NationStates Jolt Archive

The nation of Viznajev believes that the UN is failing because UN delegates are not giving proposals the proper attention.

I came to realize this after going through 18 pages of proposals that are lacking support. Not one of those proposals had more than half of the required number of approvals for it to be passed before the UN. I find this unacceptable.

I don't believe that the problem is bad proposals, but instead, failed responsibility on the part of the UN delegates to do their job.

To the UN delegates that have reviewed proposals and approved or disapproved, I thank you, continue to show the good example. But, as far as the whole UN Delegation is concerned, I couldn't be less impressed. Sincerely yours.

Emperor Martimus

Visit my Nation (http://www.nationstates.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/target=display_nation/nation=viznajev)

I agree with you. None of my proposals seem to be even considered by the UN delegates.

The U.N is to big for its own good. They need to reduce the number of votes a proposal needs to get passed. I mean people may not bother checking because they know far to many people have to approve it. It should be capped off at 40 or 50. That would bring more issues to the floor, where the U.N really pays attention.

I don't believe that the problem is bad proposals...
I do.

If you're serious about getting a proposal passed, you post it in this forum, get comments, write a new draft, get some more comments, write another draft... you get the picture. I believe the more popular Global Library replacement is on its eighth or ninth draft. After you've done all this, you set up a telegramming campaign to inform the delegates. If you'd like more information about how to get your proposals to quorum, please telegram me.

If you truly think bad proposals is the problem.. review the proposals that have been approved in the past and tell me if the UN delegates are really prejudiced towards bad proposals.

I've been here for a while. I've been UN Delegate since the day after my nation's creation. Most proposals are horribly written. Many are joke proposals, or at least seem to be because they're intentions are laughable. Many other proposals are illegal. As for the remainder of those that you are trying to defend here... MOST DELEGATES DON'T AGREE WITH THEM. This doesn't mean they're prejudiced, it means that delegates won't support a proposal they wouldn't vote for.

As a delegate myself, I find it absurd that I'm expected to automatically approve everything that comes across the proposal list. Frankly, some of it's total garbage. Some of it's well-written but something my nation wouldn't advocate. I check the proposal list at least twice a week. Usually it's every day. I approve things I actually like, and a lot of what I see is either unworkable or unnecessary, in my view.

I've only been a delegate for less than a month, and in that time have endorsed only 8 or 9 proposals/repeals.

When I got the delegacy, the first place I went was the proposal list, like a kid let loose in a candy shop, I was excited and could'nt wait to use my new "power". That first time I went through every page, and guess how many endorsements I gave....one. There just was'nt anything else in there that I felt deserved it.

I do go through the first 6 pages of the list a few times a week, but don't go through the whole thing because I just don't have the time to wade through 15 to 20 pages.

I am picky in what I will or won't endorse. It has to be something that I feel will benefit my nation and region. That I feel is my job as delegate, and not to just endorse anything willy nilly, because the author wants me to. For example, I could'nt care less about legalizing/banning drugs, so ignore any proposal about that, I don't want all my citizens to have guns, so ignore those proposals, I don't want the definition of marriage (gay marriage), abortion, eutheanasia, or sex workers resolutions repealed, so ignore those, etc etc.

If authors want their proposals endorsed, then they have to do a bit of the work themselves, by posting it here, and being open to the questions and criticisms that will be raised, and not just expect delegates do it all.

Personally, I think the ideal process of proposing a resolution should be:

1. Posting a first draft of the resolution on the UN forum before putting it on the proposals list.

2. Asking politely for criticism and indicating what the intent of the resolution is. Sometimes the wording isn't clear enough.

3. Making multiple drafts, incorporating at least some suggestions from others, and correcting mistakes in spelling and grammar.

4. Organizing a telegram campaign before or just as the proposal is submitted.

5. Posting a new thread here indicating that the proposal has been submitted.

Do these things, and people might actually give otherwise-ignored proposals the time of day.

And you would enforce this how exactly?

By the way - we have had an average of one proposal approved (ie brought to the floor for a full vote of the UN) every six days since the start of December. I think this indicates that the delegates are doing their job pretty well.

And you would enforce this how exactly?

Is this directed toward me? I'm confused.

Is this directed toward me? I'm confused.

