NationStates Jolt Archive

I submitted a proposal recently and I hope that the UN delegates approve it

Name: Vaccinations For All
Category: Human Rights (I couldn't find a better category)
Strength: Strong

OBSERVING that some nations have lower standards of living for their poor because of disease, and

REALIZING that some nations do not have high quality healthcare budgets, we

PROPOSE that vaccinations are given to all people for no amount of money.

Terms:
1. If needed, the wealthier will be taxed to allow for research and development
2. A person is not required to be vaccinated if they do not want to be

I submitted a proposal recently and I hope that the UN delegates approve it

Name: Vaccinations For All
Category: Human Rights (I couldn't find a better category)
Strength: Strong

OBSERVING that some nations have lower standards of living for their poor because of disease, and

REALIZING that some nations do not have high quality healthcare budgets, we

PROPOSE that vaccinations are given to all people for no amount of money.

Terms:
1. If needed, the wealthier will be taxed to allow for research and development
2. A person is not required to be vaccinated if they do not want to be


I would disagree with the second part. While I admit some diseases - mumps etc - might not require forced vacination, I think that others - AIDS (should one exist), smallpox, TB and so forth should not be voluntary - they should be mandatory.

When this came up as an issue, we chose to go down the route of offering free vaccinations, but anyone who chose not to take them lost their claim to free healthcare.

I would say I was closer to being in favour of making them compulsory than making them voluntary, but probably lie somwhere in between.

However, I would not support this proposal as I dislike its ideas on financing.

I would disagree with the second part. While I admit some diseases - mumps etc - might not require forced vacination, I think that others - AIDS (should one exist), smallpox, TB and so forth should not be voluntary - they should be mandatory.

Except not all species in NS can get those diseases. HIV is limited to humanity and its variants while at the same time being so mutagenic all attempts at vaccines have failed (the vaccines don't work because HIV mutates too much), smallpox is easily eradicated, and several others tend to die out when people improve their way of life. Hell, the bubonic plague isn't even much of a threat to many nations anymore.

You need to go into more detail. What do nations do if somebody has patented the vaccine? What diseases are we going to offer universal vaccination for? Can poor nations, which may not actually be able to afford universal vaccination programs even with reasonable tax raises, get international aid funding? If so, who decides which nations are deserving and of how much? What about DLE's point that not all diseases can affect all species in the UN?

As for the cATERGORY maby social justice? Also, if you were to make some madatory you need to give an exemption for health or religous reasons.

As for the cATERGORY maby social justice? Also, if you were to make some madatory you need to give an exemption for health or religous reasons.
He did.

Except not all species in NS can get those diseases. HIV is limited to humanity and its variants while at the same time being so mutagenic all attempts at vaccines have failed (the vaccines don't work because HIV mutates too much), smallpox is easily eradicated, and several others tend to die out when people improve their way of life. Hell, the bubonic plague isn't even much of a threat to many nations anymore.

They were examples :} And if nature teaches us anything, it teaches us that sooner or later there will be a disease that will kill every form of life you can imagine. And that is something that should be mandatory.

How about the nation gets to decide on a list of diseases that all of it's population must be innoculated against?

They were examples :} And if nature teaches us anything, it teaches us that sooner or later there will be a disease that will kill every form of life you can imagine. And that is something that should be mandatory.

If nature teaches us anything, it's that disease won't be the cause of life's end. A universal disease is impossible; it would have to manage to cover opposing biologies and even creatures that are biological. Not all forms of life are both organic and corporeal.

How about the nation gets to decide on a list of diseases that all of it's population must be innoculated against?

The potential for abuse...

I think the real issue here is should the vaccinations be mandatory.
I personally have an irrational fear of needles. However i am a reasonable person and i can bear the thought of a moment with the dreaded pin rather than the consequences of not being vaccinated. I also have two small children and i would not hesitate to have then innoculated against the multiplicity of deseases that threathen their health and happiness.

Remember members of the UN that it was the Vaccination programme that removed the threat of smallpox, one of the greatest scourges visited on mankind.

This proposal shall fly high or fall on the sword of Mandatory Vaccination.

Venerable Libertarians.

If nature teaches us anything, it's that disease won't be the cause of life's end. A universal disease is impossible; it would have to manage to cover opposing biologies and even creatures that are biological. Not all forms of life are both organic and corporeal.


I am not convinced about it being impossible, and I accept it won't be the end of life as we know it.

