NationStates Jolt Archive

In recognizing that the world is becoming more dangerous, And that rogue elements among the global population are becoming increasingly violent, The Republic of Kargan proposes the introduction of a method to identify and track any human by way of a subdermal microchip.

Any exalted UN delegates reading this are strongly urged to search Human Identification Systems and give your approval

Could you post a copy here?

This is an excellent idea.

i already posted a copy, but: In recognizing that the world is becoming more dangerous, And that rogue elements among the global population are becoming increasingly violent, The Republic of Kargan proposes the introduction of a method to identify and track any human by way of a subdermal microchip.

what kind of proposal is it? moral decency? and how powerful is it? some of us are too lazy to search it unless we're gonna vote for it.

It is down as international security, but it occurs to me that it might workbetter as moral decency

also, what of the nations whose citizens are not human? and this also violates privacy rights. I doubt any rational person will vote for it.

Kargan is an irrational, bigoted psychotic dictatorship, what do you expect? :P joking

Seriously - post a copy of the proposal, otherwise most people are going to ignore it.

third times the charm ;)

In recognizing that the world is becoming more dangerous, And that rogue elements among the global population are becoming increasingly violent, The Republic of Kargan proposes the introduction of a method to identify and track any human by way of a subdermal microchip.

third times the charm ;)

In recognizing that the world is becoming more dangerous, And that rogue elements among the global population are becoming increasingly violent, The Republic of Kargan proposes the introduction of a method to identify and track any human by way of a subdermal microchip.

Oh, for Bob's sake! The category and the strength of it. Copy it as it looks in the queue.

I'm glad it's not just me who didn't think he was posting :}

I'll do it for him.

Human Identification Systems

A resolution to improve world security by boosting police and military budgets.


Category: International Security


Strength: Strong


Proposed by: Kargan

Description: In recognizing that the world is becoming more dangerous, And that rogue elements among the global population are becoming increasingly violent, The Republic of Kargan proposes the introduction of a method to identify and track any human by way of a subdermal microchip.
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yeah right. what about the nonhuman sentient beings among us? what about robot nations (ask DemonLordEnigma about that)? This just doesn't cut it, imo, especially since subdermal microchips have not been safety-tested, in rl or ns.

I'll do it for him.

Human Identification Systems

A resolution to improve world security by boosting police and military budgets.


Category: International Security


Strength: Strong


Proposed by: Kargan

Description: In recognizing that the world is becoming more dangerous, And that rogue elements among the global population are becoming increasingly violent, The Republic of Kargan proposes the introduction of a method to identify and track any human by way of a subdermal microchip.
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yeah. what about the nonhuman sentient beings among us? what about robot nations (see DemonLordEnigma about that)? This just doesn't cut it, imo


Invasion of privacy much?

I am not so concerned by the distinction between human and non-human - I tend to apply human to "any species a nation recgonises as sentient and worthy of protection".

But tracking the movement of every single person in the UN? Serious invasion of privacy - one that my people would not put up with, especially not for the phantom menace of terrorism.

" If I scream " THERE IS ALREADY A NATIONAL ISSUE THAT HAS BEEN AROUND FOR AGES ABOUT THIS ! ! ! " loud enough, will the people hear me at last ? "

- T.R. Kom, commenting on the current state of the U.N. while resisting the urge to set things around him on fire as the voices in his head demand that he does so.

" If I scream " THERE IS ALREADY A NATIONAL ISSUE THAT HAS BEEN AROUND FOR AGES ABOUT THIS ! ! ! " loud enough, will the people hear me at last ? "


No.

Oh, for Bob's sake! The category and the strength of it. Copy it as it looks in the queue.
Why do it for only my sake?:D

" If I scream " THERE IS ALREADY A NATIONAL ISSUE THAT HAS BEEN AROUND FOR AGES ABOUT THIS ! ! ! " loud enough, will the people hear me at last? "
No, otherwise more people would give a damn about national sovereignty.

As this proposal does nothing, we support it.

I believe this would be in violation of several UN Resolutions protecting human rights, which includes privacy.

Nope.

All this proposal does is to state the existance of a piece of technology. It does nothing further.

It not only has no teeth, it has no jaws. It is merely a "hey, look at this, it exists!" proposal.

Utterly useless, bureaucratic filler. As such, we support it. Nothing better then a paper clog.

Nope.

All this proposal does is to state the existance of a piece of technology. It does nothing further.

It not only has no teeth, it has no jaws. It is merely a "hey, look at this, it exists!" proposal.