Yeah - sorry. I was just saying that having an ideal system is fine, but it will never work. There is a sticky at the top of this forum that tells you about submitting proposals, yet people are still being told off for not submitting valid ones. If people can't get something as simple as that right, your idea - however good it might be (and it was, more or less, the way The EON Convention was passed) - is going to confuse them even more :}

I didn't mean to imply that it should be enforced. It's probably one of the better ways to pass a good resolution (or any for that matter), and naturally, only represents my opinion on the matter.

EDIT: Mainly, I think it's the best way to attract the attention of delegates. People who crab about delegates' "apathy" when all they're doing is submitting a proposal and waiting for approvals to flood in is the height of hypocrisy, in UN proposal submission terms.

I must concur with the other delegates. I happen to be on my third stint as UN delegate, upon my recieving delegate status the first thing I do is go through the entire proposal list. Then after that I go through the last few pages of proposals twice a day to see the new submissions.

If I haven't approved a proposal it's because it's either illegal, not worth the UN time (in my opnion), or I disagree with it, in some cases there have been proposals that fell into all three catagories.

To assume that we delegates are here to simply rubber stamp our approval onto any garbage that somebody decides to submit is a ludicris idea, if I approve a proposal it's because I actually took the time to read it and I agree with it and that is the only time I give my approval.

I've only been involved for about a month, but I'm loathe to support too many proposals given that every piece of legislation that has been up in my time has been voted in. I worry that people are just rubber stamping what makes it on to the table, so I'm not going to encourage rubbish.

I've only been involved for about a month, but I'm loathe to support too many proposals given that every piece of legislation that has been up in my time has been voted in. I worry that people are just rubber stamping what makes it on to the table, so I'm not going to encourage rubbish.
Bear in mind that, due to the way the UN works, most of the garbage proposals that would get voted down never make it to the floor due to either not recieving enough approvals from the delegates, or being deleated by the mods if their illegal.

Well, thank you for your replies. So far, you are the only delegates who have defended yourselves; where are the other thousand? :) It's great that the five of you go over proposals, and I agree most proposals are trash, but maybe you look at proposals with a certain bias? Maybe, you expect the most of them to be garbage and by doing so overlook some good ones? There have been a lot of bad proposals passed. I am just suggesting that maybe you're throwing good ones out with the rest of the garbage and that the VAST majority of delegates aren't doing their jobs. You are an unsignificant minority. I appreciate what you do, and continue doing it, but it's the ones that don't do their job that i'm not hearing from. They need to be removed. Any suggestions, or comments? I really do appreciate your replies.

I go over all the proposals, but I'm not a delegate, so I can't approve them.
:(

My thoughts on this are well Known to the point that i almost left the UN completely!!

see the Member protest below as to how it was resolved.

A Members Protest! (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=397510&page=1&pp=40)

Well, thank you for your replies. So far, you are the only delegates who have defended yourselves; where are the other thousand? :) It's great that the five of you go over proposals, and I agree most proposals are trash, but maybe you look at proposals with a certain bias? Maybe, you expect the most of them to be garbage and by doing so overlook some good ones? There have been a lot of bad proposals passed. I am just suggesting that maybe you're throwing good ones out with the rest of the garbage and that the VAST majority of delegates aren't doing their jobs. You are an unsignificant minority. I appreciate what you do, and continue doing it, but it's the ones that don't do their job that i'm not hearing from. They need to be removed. Any suggestions, or comments? I really do appreciate your replies.

Not every delegate comes here. Plus I am not a delegate.

Just because they are not posting here doesn't mean they are not looking at the proposal list. It just means they don't come here.

And - again - we have had a proposal approved every week for the past three months. If the delegates were really not doing their jobs then how is that possible?

The nation of Viznajev believes that the UN is failing because UN delegates are not giving proposals the proper attention.

I came to realize this after going through 18 pages of proposals that are lacking support. Not one of those proposals had more than half of the required number of approvals for it to be passed before the UN. I find this unacceptable.

I don't believe that the problem is bad proposals, but instead, failed responsibility on the part of the UN delegates to do their job.

To the UN delegates that have reviewed proposals and approved or disapproved, I thank you, continue to show the good example. But, as far as the whole UN Delegation is concerned, I couldn't be less impressed. Sincerely yours.

Emperor Martimus

Visit my Nation (http://www.nationstates.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/target=display_nation/nation=viznajev)
I read through all 23 pages today and found 2 or 3 worthy of support.

I don't blame anyone for not bothering ot sift through the junk.

