the last thing added in before I submitted the proposal, so it's only been a part of the writeup for maybe 3 or 4 days.

Should it not reach quorum and/or be passed this time around, that's definitely something I'll consider before submitting again.

Thanks for the feedback/comments. :)

Rule 1: No proposal is perfect.

Rule 2: If you have a perfect proposal, please see Rule 1.

----------

The thorny issue with authorship could be applied in a more general sense, I suppose, in that a newspaper is "authored" by the publication company, and that government documents are "authored" by various governments (and usually made available for free). Of course, this opens the resolution up to misuse, but then, people have always been free to redefine words to suit their purposes before, and I don't see how this could be completely sealed without losing massive levels of support - it would become unwieldy. A classic "Rule 1" in progress, but I think the resolution's strong.

A classic "Rule 1" in progress, but I think the resolution's strong.
Thanks for the support, Krioval. I was pondering, personally, if it was worth abandoning the TG effort to attempt a rewrite over this. I didn't think so myself, but I wanted other opinions. Thanks for sharing yours.

Anyhow, I'm not sure where Nargopia wandered off to with his list of delegates to contact and a TG template to send. Still, here's what I've been working on ...

Dear Esteemed Delegate,
A proposal has recently been submitted to the United Nations for your consideration. Entitled "Universal Library Coalition," it would act to provide a replacement for the recently repealed Global Library resolution.

I'd appreciate it if you would consider approving this proposal. Today (Wednesday) you can find it on the bottom of Page 6, or at the top of the following page: http://www.nationstates.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/58688/page=UN_proposal/start=26

Otherwise, as always, you can search by name for this particular proposal at the bottom of each page listing off the proposals. This proposal is open for approval through Thursday, so I'd appreciate it if you would consider approving this one at your earliest convenience.

Should you have any questions, or need any further clarification, please don't hesitate to contact me.

Thank you very much for your consideration,
Your signature here

Obviously, feel free to pull out the daily-changing references (bolded and in color), if you so choose. I just know that I prefer to receive specific directions to a proposal since I sometimes have problems finding them by searching for some odd reason. Anyhow, I'll try to keep those as up-to-date as I can by editing this post semi-occasionally. :)

I'm not sure how to go about dividing up the list of delegates, or choosing which ones to contact. I've TG'd maybe 50 or so thus far that have been supportive of my proposals in the past, and I think I'll just start TG'ing delegates that have voted on the current UN resolution next. Thoughts? I have a meeting soonish, and I won't be back until later tonight - not for a few hours at least. If anyone else has a plan/list of delegates to contact, I'll gladly start checking names off of that list - perhaps including those that I've already TG'd. (I did save a list of their names :))

Thanks to anyone who can and will help out with the TG campaign! :D
~Lizzy~

Sorry about the absence, Mousebumples. Here's the list of delegates to TG. I think your template's fine, no need to alter anything.

NARGOPIA
High Spiritus, JS Nijmegen, Gaiah, NewTexas, Asshelmetta, Metal Poets, Tariol, Monadnock, Yelda, Acada Demada, Laueria, Grumioland, Shanagolia, The Black New World, Sulon, Coprinsteland, Dahlk, Al-Zar, The Cariebbean, DragonSpeartopia, Nomikia, Tzimiscie, Domintora, The Belima, WZ Forums, 1 Infinite Loop, Ataraxics, The Derrak Quadrant, Dominicalius, Dafidutopia, Jake 4, Knuckles Promised Land, Kubersland, Lotharisia, Kadield, Jibba-Jabbia, Fenor, Shenanigoat Junction, Novus Terra Reborn, Bohemia and Moravia II, Sinns right hand, Lichto, Funky Celtic Kleptos, Baribeau, Shadow GOYakitaN, Nunograd, Dolich, Annenburg, Rekistan, Hidlberg, La Commune Quebecoise, GizzmoAsus, Magiqa, Great Kienholz, Lamoni, Scattered Islands, Oscarina, Catt-man-do, Northern Nukeland, G_Wiz, JayRoddia, Nielston, Fees Maudites, Kyndcat, The Red Lair, Grand Teton, Master Tom, Tanthe, La Tropicana, Hockey Fandom, Bulgarian Legion, Hkdl, Crazy irish ppl, SlowRoll, TheBongos, Ashualiat, Manfredonia, Galaxy Bright Star, Javelindon, Zapvilla, NaMonde, Unrestrained Anarchy, Killtron, Dem Deadbeats, Sam99978, Racoonesia, Sputnikov, Crydonia, Looplyness, Great Britain---, Spartanious, Juxtaposed Borderlines, Cachay, Aquatnis, Dark nipple people, Itsdawhitebunny, Ellensborough, Rhody, Beach Bay, Knowledge of Dragons, Markodonia, Alexein, Fastnet, Teews, N00t, Steven Kyle, America---, Arro Gance, Carlos Santos, Womblinia, Spartans mark2, Punk-ass Ninjas, Doodania, Omairia, Alomogordo, Constellia, Nenuial, Signamarcheix, Varasa, Conservative Haters, Dizziness, Oil Trough, Bedouin States, Radona, Thgin, Molnervia, The Borg Subconscious, Daltwood 2, LouFerringoland, Dutch Berhampore, The Talisman, Bijanian Utopia, Aston, North-Baltia, Kemdoph, Tomaa, Bill-kalamata 999, Adam Island, Amaris Ursana, Memorial Park, The Hollow Eye,


MOUSEBUMPLES
DaJonesians, TheBeave, The Mighty Pump, Borgoa, Pyro Kittens, Purpleation, Freedmark, Ceskeland, Cunnyfuntbooboo, Tierra del Queso, Buaness, Transplanetary Peoples, Cockeysville, Graceofseppuku, Innerfilth, David Schnell, The Marine Infantry, Luna Amore, UpsilonUC, Erroneous Errol Island, Visochka, The 2nd Foundation, Dyvan, Kinkle, Norig Ellison, Crvena Zvezda, Communist Socialists M, Catanacia, Phelton, Pottervillia, Ponthier, Dowiniowe, Pannville, Sayt, Nattyworld, Ueberwald, Cobranger, Sabbe, Erehwon Forest, Memorand, Phet, Dangertk, Where was I, Moonriders, Onanistaquerulo, Grozhny, Extreme Darwinists, Mycos, Very Black People, Sirap, Josha Land, Named Meats, Wallumetta, Stubert, Manion, Chinandega, Lower Saltzburg, Nevscrow, Neo-Pangaea, UndergroundRacing, HMS Nottingham, The kevinngzh, Acids Kingdom, Beedies, Pasquazzo, Egomanics, Fyronica, Stylias, Easternmost Wasteland, Ozhland, Kentmire, Yellow Lawns, New Akana, Noonstien, North Central America, Encephelon, Suomen Turku, Metal Poets, Lonestonia, Etonians, El Chupacobra, Kaytheer, New Libertalia, Imperialer Voelkerbund, The Gimerlands, Teutonia Magna, South Jersey Shore, Trois Pont, Therenbough, Zyphyr, BonzoDooDa, No power structure, Bongbuddastan, AKAZA CORP, Haggis Hurlers, Stromland, Timidia, Shamalea, Armstrongiania, Necrogeddon, LordRisely, Calculators, Beaumerica, Easy-Going, Crookewit, Flame From Hell, Pampooria, Dogcattle, Haborym, Dersturm, Westfield Fordes, GuineaPigsRock,
United Necromancers, Saint Les, Binzer, Dominicanian Empire, Emmental, , Nightrunner, Lost Valley, Ripped Pants, Children of the Gael, Origins Returned, Marsovia, Foglorn, Quirn, Greater Kamigawa, Flibbles, Volvonce, Sweetfloss, The Caucasian Invasion, Misfitonia, Purple elephant monkey, The Bleeding Cross, Werdcrime, Nauarchonesia, Driskoland, Vampirist, The Northern Highland, YTMND, Doomynation, Lenno Bird, The Great Moo Foo, Seamus McCaffrey, Stephanieville, Paraglade, Eisenland, Chief Yellowtooth, Yopp, Bloodsbane, Arol, Tagusland, Lighfingerers, A Celtic Constituency, Scypha, Morganix, Zubinland, BenDaFatMan, Brahumptia, No Breaks, PintoBerg0, Zachnia, Aaaronius, Arwenistan, TheUnion, Rosthern, Independant Fireflies, Derekbooth, Rianon, Trielli, The disillusioned many, Coprinsteland, Genetic Superhumans, Klaun, Eutaw, The PHRF Pacific, Nisk, Navacerrada, Repechagia, PORTVALIA, Zomnkeria, Pansophia, Naravostia, Mmrkuudnia, The Greek Asteroids,


KRIOVAL
Socializts, The Sneezed, Stocklound, UberPatLand, Rwiggum, Sulej, The Roos Union, MountainSun, Riegab, Hippopotami-Under-Lyme, Bad Lunch Meat, Barazov, Peaonusahl, Shivan_rathi, Birds of a Feather, RachelLStaton, Luther Dorms, Toast Coverings, Shanozelhops, Mynacon, The Gregg, Shaemal, Sunset Town, Mommy D, East Lithuania, Libertarianada, Epilecutt, Los cielos, Esscose, The Empire of Will, Anasynth, The Fenian Rite, Vaultrainia, Ald Rhun, Kiriyama Lookalikes, Allymand, Windleheim, Sellac, White power world wide, JujenDanq, Vlaske, King Charles I, Goa Gubbar, Ulysees, San Salos, Phatfoo, Mulleto, Beer-drinking, Iznogoud, Psychorats, Drewzeya, Mi Scusi, Sulamar, , Anti-Sneddon, El Cuhnto, Jacobs Cream Crackers, Planet Yakadoo, Pure Unrestrained Evil, The Burning Sword, Das Buut, Pantocratoria, Shandus, Mazinopolis, Femalmen, Nova Gothia, The Kingsland, Shaloch, Samsil, Norvikeland, , Hargrimmia, Hun-Topia, Culex, Squibcakes, Folly and Goodwill, Pinconning, The 4rth Reich, Oeillade, Somewhere 999, South Shields, Krankor, Moritoriad, Witsle, Englobad, A Tortured Mind, P-40Aces, Kreisau, New Happyworld Land, The Bankers Union, Seocc, Shrimpy-UB, Nendeln, Boston, Crimson Bloodonia, Anglophones, The Great Mount, Joshburia, Luy, Squirrelmania, Dragunovia, The tokai, Ste Land, Melloway, Neo Cobra, Puppet Country, Acarob, Boner the Stiff, Ckech, Goofballzia, Asselia, Gorthan, Lesser Jersey, Sheepia, Melmond, Wagners band, Stansfeldland, , Tomathon, Jynxing Mormons, TesticularFortitude, Dunn Vol, Lancaster of Wessex, Rinji, Liberal Fascism, Lakin-Kohn, Johnny R Cash, Loprestia, Cheerio, Belaren, Robo Sheep, British Cannon Islands, Mithrexia, Skiapper, Hierguard, Nova Capitalia, Aakron, Toddownya, The Domain of Curly, Barkentine, The North Falklands, Romania-, Outlawed Pandas, Big Hat, Outlaw Conformity, FUA, Optima Justitia, Crypto Fascist Monks, Legnarennat, Milantia, Tyber, Mobile Suits, JFriends, Dodo Lovers, Archduke Lucian, Oisaca, Tinis, Acroppoli, GalSpan, Cherry Ridge

The author is not always due payment. If their work appears in a newspaper, and that newspaper is archived, the payment should usually go to the publisher of that newspaper, in the same way that when you buy a newspaper you pay the publisher, not each journalist.

Duh a journalist is not an author, when under contract to a newspaper they are a reporter. Their editor is not an author either, but neither is the owner of the newspaper. Controllers of the press are usually amicable to free access through libraries, shortly after publication as a good will gesture and to compete for various reasons in any archive.

Your text also fails to account for works to which the authors do not have exclusive rights - it would be inappropriate, for instance, to pay politicians in order to archive legislation which they originally wrote.

Politicians ideas are completely public property otherwise any opposition would have to pay to quote anything they said in their arguments.

Everyone would have to pay politicians if it could be proved that they wrote legislation entirely.

Society suspends politicians intellectual property rights for the time they choose to serve the public, dictators would be expected to follow at least some of the traits shown by any contollers of the press.

We say keep refining this resolution for the benefit of everykind, with our full support.

Some of the delegates that I've already TG'd are on these lists. Here's a quick reference, I *think* covering all of them that I've already gotten. I might have forgotten to record a couple, but I think I have most of them down. :)

(And, sorry, Krioval, but all of the ones I've contacted seem to be on Nargopia's list!)

NARGOPIA
JS Nijmegen, NewTexas, Yelda, Acada La Commune Quebecoise, Master Tom

I'll try to get my share done later tonight. I don't have classes until later tomorrow afternoon, so I should be able to stay up late and get them all done, and *still* get plenty of sleep! :)

Esteemed <nationstate name>, Delegate for <region name>:

A proposal has recently been submitted to the United Nations for your consideration. Entitled "Universal Library Coalition," it would act to provide a replacement for the recently repealed Global Library resolution. This proposal corrects the flaws of the original and provides for an attainable library for all nationstates without the science fiction.

I'd appreciate it if you would consider this proposal. Today (Monday) you can find it on Page 16, or at the top of the following page: http://www.nationstates.net/cgi-bin...oposal/start=76

Otherwise, as always, you can search by name for this particular proposal at the bottom of each page listing off the proposals. This proposal is open for approval through Thursday, so I'd appreciate it if you would consider approving this one at your earliest convenience.

Should you have any questions, or need any further clarification, please don't hesitate to contact me. The UN Forum discussion of this resolution can be found at http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=401390

Thank you very much for your consideration,
<Your signature here>

p.s.: <comment on the nation's flag, motto, size, animal, currency>

Don't underestimate the value of a personalized greeting, or the friendly comment at the end. It takes only seconds to see what someone has accomplished and comment on it, and it makes the TG process much more fun.

I heartily agree, and appreciate the customized greeting. I've endorsed this proposal, and hope to see it passed in the future.

Thank you for brining this to Neo Cobra's attention, [...] And yes, we are very proud of out nation's symbol. :)

I have added my support of this repeal. Feel free to contact me for ANY repeals.

And, you are correct......Faith alone, Grace alone, Christ alone

This is basic Dale Carnegie stuff. The nicest thing you can do to someone is say their name. The easiest way to break the ice with someone is to compliment them on something they're proud of.

I'm not advocating you lie, or indulge in syncophantic flattery. One thing you'll find in the telegram campaign is the amazing variety and originality of other players in this game. Kingsland put some thought into his latin motto. Cobra put effort into his flag. Luy had fun creating his name. Of course they were more open to my previous proposals when I gave credit where credit was due.

True story. I've found that TG campaigns are much more successful when the letters are personalized with a custom postscript. Plus it also feels nice seeing "15 new telegrams" every time you log in for a few days after the campaign.

Just a quick note - I've updated the above telegram (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=8325087&postcount=6) with current links and page numbers, for those who are going into the detail. (or who want to check on the proposal!)

At the moment, we've got 31 of the 147 approvals. 21% - so far so good!

I won't be able to get to this for a few hours. Sorry, but work and all has to come first. I'll try to take five-minute "TG breaks" as I go through the day. Is the above list final?

I won't be able to get to this for a few hours. Sorry, but work and all has to come first. I'll try to take five-minute "TG breaks" as I go through the day. Is the above list final?
I believe so - I'll take another run through when I get back after class, but I think I've caught all those that I've previously TG'd. And, of course, there might be some that found the proposal on their own and have already approved it. :)

And no worries - I know how you feel. I have a test tomorrow myself, so I'm taking study breaks today, to send TG's. :D

Thanks for the help, everyone!

I can't find your proposal anywhere on the proposal list. What page is it currently sitting on and what is the exact title of it?

I can't find your proposal anywhere on the proposal list. What page is it currently sitting on and what is the exact title of it?
Search "Universal Library" and you should find it.

found

Work is done, pretty much. The forums are working fine for me, but the NS site itself (needed to do TGs) isn't. I'll try about every half hour until I catch it working.

EDIT: First 64 done, 58 verified

I've been working on mine on and off all day, pretty much. I also had a fair share that either were no longer delegates (in which case, I tried to see who had taken over the delegacy, and if they were on the list for someone else already) or they had simply died into nonexistance. Anyhow, mine are done, and after my test in about 15 hours, I should have some time to do a few more if anyone hasn't been able to get their share completed.

Special thanks to both Krioval and Nargopia for helping out with this - and for Asshelmetta for his advice (which I listened to, and you're right - it is fun to get some telegrams in response!).

The proposal is now the second one on page 6, or else you can find it at the top of this page: http://www.nationstates.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/58688/page=UN_proposal/start=26

And to those of you working on TG'ing (etc.), we currently have 53 of 148 approvals, or about 36%.

Thanks again to everyone for their support!

I like this one. Pity about the holographic wristbands though, I got one and now it's useless :(

Approvals: 68

Status: Lacking Support (requires 80 more approvals)

Voting Ends: Thu Mar 3 2005

I like this one. Pity about the holographic wristbands though, I got one and now it's useless :(
I'd hardly say useless. Think of it as a collector's item. If you're one of the maybe 10 (or so) people in the world to have one, you should put it on display in a national museum - or in your physical library, if you have one. And, if you ever run into economic troubles in your nation, auction is off to some rich person who has nothing better to do with their time than buy rare items off poor people. (yay!)

