NationStates Jolt Archive

This repeal and replacement set for the resolution "DVD Region Removal" were drafted mainly by Macisikan, and also by me, Jjuulliiaann.

This is not submitted yet.

How do they sound?


REPEAL:


Description: UN Resolution #5: DVD Region Remvoal (Category: Free Trade; Strength: Mild) shall be struck out and rendered null and void.


Argument: The resolution as it currently stands is too poorly worded, phrased and unwieldy to remain in place; leaving aside grammatical and spelling errors, legally the resolution is unworkable due to its lack of clarity. The issue that it deals with, though a relatively minor one, nevertheless has far too many wide-ranging effects and consequences to remain under such an unsound resolution.

Therefore it should be repealed, and replaced with a more soundly worded one.



REPLACEMENT:


The NationStates that combined make up the United Nations

RECOGNISING that Resolution #5, DVD Region Removal (Jan 17 2003) is poorly phrased, composed and written

NOTING that such poor phrasing, composition and wording is unacceptable for such an important matter, due to its unsound legal nature,

NOTING FURTHER that the resolution's intent, to boost trade and commerce between the nations, is beneficial to the NationStates of the United Nations,

REAFFIRMING the intent of Resolution #5, that there should be only one DVD region code,

DECLARES ACCORDINGLY that there shall be one, and only one, worldwide DVD Region Code for those NationStates that comprise the United Nations,

and FURTHER DECLARES that this resolution affecting Region Codes applies to all such digital media including all forms of CD, Compact Flash and Smart Media.



Feel free to give me suggestions and edits before I submit it.



EDIT: The repeal has been submitted. Please support it.

I think both the repeal and replacement are well written. One exception: requiring one region code makes no sense, as one is the same as none. It makes more sense to say there should be no region codes.

I actually would not propose a replacement. This is a RL issue at best, relating to RL technology. The ban also ignores the reasons why region codes are used and interferes with intellectual property. [It may be that those in NS are passionate enough about region codes in RL that a replacement here is politically necessary, but it still does not make sense.]

Good luck.

I feel stupid, but what are regional codes?

From http://corpinfo.universalstudios.com/faqs.asp?section=HV :


Each player is given a code for the region in which it's sold. The player will refuse to play discs that are not allowed in that region. This means that discs bought in one country may not play on players bought in another country.

Regional coding is not an encryption system, it's just one byte of information on the disc that the player checks. Region codes are a permanent part of the disc, they won't "unlock" after a period of time.

There are 8 regions (also called "locales"). Players and discs are identified by the region number superimposed on a world globe. If a disc plays in more than one region it will have more than one number on the globe.

U.S., Canada, U.S. Territories
Japan, Europe, South Africa, and Middle East (including Egypt)
Southeast Asia and East Asia (including Hong Kong)
Australia, New Zealand, Pacific Islands, Central America, Mexico, South America, and the Caribbean
Eastern Europe (Former Soviet Union), Indian subcontinent, Africa, North Korea, and Mongolia
China
Reserved
Special international venues (airplanes, cruise ships, etc.)

Technically, there is no such thing as a region 0 disc or a region 0 player. There are, however, all-region discs. There are also all-region players. That is, some players can be modified to play discs regardless of the regional codes on the disc. The main reasons for regional coding are to prevent the theatrical release of a title in one region being jeopardized by imports of DVDs from other regions, and to protect the interests of foreign distributors.

Thx, but now im appALED such a thing exists seem like censor ship to me. Im gonna get it removed from my player.

I will submit the repeal later this week, unless anyone has any suggestions. I will incorporate those suggestions that I have already seen tomorrow.

Notifies the black marketeering division they might have to alter regional formats back to "the old ways" should this pass

I'd be happy with a repeal and no replacement. I really don't see how DVDs should concern the UN.

Agreed. The whole issue of DVDs strikes me as more of a "Hippos Are Large" thing. Just repeal it and leave it be.

Agreed. The whole issue of DVDs strikes me as more of a "Hippos Are Large" thing. Just repeal it and leave it be.
I'm surprised it hasn't been repealed already, myself.

I concur with the representative from Neo-Anarchists. We've always found that resolution a bit hard to implement due to its shoddy language.

[Lord] Michael Evif
Goobergunchian UN Ambassador
Current UN Nation: Bawlmer

If there are no further comments, I will submit it later tonight.