Well, thank you for your replies. So far, you are the only delegates who have defended yourselves; where are the other thousand? It's great that the five of you go over proposals, and I agree most proposals are trash, but maybe you look at proposals with a certain bias? Maybe, you expect the most of them to be garbage and by doing so overlook some good ones? There have been a lot of bad proposals passed. I am just suggesting that maybe you're throwing good ones out with the rest of the garbage and that the VAST majority of delegates aren't doing their jobs. You are an unsignificant minority. I appreciate what you do, and continue doing it, but it's the ones that don't do their job that i'm not hearing from. They need to be removed. Any suggestions, or comments? I really do appreciate your replies.

I check the proposals 2 or 3 times a day. I start on the last page and go forward until I get to the ones I have seen. I agree that most of them are garbage, but I look through them anyway. I don't post here often because I work 8-12 hrs. a day, 6 days a week, therefore I am tired much of the time. However, I do read the UN forum daily and try to keep up with the discussion.

I've been a delegate since my regions formation, and in that time, I've hardly endorsed any proposals, relative to the number that have come through. Most of the ones that have passed, and maybe 4 or so that didn't (the UNRAP) comes to mind. This is because most proposals are appallingly useless.

and I agree most proposals are trash, but maybe you look at proposals with a certain bias? Maybe, you expect the most of them to be garbage and by doing so overlook some good ones? There have been a lot of bad proposals passed. I am just suggesting that maybe you're throwing good ones out with the rest of the garbage and that the VAST majority of delegates aren't doing their jobs. You are an unsignificant minority.
I admit that I don't go thorugh the lists as often as I should, but the fact is, I just don't have time. There may well have been some good proposals that slipped through the net, but I think that most proposals that passed did so because of a concerted forum and telegramming campaign.

I agree with the other delegates on this thread. Most of what I see on the proposal list is crap. In my month of delegacy I endorsed maybe six proposals because I felt they were worthy. If we had a disaproval vote for the proposal pages you would see exactly how many delegates read the list. I'd disapprove most of what's on there now.

I agree with the other delegates on this thread. Most of what I see on the proposal list is crap. In my month of delegacy I endorsed maybe six proposals because I felt they were worthy. If we had a disaproval vote for the proposal pages you would see exactly how many delegates read the list. I'd disapprove most of what's on there now.
Agreed.

Asshelmetta, old boy, where have you been?

If we had a disaproval vote for the proposal pages you would see exactly how many delegates read the list. I'd disapprove most of what's on there now.
Don't I wish. Proposal: Let UN Regional Delegates vote to REJECT Proposals (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=304107). Now that I've got an 'in' with the Big Bosses, maybe I can lobby this one through.

(I may have to bribe Salusa with a high-paying tech job, though. Pity I don't have one in my pockets. Anyone out there got one handy?)

(I may have to bribe Salusa with a high-paying tech job, though. Pity I don't have one in my pockets. Anyone out there got one handy?)
No, unfortunately...
Hmm...

Maybe we can entice him into a trap with M&M's as bait? Nobody can resist chocolate.

Agreed.

Asshelmetta, old boy, where have you been?
disneyworld.

would have been better without the kid and with acid.

Don't I wish. Proposal: Let UN Regional Delegates vote to REJECT Proposals (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=304107). Now that I've got an 'in' with the Big Bosses, maybe I can lobby this one through.

(I may have to bribe Salusa with a high-paying tech job, though. Pity I don't have one in my pockets. Anyone out there got one handy?)
uh, yes. actually.

i wouldn't recommend he come to work for my sweatshop, though.

So far, you are the only delegates who have defended yourselves; where are the other thousand? :) It's great that the five of you go over proposals, and I agree most proposals are trash, but maybe you look at proposals with a certain bias? Maybe, you expect the most of them to be garbage and by doing so overlook some good ones? There have been a lot of bad proposals passed. I am just suggesting that maybe you're throwing good ones out with the rest of the garbage and that the VAST majority of delegates aren't doing their jobs. You are an unsignificant minority. I appreciate what you do, and continue doing it, but it's the ones that don't do their job that i'm not hearing from. They need to be removed. Any suggestions, or comments? I really do appreciate your replies.