I would have purchased one myself, but given the fact that my people don't receive any money *anyhow* (Mousebumples is at 100% income tax and has been for awhile), I couldn't justify the cost since it would cause a decrease in funding elsewhere. (probably not the best plan ... )

In other news, we now have 74 approvals, with 74 left to get -- 50%! About a day and a half left to get the last few needed. Let's get to work!

Heh, I'll put it in the 'Now defunct items' wing. Along with the square wheel, and the colander coracle. :p

Okay, I"m *very* confused. Our proposal seems to have disappeared into oblivion for some reason! I've searched through the proposals awaiting approval, done a search by name ... I honestly have no idea what happened to it. I'll be sending a message to the mods shortly because if it was deleted, I'd like to know why, exactly.

I'm really hoping I'm blind, or my computer has cookie issues or ... something. But I don't know what happened to it. Maybe it's for the best, what with Krioval disappearing for a bit soonish. Which days did you say you were gone from? (thinking ahead, in case I will need to resubmit it ... )

We have no record of your proposal being deleted by a moderator.
That's a good thing. The bad thing is that it's still missing. Probably some sort of computer glitch, I'd think. Grrr ...

Anyhow since I believe Krioval is leaving soonish to go on his trip (and since the current resolution is good through Monday or so), I'll be resubmitting at some point in time, just not immediately. Thoughts on a date for resubmission are welcome - more from Krioval than anyone else since he knows when he'll be around. I have two more weeks of class before I head off for a week of Spring Break (yay!), so getting it to queue. Perhaps wait until Monday night/Tuesday morning to submit it? However, I don't remember exactly when Krioval will be getting back from his holiday, so any comments there would be greatly appreciated. :)

Thanks, everyone. And, now, if you have things you'd like to see edited/changed, head over to the previous discussion thread (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=398408), just to keep everything in one place until I resubmit. :)

I'll be reposting the latest version momentarily ...

That's a good thing. The bad thing is that it's still missing. Probably some sort of computer glitch, I'd think. Grrr ...
I had this happen twice when submitting Rights and Duties of UN States. The explanation is really quite simple.

Last night, your proposal was on Page 6, with an expiration date of Thursday, March 3. (no modly powers here - I was wandering the list last night and noticed it was doing well.) Sometime around 7 AM EST, the update removed all the proposals that were due to expire ... yours among them. Bear in mind that it DID expire on Mar 3, just earlier than you expected. Remember, it was already noon in the UK, evening in Asia.

Advice: Submit about 9 AM EST for best results. Don't let it end on a weekend - weekdays are better. Luck.

Sorry about not getting all the TGs done. I got through about two-thirds of them ultimately. Next week should be a bit more sane after I return from a family vacation and my experiments stop failing!

I had this happen twice when submitting Rights and Duties of UN States. The explanation is really quite simple.

Last night, your proposal was on Page 6, with an expiration date of Thursday, March 3. (no modly powers here - I was wandering the list last night and noticed it was doing well.) Sometime around 7 AM EST, the update removed all the proposals that were due to expire ... yours among them. Bear in mind that it DID expire on Mar 3, just earlier than you expected. Remember, it was already noon in the UK, evening in Asia.

Advice: Submit about 9 AM EST for best results. Don't let it end on a weekend - weekdays are better. Luck.
Interesting. I didn't know that. I figured that it would probably be deleted around the same time that I submitted it on that day. And the odd thing is that if I had waited another 4 or so hours to submit, it would have stuck around for (theoretically) an extra 12 hours or so. That seems weird ... Thanks for the advice and information though. :)

Krioval - no worries. We'll get it the next time around. :D

on behalf of the Rogue State of Resistancia, we fully agree with this proposal, except for one point:
If a nation opts to participate, they will pay an annual fee to have the Universal Library made available to all internet portals within that nation.
there is two problems we see with this.
1. we can see some nations passing the subscription on to the people, either in the form of taxation, or forcing them to pay for the privelage.
2. except on the count of ficticious articles, this knowledge should be free for all. any factual documentation should be available for people to be used as resources. in the case of fictious articles, it is agree that the authors should recieve due payment. this would also include biographies and 'based on true' stories.

1. we can see some nations passing the subscription on to the people, either in the form of taxation, or forcing them to pay for the privelage.

Well, seeing as how governments only acquire money either through taxation or through selling services to citizens directly (like the RL US Post Office), I think that governments will universally do one or the other, unless some governments are adept at creating money from thin air (or simply invade other nations and pillage to provide for the UL).

2. except on the count of ficticious articles, this knowledge should be free for all. any factual documentation should be available for people to be used as resources. in the case of fictious articles, it is agree that the authors should recieve due payment. this would also include biographies and 'based on true' stories.

It costs a fair amount of money to maintain this system. If nations don't want in, they don't have to pay. If they do, they can pay up like everybody else. It's a perfectly fair system. People pay for a service if they feel it's worth it to them. If it were made almost entirely free, what would be the incentive to submit works to the system anyway? And how would maintenance be paid?

we see your point, Krioval, but looking through, the point of charging can also be seen as taxing, which the UN is prohibited from doing, under UN Resolution #4. while it is not directly taxing, member nations will still charge or tax its people for the service, thus it would be seen as taxing by the UN

1. we can see some nations passing the subscription on to the people, either in the form of taxation, or forcing them to pay for the privelage.
Why is that wrong? Where else would the money come from? The concept of printing more money to participate in the ULC isn't really the smartest thing to do from an economic standpoint. Of course, taxation is by no means obligatory, but I think that's a decison that should be left up to the individual member nations.


2. except on the count of ficticious articles, this knowledge should be free for all. any factual documentation should be available for people to be used as resources. in the case of fictious articles, it is agree that the authors should recieve due payment. this would also include biographies and 'based on true' stories.
This was addressed previously in the other thread (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=8269991&postcount=67). Rather, this bit was inserted in response to a comment that intellectual property needs to be respected in order for new research and nonfiction books to be written. As it was previous stated by ... someone (I forget who), if anyone can read something via the ULC with no payment made to the author/publisher, what motivation would there be for them to create future literary works? There are some cases in which monetary compensation is unnecessary, largely when it comes to works that are not copyrighted.

I agree that forcing citizens to pay per page view or something seems silly. If we get this proposal passed, my nation will take the money needed for the annual fee from the people's taxes, so that free access will be available on demand year round. But this method may not work for other nations. Why should I force my method of doing things on others? Should your own nation choose to join, you're free to handle things as you see fit, in accordance with the requirements for membership.

Thanks for the comments though. :)

Cross-posted to this thread (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=8350876#post8350876) ...

we see your point, Krioval, but looking through, the point of charging can also be seen as taxing, which the UN is prohibited from doing, under UN Resolution #4. while it is not directly taxing, member nations will still charge or tax its people for the service, thus it would be seen as taxing by the UN
Not really. Resolution #4 reads:
The UN shall not be allowed to collect taxes directly from the citizens of any member state for any purpose.

The UN is not collecting any taxes. The member state may choose to collect taxes, if they'd like, if they decide to join the ULC. The UN is not taxing anyone - especially since membership in the ULC is optional to UN members as well.

This may have already been addressed in the other thread, but I'm curious.

CREATES a ULC Executive Committee (ULCEC) consisting of fifteen (15) individuals selected from ULC member nations that are elected every three (3) years. With a two-thirds (2/3) majority vote, they will set annual fees that nations pay to gain access to the global library. Additionally, the ULCEC will consult with other ULC nations to manage any issues related to the maintenance and operation of the ULC infrastructure that arise.
I'm wondering whether there are any restrictions planned on people who are eligible for posts on the Executive Committee. I'm thinking that governmental members shouldn't be involved in running this, as they may try and twist it. I admit that this may quite be hard to do, but I'd be interested to hear your thoughts.

The author is not always due payment. If their work appears in a newspaper, and that newspaper is archived, the payment should usually go to the publisher of that newspaper, in the same way that when you buy a newspaper you pay the publisher, not each journalist.

Your text also fails to account for works to which the authors do not have exclusive rights - it would be inappropriate, for instance, to pay politicians in order to archive legislation which they originally wrote.
You make a good point, and one that I *really* wish would have been brought up before I submitted the proposal this morning. That subscription fee was the last thing added in before I submitted the proposal, so it's only been a part of the writeup for maybe 3 or 4 days.

Should it not reach quorum and/or be passed this time around, that's definitely something I'll consider before submitting again.

Thanks for the feedback/comments. :)
Friendly reminder...

Also, I have to say I miss the list of referenced proposals. Maybe some other wording can be condensed and the references can be reinstated.

I'm wondering whether there are any restrictions planned on people who are eligible for posts on the Executive Committee. I'm thinking that governmental members shouldn't be involved in running this, as they may try and twist it. I admit that this may quite be hard to do, but I'd be interested to hear your thoughts.
To some extent, yes. I figured that going into details about eligibility would be *far* too detailed and not really worth the extra words. (especially now that I know that there's a limit! :eek: )

Thoughts that were previously expressed largely had to do with having the ULEC made up of a majority of UN member reps, rather than non-UN reps. I wouldn't be against having one or two of the fifteen be non-UN reps, simply for the purposes of diversity and differing opinions, but since this is a UN organized coalition, UN member nations should probably have the most say.

And I agree that non-leaders should be the ones that are a part of the ULCEC. Perhaps members of a leader's advisory board, but not the out and out leader - otherwise I doubt that they'd have time to really devote to the business of the ULC. But, again, I think that those are details that we don't really have room for (character count-wise) in the proposal.

Friendly reminder...

Also, I have to say I miss the list of referenced proposals. Maybe some other wording can be condensed and the references can be reinstated.
Slight alterations have been made in accordance with the person's previous comment. I think I reposted in the other thread, but I can do that here later as well. :)

And agreed. I also miss details about the referenced resolutions. I'll have to see what I can condense down without leaving out much in the way of vital information later. Probably later tonight actually ...

Thanks, both of you. :D

Mousebumples, did you save the list of delegates who'd approved it before it disappeared?

If you didn't, perhaps one of the admins could retrieve the information for you?

Because the telegram they get next time around should thank them for their previous support, and mention the improvements made.

Mousebumples, did you save the list of delegates who'd approved it before it disappeared?

If you didn't, perhaps one of the admins could retrieve the information for you?

Because the telegram they get next time around should thank them for their previous support, and mention the improvements made.
I wasn't expecting it to disappear when it did, so no, I hadn't saved it yet. I could certainly try to get one of the admins to retrieve it, although I'm not certain if they'd be able to do that. It's worth a try at least, I suppose. :)

I was more or less planning to re-TG everyone I'd contacted and mention that I appreciated their previous consideration of my proposal, and that I'd changed a few things - x, y, and z. But if I know who supported it before, that might work a little better.

Thanks for the suggestion. And I'll be posting a rewrite in a few hours ... :)

I'll take a shot at tightening it up a bit to make room for the previous resolutions list.

I've marked things I think could be deleted in red, and put suggested replacement wording in bold brackets.
[quote]
Universal Library Coalition
A resolution to reduce income inequality and increase basic welfare.
Category: Social Justice
Strength: Mild
Proposed by: Mousebumples
Description: NOTING previous resolutions passed by the United Nations for the purpose of furthering education worldwide (#28, #54, #79) [reinstate original list here]

UNDERSTANDING the limitations of the previous Global Library resolution (#86), which was repealed,

THE UNITED NATIONS -
CALLS for the formation of a Universal Library Coalition (ULC). The Universal Library provided by the ULC will be internet-based and may archive any published form of the written word including, but not limited to, fiction and nonfiction books, constitutions and laws from around the world, newspapers, magazines, and professional journals.

ALLOWS FOR SUBMISSIONS from individual member nations on the condition that permission has been granted [of works authorized] by the publisher and/or author to archive the work[be archived] within the Universal Library. Authors of archived [copyrighted]material within the Universal Library will receive an annual subscription payment from the ULC in return for allowing wide access to their work. Any submissions that violate copyright laws will be rejected.

PLACES the central server for the Universal Library within the United Nations Headquarters. The library will be indexed at minimum by author, title, nation of origin, and keywords. Submissions will be further indexed by[, and] category, [(]such as biography, or periodical[) as]. The category will be determined by the works’ publisher.

ALLOWS FOR NATIONAL PARTICIPATION by giving [GIVES] each UN member nation and non-UN member nation the opportunity to participate and be a member of the ULC. If a nation opts to participate, they will pay an annual fee to have the Universal Library made available to all internet portals within that nation. Member nations may also choose to provide content filters for their citizenry. Each participating nation may build a physical library within their borders, at their own cost. Each participating nation will maintain a backup of their national data archived within the ULC.

CREATES a ULC Executive Committee (ULCEC) consisting of fifteen (15) individuals selected from ULC member nations that are elected every three (3) years. With a two-thirds (2/3) majority vote, they will [to] set annual fees that nations pay to gain access to the global library. Additionally, tThe ULCEC will consult with other ULC nations to manage any issues related to the maintenance and operation of the ULC infrastructure that arise.

PROMOTES cultural awareness by permitting the creation of the Universal Literary Exchange Network (ULEN). Any ULC member nation may designate a section of a physical library or museum to house a rotating collection of literary works provided by other ULC nations[, and a collection of works they are willing to lend out]. These works will be provided voluntarily to the ULEN for no more than twenty-four (24) months at a time[ at no additional charge to the nation]. The ULCEC will arrange for works to be moved from one ULC member nation to another. There will be no additional charge to any ULC member nation who wishes to become involved in the ULEN, presuming that those who request foreign works are willing to lend out works of their own.

DETAILS that the ULC and ULEN will be incorporated as non-profit organizations. Additionally, t[T]he ULC and ULEN will be entirely funded by participating nations, regardless of their membership in the United NationsThus, n[. N]o taxing authority shall be created by the passage of this resolution. Non-members are free to form their own libraries within their own borders and are in no way restricted from sharing information with other nations around the world.

If you didn't, perhaps one of the admins could retrieve the information for you?.
Sorry, not an option. There's no Recycle Bin at the end of the Proposals list. Just a furnace.

Some very good suggestions - thanks Asshelmetta. I've changed quite a bit from the original now, so here goes version ... eleven, maybe?

UNIVERSAL LIBRARY COALITION
A resolution to reduce income inequality and increase basic welfare.
Category: Social Justice
Strength: Mild
Proposed by: Mousebumples
Description: NOTING previous resolutions passed by the United Nations for the purpose of furthering education worldwide (#28 - Free Education, #54 - UN Educational Committee, #79 - Reformed Literacy Initiative), and also noting resolution #63 - Freedom of the Press, [tentatively removing this section in brackets since it's more or less extraneous and unneeded - which encourages all UN member nations to increase the knowledge, and the truth of said knowledge, within their borders through the sharing of information with other nations]

UNDERSTANDING the limitations of the previous Global Library resolution (#86), which was repealed,

THE UNITED NATIONS -
CALLS for the formation of a Universal Library Coalition (ULC). The Universal Library provided by the ULC will be internet-based and may archive any published form of the written word including, but not limited to, fiction and nonfiction books, constitutions and laws from around the world, newspapers, magazines, and professional journals.

ALLOWS FOR SUBMISSIONS from individual member nations of works authorized by the publisher and/or author to be archived within the Universal Library. Authors or publishers of copyrighted material within the Universal Library will receive an annual subscription payment in return for allowing wide access to their work. Any submissions that violate copyright laws will be rejected.

PLACES the central server for the Universal Library within the United Nations Headquarters. The library will be indexed at minimum by author, title, nation of origin, keywords, and category, such as biography or periodical, as determined by the publisher.

GIVES each UN member nation and non-UN member nation the opportunity to participate and be a member of the ULC. Those that choose to participate will pay an annual fee to have the Universal Library made available to all internet portals within that nation. Member nations may also choose to provide content filters for their citizenry. Each participating nation may build a physical library within their borders, at their own cost. Each participating nation will maintain a backup of their national data archived within the ULC.

CREATES a ULC Executive Committee (ULCEC) consisting of fifteen (15) individuals selected from ULC member nations that are elected every three (3) years and will set annual fees that nations pay to gain access to the global library. The ULCEC will consult with other ULC nations to manage any issues related to the maintenance and operation of the ULC infrastructure that arise.

PROMOTES cultural awareness by permitting the creation of the Universal Literary Exchange Network (ULEN). Any ULC member nation may designate a section of a physical library or museum to house a rotating collection of literary works provided by other ULC nations. In exchange, they will volunteer some works from their own nation to the ULEN for no more than twenty-four (24) months at a time. The ULCEC will arrange for works to be moved from one ULC member nation to another.

DETAILS that the ULC and ULEN will be incorporated as non-profit organizations. The ULC and ULEN will be entirely funded by participating nations. No taxing authority shall be created by the passage of this resolution. Non-members are free to form their own libraries within their own borders and are in no way restricted from sharing information with other nations.

***

Thoughts? And I did request the character length limit from the mods, when I asked for the list of delegates that previously approved the proposal. Of course, thanks to Fris, we now know that's not possible (thanks for the info!), but hopefully we can double-check the length maximum, and know that what we have is okay before I resubmit it. :D

Thoughts? And I did request the character length limit from the mods, when I asked for the list of delegates that previously approved the proposal. Of course, thanks to Fris, we now know that's not possible (thanks for the info!), but hopefully we can double-check the length maximum, and know that what we have is okay before I resubmit it. :D
Current proposal (UNWODC) - 3420 characters, including spaces
The Eon Convention on Genocide - 3440
Your proposal above, including notes and formatting tags - 3626
Without formatting or bracketed section - 3110

I'd say you're in the right range.

Fair enough about the council clause. It's not really necessary to go into that much detail.