Utterly useless, bureaucratic filler. As such, we support it. Nothing better then a paper clog.

I see. I still don't see a reason to support it, though.

Just clogging up the works, I am. As to whether it does anything useful - no, it doesn't, its useless, toothless, and pointless.

Just clogging up the works, I am. As to whether it does anything useful - no, it doesn't, its useless, toothless, and pointless.

I see. I'll just make sure I don't make you my plumber :D

You should see the pipeworks we lay when paid by the yard...

Maybe I will...maybe I will. The question is, will I like what I see?

Hmmnnn....

I was hoping this proposal would be something else.

If used properly a ID and tracking system could be useful. Example: missing children could be tracked down and returned to their home, or criminals could be tracked down and captured/re-captured. An ID system would also help stop identity theft since it'd be hard to pretend to have someone elses ID chip or barcode or what not. (I personally think an ID and tracking chip embedded in the body would be a good way to make sure people are safe)

If used properly a ID and tracking system could be useful. Example: missing children could be tracked down and returned to their home, or criminals could be tracked down and captured/re-captured. An ID system would also help stop identity theft since it'd be hard to pretend to have someone elses ID chip or barcode or what not. (I personally think an ID and tracking chip embedded in the body would be a good way to make sure people are safe)
Fine, when you get the issue about it you can establish it in your nation, but don't force the rest of us to do so.

Maybe I will...maybe I will. The question is, will I like what I see?

Hmmnnn....

The last project took up over three hundred square acres, requiring just short of two million feet of pipe (various sizes). This connected the sink to the drain two feet beneath.

It is considered something of a work of art in Tradaa Mutarie.

If used properly a ID and tracking system could be useful. Example: missing children could be tracked down and returned to their home, or criminals could be tracked down and captured/re-captured. An ID system would also help stop identity theft since it'd be hard to pretend to have someone elses ID chip or barcode or what not. (I personally think an ID and tracking chip embedded in the body would be a good way to make sure people are safe)

You could use it to keep track of protestors, union leaders, political adjutators, opposition politicians. You could spy on your children, your spouse. You could track the movement of someone you wanted to blackmail so you can find out where they are going and what they are doing.

You can design weapons to pick up specific bar code signals that can target one person from any distance.

To make it work properly you would need chip scanners everywhere - including people's homes (cause if a criminal his hiding in the home, how else would you pick him up?) so that no one will have any privacy any more. Every move of every person could be tracked at the flick of the switch and no one would be free from government survalliance for the rest of their lives.

Which obviously is a bad thing.

This seems like an owellian World if an idea like this is passed. It has nothing about the uses of said microchips and if it did it would be illegal. Run your own country and get the **** out of mine!

We've been chipping animals for years, doesn't seem to do them any harm. This seems like a brilliant idea, you can easily track criminals plus personal advertising just like minority report, HOW COOL WOULD THAT BE!!! The mighty empire of Hengliang approves your proposals.

You could use it to keep track of protestors, union leaders, political adjutators, opposition politicians. You could spy on your children, your spouse. You could track the movement of someone you wanted to blackmail so you can find out where they are going and what they are doing.

You can design weapons to pick up specific bar code signals that can target one person from any distance.

To make it work properly you would need chip scanners everywhere - including people's homes (cause if a criminal his hiding in the home, how else would you pick him up?) so that no one will have any privacy any more. Every move of every person could be tracked at the flick of the switch and no one would be free from government survalliance for the rest of their lives.

Which obviously is a bad thing.

Dude I don't know if you'ved ever heard of a little thing called a "mobile phone". These "mobile phones" are amazing. They let the user communicate over vast distances and emit a homing signal. You can track people to within a few meters and better yet you can even listen to what they're saying. It's amazing!!! The mighty empire of Hengliang has been using these new fangled "mobile phones" to track down our most vicious criminals and kipper murderers. The mighty empire of Hengliang and its supreme ruler salute you.

Dude I don't know if you'ved ever heard of a little thing called a "mobile phone". These "mobile phones" are amazing. They let the user communicate over vast distances and emit a homing signal. You can track people to within a few meters and better yet you can even listen to what they're saying. It's amazing!!! The mighty empire of Hengliang has been using these new fangled "mobile phones" to track down our most vicious criminals and kipper murderers. The mighty empire of Hengliang and its supreme ruler salute you.

Do you force people to have mobile phones against their will? Is everyone issue with a phone when they are born?

And are you aware that tapping in to mobile phones is possibly against the invasion of privacy resolution that was passed a long while back?