I've been a U.N delegate in the past and have been reasonably active in the U.N forums (under a different nation, prior to some power changes) I have significant pull with a number of delegates as I'm in an alliance of sorts with many and my own delegate serves at my behest.
That being said, I really really hate to be referred to as "unsignificant", insignificant would be a slight improvement, but what a terrible way to refer to people who actually take the time to read this!
I would far prefer the current situation where the delegates have to be convinced to support a proposal rather then every stupid proposal reaching quarum. Yes, some of the proposals that have gotten through have been awful, but that has been decreasing in the past number of months (global library was an exception, but it has since been repealed, so we can recover from the scars left by that one).
U.N voting rates are relatively low but one must remember that there are many angles that a person can engage with the NationStates world, and for many, U.N business is simply not interesting enough. Let's not do anything to encourage more Lemming votes!

Denusia

Maybe if the proposals were categorized, such as "Military Budgeting", "Social Programs", and "Human Rights" it would make sifting through them easier. Certain delegates may only want to view issues that will affect their regions. A region located in like outer space or away from water for example may not hold an opinion on proposals involving oceans and water ways. Also, delegates may not wish to vote on certain controversial subjects as to not seem prejudicial one way or another.

I also agree that alot of the proposals are not really worth turning into a resolution and taking to a vote. Some are just not detailed enough as to what they do, and some are just flat out unnecessary.



This and also the [List Proposals] button is very small and down near the bottom of the page where delegates may not look. :p

I don't go through the proposals all that often-- once or twice a week. When I do, though, I go through all of them. The main reasons I'll neglect to endorse a proposal:

It's poorly written. This includes poor grammar and spelling, faulty reasoning, and cumbersome wording or formatting. I don't even finish reading the longer ones in this category.

I disagree with its stated goal.

I don't believe the reasoning is sufficient to justify or accomplish the stated goal.

It does nothing but duplicate the effects of one or more previous resolutions.

It's illegal, because it defies previous resolutions, addresses game mechanics, or cites real-world events.

Well, thank you for your replies. So far, you are the only delegates who have defended yourselves; where are the other thousand? It's great that the five of you go over proposals, and I agree most proposals are trash, but maybe you look at proposals with a certain bias? Maybe, you expect the most of them to be garbage and by doing so overlook some good ones? There have been a lot of bad proposals passed. I am just suggesting that maybe you're throwing good ones out with the rest of the garbage and that the VAST majority of delegates aren't doing their jobs. You are an unsignificant minority. I appreciate what you do, and continue doing it, but it's the ones that don't do their job that i'm not hearing from. They need to be removed. Any suggestions, or comments? I really do appreciate your replies.

Not everyone checks the forum every five minutes. Some of us just haven't seen the topic yet.

Yes, I do expect most proposals to be garbage, and that expectation is borne out. However, the fact that I expect most proposals in a group to be garbage does not mean that I expect each individual proposal to be garbage. I read at least the title of each proposal. If the title claims to be working toward a viable goal with which I agree, I begin to read the body. If the body proves both reasonable and readable until I finish it, then I endorse it. Otherwise, I move on to the next one. I don't know how to prove to you that I give each proposal due consideration, nor do I believe that I should be required to do so. Personally, I think it's a little arrogant for you to accuse a thousand people you've never met of being lazy, inefficient, and irrational, then demand that we explain ourselves to you, when you haven't even bothered to compile what information you have readily available to you (specifically, the list of nations who have approved each proposal currently in the list) in order to determine whether your accusations are of any merit.

Not everyone checks the forum every five minutes. Some of us just haven't seen the topic yet.


Speaking of anachronisms on the forum, I'm just kind of surprised that this topic is being given more attention after two months of inactivity. I mean, your rebuttle is good, and I think you're right. But I'm not sure Viznajev is even likely to be around the forums, or in the UN, or even a nation anymore.

But to second your post, I, too, believe that delegates have done their job as well as can be reasonably expected of them. If I were delegate I think I would personally check the proposal list regularly, but in general there is no requirement for delegates to do so. It's a consumers market out there (the delegates being the consmers of whatever product/proposal you create), if one wants customers, one's going to have to get them one's self. Expecting delegates to come to one's product without provocation isn't good business. And its not good proposal campaigning.

But I'm not sure Viznajev is even likely to be around the forums, or in the UN, or even a nation anymore.
Uh-oh
Nation Not Found: "Viznajev"
It isn't really gravedigging if you're adding a valid point, but be aware that you won't get a response from the author.

Oops, sorry. Must've misread the date of the last reply. Sorry about that.