[tentatively removing this section in brackets since it's more or less extraneous and unneeded - which encourages all UN member nations to increase the knowledge, and the truth of said knowledge, within their borders through the sharing of information with other nations]
IMHO you can safely get rid of this, as it is enough to reference the resolutions. Any interested parties can find them in the archives. I dunno if [url]s can be placed in the proposal category, but that would solve this as well.

IMHO you can safely get rid of this, as it is enough to reference the resolutions. Any interested parties can find them in the archives. I dunno if [url]s can be placed in the proposal category, but that would solve this as well.
I would guess no, but I'm not really sure. Can anyone confirm?

If they could, they would count as characters.

I get 3,304 for the body of the resolution including the unitalicized part of the bracketed section.

ALLOWS FOR SUBMISSIONS from individual member nations of works authorized by the publisher and/or author to be archived within the Universal Library. Authors or publishers of copyrighted material within the Universal Library will receive an annual subscription payment in return for allowing wide access to their work. Any submissions that violate copyright laws will be rejected.

May I suggest a change to this?

ALLOWS FOR SUBMISSIONS, in accordance with copyright laws, of works from individual nations. If the work is not in the public domain (as per resolution #60 Public Domain), it may not be archived unless permission is obtained from the holder of the rights to the work, who will recieve an annual payment in return for allowing wide access to their work.

This is shorter and ensures that the correct person gives permission and receives payment.

Sounds good, _Myopia_ -- great idea. I've changed the wording a bit, but the essence is still about the same, I think. If you have any additional comments or revisions, let me know. :)

UNIVERSAL LIBRARY COALITION
A resolution to reduce income inequality and increase basic welfare.
Category: Social Justice
Strength: Mild
Proposed by: Mousebumples
Description: NOTING previous resolutions passed by the United Nations for the purpose of furthering education worldwide (#28 - Free Education, #54 - UN Educational Committee, #79 - Reformed Literacy Initiative), and also noting resolution #63 - Freedom of the Press, [tentatively removing this section in brackets since it's more or less extraneous and unneeded - which encourages all UN member nations to increase the knowledge, and the truth of said knowledge, within their borders through the sharing of information with other nations]

UNDERSTANDING the limitations of the previous Global Library resolution (#86), which was repealed,

THE UNITED NATIONS -
CALLS for the formation of a Universal Library Coalition (ULC). The Universal Library provided by the ULC will be internet-based and may archive any published form of the written word including, but not limited to, fiction and nonfiction books, constitutions and laws from around the world, newspapers, magazines, and professional journals.

ACCEPTS submissions from individual member nations, in accordance with copyright laws. If the work is not in the public domain (as per resolution #60 - Public Domain), it may not be archived unless permission is obtained from the holder of the rights to the work. This individual or group will receive an annual payment in return for allowing wide access to their work.

PLACES the central server for the Universal Library within the United Nations Headquarters. The library will be indexed at minimum by author, title, nation of origin, keywords, and category, such as biography or periodical, as determined by the publisher.

GIVES each UN member nation and non-UN member nation the opportunity to participate and be a member of the ULC. Those that choose to participate will pay an annual fee to have the Universal Library made available to all internet portals within that nation. Member nations may also choose to provide content filters for their citizenry. Each participating nation may build a physical library within their borders, at their own cost. Each participating nation will maintain a backup of their national data archived within the ULC.

CREATES a ULC Executive Committee (ULCEC) consisting of fifteen (15) individuals selected from ULC member nations that are elected every three (3) years and will set annual fees that nations pay to gain access to the global library. The ULCEC will consult with other ULC nations to manage any issues related to the maintenance and operation of the ULC infrastructure that arise.

PROMOTES cultural awareness by permitting the creation of the Universal Literary Exchange Network (ULEN). Any ULC member nation may designate a section of a physical library or museum to house a rotating collection of literary works provided by other ULC nations. In exchange, they will volunteer some works from their own nation to the ULEN for no more than twenty-four (24) months at a time. The ULCEC will arrange for works to be moved from one ULC member nation to another.

DETAILS that the ULC and ULEN will be incorporated as non-profit organizations. The ULC and ULEN will be entirely funded by participating nations. No taxing authority shall be created by the passage of this resolution. Non-members are free to form their own libraries within their own borders and are in no way restricted from sharing information with other nations.

***

Looking at the setup, I'm wondering if the bolded section shouldn't be moved down two or so, below the part about membership. It probably doesn't matter that much, but I'm nit-picky over things like this sometimes. Hrm.

As a note, I'll be resubmitting this proposal tomorrow morning. Like before - any volunteers for TG duty? Just thought it couldn't hurt to ask ...

I'm still up for TGing.

TG arrangement ...

NARGOPIA (thanks for volunteering to help! I removed New Texas from your list, as I'm in pretty regular contact with him through one of my puppets that is stationed in Texas ... Otherwise your list is pretty much the same)
High Spiritus, JS Nijmegen, Gaiah, Asshelmetta, Metal Poets, Tariol, Monadnock, Yelda, Acada Demada, Laueria, Grumioland, Shanagolia, The Black New World, Sulon, Coprinsteland, Dahlk, Al-Zar, The Cariebbean, DragonSpeartopia, Nomikia, Tzimiscie, Domintora, The Belima, WZ Forums, 1 Infinite Loop, Ataraxics, The Derrak Quadrant, Dominicalius, Dafidutopia, Jake 4, Knuckles Promised Land, Kubersland, Lotharisia, Kadield, Jibba-Jabbia, Fenor, Shenanigoat Junction, Novus Terra Reborn, Bohemia and Moravia II, Sinns right hand, Lichto, Funky Celtic Kleptos, Baribeau, Shadow GOYakitaN, Nunograd, Dolich, Annenburg, Rekistan, Hidlberg, La Commune Quebecoise, GizzmoAsus, Magiqa, Great Kienholz, Lamoni, Scattered Islands, Oscarina, Catt-man-do, Northern Nukeland, G_Wiz, JayRoddia, Nielston, Fees Maudites, Kyndcat, The Red Lair, Grand Teton, Master Tom, Tanthe, La Tropicana, Hockey Fandom, Bulgarian Legion, Hkdl, Crazy irish ppl, SlowRoll, TheBongos, Ashualiat, Manfredonia, Galaxy Bright Star, Javelindon, Zapvilla, NaMonde, Unrestrained Anarchy, Killtron, Dem Deadbeats, Sam99978, Racoonesia, Sputnikov, Crydonia, Looplyness, Great Britain---, Spartanious, Juxtaposed Borderlines, Cachay, Aquatnis, Dark nipple people, Itsdawhitebunny, Ellensborough, Rhody, Beach Bay, Knowledge of Dragons, Markodonia, Alexein, Fastnet, Teews, N00t, Steven Kyle, America---, Arro Gance, Carlos Santos, Womblinia, Spartans mark2, Punk-ass Ninjas, Doodania, Omairia, Alomogordo, Constellia, Nenuial, Signamarcheix, Varasa, Conservative Haters, Dizziness, Oil Trough, Bedouin States, Radona, Thgin, Molnervia, The Borg Subconscious, Daltwood 2, LouFerringoland, Dutch Berhampore, The Talisman, Bijanian Utopia, Aston, North-Baltia, Kemdoph, Tomaa, Bill-kalamata 999, Adam Island, Amaris Ursana, Memorial Park, The Hollow Eye,


MOUSEBUMPLES
NewTexas, DaJonesians, TheBeave, The Mighty Pump, Borgoa, Pyro Kittens, Purpleation, Freedmark, Ceskeland, Cunnyfuntbooboo, Tierra del Queso, Buaness, Transplanetary Peoples, Cockeysville, Graceofseppuku, Innerfilth, David Schnell, The Marine Infantry, Luna Amore, UpsilonUC, Erroneous Errol Island, Visochka, The 2nd Foundation, Dyvan, Kinkle, Norig Ellison, Crvena Zvezda, Communist Socialists M, Catanacia, Phelton, Pottervillia, Ponthier, Dowiniowe, Pannville, Sayt, Nattyworld, Ueberwald, Cobranger, Sabbe, Erehwon Forest, Memorand, Phet, Dangertk, Where was I, Moonriders, Onanistaquerulo, Grozhny, Extreme Darwinists, Mycos, Very Black People, Sirap, Josha Land, Named Meats, Wallumetta, Stubert, Manion, Chinandega, Lower Saltzburg, Nevscrow, Neo-Pangaea, UndergroundRacing, HMS Nottingham, The kevinngzh, Acids Kingdom, Beedies, Pasquazzo, Egomanics, Fyronica, Stylias, Easternmost Wasteland, Ozhland, Kentmire, Yellow Lawns, New Akana, Noonstien, North Central America, Encephelon, Suomen Turku, Metal Poets, Lonestonia, Etonians, El Chupacobra, Kaytheer, New Libertalia, Imperialer Voelkerbund, The Gimerlands, Teutonia Magna, South Jersey Shore, Trois Pont, Therenbough, Zyphyr, BonzoDooDa, No power structure, Bongbuddastan, AKAZA CORP, Haggis Hurlers, Stromland, Timidia, Shamalea, Armstrongiania, Necrogeddon, LordRisely, Calculators, Beaumerica, Easy-Going, Crookewit, Flame From Hell, Pampooria, Dogcattle, Haborym, Dersturm, Westfield Fordes, GuineaPigsRock,
United Necromancers, Saint Les, Binzer, Dominicanian Empire, Emmental, , Nightrunner, Lost Valley, Ripped Pants, Children of the Gael, Origins Returned, Marsovia, Foglorn, Quirn, Greater Kamigawa, Flibbles, Volvonce, Sweetfloss, The Caucasian Invasion, Misfitonia, Purple elephant monkey, The Bleeding Cross, Werdcrime, Nauarchonesia, Driskoland, Vampirist, The Northern Highland, YTMND, Doomynation, Lenno Bird, The Great Moo Foo, Seamus McCaffrey, Stephanieville, Paraglade, Eisenland, Chief Yellowtooth, Yopp, Bloodsbane, Arol, Tagusland, Lighfingerers, A Celtic Constituency, Scypha, Morganix, Zubinland, BenDaFatMan, Brahumptia, No Breaks, PintoBerg0, Zachnia, Aaaronius, Arwenistan, TheUnion, Rosthern, Independant Fireflies, Derekbooth, Rianon, Trielli, The disillusioned many, Coprinsteland, Genetic Superhumans, Klaun, Eutaw, The PHRF Pacific, Nisk, Navacerrada, Repechagia, PORTVALIA, Zomnkeria, Pansophia, Naravostia, Mmrkuudnia, The Greek Asteroids,


KRIOVAL (I'll work on getting as many of these done as I can, until Krioval comes back Tuesday sometime ... Unless someone else has some free time on their hands that they can volunteer? Even getting 20 or so done would be helpful!)
Socializts, The Sneezed, Stocklound, UberPatLand, Rwiggum, Sulej, The Roos Union, MountainSun, Riegab, Hippopotami-Under-Lyme, Bad Lunch Meat, Barazov, Peaonusahl, Shivan_rathi, Birds of a Feather, RachelLStaton, Luther Dorms, Toast Coverings, Shanozelhops, Mynacon, The Gregg, Shaemal, Sunset Town, Mommy D, East Lithuania, Libertarianada, Epilecutt, Los cielos, Esscose, The Empire of Will, Anasynth, The Fenian Rite, Vaultrainia, Ald Rhun, Kiriyama Lookalikes, Allymand, Windleheim, Sellac, White power world wide, JujenDanq, Vlaske, King Charles I, Goa Gubbar, Ulysees, San Salos, Phatfoo, Mulleto, Beer-drinking, Iznogoud, Psychorats, Drewzeya, Mi Scusi, Sulamar, , Anti-Sneddon, El Cuhnto, Jacobs Cream Crackers, Planet Yakadoo, Pure Unrestrained Evil, The Burning Sword, Das Buut, Pantocratoria, Shandus, Mazinopolis, Femalmen, Nova Gothia, The Kingsland, Shaloch, Samsil, Norvikeland, , Hargrimmia, Hun-Topia, Culex, Squibcakes, Folly and Goodwill, Pinconning, The 4rth Reich, Oeillade, Somewhere 999, South Shields, Krankor, Moritoriad, Witsle, Englobad, A Tortured Mind, P-40Aces, Kreisau, New Happyworld Land, The Bankers Union, Seocc, Shrimpy-UB, Nendeln, Boston, Crimson Bloodonia, Anglophones, The Great Mount, Joshburia, Luy,

NEO-ANARCHISTS
Squirrelmania, Dragunovia, The tokai, Ste Land, Melloway, Neo Cobra, Puppet Country, Acarob, Boner the Stiff, Ckech, Goofballzia, Asselia, Gorthan, Lesser Jersey, Sheepia, Melmond, Wagners band, Stansfeldland, , Tomathon, Jynxing Mormons, TesticularFortitude, Dunn Vol, Lancaster of Wessex, Rinji, Liberal Fascism, Lakin-Kohn, Johnny R Cash, Loprestia, Cheerio, Belaren, Robo Sheep, British Cannon Islands, Mithrexia, Skiapper, Hierguard, Nova Capitalia, Aakron, Toddownya, The Domain of Curly, Barkentine, The North Falklands, Romania-, Outlawed Pandas, Big Hat, Outlaw Conformity, FUA, Optima Justitia, Crypto Fascist Monks, Legnarennat, Milantia, Tyber, Mobile Suits, JFriends, Dodo Lovers, Archduke Lucian, Oisaca, Tinis, Acroppoli, GalSpan, Cherry Ridge

***

I'll post a sample TG to send out after I submit the proposal tomorrow morning ...

Here's hoping that the second time's the charm! :D

I can pick up some of the ones assigned to Krioval, if it would help any.

I can pick up some of the ones assigned to Krioval, if it would help any.
That would be *fantastic*, thanks. I just snagged some off the bottom of his assigned bunch - if you could take care of some/all of those (and any others you might have time for), that would be great. Seriously, anything you can do to help would be great.

Thanks again! :D

looks good. still concerned about the fee though, as i hope it is reasonable, but i can see some groups defining it as 'taxing knowledge'. on another note, what is going to be done about security from hackers? there are people both inside and outside the UN that could access this without paying and definatly illegally. other than that, when it comes to vote, you have that of Resistancia

looks good. still concerned about the fee though, as i hope it is reasonable, but i can see some groups defining it as 'taxing knowledge'. on another note, what is going to be done about security from hackers? there are people both inside and outside the UN that could access this without paying and definatly illegally. other than that, when it comes to vote, you have that of Resistancia
I'd hate to think of the fee as "taxing knowledge." Even OOC, libraries require funding. This sometimes comes in the form of large community donations, but I believe that - at least in my hometown - some of the money used to obtain new books and renew subscriptions comes from taxes. People can certainly pay money themselves to receive this same amount of knowledge on their own, but I figure that would cost more, and it would be more difficult for them to gain exposure to foreign texts.

Further, I didn't specify anything about security measures, largely because the proposal is long enough already. Perhaps some sort of "intranet" that isn't really accessible by anyone from outside the system? I'm not completely sure - it's something I'd have to do a little more research into, in order to give you a comprehensive response.

Thanks for the comments - and tentative support. :D

Apparently the Universal Library technology was not as far-fetched as once thought:

Have a look here. (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=528&ncid=528&e=3&u=/ap/20050306/ap_on_re_mi_ea/israel_video_warfare)

Apparently the Universal Library technology was not as far-fetched as once thought:

Have a look here. (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=528&ncid=528&e=3&u=/ap/20050306/ap_on_re_mi_ea/israel_video_warfare)
Heh, very interesting. Thanks for sharing. :) I never would have thought that the Israelis would be the first to have this sort of technology. Nothing against them, mind you, just that the US always seems to be the ones spending excess money on military stuff that perhaps could be used for better purposes ... :headbang: [/end minor rant at Bush]

*ANYHOW* I just resubmitted the proposal - thanks to everyone for their help and suggestions over the past week or so, to help condense the proposal and make it as concise as possible.

It can currently be found on page 13, or at this exact page: http://www.nationstates.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/76279/page=UN_proposal/start=62.

Dear Esteemed Delegate of _________,
As you may recall, last week a proposal was submitted to the UN for it's consideration. Entitled "Universal Library Coalition," it would have acted to provide a replacement for the recently repealed Global Library resolution. However, it was removed when it was just shy of quorum, and has since been resubmitted with a few slight changes.

I'd appreciate it if you would consider approving the proposal. Today (Wednesday) you can find it on Page 3, or at the top of the following page: http://www.nationstates.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/91310/page=UN_proposal/start=14

Otherwise, as always, you can search by name for this particular proposal at the bottom of each page listing off the proposals. This proposal is open for approval through Thursday, so I'd appreciate it if you would consider approving this one at your earliest convenience.

Should you have any questions, or need any further clarification, please don't hesitate to contact me. Additionally, you may also want to check out the NS forum thread on the subject - http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=401390

Thank you very much for your consideration,
Your signature here

As mentioned the last time around - try to personalize the TG as much as you can. Compliment the nation in question on something of their own - their flag, their motto, their national animal ... etc. Of course, sincerity is paramount - don't make up stuff that you like, for the sake of doing so.

Also, the stuff in bold (minus the signature bit) will be changing every day. If you want to take those parts out, condense them, or send a completely different telegram that gets across the same message - that's more than fine. Any effort you can make will be greatly appreciated.

Any comments, questions, clarifications? Have at it! I'm off to class ... :D

Apparently the Universal Library technology was not as far-fetched as once thought:

Have a look here. (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=528&ncid=528&e=3&u=/ap/20050306/ap_on_re_mi_ea/israel_video_warfare)
Fascinating. I think the reason the US didn't come up with it first is that the Israelis practice "targeted killings" whereas the US does not.