(RL - Bird Flue has the potential for destroying most of the world)


The potential for abuse...

In comparrison to the good?

I think the real issue here is should the vaccinations be mandatory.
I personally have an irrational fear of needles. However i am a reasonable person and i can bear the thought of a moment with the dreaded pin rather than the consequences of not being vaccinated. I also have two small children and i would not hesitate to have then innoculated against the multiplicity of deseases that threathen their health and happiness.

Everything threatens their health and happiness. You can't protect against most of it.

Remember members of the UN that it was the Vaccination programme that removed the threat of smallpox, one of the greatest scourges visited on mankind.

OOC: I assume you meant that OOCly.

Smallpox has been pretty much eradicated. The only supplies of it left are those maintained in storage, and those would be easy to be rid of. The only danger is some nutjob in a position with access to them, such as the President of the U.S. (one of the nations with smallpox in storage), deciding to unleash it again.

This proposal shall fly high or fall on the sword of Mandatory Vaccination.

IC:

Mandatory vaccinations are a problem we have been discussing. Try going over the presented arguements on here first.

I am not convinced about it being impossible, and I accept it won't be the end of life as we know it.

(RL - Bird Flue has the potential for destroying most of the world)

It's a physical impossibility due to the differences in species. We have creatures that are corporeal but lack any form of biology, being entirely machines, and creatures that are immune to diseases because they don't have physical bodies to be infected with. And then there's living planets and a whole mess of others.

In comparrison to the good?

Easily.

HIV is limited to humanity and its variants while at the same time being so mutagenic all attempts at vaccines have failed (the vaccines don't work because HIV mutates too much)
OOC: Just as a scientific note, there's currently an HIV vaccine undergoing clinical trials in ... India, I believe. I'm not saying that it's necessarily going to work, but the fact that they've gotten to this point, where people are willing to risk their lives to test the efficacy of the vaccine says something about the potential for a vaccine anyhow.

IC: Interesting debate. It's mandatory within Mousebumples, anyhow, to be vaccinated against a great majority of diseases, and this could be an interesting concept for the UN to tackle. I'll try to stop back later and give more helpful feedback. :)

OOC: Just as a scientific note, there's currently an HIV vaccine undergoing clinical trials in ... India, I believe. I'm not saying that it's necessarily going to work, but the fact that they've gotten to this point, where people are willing to risk their lives to test the efficacy of the vaccine says something about the potential for a vaccine anyhow.

OOC: If this were the first time such an attempt has gotten that far, it would be hope. But this is the twelfth time that I have heard of. I shouldn't have to state the results of the previous eleven.

The virus is too adaptive for a vaccine to work by all appearances. And now, the flu virus may be becomming the same way. In the past three years the effectiveness of flu vaccinations has started to drop. It's due to the flu virus mutating a new form too fast for a vaccine to be used or the current form mutating enough while infecting people for the vaccines to have a reduced effect. We're about due for a superflu anyway, so this is no surprise.

IC: Interesting debate. It's mandatory within Mousebumples, anyhow, to be vaccinated against a great majority of diseases, and this could be an interesting concept for the UN to tackle. I'll try to stop back later and give more helpful feedback. :)

It would be an interesting concept, but there are still the problems of biology that I have brought up.

I think that others - AIDS (should one exist), smallpox, TB and so forth should not be voluntary - they should be mandatory.

It should be remembered that vaccinations carry their own risks. Whilst the chances of anything severe occurring due to the vaccine are miniscule compared to the risk of anything severe occurring due to getting the disease, I don't think it would be fair to force people to have treatment that they don't necessarily want.

I wouldn't oppose a resolution based on this point, as I think the more people are vaccinated against disease, the better it is for society. I just don't think people should be forced to have treatment. With education, the majority of people may choose to have a vaccine anyway, so leaving just a few unvaccinated members of society, which would not leave the society vulnerable to disease.

(RL - Bird Flue has the potential for destroying most of the world)

Since the strains of bird flu that have been appearing don't cause 100% mortality, a new strain probably won't kill an entire species, especially as it won't be transmitted to every member of the species. Also, some individuals will be resistant enough to fight off the disease.

However, if the virus becomes sufficiently contagious, the death toll could top the billion mark. Not quite most of the world, though.

It should be remembered that vaccinations carry their own risks. Whilst the chances of anything severe occurring due to the vaccine are miniscule compared to the risk of anything severe occurring due to getting the disease, I don't think it would be fair to force people to have treatment that they don't necessarily want.