I hope that you will all be approving it.

It's an affront to freedom of speech and freedom of expression, and should be treated as such and voted down.

It's an affront to freedom of speech and freedom of expression, and should be treated as such and voted down.
This repeal should be defeated?
Why? I really don't understand how this has anything to do with freedom of expression...
Sorry.

If there are different region codes on DVD, then the contents of the DVD can vary as well (this happens a lot in real life). So what if the government choses to use the region code as a region to alter a film.

Say there is a film produced in TilEnca that exposes the truth about GeminiLand's leader - that once he ran over a puppy! The leader of GeminiLand would not wan t this to come out (because it would ruin him), so he bans the distribution of the DVD in GeminiLand. And because there are now lots of region codes, no one in GeminiLand can get a copy of the film from another region.

This is a trivial example, but expand to include films about the Dark Review in TilEnca, and (ooc) the Holocaust, and the ability to get unedited versions of the film becomes more important.

If there are no region DVD codes then it is a lot harder to censor DVDs, as people can get them from anywhere.

So - freedom of speech would be compromised by repealing this resolution.

If you add to that the insane cost of it, it only gives more reason to stop it being repealed.

Don't be silly, repealing this resolution has no effect on free speech. If it isn't a regional code, some dictator will find other ways of preventing a DVD from entering the market. If you care about free speech, it should be done through a free speech resolution.

I am all for repealing the DVD resolution, and will urge my delegate to approve it. While the UN can speak on these matters, it is a waste of time, as this is a purely commercial issue.

Don't be silly, repealing this resolution has no effect on free speech. If it isn't a regional code, some dictator will find other ways of preventing a DVD from entering the market. If you care about free speech, it should be done through a free speech resolution.

I am all for repealing the DVD resolution, and will urge my delegate to approve it. While the UN can speak on these matters, it is a waste of time, as this is a purely commercial issue.

But by ensuring that only the DVDs he releases can be viewed, he severly limiting what sort of things his people can see. If they have access to DVDs that are not under his control, there is more freedom of speech in the nation.

But by ensuring that only the DVDs he releases can be viewed, he severly limiting what sort of things his people can see. If they have access to DVDs that are not under his control, there is more freedom of speech in the nation.

Groot Grouda is correct that the censorship scenarios you imagine could be accomplished in any number of ways without DVD codes. If a dictator can control both the type of DVDs available in his nation (i.e., only his approved version with a specific region code) and the type of DVD players available in his nations (i.e., only players capable of playing his region code), he has ample ability to censor movies without the codes. On the other hand, if a dictator's citizens are capable of obtaining bootleg copies of DVDs that are uncensored, NS's technology should allow them to view them. At a minimum, there are players that will play any region code and ways to hack around a region code.

Region codes are put into place by the original speaker (i.e., moviemaker) and are a protection of speech, intellectual property, and commerce. The speaker determines when and how his/her/its message will be heard. The speaker protects his/her/its message from distribution and copying that deprive the speaker of control, profits, etc. I'm not a huge fan of region codes, but they serve legitimate purposes and (more importantly) cannot be considered some huge menace.

This is not a UN issue. Even if it was, the current resolution is poorly drafted. Support the repeal.

If free speech is a concern for the UN membership , I would be happy to help and write a proposal to promote free speech. (I'll have to make sure it hasn't already been done before. I'll take a look at the passed resolutions list and see what I can dig up.)

Edit: The Universal Bill of Rights seems to cover the free speech issue.

Article 2 -- All human beings have the right to express themselves through speech and through the media without any interference.

This is not a UN issue. Even if it was, the current resolution is poorly drafted. Support the repeal.
I highly doubt that you'll change TilEnca's mind, in fact I don't think I've ever seen TilEnca support a repeal.

I highly doubt that you'll change TilEnca's mind, in fact I don't think I've ever seen TilEnca support a repeal.

It's not cause I dislike repeals in general. Just so far they have either not been of any value, counter productive or immoral and evil :}

(If you are curious, this falls under the counter productive clause)

I think I supported repealing the axis of evil, if that is any help :}

At the moment it is a fair bet that there is no regional coding program in any UN dvd player, because this resolution has been in place for nearly two, maybe three years.