The Israeli military never ceases to impress me.

Fascinating. I think the reason the US didn't come up with it first is that the Israelis practice "targeted killings" whereas the US does not.

The Israeli military never ceases to impress me.
OOC:
What makes you think the US military doesn't have this?

*ANYHOW* I just resubmitted the proposal

I really hope it makes it this time around. It's nice work. It probably will make it with all the work you guys already have done through last time's near-miss. But still here's a very sincere
Good Luck!

I really hope it makes it this time around. It's nice work. It probably will make it with all the work you guys already have done through last time's near-miss. But still here's a very sincere
Good Luck!
Hey, thanks! :) I'm hoping so, as well, because if we don't get it through this time, we'll likely have to take a break before resubmitting since I'll be heading home (and likely on a family trip somewhere) in 2 weeks. Enough time to get this version through, likely, but not much else :-\

Anyhow, thanks again for the support! :D

I've endorsed. My nation and/or region may be deleted before the proposal expires (there's a petition in the moderation forum), but here's wishes for good luck!

I'm done with the TGing.
These nations didn't exist:
Neo Cobra, Dunn Vol, Oisaca
And these nations were not delegate:
Gorthan, Wagners band, Tomathon, Mobile Suits, Archduke Lucian

Everybody else has recieved a telegram.

I've endorsed. My nation and/or region may be deleted before the proposal expires (there's a petition in the moderation forum), but here's wishes for good luck!
Thanks for the support - and good luck on avoiding deletion! :)

I'm done with the TGing.
Wow, thanks! If you have more time to do more of Krioval's, feel free. Just start at either the beginning or end, and let me know how far you get. I'm still working on my own batch, so - really - thanks so much for your help and support! :D

I've done some telegramming off the bottom of Krioval's list, leaving these:

Socializts, The Sneezed, Stocklound, UberPatLand, Rwiggum, Sulej, The Roos Union, MountainSun, Riegab, Hippopotami-Under-Lyme, Bad Lunch Meat, Barazov, Peaonusahl, Shivan_rathi, Birds of a Feather, RachelLStaton, Luther Dorms, Toast Coverings, Shanozelhops, Mynacon, The Gregg, Shaemal, Sunset Town, Mommy D, East Lithuania, Libertarianada, Epilecutt, Los cielos, Esscose, The Empire of Will, Anasynth, The Fenian Rite, Vaultrainia, Ald Rhun, Kiriyama Lookalikes, Allymand, Windleheim, Sellac, White power world wide, JujenDanq, Vlaske, King Charles I, Goa Gubbar, Ulysees, San Salos, Phatfoo, Mulleto, Beer-drinking, Iznogoud, Psychorats, Drewzeya, Mi Scusi, Sulamar, , Anti-Sneddon, El Cuhnto, Jacobs Cream Crackers, Planet Yakadoo, Pure Unrestrained Evil, The Burning Sword, Das Buut, Pantocratoria, Shandus, Mazinopolis, Femalmen, Nova Gothia, The Kingsland, Shaloch, Samsil, Norvikeland, , Hargrimmia, Hun-Topia, Culex, Squibcakes, Folly and Goodwill,


These nations are no longer delegate:
The 4rth Reich, Oeillade, South Shields, Krankor, Shrimpy-UB

Asshelmetta, what'd you (allegedly) do?

Asshelmetta, what'd you (allegedly) do?
This (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=403139) happened.

I'm not dead yet!

I'm not dead yet!
"In fact, I feel much better! I think I'll take a walk!"

:D

Thank you very much, Neo-Anarchists, for all your helps. I'm sure Krioval appreciates it too. I'm doing some TG'ing during my study breaks (test on Principles of Drug Action on Wednesday ... now doesn't that sound like fun? [/OOC])

Asshelmetta - good luck with your defense. Personally, I don't get all that bothered by swear words in a part of a nation's name. From the sounds of things the nation that filed the complaint *does* ... despite all his claims to the contrary. :( I hope it turns out well!

If I knew where to make the argument, I'd point out that ass is a common term for a donkey.

But fris said it was a NS thing, not a forum thing, so I wouldn't know where to say it.

As I said somewhere, should this nationstate be deleted I'll return with some variant of YGSM (You Guys Scare Me).

Very good point, Asshelmetta. All the same - I hope it works out for you.

Just to update, I've finished sending my TG's, and I'll be sending out the remainder of Krioval's tomorrow morning, unless someone beats me to it. For now, though, it's back to the books ... :(

(fyi - We currently have 30 of 149 approvals, which is 20% before the first day is even over. Not bad ... not bad at all. Thanks for all the help and support, everyone! :D)

don't forget to periodically save the list of delegates who've approved - if it needs one more go-around, that will be invaluable.

don't forget to periodically save the list of delegates who've approved - if it needs one more go-around, that will be invaluable.
Thanks for the reminder, Asshelmetta. You'd like to think that I wouldn't need a reminder after last time, but ... ahem ... I did. Anyhow, the 33 delegates that have approved it thus far are officially saved on my computer. And I'm just about done for the night. I'll try to remember to save it each night before I go to bed. :)

Ah hell, I'm no longer a delegate. Oh well, good luck anyway.

Ah hell, I'm no longer a delegate. Oh well, good luck anyway.
Thanks for the support.

And for anyone who wants/needs to know - I've revised the sample TG with today's info - See Post #56 (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=8377635&postcount=56)

At the moment we have 47 approvals - or 31%. We're doing well thus far! :D

Just to update - 61 out of 148 - 41%. :D

Any delegates who haven't yet approved, please do so. Or, if you haven't already expressed your concerns/issues with the proposal, please post them here, so we can address them and/or think of possible edits in the case of the need for a subsuquent resubmission. :)

My region seems likely to survive, so if my nation is deleted I'll ask whoever replaces me as delegate to approve.

My region seems likely to survive, so if my nation is deleted I'll ask whoever replaces me as delegate to approve.
Thanks for the continued support. And good luck with your efforts in the other thread. :)

And it appears (judging from the recent approvals) that Krioval is back from his holiday - glad to have you back! :D

Current approval count - 67/148 - 45% ... We're getting mighty close! (and I'll be saving the list again before I go to bed ... )

Updated the sample TG links and such for Wednesday (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=8377635&postcount=56)

Also - 71/149 - 48% ... Just to keep everyone updated. :)

wait...

How long do you have before it runs out of time to be approved?
I forgot...

wait...

How long do you have before it runs out of time to be approved?
I forgot...
Until tomorrow - Thursday. After my test in about an hour, I'll be doing hard-core delegate TG'ing, to try to make quorum. I just wish I hadn't had a test this week, so I would have had more time to spend doing such things ...

Until tomorrow - Thursday.
:eek:
Damn.

If Wang Chun's region had a delegate, Wang Chun would be happy to lobby for approval.

If Wang Chun's region had a delegate, Wang Chun would be happy to lobby for approval.
Much appreciated. :)

FYI to everyone/anyone who cares - I'll be working on the remaining TG's for Krioval now ... and we're up to 78/149 or 52% ...

ETA: Krioval's TG's done, and now I'm just TG'ing various delegates on the "list of all delegates" from the UN page. If anyone else would like to participate in such an endeavor, I adapted the previous telegram a bit. Just let me know.

Oh, and now we're at 82/149 or 55% :D

OOC: I'm officially back now, finally. Yesterday, sadly, was a mess, with flight delays and other various crises keeping me pretty busy (with the occasional break for a post) until almost midnight.

OOC: I'm officially back now, finally. Yesterday, sadly, was a mess, with flight delays and other various crises keeping me pretty busy (with the occasional break for a post) until almost midnight.
Glad to hear that you're back safe and sound - despite any delays you might have encountered ... :D

ETA: 107/149, or 72%. We're getting closer and closer! :)

Glad to hear that you're back safe and sound - despite any delays you might have encountered ... :D

ETA: 107/149, or 72%. We're getting closer and closer! :)
Wow. that took a long time. site's having issues again.

over 120. have you cross-referenced the list of people you telegrammed against the approving delegates from the last resolution?

or against the approvers of the proposals on page 1 of the queue?

Wow. that took a long time. site's having issues again.

over 120. have you cross-referenced the list of people you telegrammed against the approving delegates from the last resolution?

or against the approvers of the proposals on page 1 of the queue?
I had the page of approving delegates from the last resolution open (but not yet saved) on my computer, and then my browser crashed. Grrr. I have saved all the currently approved delegates, as well as those currently approving the International Court of Justice (which is around 100 approvals as well). I don't have the coherency right now to cross-check them, but I'll hopefully have a chance to do that tomorrow before classes ...

135/149 now - 91% ... We're almost there, and we'll hopefully make it this time around! Thanks so much for suggestion and support everyone - really, it means a lot to me. :D

You're in queue. Good luck.

You're in queue. Good luck.
yes 156 endoresments will be enough. now the big fight is coming. my one vote will go for that good proposal.

Thanks, for the support you two. Also thanks to Pojonia for his help in getting the first one repealed to make way for a new proposal. :)

Gosh, I'm so nervous now. We'll see what happens, I guess ....

Congratulations on reaching Quorum, This has the full support of the Venerable Libertarians, and the backing of the Realm of Hibernia.

Congratulations on reaching Quorum, This has the full support of the Venerable Libertarians, and the backing of the Realm of Hibernia.
Glad to hear it - thanks! :D

Should be interesting. I think it'll pass because it's a strong resolution.

Should be interesting. I think it'll pass because it's a strong resolution.
The original global library passed, and it was really just a preliminary draft.

I don't imagine this one having a tough time at all.

Congratulations, Mousebumples!

The original global library passed, and it was really just a preliminary draft.

I don't imagine this one having a tough time at all.

Congratulations, Mousebumples!
Thanks. I've been saving the delegates that continue to approve, thinking that should the vote end up being close, and some of them haven't voted, I could (hopefully) call on them to vote in favor of the proposal. We'll see what happens. I'd like to think that this one will succeed, but that's certainly being presumptuous ... A part of me almost feels like the hard part's just begun. (then again, maybe the hard part was getting to the point where we had a proposal we felt comfortable submitting? ... )

Thanks again for all your help, support, and warm wishes, everyone! :D
~Lizzy~

Well, it took us almost a month to come up with a decent proposal, two weeks to get quorum, and I predict that next week, the thing will pass. So, the way I see it, we're about six-sevenths the way through the process.

Congratulations again!

In comparisson to the previous resolution, this seems even more pointless. You have created what amounts to putting books on the web, and now you want to charge people to read them.

How is this going to affect book sales? Is reading it on the web going to be cheaper than buying the book (given the costs included in getting on line, subscribing to the library and so forth) and if not why bother with this at all?

The Previous Global Library resolution had problems, but it gave the UN something to unite over and something to aim for - a chance to develop this technology. All this does is create a new version of amazon.com where you don't even get to take the books home.

I can't vote for this, and if it passes I have no desire to be a part of it and will try to get it repealed forthwith.

In comparisson to the previous resolution, this seems even more pointless. You have created what amounts to putting books on the web, and now you want to charge people to read them.
Not charge individual people to read them, like on access, for example. More of a universal web access sort of thing. Yes, there will be a cost for this library, just as there would be for individual nation/city/regional libraries. I thought that putting books on the web would increase universal access, rather than having to deal with potential logistic problems of transporting hard copies of *books* all over, to various UN nations.

How is this going to affect book sales? Is reading it on the web going to be cheaper than buying the book (given the costs included in getting on line, subscribing to the library and so forth) and if not why bother with this at all?
Book sales could decrease, I suppose, but the annual subscription fee for works not in the public domain should help prevent the complete ruination of the publishing industry. This subscription fee would be set by the ULCEC, and I'd like to presume that it would be fair. Yes, in the short-term, there would be advantages to only paying a minimal amount. However, long-term (as has been pointed out to me by other nations) not receiving enough in terms of payment/profit could and likely would cripple the publishing industry and make it more difficult for such industries to survive.

The Previous Global Library resolution had problems, but it gave the UN something to unite over and something to aim for - a chance to develop this technology.
I understand your problems with the proposal, and I can certainly respect them. I/we knew going in that you wouldn't be in support of this proposal, so your comments aren't really much of a surprise.

The UN still has something to unite over in this proposal, I think. Access to international works that may be rare in a particular nation, for one.

Or what about the opportunities that the ULEN will provide? The museum curator of the Great Mousebumplonian Museum is already making plans for where we could place international works, should this proposal pass. My people love learning about other cultures and lifestyles, and look forward to the opportunities that the ULEN can provide.

Anyhow, like I said before, I respect your opinion and I don't anticipate being able to convert you. Still, thanks for sharing your concerns.

I wasn't going to reply to this, as I have said what I said and that's pretty much it, but one thing sparked my interest...



...just as there would be for individual nation/city/regional libraries.

We don't charge people to use libraries. It comes out of the money the government collects (taxes mostly). So that anyone can wander in to a library, borrow a book and read it whether they can afford to buy it or not.

I thought that's how all libraries worked?

In comparisson to the previous resolution, this seems even more pointless. You have created what amounts to putting books on the web, and now you want to charge people to read them.

How is this going to affect book sales? Is reading it on the web going to be cheaper than buying the book (given the costs included in getting on line, subscribing to the library and so forth) and if not why bother with this at all?

The Previous Global Library resolution had problems, but it gave the UN something to unite over and something to aim for - a chance to develop this technology. All this does is create a new version of amazon.com where you don't even get to take the books home.

I can't vote for this, and if it passes I have no desire to be a part of it and will try to get it repealed forthwith.

First, many things are "on the web". Usually, copyrighted material is either already bound by a subscription fee or is posted illegally. Further, most material "on the web" is only minimally organized, and difficult to sort through. I think that many people would gladly pay just to have information properly indexed and guaranteed available on demand.

Second, the original resolution was a morass of misspellings and technology-by-resolution, something that particularly annoys me. If the goal of a resolution is to promote technological advancement, write something to that effect. Don't just throw random technobabble into a proposal and call it a day. Anybody can do that. Crafting something that has both practical use and aesthetic value is tough, which is why so many proposals never see the light of day. This is one of the shining examples of a thought-out mix of realism and idealism, and I think it's absolutely silly to be comparing it to a site to purchase books.

Third, I see the purpose of this Universal Library as facilitating exchange of literature and documents that would otherwise escape most nation's attention. For example, FT nations, despite relative ease of interstellar communication, would likely not search far-flung foreign databases for information, but with the UL, that information is all centralized. It would help to propel scientific collaboration and advancement. The UL has never been about, in my mind, ensuring that the known Universe is able to read the latest Kriovalian tabloids (which are very similar to other tabloids - primarily dealing with the leadership's sex lives, conspiracy theories, and the latest sighting of BatBoy), though if people want to, they can.

Fourth and finally, national governments are free to determine how costs are distributed. Some may charge individuals for their usage while others will incorporate the UL into the annual budget (with a tax raise to fund it). Other governments may opt for limited access or may not participate at all.

We don't charge people to use libraries. It comes out of the money the government collects (taxes mostly). So that anyone can wander in to a library, borrow a book and read it whether they can afford to buy it or not.

So, in a way, you charge people to use libraries. You raise taxes to fund them. There's absolutely nothing wrong with this, in my eyes. It's the way Krioval plans to deal with the ULC/ULEN when it passes. We'll raise taxes to cover any additional expense, which we expect will be minimal.

I wasn't going to reply to this, as I have said what I said and that's pretty much it, but one thing sparked my interest...




We don't charge people to use libraries. It comes out of the money the government collects (taxes mostly). So that anyone can wander in to a library, borrow a book and read it whether they can afford to buy it or not.

I thought that's how all libraries worked?
There's a big difference between a physical library and an electronic one.
You can't just make these things available on the web for free - the publishing industry would collapse.

This has been discussed in an earlier thread.

We don't charge people to use libraries. It comes out of the money the government collects (taxes mostly). So that anyone can wander in to a library, borrow a book and read it whether they can afford to buy it or not.

I thought that's how all libraries worked?
Yeah, and that's how this one would work. The government is going to pay money for the annual membership fee, which will likely be collected through taxes. What part of the proposal says otherwise to you?

Okay... I got scared off from this project by DLE when he mentioned the absurd cost, but I researched a bit more and scratched a little deeper. The annual cost is actually going to be rather cheap, so I'm 98 percent behind this proposal as of now. I still have issues with the U.N. central headquarters bit, I think that's just a region and not a physical place to be singled out.

If you need specifics on the cost of bandwidth, I can provide them - but it's a bit more math than I can handle right now (at around midnight) if I want to explain it properly. To just sort of generalize, a cheap price is 10 cents a gig a month and it gets a little cheaper the bigger you get.

Okay... I got scared off from this project by DLE when he mentioned the absurd cost, but I researched a bit more and scratched a little deeper. The annual cost is actually going to be rather cheap, so I'm 98 percent behind this proposal as of now.
Startup costs will likely be a bit higher initially, but I'm sure the ULCEC can work in some sort of "activation fee" for nations that join later and get to skirt those costs initially. Didn't think that was worth mentioning, and I think that the educational (both intellectually and culturally speaking) are well worth the cost and effort of the ULC. :) Glad to hear that you're almost 100% behind it. I'd hate to see your repeal of the original GLC proposal not be followed up by an proper replacement.

I still have issues with the U.N. central headquarters bit, I think that's just a region and not a physical place to be singled out.
Just going off what I was told by a mod, I believe. I'm honestly not sure myself, as it isn't "officially listed" in any particular document. But, my understanding is that said region houses the UN HQ for RP purposes, which is sufficient, I'd think.