It's a calculated risk. If you don't vacinate someone against small pox, then they could kill hundreds of people in a month. Should they be permitted to have that choice?


Since the strains of bird flu that have been appearing don't cause 100% mortality, a new strain probably won't kill an entire species, especially as it won't be transmitted to every member of the species. Also, some individuals will be resistant enough to fight off the disease.

However, if the virus becomes sufficiently contagious, the death toll could top the billion mark. Not quite most of the world, though.

What is the population of the world at the moment? One site estimated it at 6.5 billion. So I would say that a billion people does constitute something about which we should be concerned.

So I would say that a billion people does constitute something about which we should be concerned.

I wasn't saying it was nothing to worry about! I was just saying that it won't be the death of the human species! Anyway, maybe this planet could do with a few billion less people on it...

I agree that manadatory vaccinations would be more beneficial to society as a whole than if they were voluntary. I just think it might infringe upon an individual's rights. I certainly wouldn't want to have treatment forced upon me, even if my any fears I had about that treatment were irrational. If these diseases are not hugely threatening ATM (in many states I would guess that healthcare is good enough to contain outbreaks and a lot of diseases can be controlled in a way that doesn't require vaccination e.g. quarantine), why start getting panicky and sacrificing rights?

I probably should have made it more specific. Developing nations could be supplied with the vaccines for deadly diseases by foreign powers in exchange for some sort of goods. In the real world, a lot of 3rd world nations are very rich in resources. I agree with nations coming up on the list of vaccines. Perhaps a large coalition of scientists and biomedical engineers formed by the UN would help solve some of the problem of research and development. No one nation could horde their vaccines.

Actually, I think certain nations should horde their vaccines, but only due to compatibility issues. One particular DLE vaccine has been found (accidentally) to be lethal to humans, due to genetic differences. And that's among two closely related species.

I just think it might infringe upon an individual's rights. I certainly wouldn't want to have treatment forced upon me, even if my any fears I had about that treatment were irrational.

Like I said - it would/should depend on what you are being innoculated against. I think that even if it is scary, vacinating someone against smallpox, sars, the black death and bird flu should superceed that person's right to chose, because their choice has the potential to kill millions.

Actually, I think certain nations should horde their vaccines, but only due to compatibility issues. One particular DLE vaccine has been found (accidentally) to be lethal to humans, due to genetic differences. And that's among two closely related species.

That's true. Maybe we could test the vaccines on people who are willing to be tested (so no person would be tested against their will, which is unethical and immoral). Vaccines that are compatible to everyone should be developed at least. And in the particular case of the DLE vaccine, are you sure it was incompatibility? It's possible it was caused by an unsterilized needle, etc.

That's true. Maybe we could test the vaccines on people who are willing to be tested (so no person would be tested against their will, which is unethical and immoral). Vaccines that are compatible to everyone should be developed at least. And in the particular case of the DLE vaccine, are you sure it was incompatibility? It's possible it was caused by an unsterilized needle, etc.

We're sure. The vaccine was designed to target a particular degenerative disease among Sarkarasetans. When accidentally tested on humans, the vaccine caused their immune systems to misinterpret red blood cells as being viral agents. The results were irreversible. The suggestion is that certain junk material in human DNA that was dropped during the evolution to Sarkarasetans is also present in the degenerative disease.

Actually, I think certain nations should horde their vaccines, but only due to compatibility issues. One particular DLE vaccine has been found (accidentally) to be lethal to humans, due to genetic differences. And that's among two closely related species.

umm feline aids? (OOC)

umm feline aids? (OOC)

Not anywhere close.

srry DLE I pasted worng quote

HIV is limited to humanity and its variants

what about Feline Aids?

srry DLE I pasted worng quote



what about Feline Aids?

Slightly different variant of the main virus. Same with SIDS.

This thread should be disbanded due to lack of support from the UN delegates. The voting ends today.

I am of the opinion that worldwide vaccinations should be mandated, however whether or not they are paid should be up to the government. In my nation for example we would prefer that vaccinations be mandatory but at a cost to keep the economy going strong.

I am of the opinion that worldwide vaccinations should be mandated, however whether or not they are paid should be up to the government. In my nation for example we would prefer that vaccinations be mandatory but at a cost to keep the economy going strong.

Try responding to the concerns I have brought up about it.