So to suddenly allow people to create regional dvds would lead to everyone needing to buy a new dvd player to support regional coding. And a whole new black market in people bypassing the regional coding. And it would provide no benifit to the general public, as they will just have to fork out lots and lots of money to deal with the new regional coding.

This is not going to solve any problems there aren't any at the moment, but will give birth to a new criminal empire, and will cost the average citizen a fair amount of money.

How is it a good thing?

(I admit the censorship arguement was not my strongest, but it's still true)

I'd be happy with a repeal and no replacement. I really don't see how DVDs should concern the UN.
Agreed.

Mathieu Vergniaud
Deputy Speaker to the UN

TilEnca, I have great respect for you, but it does seem you are arguing for the point of arguing.

At the moment it is a fair bet that there is no regional coding program in any UN dvd player, because this resolution has been in place for nearly two, maybe three years.

So to suddenly allow people to create regional dvds would lead to everyone needing to buy a new dvd player to support regional coding. And a whole new black market in people bypassing the regional coding. And it would provide no benifit to the general public, as they will just have to fork out lots and lots of money to deal with the new regional coding.

This is not going to solve any problems there aren't any at the moment, but will give birth to a new criminal empire, and will cost the average citizen a fair amount of money.

How is it a good thing?

(I admit the censorship arguement was not my strongest, but it's still true)

Texan Hotrodders has already noted your censorship argument is already prevented by other UN resolutions.

The makers of movies, as an NS industry, may or may not wish to use region codes. Repealing the prohibition is not the same as suddenly implementing the codes. The poor drafting of the resolution is a good basis for repeal, even if one agreed with it in principle.

Your new argument is based on false assumptions about how region codes work. [As I noted earlier a major flaw in the resolution is that it addresses a RL issue and makes RL assumptions. It does not define what region codes are or how they work. We can only assume the prohibited region codes are analogous to RL region codes.] Region codes rely on players that are based on industry standards and are set to play only DVDs with certain codes. So, your hypothesis points out that region codes will not do a great deal of good for the NS movie industry at this point. It is not true, however, that suddenly no one will be able to play DVDs.

I still do not see why a movie maker should not be able to protect his/her/its copyright and seek to maximize its control over release timing (and thereby profits) using region codes.

Also, I would note there are multiple other technologies similar to region codes that are unaffected by this resolution. [In RL there are multiple layers of protections of which region codes are just one. In NS, they are likely many more.]

Why protect a poorly written, unworthy resolution? Repeal.

I think these two points are valid, and plan to oppose the resolution repeal. But I am one nation with almost no power, and have no doubt that if the repeal comes to the vote it will pass.

I think these two points are valid, and plan to oppose the resolution repeal. But I am one nation with almost no power, and have no doubt that if the repeal comes to the vote it will pass.

I do not wish to force further debate, but I do not understand how you can maintain either point and I wish to make that clear to other nations who may be undecided.

If censorship is banned in all cases, it cannot be done through region codes. (Not that I concede region codes could be used in this way in the first place.)

As region coding would not prevent any new region-coded DVD from playing in any existing DVD player, the premise of your second point is invalid.

You are, of course, entitled to your own opinion and I know you are capable of defending it if you feel the need. I'm done.

The repeal has been submitted.

The final version reads:The resolution as it currently stands is too poorly worded, phrased and unwieldy to remain in place; leaving aside grammatical and spelling errors, legally the resolution is unworkable due to its lack of clarity. The issue that it deals with, though a relatively minor one, nevertheless has far too many wide-ranging effects and consequences to remain under such an unsound resolution.

Therefore it should be repealed, and replaced with a more soundly worded one.

Repeal by Macisikan; edited and submitted by Jjuulliiaann.

Oh my goddess.

I get repealing it for economic reasons. I get for reasons of free trade. I even get for reasons of natural sovereignty.

But to repeal it because it is badly written, with a plan to replace it with another one?

What in the name of The Lords is the point?

(edit)

Which I guess proves I didn't read the original post. But eh - sue me.

Oh my goddess.

I get repealing it for economic reasons. I get for reasons of free trade. I even get for reasons of natural sovereignty.

But to repeal it because it is badly written, with a plan to replace it with another one?

What in the name of The Lords is the point?

(edit)

Which I guess proves I didn't read the original post. But eh - sue me.