If you need specifics on the cost of bandwidth, I can provide them - but it's a bit more math than I can handle right now (at around midnight) if I want to explain it properly. To just sort of generalize, a cheap price is 10 cents a gig a month and it gets a little cheaper the bigger you get.
I'm not sure how much bandwidth we'd be using, so I'd prefer not to get into actual numbers. A lot of that depends on how much we have archived, how often it is accessed, how many nations are involved, etc. Too many variables to really come up with a workable, realistic number. Personally, I think it's something that should, again, be left to the ULCEC if/after the proposal is passed.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v488/frisbeeteria/edited.jpg formerly: Submitted: Universal Library Coalition

The proposal is now on the floor of the UN General Assembly, and the title has been changed to reflect that.

This is the first resolution the Democratic Republic of Clamydea will vote on, so forgive any ignorance of procedure, please. On the issue:

We support the idea of a universal library, but are particulary concerned about the following:

"ALLOWS FOR SUBMISSIONS from individual member nations on the condition that permission has been granted by the publisher and/or author to archive the work within the Universal Library. Authors of archived material within the Universal Library will receive an annual subscription payment from the ULC in return for allowing wide access to their work. Any submissions that violate copyright laws will be rejected."

This passage is far too generic and open to interpretation. Any submissions shouls be made on a non-profit basis. Submitters understand the are placing their work in an archive, not a book store. It is their choice to submit. The passage doesn't define "submissions" nor does it indicate when or how the library might reject submissions. As read, one gets the impression that the students of Mrs. O'leary's 4th grade class at Clamydea Elementary could submit their "what I did on my summer vacation" essays and expect a.) they will be archived and b.) the students will receive pay.

Again, Clamydea strongly supports the idea of a universal library. However, with this passage intact, we will not vote for the proposal.

I found contradictory the fact that your resolution provides for content filters for citizenry of nations who choose to use such filters, yet it is said to provide for cultural awareness. I also agree with an earlier post stating that the paragraph providing for subscription fees being payed to authors for their work is too general and defeats the purpose of having a centralized library. Therefore, i chose not to endorse this resolution.

If you have to resubmit, I recommend altering the section about the "central server" living in the UN HQ to "control of the system will be vested in IT staff maintained as part of the UN HQ organization and its assets will be sited at locations chosen by this staff to minimize the cost and/or optimize the overall function of said system."

Otherwise, you're legally locked into the "big hulking box" model of network design instead of, say, a distributed network. Besides, laws should specify what, not how, unless the how really matters.

My 2¢ worth...

Our country is against this because of this:

"THE UNITED NATIONS -
CALLS for the formation of a Universal Library Coalition (ULC). The Universal Library provided by the ULC will be internet-based and may archive any published form of the written word including, but not limited to, fiction and nonfiction books, constitutions and laws from around the world, newspapers, magazines, and professional journals."

We have copyright laws and this would be illegal for any of our authors work to be published.

If you would like to read any work from Therenationalist you will have to buy a copy. or go to a physical library to read.

I am surprised to find complaints about copyright issues in this proposal considering that the author or publisher must volunteer works to the UL, and even then, that person (or group of people) will be compensated for the contribution. Certainly if one is extremely concerned about copyright issues, one can wait until a copyright expires before submitting effectively public work.

As for the physical server versus distributed network, I could see the ULCEC dealing with that issue should it become burdensome. For the record, Krioval intends to download the entire library or at least high-traffic portions to a subsidiary server on the network. Naturally, this activity will be monitored by the ULCEC so we don't contravene the resolution (should it pass, of course).

This passage is far too generic and open to interpretation. Any submissions shouls be made on a non-profit basis. Submitters understand the are placing their work in an archive, not a book store. It is their choice to submit. The passage doesn't define "submissions" nor does it indicate when or how the library might reject submissions. As read, one gets the impression that the students of Mrs. O'leary's 4th grade class at Clamydea Elementary could submit their "what I did on my summer vacation" essays and expect a.) they will be archived and b.) the students will receive pay.

Again, Clamydea strongly supports the idea of a universal library. However, with this passage intact, we will not vote for the proposal.
Thank you very much for sharing your thoughts with regards to this resolution. The clause about receiving compensation was mentioned when a number of nations expressed concerns about decimating the publishing industry with such a resolution. (after all, if people can view all the works for free online, why would they bother to buy any books?)

If you read a bit closer, you should note that only published works will be archived. This would nullify any "what I did on my summer vacation" essays, unless a great number were bound together in a book of some sort with a mass release to the public. Additionally, the subscription fee is not relevant for works in the public domain, which is where I believe such essays (as well as governmental laws and literature) would fall. Also, the individual nation will be submitting works - not the individual citizens themselves. Of course, your nation can choose to submit your works in whatever manner you find most productive - have a committee that will select works, allow citizens to submit works for consideration, etc. The selection over which eligible works will be submitted is left in the hands of the individual nation.

Still, thank you very much for sharing your thoughts. If you have any additional questions or concerns, please feel free to share them. Thanks. :D

Mrs. O'leary's 4th grade class at Clamydea Elementary could submit their "what I did on my summer vacation" essays and expect a.) they will be archived and b.) the students will receive pay.

The resolution says that the ULC will "archive any published form of the written word". I take that to mean that only work which has been deemed of a high enough quality to be published will be archived, so the ULC won't be cluttered up with stuff that isn't worth reading (like the web is today :mad: ).

We have copyright laws and this would be illegal for any of our authors work to be published.

The resolution states that work will be published "in accordance with copyright laws".

What about those nations which can't afford to pay the fee for the UN Library.

Should they be blocked the access to this "public domain library".

I don't think so. This is the reason why I sugest the addition of an amendment to this proposal by which poorest countries shall be given free access to the knowledge until they leave the status of "poor country".

I believe that this resolution must be voted down on the basis that it is by its very construction attempting to keep information and the power which it provides only within the member nations which can afford to participate. The costs include building their own facilities and paying for the cost of participation. This is wrong, and ultimately detrimental to those who it would seek to help, by creating a way for rich nations to consolidate their knowledge while excluding those nations unable to serve their own people, little lone pay the fees for this "service". In the end, poorer nations will be worse off, and larger, more economicly powerful nations will consilidate their level of expertise against those nations wanting to rise out of poverty.

I found contradictory the fact that your resolution provides for content filters for citizenry of nations who choose to use such filters, yet it is said to provide for cultural awareness.
The filters are to prevent censorship on the part of the ULCEC and ULC. All content that has been published has the potential to be archived, regardless of explicit sexual situation, graphic violence, adult language, etc. However, if you don't want your citizenry exposed to certain things (say, you have a problem with the word "beaver" ... or whatever), you can choose to **** out that work, or even restrict access to beaver-based works ... or whatever.

The UN and UN-originated groups should not be censoring, but there are some topics that certain nations don't want their people to have access to. No nation will ever be *forced* to use such content filters - my nation isn't planning to use them at all.

And the cultural awareness is more notable through the ULEN, although clearly through seeing works from other nations (either translated, or in the native language) would expose people to a new culture. I don't see how content filters would affect exposure to *all* works for *all* other nations.

I also agree with an earlier post stating that the paragraph providing for subscription fees being payed to authors for their work is too general and defeats the purpose of having a centralized library. Therefore, i chose not to endorse this resolution.
OOC: All libraries pay *someone* for use of works housed in a library collection. (at least in the US, which is where my only library knowledge comes from) Not paying authors of copyrighted works would be a copyright violation - and is therefore illegal under Resolution #45 UCPL.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts and concerns. If you have anything else to say, feel free to speak up. :D

If you have to resubmit, I recommend altering the section about the "central server" living in the UN HQ to "control of the system will be vested in IT staff maintained as part of the UN HQ organization and its assets will be sited at locations chosen by this staff to minimize the cost and/or optimize the overall function of said system."

Otherwise, you're legally locked into the "big hulking box" model of network design instead of, say, a distributed network. Besides, laws should specify what, not how, unless the how really matters.

My 2¢ worth...
Each participating nation will maintain a backup of their national data archived within the ULC.
That should help minimize costs and optimize function to some extent. I'd think that individual citizens would be most likely to access their own national works thorugh the ULC. Not that international works won't be accessed, of course. Also, these servers should provide a backup of all the necessary information.

Still, in the event of a needed resubmission, I'm not against changing the wording of bits. I'll have another look at this later, as needed. :)

Thanks for the comments/suggestions. :D

What about those nations which can't afford to pay the fee for the UN Library.

Should they be blocked the access to this "public domain library".

I don't think so. This is the reason why I sugest the addition of an amendment to this proposal by which poorest countries shall be given free access to the knowledge until they leave the status of "poor country".
I personally don't think that the cost will be *that* large. I am against *free* access for poor countries, but I would be willing to consider having a "sliding scale" (of sort) based on economic prosperity to determine payment. (or perhaps just a reduced fee for those who are in the lower 5% in terms of GDPs?)

That's all stuff that can be worked out by the GLCEC. There's so much detail in this resolution already, that I didn't want to make further specifications. It's certainly something to consider - but couldn't some funding for the ULC membership fee come from a nation's education budget?

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I hope that helps explain things a little bit. :D

I believe that this resolution must be voted down on the basis that it is by its very construction attempting to keep information and the power which it provides only within the member nations which can afford to participate. The costs include building their own facilities and paying for the cost of participation. This is wrong, and ultimately detrimental to those who it would seek to help, by creating a way for rich nations to consolidate their knowledge while excluding those nations unable to serve their own people, little lone pay the fees for this "service". In the end, poorer nations will be worse off, and larger, more economicly powerful nations will consilidate their level of expertise against those nations wanting to rise out of poverty.
Re: the fees necessary for the ULC, see the above post.

Re: "keep information and power only within ULC member nations would put them at a disadvantage" (to paraphrase) - I agree, which is why the ULC is open to *all* NS nations, not just UN member nations. Just because a nation is not in the UN (whether it's for philosophical differences, economic problems, etc.) does not mean that they don't deserve to have access to the published works archived there.

I don't think that nations will be restricted from joining because of any sort of steep annual fee. Yes, there is a fee, but I think that - in terms of the annual budget - it will only be a minimal fraction of a percent. It's hard to work out actual numbers without having hard numbers to work with, but I'll see if I can't work something out later.

Thanks for sharing your concerns. I hope my comments helped to some extent. :D

The bill claims to only effect those that choose to have it accepted as part of their government. How do you propose to do this since the game will automatically adjust your gov with this new info after it has been passed & approved. By forcing this upon our gov your are raising my nations taxes for the benefits of others whose poor economies have driven their populations into poverty. Stimulating business is the only way to get them off the streets not by forcing social programs upon the work. This legislation just l9ike the UNWODC will raise taxes in every nation except the poorest who have brought themselves to that through bad welfare policies in the first place.
This seems like feel good legislation on the outside but read closer & you will see it is just an attempt for big gov to assert economic control over our nations. Trust in small goverment & let society do what is necessary to improve society.

I continue to oppose this, as I have in the past. I do believe every single issue I raised has gone unaddressed by this version. From security to unappreciation, and including this censorship issue that has recently been raised, this proposal fails on every level. Do us all a favor, and never submit it again once it fails to pass.

By forcing this upon our gov your are raising my nations taxes for the benefits of others whose poor economies have driven their populations into poverty.
How are your taxes being raised for the benefit of poorer economies? Yes, your taxes will likely rise with the passing of this resolution (although not too much as it only has a "mild" impact), but I don't see the connection with "benefits of others whose poor economies have driven their populations into poverty." ?

I'd appreciate it if you could cite examples and specific points within the resolution before making any more blanket statements such as those that you've already made. You're certainly welcome to your opinion, but I'd like to know what you're referencing, so that I can give an appropriate response. Thanks.

OOC: All libraries pay *someone* for use of works housed in a library collection. (at least in the US, which is where my only library knowledge comes from) Not paying authors of copyrighted works would be a copyright violation - and is therefore illegal under Resolution #45 UCPL.

The problem I have is that this is an internet based library. That makes all the difference!

Doesn't a traditional library pay a 'library distribution fee' to the publisher for each of it's books/works - once. It is based on the physical item, that will be available through the library. As it is now, access to the work is limited to the physical paid-for item for as long as the library own it.

An free internet based library, that doesn't compensate the property rights holders, could cripple the publishing industry by offering unlimited access to the archive by all members all the time. The answer is not to give the annual payment to all publisher/writers for all works. That will completely bankrupt the system and is unmanageable.

Instead of trying to give everything to everyone subsidized by the government, the global library should only contain works that are considered in the Public Domain (Resolution #60), or are given to the ULC by the publishers/writers. It is likely that many works will be "donated" to the ULC, for exposure to the writers across borders, to boost sales of new releases.

Don't forget, there are many types of libraries, and this one has not been defined. There are medical, scientific, law, business, special interest, entertainment, etc... The basic purpose of a library in the US is to educate and entertain the masses. This can be done with the Public Domain and donations!

I continue to oppose this, as I have in the past. I do believe every single issue I raised has gone unaddressed by this version. From security to unappreciation, and including this censorship issue that has recently been raised, this proposal fails on every level. Do us all a favor, and never submit it again once it fails to pass.
Wow, I have to admit that I am surprised at your vigorous distaste for the resolution. Yes, it is slightly adapted from the version to which you said "I would very much like to applaud this resolution." [ quoted post (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=8255274&postcount=47) ] However, I would like to address all the previous concerns you have voiced, as well as the ones that you stated here.

You protested the ULEN - saying a couple different things. The biggest objections, as I remember them, were that of security and lack of protection for historical works. I'd like to make a couple points in response.
--No longer are the words "rare or ancient" in that section of the proposal, with reference to the works that will be a part of the ULEN. It states, instead, that it will consist of just a collection of works from other nations. As Krioval has stated before (and will probably be able to state much more eloquently than me later), the pieces do not need to be ancient, historical, or even particularly valuable - other than the sense that they are a work that likely illustrates the contributing nation in some way. By no means are nations being encouraged to contribute rare, fragible, or valuable pieces to the ULEN. That should minimize the risk of having such things stolen (or the ill after-effects should anything be stolen) and the risk of having such things broken in transit. So there is one section that was adapted, in line with your objections and suggestions.

Further, I'm puzzled by your understandable objections to the ULEN by another statement that you made later. [ see here (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=8258936&postcount=54) ] I won't quote it again here, as it's longer than it needs to be and really isn't in need of quoting here.

The other thing that you protested, with regards to the ULEN, was the fact that works cannot be properly appreciated outside of their original culture. You suggested a system of unrestricted travel, to allow works to stay in their native land while still allowing for cultural immersion. I felt that such a suggestion has logistical problems, and would not be feasible for the economically unfortunate nations and/or citizens. Additionally, have you ever considered the fact that some authors would feel *honored* to have a copy of their work showcased around the world? Of course, cultural differences between our nations may not make that the case within Foglorn, but many authors within Mousebumples are already creating copies of their manuscripts for participation in the ULEN.

Your concerns were noted, and I believe that they were addressed. Yes, the ULEN is still a part - which I understand that you were against. I understand your points, and I believe that they have been sufficiently addressed. However, if you have other concerns, or if I did not adequately cover your problems with the resolution, feel free to speak up once more.

Thanks for posting.

I agree with this proposal. Do you know why?

Not too long ago, there was 666 votes against this proposal! That means that Satan wants this proposal to fail! Therefore, I have no choice but to support it.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v721/Nanakaland/666.png

;)

Seriously, though, this is a nice proposal. Much better than that overturned Global Library. At least this one is realistic. Besides, if there is some bad clause that is recognized after the passing of this resolution, all we need to do is repeal it. No worries there.

Doesn't a traditional library pay a 'library distribution fee' to the publisher for each of it's books/works - once. It is based on the physical item, that will be available through the library. As it is now, access to the work is limited to the physical paid-for item for as long as the library own it.
Perhaps, but since there are not a limited number of "copies" of particular works, I felt that an annual fee (perhaps with a larger initial payment, and then just a lower maintainance payment later? that's to be determined by the ULCEC, of course) was a fairer approach.

An free internet based library, that doesn't compensate the property rights holders, could cripple the publishing industry by offering unlimited access to the archive by all members all the time. The answer is not to give the annual payment to all publisher/writers for all works. That will completely bankrupt the system and is unmanageable.

Instead of trying to give everything to everyone subsidized by the government, the global library should only contain works that are considered in the Public Domain (Resolution #60), or are given to the ULC by the publishers/writers. It is likely that many works will be "donated" to the ULC, for exposure to the writers across borders, to boost sales of new releases.
Works in the public domain do not have subscription fees, as you've obviously noted. I wanted the ULC to include "everything," to some extent. Of course, publishers/authors can still decline to have their work archived, for whatever reason. The ULC will not simply match whatever amount they request/demand in exchange for archival. A set amount/scale based on access or anticipated demand will be determined by the ULCEC once the amount of interested nations is determined, so as to set a membership fee that *will not* bankrupt the system. Yes, there are a lot of works that could be archived, but I'd like to think that everything will begin by having national govenrments only submitting the more worthy pieces, rather than everything that has been published by Joe Schmoe off the street.

Don't forget, there are many types of libraries, and this one has not been defined. There are medical, scientific, law, business, special interest, entertainment, etc... The basic purpose of a library in the US is to educate and entertain the masses. This can be done with the Public Domain and donations!
I was, again, hoping to have a more expansive library. Understandably, adding everything in all different areas at once is a bit too much. Still, I see no reason why it can't be an all-purposes library, along the lines of the OOC US Library of Congress. If we really want to work at educating the public, that's probably the best route to take.