Human tracking tags! Are you kidding! If you want human Tracking syatems then that means you get one stuck in you too. You do know that right?

I think you all mistook my position. This particular proposal is in theory a good idea. But to be fully implemented it would need to be more detailed in its outline of how to use the ID systems. Granted that they can be abused by corrupt people. But if implemented properly and used according to the outline of that implementation it would in fact make nations safer.

Granted that they can be abused by corrupt people.
Lucky for you that there are no corrupt people or nations here in the NationStates UN. We're all the nicest people around!

<twirls pinkie in dimpled cheek while beaming broadly>

See? How could you not trust us to do the right thing?

Lucky for you that there are no corrupt people or nations here in the NationStates UN. We're all the nicest people around!
We are?
I mean, yes we are!
*hides conspicuoualy long knife behind back and smiles nervously*
See? How could you not trust us to do the right thing?
Yes we're...
Umm, what's that word... Sounds like "fiend"...
Friendly! Yes, friendly!
That's it!

I do not know whether to laugh or cry.


Proposed by: Kargan

Description: In recognizing that the world is becoming more dangerous, And that rogue elements among the global population are becoming increasingly violent, The Republic of Kargan proposes the introduction of a method to identify and track any human by way of a subdermal microchip.
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I'm not sure I agree with Vastiva that "propos[ing] the introduction of a method" does nothing. (I definitely agree with the rest of Vastiva's assessment of the resolution.) The language is ambiguous but implies the method of tracking via microchip with be introduced (i.e., implemented).

Even as merely a suggestion to use existing technology or to develop such technology (and assuming the techonolgy is medically safe and without side effects), I am firmly against this.

First, it violates bodily integrity. Invasion of a citizen's body without consent is among the ultimate violations (if not the ultimate violation) of human rights.

Second, as noted, it is a massive invasion of privacy.

Third, it is simply begging for abuse as TilEnca has illustrated.

Fourth, this is a typical case of rushing to surrender liberties for the false promise of a little more security. It seems highly doubtful this would be effective. What would stop rogue nations or terrorists from simply removing the chips from their agents?

Hopefully, only those handful of delegates that approve everything will vote for this. This is the kind of proposal that, if it passed, would cause The Cat-Tribe to leave the UN.

As written, the proposal does absolutely nothing. It says "here's this thing we know of".

An equivalent proposal might say "We think overpopulation is a bad thing. We've invented condoms. They're good".

The proposal calls for absolutely no action - none. Zip. Zero. Nada. Not even a bit of action. All it says is "well, this exists". Well, yes, condoms exist as well, as do trash bags and cigarette holders, but that doesn't mean they're going to be used.

If used properly a ID and tracking system could be useful. Example: missing children could be tracked down and returned to their home, or criminals could be tracked down and captured/re-captured. An ID system would also help stop identity theft since it'd be hard to pretend to have someone elses ID chip or barcode or what not. (I personally think an ID and tracking chip embedded in the body would be a good way to make sure people are safe)

This will also result in easy crackdown on anyone who disagrees with the leader. No one would be safe, they could be arrested and executed without trial just for making a joke among friends about the government. I am officially against this being passed.

we dissagree with this issue, because it doenst matter what the intended use for this system is, it is still a violation of UN resolution 10. also, just because the governments and UN can track people, doesnt mean that others cant. you could try the highest amount of security, but someone is going to copy the reader technology in order to use it for their own purpose. also, who is to say that a non-UN country wont get their hands on the reader technology, and use it to target political leaders? if this is implemented, even dictators would have to have the chip.

the original issue, Resistancia, was a bureaucratic logjam issue which, paraphrased, said "Here's a way to keep tabs on your population. We won't do anything to make you use it, but it's there if you need it." Since then, others have discussed ways to give it teeth, and those ways ARE in violation of R-10. My nation doesn't support bureaucratic backlogs OR invasions of privacy like this.

the original issue, Resistancia, was a bureaucratic logjam issue which, paraphrased, said "Here's a way to keep tabs on your population. We won't do anything to make you use it, but it's there if you need it." Since then, others have discussed ways to give it teeth, and those ways ARE in violation of R-10. My nation doesn't support bureaucratic backlogs OR invasions of privacy like this.
yes i realise this. i was stating that the Rogue State of Resistancia does not support this resolution, and stating the reason why, just as you have.

No, you were responding to the issues that arose out of the original issue. If you don't support the original issue since it's backlog, just state so. Don't make us read between the lines.