Well, if you don't want it replaced, just vote for the repeal and not the replacement.


Please note, however, that the replacement expands the original to include other forms of digital media.

Well, if you don't want it replaced, just vote for the repeal and not the replacement.


Please note, however, that the replacement expands the original to include other forms of digital media.

I don't want it repealed at all!! What ever made you think I would support a repeal?

I don't want it repealed at all!!Well then that is your choice, and I respect it. What ever made you think I would support a repeal?This:I get repealing it for economic reasons. I get for reasons of free trade. I even get for reasons of natural sovereignty.

Ah.

That just meant I understood repealing it for those reasons. Not that I supported it :}

Ah.

That just meant I understood repealing it for those reasons. Not that I supported it :}Oh. OK. I misunderstood. Sorry.

I hope that everyone is going to approve the repeal (although I know that TilEnca won't).

Oh. OK. I misunderstood. Sorry.

I hope that everyone is going to approve the repeal (although I know that TilEnca won't).

If it's any consolation, I have no power to approve it anyway!

If it's any consolation, I have no power to approve it anyway!Hehe. Well, if it is any consolation to you, I have no power to approve it either although I plan to soon... **plots secretly** !:D

Actually, I'd like to have a blanket resolution covering all forms of "Copy-Control" (especially the more egregious and anti-consumer forms) instead of having just one about DVD regioning. It should be one limiting copy protection to only preventing mass redistribution and not any possible private use of the product (e.g. the burning of CD's for playlists). Something of this nature is definitely important, as it deals with overall consumer rights, and thus should be addressed by the UN (unless this already is...I'm not sure).

At the moment it is a fair bet that there is no regional coding program in any UN dvd player, because this resolution has been in place for nearly two, maybe three years.

So to suddenly allow people to create regional dvds would lead to everyone needing to buy a new dvd player to support regional coding.

Wrong. No regional coding, whatever that is in NS, exists, so it cannot be enforced by vendors (we're talking companies here - it's not a government issue, strictly speaking) if nobody has a player that actually know what a regional code is. In other words, nobody can simply introduce regional codes without huge problems in terms of distribution. It wouldn't sell.

As for your censorship issue: there's more to life than DVDs. As for your economic reasons: trust me, companies will do whatever sells best. If that means regional codes, let them, as it will improve the economy. As for national sovereignity: let the nations decide what to do with DVDs.

Actually, I'd like to have a blanket resolution covering all forms of "Copy-Control" (especially the more egregious and anti-consumer forms) instead of having just one about DVD regioning. It should be one limiting copy protection to only preventing mass redistribution and not any possible private use of the product (e.g. the burning of CD's for playlists). Something of this nature is definitely important, as it deals with overall consumer rights, and thus should be addressed by the UN (unless this already is...I'm not sure).

We have a Universal Copyright Law. Wouldn't this fall under that?

No it doesn't. It's just a law that states "a copyright in one area is the same as one in another". There's nothing to protect customers from "copyright abuse", my term for extreme copy protection.

Update:

Approvals: 12 (Grays Harbor, WZ Forums, Flibbleites, Mno kee Terbel, Arendstan, Golden Rangeria, Maraque, Melmond, Benignant Neglect, The Great Bud, New Akana, Al-Zar)

Status: Lacking Support (requires 134 more approvals)

Voting Ends: Sun Feb 27 2005

Update:

Approvals: 15 (Grays Harbor, WZ Forums, Flibbleites, Mno kee Terbel, Arendstan, Golden Rangeria, Maraque, Melmond, Benignant Neglect, The Great Bud, New Akana, Al-Zar, NewTexas, Pennsylvania and Me, Smurfenstein)

Status: Lacking Support (requires 132 more approvals)

Voting Ends: Sun Feb 27 2005

Update:

Approvals: 17 (Grays Harbor, WZ Forums, Flibbleites, Mno kee Terbel, Arendstan, Golden Rangeria, Maraque, Melmond, Benignant Neglect, The Great Bud, New Akana, Al-Zar, NewTexas, Pennsylvania and Me, Smurfenstein, RichyWorld, Gasattack)

Status: Lacking Support (requires 130 more approvals)

Voting Ends: Sun Feb 27 2005


This is very sad. Our proposal seems doomed to fail. I shall re-write it and then re-submit it.