Thanks again for your comments. I just noticed them over on the Texas board as well, so I'll probably be c/p'ing something of this nature there as well. Any further questions or clarifications or complaints, speak up! :D

I agree with this proposal. Do you know why?

Not too long ago, there was 666 votes against this proposal! That means that Satan wants this proposal to fail! Therefore, I have no choice but to support it.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v721/Nanakaland/666.png

;)

Seriously, though, this is a nice proposal. Much better than that overturned Global Library. At least this one is realistic. Besides, if there is some bad clause that is recognized after the passing of this resolution, all we need to do is repeal it. No worries there.
Well, if Satan wants it to fail, *everyone* should be voting in favor of it! Hee hee hee ...

On a more serious note, thanks for the support. And line voids might be a fun addition to the UN - but likely too complicated to ever be seriously considered as a future game mechanics change. Still, I think that the good in this resolution far outweighs whatever bad people might find in it. Of course, I'm more than a little biased on the subject ... :D

First, to head off some of the complaints about the funding, even public domain works require some baseline level of funding to make available - we need to pay for indexing and maintenance of the collection. Also, for copyrighted works, the author/publisher would likely negotiate the fee for hosting the work in the library; newer or larger material would likely require a higher payment than older or extremely slim volumes.

Second, participation is as voluntary as it can be. ULC membership is voluntary. ULEN membership is voluntary. Publishers or authors submitting works are voluntarily able to submit works. There are no UN imposed restrictions on who may or may not view the UL collection in a given subscribing nation.

Third, in terms of library "categories", I think the phrase "Universal Library" refers to more than its geographic (and interstellar) range; it refers to the contents as well. Thus, everything from scientific literature to the latest Kriovalian romance novel ("The Many Loves of Darvek Tyvok" is currently the bestseller - and is based in truth!) can be accessed. From my perspective, that's the UL's greatest strength. A person can theoretically access anything from anywhere in the Universe (in a subscribing nation, of course).

DETAILS that the ULC and ULEN will be incorporated as non-profit organizations. Additionally, the ULC and ULEN will be entirely funded by participating nations, regardless of their membership in the United Nations. Thus, no taxing authority shall be created by the passage of this resolution. Non-members are free to form their own libraries within their own borders and are in no way restricted from sharing information with other nations around the world.Well, if you repeal the UN Taxation ban proposal, then the funding would be more realistic. Though I don't see that coming any time soon. People see "tax" and think, "Evils moneygrabbers they ares. Keep aways from our precious fundses." Though a voluntary tax would make sense. That's another proposal idea, though. The one problem with any resolution is the funding.

My question is:

How does this proposal get enough money without taxation?
I understand that you will find some inexpensive ways to do things, but basically what is the funding of this Universal Library Coalition? It says, "Additionally, the ULC and ULEN will be entirely funded by participating nations." My question is how?

How would the annual payments be taken for this U.L.C.? Would we have to pay Real World money? Or would it be aken out of our Nation's money?

The Grand Duchy of YGSM is proud to add our name to the endorsements for this fine proposal.

We hope to be regional delegate before voting ends, and hope to swing all the votes of our region in favor.

Even though I am somewhat, shall we say, crazy, I approve of this proposal. My citizens are mostly idiots and if we introduce this bill to our nations, people will read more than ever. I am sad that people do not agree. For those who do not agree think of the benifiets of this bill! Sadly my delegate has not voted on this subject but I am strongly encouraging him to do so.

How does this proposal get enough money without taxation?
I understand that you will find some inexpensive ways to do things, but basically what is the funding of this Universal Library Coalition? It says, "Additionally, the ULC and ULEN will be entirely funded by participating nations." My question is how?
My understanding of the UN Taxation Ban is that the UN cannot directly tax the citizens of UN member nations. It does not (and cannot) prohibit UN member nations from taxing their own people - that would be a chance in game mechanics. Besides, my nation is at 100% tax, and if that's what the proposal was talking about, that wouldn't be happening.

Nations can get the money to pay for the annual fee however they'd like. If you have a money tree in your nation, you can collect money from there. If you have a budget surplus, that might be a method to use. Or, if you don't have enough money at the moment, you can always increase taxes.

I hope that helps explain it a bit better. :)

How would the annual payments be taken for this U.L.C.? Would we have to pay Real World money? Or would it be aken out of our Nation's money?
It would be taken out of your nation's money, which you can gather to pay by any of the methods listed in the above post. I hope that helps explain things a little bit.

Even though I am somewhat, shall we say, crazy, I approve of this proposal. My citizens are mostly idiots and if we introduce this bill to our nations, people will read more than ever. I am sad that people do not agree. For those who do not agree think of the benifiets of this bill! Sadly my delegate has not voted on this subject but I am strongly encouraging him to do so.
Thank you very much for your support. Of course, if he has any questions, he can certainly contact me. I believe strongly in this resolution, and I don't think that there's much of anything that can be said that I haven't been able to refute. (there was the security issue, which I'll have to look into a bit more ... perhaps more of an internet-based library on an intranet? I'll have to check that out later tonight)

The Grand Duchy of YGSM is proud to add our name to the endorsements for this fine proposal.

We hope to be regional delegate before voting ends, and hope to swing all the votes of our region in favor.
Glad to see that you're back, and still alive and kicking - even if it is under another guise. And good luck regaining your delegacy by the time this one ends. Still, delegate or not, your support means a lot.

Thanks again, both of you! :D
~Lizzy~

My understanding of the UN Taxation Ban is that the UN cannot directly tax the citizens of UN member nations. It does not (and cannot) prohibit UN member nations from taxing their own people - that would be a chance in game mechanics. Besides, my nation is at 100% tax, and if that's what the proposal was talking about, that wouldn't be happening.

Nations can get the money to pay for the annual fee however they'd like. If you have a money tree in your nation, you can collect money from there. If you have a budget surplus, that might be a method to use. Or, if you don't have enough money at the moment, you can always increase taxes.

I hope that helps explain it a bit better. :)Thank you for your explaination. I now voted yes on your glorious proposal. :)

:rolleyes: I have been reading over the current posts in this string. And I am finding myself disagreeing with the idea. I am not going to state examples from the resolution. Though, I will tell you my feelings about this issue.

The first thing that comes to my mind is that of my nation's people. We are working hard to develop our nation into a strong force. However, what we feel is that we need to have a regulated school district( I don't know if we have this or not.) and system that trains our children to be the best and strongest that they can be. And we cannot do that if we enact a centralized library system.

My second feeling is on what is going to be in the ULC and ULEN. How will the partcipating nations know what is in full inventory of these at any given moment? And what are the guidelines going to be for any given piece to be included? These are important questions, because I woul like my nation to be able to discover what nations are powerful, their current events, and how they came to the point that they are currently at.

Next is about the taxation problem. Many people have a problem with this part of the resolution. And so do I. I agreed with the UNWODC, because of what I felt it could bring to my nation. And that is why I am disagreeing with this issue. No matter that the taxation will be for "member nations;" it sounds to me as if all of our nations will be taxed for this program. And that is not what I want.

My final issue is on the control of the ULC. Who, exactly, will be a part of this resolution's administration? The United Nations? Or "member nations?" If it is "member nations; then, will it be up to all of us? Or just certain ones? Or just a single nation? This is another important issue that I need addressed before I make my final decision.

In conclusion, I have a bad feeling on this at the moment. And will vote against this resolution by Monday. Unless you can address these issues and satisfy me. :headbang:

Wow, lots of points to address. Let's see what we've got ...

The first thing that comes to my mind is that of my nation's people. We are working hard to develop our nation into a strong force. However, what we feel is that we need to have a regulated school district( I don't know if we have this or not.) and system that trains our children to be the best and strongest that they can be. And we cannot do that if we enact a centralized library system.
How can you not do both? If anything, I feel that the addition of the UL will *add* to the education of my people. The UL can provide exposure to works from other nations that they might never have seen otherwise. Additionally, cultural education is important, should you have any citizens who wish to go into a international field (business, public relations, politics, etc.). The UL and the ULEN will both provide a good amount of cultural education for your people as well, I'd think.

My second feeling is on what is going to be in the ULC and ULEN. How will the partcipating nations know what is in full inventory of these at any given moment? And what are the guidelines going to be for any given piece to be included? These are important questions, because I woul like my nation to be able to discover what nations are powerful, their current events, and how they came to the point that they are currently at.
As stated in the proposal, the ULC is searchable by a number of different things - title, author, keywords, submitting nation, etc. The guidelines, I believe, were also stated in the resolution - all published works that are in the public domain are eligible to be submitted. All published works still under copyright may be submitted with the approval of the holder of the rights to the work. I know that my nation is planning on submitting our constitution, should this resolution pass. Additionally, the Daily Treemouse, my nation's daily newspaper, has expressed interest in having their work included within the ULC. Really, what is all included is up to individual ULC member nations - although, I would think that if you had a request from a particular nation, they would be more than happy to oblige.

Next is about the taxation problem. Many people have a problem with this part of the resolution. And so do I. I agreed with the UNWODC, because of what I felt it could bring to my nation. And that is why I am disagreeing with this issue. No matter that the taxation will be for "member nations;" it sounds to me as if all of our nations will be taxed for this program. And that is not what I want.
The UN is not allowed to tax member nations, according to a previously passed resolution - UN Taxation Ban. Your nation, should you choose to join, will be charged a fee of some sort. How you plan of getting the money to pay said annual fee is completely up to you and your people. (taxes are an option, but not the only option; you could use donations from your people, or have a fundraising event of some sort, both cases in which the giving of money is completely voluntary)

My final issue is on the control of the ULC. Who, exactly, will be a part of this resolution's administration? The United Nations? Or "member nations?" If it is "member nations; then, will it be up to all of us? Or just certain ones? Or just a single nation? This is another important issue that I need addressed before I make my final decision.
The ULCEC will control the ULC. The ULCEC will consist of 15 individuals selected from ULC member nations. They'll be elected/reelected every 3 years. The exact makeup of said ULCEC has not yet been determined (i.e. UN member nations v. non-UN member nations), but should this resolution pass, a vote will be taken from all interested parties to determine the makeup. And, of course, they will consult with other ULC member nations (both UN and non-UN) to determine their decisions on various matters that are brought before them.

In conclusion, I have a bad feeling on this at the moment. And will vote against this resolution by Monday. Unless you can address these issues and satisfy me. :headbang:
I hope that my responses helped. Should you have any further questions or concerns, please feel free to voice them. :D

Yes I would have to agree with Mousebumples on Drakonic Symbiosis's contradictory stance. Drakonic Symbiosis, Are you implying that one can learn better by having less educational resources available to them? Either way no problem, I just hope that you come around to voting for the resolution like I did.

How can you not do both? If anything, I feel that the addition of the UL will *add* to the education of my people. The UL can provide exposure to works from other nations that they might never have seen otherwise. Additionally, cultural education is important, should you have any citizens who wish to go into a international field (business, public relations, politics, etc.). The UL and the ULEN will both provide a good amount of cultural education for your people as well, I'd think.

Well, in that matter, I choose to have only governmentally approved material available to the populace of Drakonic Symbiosis. And I feel that it is only justified within my nation and the future that I have envisioned for it; that International Work should be given very little leniancy to do as their COs see fit. They would work against the needs of the people and government of my nation. And so, my government would need to have full control and access to what is available to my people.

As stated in the proposal, the ULC is searchable by a number of different things - title, author, keywords, submitting nation, etc. The guidelines, I believe, were also stated in the resolution - all published works that are in the public domain are eligible to be submitted. All published works still under copyright may be submitted with the approval of the holder of the rights to the work. I know that my nation is planning on submitting our constitution, should this resolution pass. Additionally, the Daily Treemouse, my nation's daily newspaper, has expressed interest in having their work included within the ULC. Really, what is all included is up to individual ULC member nations - although, I would think that if you had a request from a particular nation, they would be more than happy to oblige.

My nation's government will not care about any of the other nation's constitutions, newspapers, books, etc. It will just care about who is in power, what they are doing, their military, their space programs, and some other stuff. All of which would allow my government to make better decisions. However, I am concerned with having a personal amount of leeway at what is viewed within my nation and the ability to censor pieces that I do not feel is appropriate.

The UN is not allowed to tax member nations, according to a previously passed resolution - UN Taxation Ban. Your nation, should you choose to join, will be charged a fee of some sort. How you plan of getting the money to pay said annual fee is completely up to you and your people. (taxes are an option, but not the only option; you could use donations from your people, or have a fundraising event of some sort, both cases in which the giving of money is completely voluntary)

Well, without taxation, how else would my nation be able to get the funds? How do you go about setting up donation and/or fundraising drives? It seems like you would not be able to do so within your nation. Through what I have seen with this game. Though, I am newer to the game.

The ULCEC will control the ULC. The ULCEC will consist of 15 individuals selected from ULC member nations. They'll be elected/reelected every 3 years. The exact makeup of said ULCEC has not yet been determined (i.e. UN member nations v. non-UN member nations), but should this resolution pass, a vote will be taken from all interested parties to determine the makeup. And, of course, they will consult with other ULC member nations (both UN and non-UN) to determine their decisions on various matters that are brought before them.

And what you have said is that, any member nation that is not on the ULCEC has very little of a vote in what happens within the ULC. Yes, we can put in the opinions. But won't be able to enact in laws or rules that are going to be good for their personal nation. And perhaps the game. This does not seem right. If the ULCEC was made of representatives( from each member nation) that would be a better to work with. And would give a better range of voting options and opinions for/against each issue presented.

I hope that my responses helped. Should you have any further questions or concerns, please feel free to voice them. :D

They have somewhat. And I am looking at this proposal with two things in my mind. The first being is what would be best for my Nation. And the other being to see if this would work in the Real World, legally.

I did not understand this: "I know that my nation is planning on submitting our constitution, should this resolution pass. Additionally, the Daily Treemouse, my nation's daily newspaper, has expressed interest in having their work included within the ULC." How does your nation have its own newspaper and constitution? How would I go around to doing this for my nation?

Yes I would have to agree with Mousebumples on Drakonic Symbiosis's contradictory stance. Drakonic Symbiosis, Are you implying that one can learn better by having less educational resources available to them? Either way no problem, I just hope that you come around to voting for the resolution like I did.

Actually, what I am saying is that IT DEPENDS on what these "educational resources" are and what they contain. And if limitting these sources is what's required; then, that's what must be done. I do not want to see my nation's people being hurt by being allowed into the ULC.

I did not understand this: "I know that my nation is planning on submitting our constitution, should this resolution pass. Additionally, the Daily Treemouse, my nation's daily newspaper, has expressed interest in having their work included within the ULC." How does your nation have its own newspaper and constitution? How would I go around to doing this for my nation?

Well, to write a constitution, properly, you should convene a meeting of representatives from all parts of your nation. These people should gather in a central location, probably your capital. They should be well-versed in law and history, and should then write a document embodying the fundemental laws of your nation. Voila, a constitution!!!

As for a newspaper, if you want a government-subsidized one, simply pass laws creating one and appropriating for it. Otherwise, get a private investor to start one for your nation.

I hope this helps.

Armand Duvall
Belluelle Nuncio to the United Nations
On Behalf of Praetor Adrianus I, Lord of Belluelle

Well, to write a constitution, properly, you should convene a meeting of representatives from all parts of your nation. These people should gather in a central location, probably your capital. They should be well-versed in law and history, and should then write a document embodying the fundemental laws of your nation. Voila, a constitution!!!


I am sorry, but i am not getting it. The people within a nation are NPC( nonplayer characters). Right? And so I can do whatever I, personally, feel is right fpr them and my nation. And so, I don't understand it. However, I do get what you are sayng.

Let's say my government bans a book or an author or even an author in my nation committs treason and flees to some other nation...can my citizens have access to his outlawed work through this proposal effectively going over the government's head?

I am sorry, but i am not getting it. The people within a nation are NPC( nonplayer characters). Right? And so I can do whatever I, personally, feel is right fpr them and my nation. And so, I don't understand it. However, I do get what you are sayng.


(OOC- If you want to have a Constitution, you have to write it. Accredit it to whomever you wish, but you yourself must write the document. Ditto with your newspaper)

Let's say my government bans a book or an author or even an author in my nation committs treason and flees to some other nation...can my citizens have access to his outlawed work through this proposal effectively going over the government's head?

No. Your government can install a filter on the material to block access to the book. If you don't want your citizens reading "The Many Loves of Darvek Tyvok" (now Director of Kriovalian Domestic Security!), we feel you have the right to stop that. Of course, we don't like censorship or endorse it, but the option's definitely there.

As the concerns about access to specific content has already been addressed by Krioval (thanks!), I'll just skip over that part. Further questions/clarifications? Let me know.

my government would need to have full control and access to what is available to my people.
Your government would be able to determine what is appropriate and what is not. Some of the items included in the UL will be very educational, with a scientific or historical base. Other items might just be mindless romance novels with little redeeming educational value. What you want your people to be able to access is something that your own nation would be able to determine.

It will just care about who is in power, what they are doing, their military, their space programs, and some other stuff. All of which would allow my government to make better decisions. However, I am concerned with having a personal amount of leeway at what is viewed within my nation and the ability to censor pieces that I do not feel is appropriate.
I'm not quite sure what you mean by this paragraph. I'm sure the name of the leader(s) of each nation would be apparent through the UL, or even through ULC communications. The amount of information that nations choose to disclose about their military, space programs, etc. is completely up to them. If you don't anticipate disclosing such things on the UL yourself, I don't know if you can honestly expect other nations to do the same thing. And, of course, as your own nation is submitting the works about your nation, you could certainly pick and choose what you'd like to submit, and what you feel is too revealing of national security issues.

Well, without taxation, how else would my nation be able to get the funds? How do you go about setting up donation and/or fundraising drives? It seems like you would not be able to do so within your nation. Through what I have seen with this game. Though, I am newer to the game.***And the other being to see if this would work in the Real World, legally.

I did not understand this: "I know that my nation is planning on submitting our constitution, should this resolution pass. Additionally, the Daily Treemouse, my nation's daily newspaper, has expressed interest in having their work included within the ULC." How does your nation have its own newspaper and constitution? How would I go around to doing this for my nation?
A lot of that stuff is all RP issues. There's only so much that you can do within the *actual* NS game, but through RP stuff, you can make things more interesting. You can create individuals within your nation and/or government who act in particular ways, and such. We have a national newspaper, and a constitution, and governmental advisors, etc. It's all fun stuff to do, I think. :)

any member nation that is not on the ULCEC has very little of a vote in what happens within the ULC. Yes, we can put in the opinions. But won't be able to enact in laws or rules that are going to be good for their personal nation. And perhaps the game. This does not seem right. If the ULCEC was made of representatives( from each member nation) that would be a better to work with. And would give a better range of voting options and opinions for/against each issue presented.
I don't think it's reasonable to expect a group of millions of representatives to be able to come to an agreement on particular issues that may arise. Having a 15 member panel that is always present and able to discuss/deal with issues is a bit more feasible, in my opinion. Speaking OOC, think of the US government. Those of us who are not in the government don't have a direct influence on decisions that are made that affect us. However, through speaking with our representatives, and electing those that we think would serve us best, we do get a say. Rather than having hundreds of millions of people voting on each law in the Senate, we have 100 people making those decisions for us.

Again, I hope that some of this helped. Additional issues, concerns, questions, words of incredible praise? Speak up! :D

I don't think it's reasonable to expect a group of millions of representatives to be able to come to an agreement on particular issues that may arise. Having a 15 member panel that is always present and able to discuss/deal with issues is a bit more feasible, in my opinion. Speaking OOC, think of the US government. Those of us who are not in the government don't have a direct influence on decisions that are made that affect us. However, through speaking with our representatives, and electing those that we think would serve us best, we do get a say. Rather than having hundreds of millions of people voting on each law in the Senate, we have 100 people making those decisions for us.

Further, if the ULC wants to augment its numbers (may be necessary, to some extent), I don't read anything into the resolution that says it can't do so. It just says it starts off at 15. I wonder if this resolution could become any more fluid and still have teeth! :D

Further, if the ULC wants to augment its numbers (may be necessary, to some extent), I don't read anything into the resolution that says it can't do so. It just says it starts off at 15. I wonder if this resolution could become any more fluid and still have teeth! :D
I don't see why not? :D That being said, I think I'm off to bed ...

I'm not understanding people's objections to the costs of the project in this thread. Even if, due to the game mechanics, every UN nation has to contribute to the cost, the costs are going to be negligible.

My guess for how much this thing would cost to run would be no more than the equivalent of $5 million per year - and that is only initially when the ULC would have to be hiring a lot of staff to input all the works that countries are sending in (after the first few years, the costs of running it would become less as fewer staff would be needed to handle the smaller volume of data).

Spread between 40,000 member nations, that comes to $125 each. Even a country with the worst economy imaginable could manage to find $125 without having any problems.

The government of Telidia would like to congratulate the honourable member from Mousebumbles for a well-written resolution, though regrettably we cannot lend our support in favour. In our humble opinion this will allow a select group of individuals access to restrict or control information at will. One of the intangible safeguards free societies rely on is the very fact that information is disjointed and does not have one single reference point, thus making it very hard for the state to restrict information.

With that in mind the ULC no doubt good in intent, is ultimately controlled by the state since it is the state that will be paying for the project. Furthermore the individuals managing the project will have access to an information monopoly with no real guidelines on what they can or can’t do.

No doubt this resolution will be looked on very favourably by the many dictatorships or capitalist states within the UN. For example lets say a state bans all traditional information outlets and only allows its citizenry access to the ULC. Under this resolution they will then have the right to choose what information is provided through the ULC as specified in the Articles, the consequences of which is plainly obvious and alarming. Furthermore, in our humble opinion by allowing this clause we feel it is also contrary to the spirit of resolution 63, Freedom of Press. Article one of this resolution appeals to states to allow free access to information in this case, the press and now we are about to pass a resolution, which can seemingly be abused in direct contravention of that very article.

In closing we humbly request member states consider this resolution very carefully not just on it’s content, but also on the likely unfortunate outcome this may have for some of the many citizens within this body.

Respectfully
Lydia Cornwall, UN Ambassador
Office of UN Relations, Dept for Foreign Affairs
HM Government of Telidia

Well, Telidia, I am in agreement with you. Though for my own reasons. And I am considered by the United Nations as a Psychotic Dictatorship. As you may want your nation's information to be able to be accessed by anybody that pleases. I wish it to be controlled by only the government of my Nation. And I don't wish to see somebody else telling me what I can and cannot do with my nation's information.

In our humble opinion this will allow a select group of individuals access to restrict or control information at will. One of the intangible safeguards free societies rely on is the very fact that information is disjointed and does not have one single reference point, thus making it very hard for the state to restrict information.

I understand fears of abuse, but I don't see how the ULC, which only exists to expand access to information, is going to be harmful. As it stands, plenty of governments restrict information that gets to their citizens. Krioval does not approve of state censorship (or even more subtle forms of censorship), but ultimately, we don't see how the ULC could reduce informational access. The worst effect I see would be if a government maintained the same level of access to their citizens.

With that in mind the ULC no doubt good in intent, is ultimately controlled by the state since it is the state that will be paying for the project. Furthermore the individuals managing the project will have access to an information monopoly with no real guidelines on what they can or can’t do.

By this argument, all information publicly available is "controlled by the state" if a single tax dollar subsidizes its circulation. So public libraries are "controlled by the state". So are public schools, subsidized museums, and so forth. Not everything funded by a government is automatically censored, and if a government is sufficiently repressive, I would hazard to guess that the state already has a monopoly on information - the UL can't possibly make that any worse.

For example lets say a state bans all traditional information outlets and only allows its citizenry access to the ULC.

I'm pretty sure that other resolutions, including the Free Press resolution (#63) already attempt to deal with this issue. There is certainly no language in the ULC resolution that promotes or even suggests at such actions by a government, and any resolution can allow people to "find" things that aren't expressly forbidden within its text. Really, I could see governments ignoring the appeals for a free press in Res. 63, but they'd be going against the spirit of the resolution. Similarly, this resolution is designed to raise informational exchange, not restrict it, though an ardent enough censor could find a way around that.

Article one of this resolution appeals to states to allow free access to information in this case, the press and now we are about to pass a resolution, which can seemingly be abused in direct contravention of that very article.

As I mentioned above, the spirit of Res. 63 and this resolution are nearly identical. The goal is to expand the flow of information. There is nothing in the current resolution that would restrict press freedoms. The only restrictions placed on the ULC is that copyright law must be respected, which allows restriction by authors and publishers, not governments. Frankly, I could abuse Res. 63 by simply declaring "freedom of the press" while using various economic strategies to effectively bind it. The two resolutions are not opposed in spirit unless one reads something into one of them that is not there, in my finding.

In closing we humbly request member states consider this resolution very carefully not just on it’s content, but also on the likely unfortunate outcome this may have for some of the many citizens within this body.

I believe that you have not made a case as to how these people would be actively harmed; either they are already repressed, in which case this resolution can only help, or they are free, in which case this resolution can still only help.

Lord Jevo Telovar
Ambassador from Krioval
Regional Delegate of Chaotica

Well, Telidia, I am in agreement with you. Though for my own reasons. And I am considered by the United Nations as a Psychotic Dictatorship. As you may want your nation's information to be able to be accessed by anybody that pleases. I wish it to be controlled by only the government of my Nation. And I don't wish to see somebody else telling me what I can and cannot do with my nation's information.

And that is the beauty of this resolution. It can satisfy any government willing to partake of the UL. While our views on dictatorial governments, especially those willing to restrict information, is dim, Krioval finds that each nation has the right to predominate affairs occuring within their own borders. This resolution makes information available. What national governments do about that is up to them.

And that is the beauty of this resolution. It can satisfy any government willing to partake of the UL. While our views on dictatorial governments, especially those willing to restrict information, is dim, Krioval finds that each nation has the right to predominate affairs occuring within their own borders. This resolution makes information available. What national governments do about that is up to them.

Thank you for your kind reply, though I must respectfully disagree with your analysis. The point you make above in response to the honourable member from Drakonic Symbiosis is exactly my point with regard to the two differences between the two documents. The resolution “Freedom of Press” aims to enhance the free flow of information by urging States to do so, the UCL on the other hand does a complete about a face.

It says we accept that some States do restrict information to their citizens and for you we will make allowances and we the UN, will help you do it. Either the UN is for total freedom of information or it’s not, there simply cannot be a middle ground. I feel the spirit of the “Freedom of Press” resolution pretty much clarifies what the UN’s overall position is on freedom of information and I don’t feel it means having officers of this body help to restrict information to the citizens if it’s members. Let us not forget where this server will be located and who will be managing it. For the staff and officers of the UN to aid information restriction is simply not conducive to the spirit of freedom that exits within this body. Yes one could argue that it’s not the UN doing it’s the State in question, but UN officers will have to press the button and that in my humble opinion is an inherent conflict of interest.

Most Respectfully
Lydia Cornwall, UN Ambassador
Office of UN Relations, Dept for Foreign Affairs
HM Government of Telidia

The point you make above in response to the honourable member from Drakonic Symbiosis is exactly my point with regard to the two differences between the two documents. The resolution “Freedom of Press” aims to enhance the free flow of information by urging States to do so, the UCL on the other hand does a complete about a face.

Respectfully, I don't see how this resolution does what you describe. There is nothing in the text that specifically mentions content filters, and as far as Mousebumples and myself are concerned, we'd prefer nations not use them. But all the "urges" and "calls for" clauses in other resolutions do next to nothing in terms of guaranteeing real freedom. This resolution deals with the logistics of a Universal Library - setting it up and regulating its function. I see no reason that we'd suddenly abandon the mountain of UN resolutions that promote or direct various freedoms with the ULC, especially since there is nothing in the text of the resolution that even suggests at restricting freedoms.

While it's true that the resolution doesn't strongly compel nations to completely release any restrictions on information, it also doesn't encourage restrictions. Our primary reason for the neutrality of language on this point was that some countries are going to be against allowing pornography, for example, into their borders. The ULC doesn't authorize additional restrictions on information in such a case, though, because pornography was ostensibly unavailable before the ULC. If that is still an unsatisfactory explanation, I accept your reservations as they stand. The goal of this resolution was never to be a political statement on freedom or restriction of information, but instead a practical means to expand access of literary and cultural information.

Lord Jevo Telovar
Ambassador from Krioval
Regional Delegate of Chaotica

No. Your government can install a filter on the material to block access to the book. If you don't want your citizens reading "The Many Loves of Darvek Tyvok" (now Director of Kriovalian Domestic Security!), we feel you have the right to stop that. Of course, we don't like censorship or endorse it, but the option's definitely there.

Okay, that is fair.

But all the "urges" and "calls for" clauses in other resolutions do next to nothing in terms of guaranteeing real freedom. This resolution deals with the logistics of a Universal Library - setting it up and regulating its function. I see no reason that we'd suddenly abandon the mountain of UN resolutions that promote or direct various freedoms with the ULC, especially since there is nothing in the text of the resolution that even suggests at restricting freedoms.

In response to this last message from Krioval, I must interject that I can better understand what Telida is attempting to say. And what you have said has brought about a clarification on it. This resolution has not said anything about what the ULC can, actually, do. Well, other than gather information in a centralized location for nations to have easier access. Though, you have not specified what are the basic rules of the ULC. Other than cataloguing the available information. It doesn't have specific original laws set in place to dictate how the ULC must be begun and maintained.

And with the financial problem, you have not included in the future increase of costs. These increases of costs will come from the need to increase employment and to the maintenance of the ULC. Over time, the ULC will find that it will need to raise the amount of employees that it has. This will be from ever-increasing desires and orders to have more and more information placed into the ULC. And as these first determinations rise, the maintenance of the ULC will increase as well. Thus, will the cost of being a part of the ULC.

Membership fees are to be discussed and by the ULCEC, as stipulated in the resolution. Thus, the executive committee becomes responsible for making critical decisions; if they are undesirable, a new committee is elected every three years and can reverse or alter previous decisions.

Over time, the ULC will find that it will need to raise the amount of employees that it has. This will be from ever-increasing desires and orders to have more and more information placed into the ULC. And as these first determinations rise, the maintenance of the ULC will increase as well. Thus, will the cost of being a part of the ULC.

I would contend that the greatest costs will be at the beginning, when the hardware needs to be bought, software written, and huge volumes of information will be being sent in from around the world. After this, the only costs will be in maintaining the system (as it is an IT system, these costs shouldn't be too high) and inputting the smaller amount of information - smaller because work will only have to be input as it is written once the initial works have been sorted out.

Even if the costs did increase, they would have to increase very substantially to become a problem. My estimate is the equivalent of $125 per country - in comparison, in the real world, the US's annual GDP is about $11 trillion, the UK's is about $1 trillion and in Nicaragua (the poorest country in the world by GDP) it is about $2.6 billion. The costs of this project will be absolutely miniscule in comparison to the size of an economy, and really shouldn't matter at all.

What do you think your doing IT IS GREAT. VOTE FOR IT!

Theres my two cents.



join gathingenica

How are your taxes being raised for the benefit of poorer economies? Yes, your taxes will likely rise with the passing of this resolution (although not too much as it only has a "mild" impact), but I don't see the connection with "benefits of others whose poor economies have driven their populations into poverty." ?

I'd appreciate it if you could cite examples and specific points within the resolution before making any more blanket statements such as those that you've already made. You're certainly welcome to your opinion, but I'd like to know what you're referencing, so that I can give an appropriate response. Thanks.
Which is a violation of Resolution #4 you can't subject us to taxes for the benefit of the UN. Stop charging us so you can have your library. Go build your own in your own nation.

Which is a violation of Resolution #4 you can't subject us to taxes for the benefit of the UN. Stop charging us so you can have your library. Go build your own in your own nation.
No, it's not a violation. Resolution #4 prohibits the direct tax of citizens by the UN. [The UN shall not be allowed to collect taxes directly from the citizens of any member state for any purpose.]

The resolution in question specifically states that member nations will be paying an annual fee, should they *choose* to participate. It also states that there will be no taxation enforced on member nations by passing the proposal. Most likely, the game mechanics will interpret the resolution as needing to increase taxes a little (although I have no way of being certain on that point), but the resolution does specifically state: No taxing authority shall be created by the passage of this resolution.

PROMOTES cultural awareness by permitting the creation of the Universal Literary Exchange Network (ULEN).

I voted against, along with my Region's delegate, specifically for that reason.

You voted against an otherwise supportable resolution because it allows nations to participate separately in a literary exchange program? Why is that?

If a nation opts to participate, they will pay an annual fee to have the Universal Library made available to all internet portals within that nation.

So if I decline to participate I do not have to pay? Or because I am a UN member I an entitled to? I am a bit confused ...

I voted against, along with my Region's delegate, specifically for that reason.
The rest of us are proud to not have white supremecist support for the proposal.

In fact, I think I'll go telegram the 20 delegates with the most votes and point out that they're on the side of the white supremecists on this one. Let's see how quick their votes change.

The rest of us are proud to not have white supremecist support for the proposal.

In fact, I think I'll go telegram the 20 delegates with the most votes and point out that they're on the side of the white supremecists on this one. Let's see how quick their votes change.

So far, that'd be Pixiedance, with 604 votes! :eek:

Plus, of course, the other 19 delegates. Do you think we'd get 90+% approval then?

The rest of us are proud to not have white supremecist support for the proposal.

In fact, I think I'll go telegram the 20 delegates with the most votes and point out that they're on the side of the white supremecists on this one. Let's see how quick their votes change.

You have fun with that. ;) It's already in the majority to pass anyway so it's not like 20 votes would matter.

You have fun with that. ;)

Ooooooh! Sounds like a challenge!

You have fun with that. ;) It's already in the majority to pass anyway so it's not like 20 votes would matter.

*edited

So far, that'd be Pixiedance, with 604 votes! :eek:

Plus, of course, the other 19 delegates. Do you think we'd get 90+% approval then?
Pixiedance? Don't get me started on the soap opera in that region.

Someone stole kathyy's nation, and the whole region is dysfunctional. last time i looked, anyway. do they still have 2 competing regional boards, each of which claims to be the only official one?

Still, even the weasel who took over pixiedance would probably be open to some bribery, if it meant getting to cast a vote in opposition to stormfront.com.

That was harsh by the way, YGSM, HOW DARE you call me a white supremecist when I clearly am one!! I am SO OFFENDED!! And ESPECIALLY since it says that the library is optional to only those who are willing to participate! "GIVES each UN member nation and non-UN member nation the opportunity to participate and be a member of the ULC." ... Which my nation will graciously decline participation, along with my region. I admit that the proposal was very well written and a good idea to those who agree to it. I appologize that I do not. My fault! :D

Pixiedance? Don't get me started on the soap opera in that region.

Someone stole kathyy's nation, and the whole region is dysfunctional. last time i looked, anyway. do they still have 2 competing regional boards, each of which claims to be the only official one?

Still, even the weasel who took over pixiedance would probably be open to some bribery, if it meant getting to cast a vote in opposition to stormfront.com.

Personally, I'd love to hear the "soap opera" about that region, but here's probably not the best place. Personally, my thoughts about delegates are kind of like kids' thoughts about adults - never trust any over 30.

That said, I don't have any personal issues with larger delegates, except I worry when the margins are close what happens when one changes his or her mind.

That was harsh by the way, YGSM, HOW DARE you call me a white supremecist when I clearly am one!! I am SO OFFENDED!! And ESPECIALLY since it says that the library is optional to only those who are willing to participate! "GIVES each UN member nation and non-UN member nation the opportunity to participate and be a member of the ULC." ... Which my nation will graciously decline participation, along with my region. I admit that the proposal was very well written and a good idea to those who agree to it. I appologize that I do not. My fault! :D

Darn. No cheap "Mein Kampf" knockoffs on the UL. I guess it's up to Krioval to stock the tasteless literature section then. Oh well.

Darn. No cheap "Mein Kampf" knockoffs on the UL. I guess it's up to Krioval to stock the tasteless literature section then. Oh well.

What is concidered "tasteless" in this case is purely up to opinion. *cough*

Pixiedance 602
Faerin II 308
Unlimited 307
Checkers McDog 85
, Alluhaland 64
Chaucerin 52
Dresophila Prime 39
Smithenhivendom 25
Bloodmoon-Hyperion 25
Smeggy 23
Bucellarion 21
America--- 20
BratislavaSlovakia 18
YTMND 17
Cheerio 17
Sedgwick And Moz 15
Mattabooloo 14
Hamdonia 14
Nerobi Narabba 13
The Belima 12

but voting ends tomorrow, so there's probably no point.

YTMND is in no way connected with YGSM, and I'm afraid to even click on the link and find out what it stands for

That was harsh by the way, YGSM, HOW DARE you call me a white supremecist when I clearly am one!! I am SO OFFENDED!! And ESPECIALLY since it says that the library is optional to only those who are willing to participate! "GIVES each UN member nation and non-UN member nation the opportunity to participate and be a member of the ULC." ... Which my nation will graciously decline participation, along with my region. I admit that the proposal was very well written and a good idea to those who agree to it. I appologize that I do not. My fault! :D
hey, be glad i didn't call you a neo-nazi!

i did manage to associate you in everyone's mind with stormfront, at least. subtle, that was.

Darn. No cheap "Mein Kampf" knockoffs on the UL. I guess it's up to Krioval to stock the tasteless literature section then. Oh well.
i call dibs on submitting the saddam hussein porno romances!

i call dibs on submitting the saddam hussein porno romances!

With men, women, or *other*?

i haven't actually read any of them. my arabic's not so good, you see...

(p.s. notice who good the spelling was int eh above? ferpect! i'm not drunk!)

The rest of us are proud to not have white supremecist support for the proposal.

In fact, I think I'll go telegram the 20 delegates with the most votes and point out that they're on the side of the white supremecists on this one. Let's see how quick their votes change.


now thats what i call democracy!

Typical. I go away for a few days, and Asshelmetta gets DEATed andthis gets through.
Votes For: 10,941

Votes Against: 3,755
Ah well, congrats.

i call dibs on submitting the saddam hussein porno romances!

Other than the other problems that I have mentioned. This is another problem with the idea. All material of an unacceptable format( romance, pornography, racist, biased) must not be allowed. These formats will be harmful to the good name of Maxwell Berry and the book( Jennifer Government) that this game is based from. The ULC must have strict and puritan standards on what it allows into itself.

And there is, absolutely, nothing wrong with the North Pacific. I am proud to be a part of the region. So if the proponents of this ULC Resolution are against the work that we, of North Pacific, are doing; Then, you must all be "Right-wing Seperatists" that wish to start a war with the entire world.

Other than the other problems that I have mentioned. This is another problem with the idea. All material of an unacceptable format( romance, pornography, racist, biased) must not be allowed. These formats will be harmful to the good name of Maxwell Berry and the book( Jennifer Government) that this game is based from. The ULC must have strict and puritan standards on what it allows into itself.
Somehow I think that sort of goes against the idea of the ULC...

Member nations may also choose to provide content filters for their citizenry.

what the fuck? are you all supporting dictatorships? VOTE NO against these fascist swines.

Normally I'd probably be a little less prickly on this, but having explained it several times in the past week, and being horribly sleep-deprived, here goes:

Nations MAY but don't have to, filter content. I find it interesting that I (as a supporter of this resolution) have been lumped in with the "filthy pornographers" AND "Fascist censors" (both indirect quotes, BTW) simultaneously. The entire point of this resolution is to promote information exchange. Notice the total lack of reference to individual government's political systems. I couldn't care less, with respect to this resolution, what type of government or level of access one wishes to grant. It's not like a nation is forced to subscribe or submit material in the first place.

Want to grant unfettered access to all submitted materials to all your citizens? Great. That's what Krioval will likely do. Want to restrict access to non-pornographic or "pure" materials? Fine. Not my first choice, but I'm going to respect your nation's right to do that. Don't want to participate? Whatever. But I hardly think that by not including language in every resolution that says, effectively:

Dictatorships are EVIL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

one is automatically supporting dictatorial forms of government. A little discernment is appreciated, though my expectations have diminished considerably since my entrance into the UN at the end of January.

Similarly, just because someone doesn't like porn doesn't mean that international arrangements to transmit the stuff should be blocked. Then we're back to:

Where are the morals?! Porn is EVIL!!!!!!!! So is anything that disagrees with the religion I was spoonfed since infancy and never questioned. Think of the children!!!

Frankly, if Kriovalians want to read YGSM's porn (I bet it's top quality), and YGSM's citizens want Kriovalian romance novels and tabloids, great! Maybe it's not the height of our respective cultures, but I see no reason to specifically bar this material and not, say, murder mysteries or Krioval's constitution.

Lord Jevo Telovar
United Nations Ambassador
Armed Republic of Krioval
Regional Delegate of Chaotica

Ah well, congrats.
Thanks - it's not official yet, but I suppose a sudden switch in voting would be unlikely. Not impossible, so I won't be celebrating quite yet - still, I appreciate the sentiment. :)

And Neo-Anarchists, you're right - that does go against the idea of the ULC. Content filters are available to individual nations that wish to restrain access to particular documents/types of documents/etc. that are a part of the GLC. No censorship will be carried out on behalf of the GLC.

ETA: Nice post, Krioval. Great points that will hopefully be read, rather than ignored. :rolleyes:

Thanks. I mean, most of this is already covered in this thread! I wouldn't be such a snarky bitch if people had just read and asked for clarifications. I don't mind clarifying the same point several times if it's apparent that some part wasn't explained completely enough. But honestly, when someone who hasn't bothered to read the official thread posts a one-line nasty response, I have to question their commitment to literacy.



Reading! Try it some time.

Nonetheless what you say, you do support dictatorship. You do allow to censor and even go that far that you want this censorship to be UN certified. I say *** that.

Now, you know what. Instead of reading, let's try to think. Maybe you will find that you don't have arguments and you are just repeating yourself as old turntable..

Nonetheless what you say, you do support dictatorship.Yes. You do allow to censor and even go that far that you want this censorship to be UN certified.Yes. I say *** that. Bully for you.Now, you know what. Instead of reading, let's try to think.I have done so. I have arrived at the conclusion that I am in a better position to decide what is right for my particular nation than you are, and that by allowing flexibility in International Law I can continue to make decisions for myself and my people, instead of falling into whichever politically correct movement is in the ascendency at the moment. Maybe you will find that you don't have arguments and you are just repeating yourself as old turntable..Or maybe I will decide that your particular tilting windmill is being pushed only by the force of winds, rather than a carefully-thought-out political and social ideology.

we can change otherthigs with r tAx money then a libary like well fare n stuff
yea just vote know if you know whats good for you (if you want smart pepole like you join gatesville)1025 pepole there and growing :sniper:

(if you want smart pepole like you join gatesville)1025 pepole there and growing :sniper:
A: Bob, don't region-pimp in the UN Forum. That's only permitted in Gameplay.

B: If this is representative of the smart "pepole" in Gatesville, they might want to consider a different ambassador.

At the risk of sounding like a never-ending Oscar acceptance speech, there are some people I'd like to thank ...

Great Agnostica, for the original resolution. I'd never even considered the idea of forming a global library via the UN, and his original resolution planted the idea in my head.
Pojonia, for spearheading the appeal of the original resolution, and offering some suggestions on this proposal.
Krioval, for his Literary Museum idea, which I feel really added to the overall resolution.
Nargopia, Asshelmetta/YGSM, Neo-Anarchists, Frisbeeteria, the members of the regions of Texas and Monkey Island ... and many others who I'm forgetting at the moment - for your support, assistance, suggested revisions, telegramming assistance, etc.

Really - the booming success of this resolution would not have been possible without each of you. Thanks so very, very much. :D

Nonetheless what you say, you do support dictatorship.

You guessed it. Despite my nation's elections and overall democratic leanings, we're nothing more than a front for Dictators 'R' Us. How you ever guessed is beyond me, but rest assured that we'll never give up the fight! Go Dictators!!! [/sarcasm, for now]

You do allow to censor

Absolutely. Classified military information, for example, is censored before the general public is allowed to read the non-classified stuff. It's called national security, in that case. And if someone doesn't want to read Kriovalian porn, I have no problem with them filtering it out of their datastreams. Deal.

and even go that far that you want this censorship to be UN certified.

Show me where the UN "certifies" censorship. Sorry, but "a nation may use internet filters" doesn't exactly constitute UN-sponsored repression.

I say *** that.

Interesting, considering that you're against censorship, yet the word "fuck" is something you feel can't be typed. Of course, you used it earlier, so would that make your nation selectively prudish or merely hypocritical?

Now, you know what.

I sure do.

Instead of reading, let's try to think.

Already ahead of you on that one, ya know.

Maybe you will find that you don't have arguments and you are just repeating yourself as old turntable.

Are you debating me or a mirror? I have yet to have my arguments challenged by you.

~ Raijin Dekker, Commander of Krioval

At the risk of sounding like a never-ending Oscar acceptance speech, there are some people I'd like to thank ...

Great Agnostica, for the original resolution. I'd never even considered the idea of forming a global library via the UN, and his original resolution planted the idea in my head.
Pojonia, for spearheading the appeal of the original resolution, and offering some suggestions on this proposal.
Krioval, for his Literary Museum idea, which I feel really added to the overall resolution.
Nargopia, Asshelmetta/YGSM, Neo-Anarchists, Frisbeeteria, the members of the regions of Texas and Monkey Island ... and many others who I'm forgetting at the moment - for your support, assistance, suggested revisions, telegramming assistance, etc.

Really - the booming success of this resolution would not have been possible without each of you. Thanks so very, very much. :D

Thank you for showing up with a solid resolution early in the debate phase or we'd still be wrangling over details at this point. Really, the museum idea, while something I've grown to really like, was intended initially as a compromise for those who wanted a "physical structure" to go with a virtual library. I'm glad it was included and passed. But really, I'm awed by your tenacity on this, and everybody else who managed to put together a successful telegram campaign (and even cover me!).

I have a question about the wording of some specific resolutions. These being the UNWODC & the Library Coliation.

First the UNWODC

Calling on the Nations of the UN to increase funding for both governmental and non governmental organisations charged with the implementation and administration of the UNWODC,

Funding for the UNWODC shall be sourced from the coffers of the International Community, By way of increased governmental funding and fund raisers held locally by the IRCO and other relief and charitable organisations.

Does this not mean taxation & is this not a violation of resolution no 4

The UN shall not be allowed to collect taxes directly from the citizens of any member state for any purpose.
My nations taxes went up drastically as this measure passes my gov had no say in approving or disapproving this so did not the UN directly tax my citizens

I forsee the same problem in the way the library colilition is set up.

Are these legal resolutions & what is the loophole that you see if they are?

My nations taxes went up drastically as this measure passes my gov had no say in approving or disapproving this so did not the UN directly tax my citizens
First, I moved this from the UN sticky to someplace more appropriate.

Second, your own taxes went up to pay for it. The UN required that you raise taxes, but they don't keep the money. It goes for they branches of the Library in your own nation, and your guys collect it, spend it, and do all the accounting.

All this has been raised in this thread and others multiple, multiple times. Resolution #4 does not prevent unfunded mandates, and the UN loves passing them. It's an indirect tax, and therefore exempt from Res #4.

Why did I not see this before? :)

As a sort of project of the region of Invaders, several members and myself made a Library for the benifit of all NS. That is right, an actual Library on an Invisionfree forum.

This Library is open to ALL nations and region in NationStates, regardless of who you are, or wether you are a defender or invader or one of the many neutral peoples. Just sign in with your nations name, and read the enyclopedias, dictionaries, and member publications. Yes, you can even submit works of your own to our publishers and have them published! There are places to dicuss other's works, too.

The forum may look empty, now, but once people get in and start writing and reading, it would be alot of fun. Here is the link:

The Great Library (http://s3.invisionfree.com/The_Great_Library/index.php?act=idx)

Why did I not see this before? :)

As a sort of project of the region of Invaders, several members and myself made a Library for the benifit of all NS. That is right, an actual Library on an Invisionfree forum.

This Library is open to ALL nations and region in NationStates, regardless of who you are, or wether you are a defender or invader or one of the many neutral peoples. Just sign in with your nations name, and read the enyclopedias, dictionaries, and member publications. Yes, you can even submit works of your own to our publishers and have them published! There are places to dicuss other's works, too.

The forum may look empty, now, but once people get in and start writing and reading, it would be alot of fun. Here is the link:

The Great Library (http://s3.invisionfree.com/The_Great_Library/index.php?act=idx)
I'll get busy writing that Saddam Hussein porn, then.

CONGRATULATIONS, Mousebumples!

Read the rules, before you go posting anything.

And as I have feared would happen, I have ben brought under compliance by the Minisry of Compliance. I have yet to decide if I wish to endorse this ULC. However as the way that it was said, Only those that choose to participate would have to pay the taxes and change their laws. And I have not begun to participat and I have, already, begun to be censorred by this law.

And as I have feared would happen, I have ben brought under compliance by the Minisry of Compliance. I have yet to decide if I wish to endorse this ULC. However as the way that it was said, Only those that choose to participate would have to pay the taxes and change their laws. And I have not begun to participat and I have, already, begun to be censorred by this law.
First off, the resolution itself does no censoring. Just a quick note before I really get started.

Secondly, you likely know as well as anyone else, that the TG that you received from the Compliance Ministry is standard procedure after a resolution is passed. If I were to get a resolution passed that says "Nothing shall happen in any way, shape, or form in any member nation as a result of the passing of this resolution," you would still get the same TG.

No changing of laws should be necessitated by this proposal, but, again, that's standard wording. Do you expect that the mods have enough time - between discovering and deleting UN multis, removing inappropriate proposals, etc. - to write up a new UN Compliance Ministry message for each passed resolution? [I'm guessing that the server likely automatically generates that TG, although I'm not sure ... ] Honestly, I think that's expecting a bit much.

I don't see why you're complaining about something that has very little to do with the passed resolution itself, and more to do with gameplay. You think it's possible to get a resolution passed that will not result in having the TG from the Compliance Ministry sent out? Have at it, be my guest, and good luck.

However, again, that is a matter of gameplay and isn't something that can be changed or avoided through UN Resolutions - in my understanding anyhow.

No, it's not a violation. Resolution #4 prohibits the direct tax of citizens by the UN. [The UN shall not be allowed to collect taxes directly from the citizens of any member state for any purpose.]

The resolution in question specifically states that member nations will be paying an annual fee, should they *choose* to participate. It also states that there will be no taxation enforced on member nations by passing the proposal. Most likely, the game mechanics will interpret the resolution as needing to increase taxes a little (although I have no way of being certain on that point), but the resolution does specifically state: No taxing authority shall be created by the passage of this resolution.
If you could choose to particiapte or not that would be fine but I don't have that choice. My people were just taxed without us getting a say. It's nice that line was put in that we have a choice bit since we really don't other then leaving the UN. Your intentions turn into lie!

If you could choose to particiapte or not that would be fine but I don't have that choice. My people were just taxed without us getting a say. It's nice that line was put in that we have a choice bit since we really don't other then leaving the UN. Your intentions turn into lie!
Again, this is a gameplay issue and not really anything I, or any resolution writer has any control over. I presume that the game admins instead assume participation, but I have no way of knowing that for sure, and somehow I doubt that they'll be hopping on over to fill us in on how they coded for this particular resolution.

Somehow, I doubt that I convinced you to vote in favor of the resolution anyhow, so it's not as if my "lies" (as you see them anyhow, although I prefer to differ, as I was speaking from an RP standpoint, rather than a gameplay view) caused you to vote in favor of a "bad" resolution.

My understanding of the UN is that the UN gnomes automatically assume participation by all nations, and adjust statistics accordingly, depending on the category and strength of the resolution. Everything else (wording, etc) is really just part of the IC and RP aspect of NS. Why you would want to bitch at me about the gameplay effects of the proposal, I don't know. Do you think that as the proposal writer I have some sort of power over how everything works, in terms of gameplay? (if that's the case, the answer is certainly no)

I'm sorry that you're disappointed to see this resolution pass, but complaining about it here won't really change anything.

I probably need to write something about the difference between roleplay and game mechanics facets of the UN. *sigh*

I guess I'll just add it to my UN "To Do" list along with the Morality/Legality essay. :(

Congrats, Mousebumples. It's good to see a proposal so carefully thought out placed into the books.