NationStates Jolt Archive

My fellow UN members!

Accusations of genocide in the evile tyranny of Loratana have been presented to the UN.

The Oppressed Peoples of Asshelmetta call for 13 nations to volunteer to sit on The Pretenama Panel to weigh these charges and consider intervention in Loratana along with Asshelmetta and honored Krioval, who seconded the motion for TPP.

Loratana objects strongly to this and calls for sanctions against Asshelmetta for their pernicious deed in attempting to destroy our nation, both physically and now here. There is no human rights problem in Loratana - if anything, the problem lies in Asshelmetta's attempt to use this organization to his own advantage. He/She accused Loratana of this heinous crime because he/she wishes to keep his/her "world benchmark" human rights status at the expense of the children of the world, who would be positively affected by a certain moral decency proposal authored by Loratana. Then, after flaming Loratana, he/she launched nuclear missiles to destroy us: The Oppressed Peoples of Asshelmetta have just launched our full compliment of nuclear missiles at the perfidious "Democratic States" of Loratana.. Thusly, we call for an end to this charade and for sanctions to begin at once against the Oppressed Peoples of Asshelmetta.

I would like to be considered. As an independant and with no allegiance to another The federation of Venerable Libertarians is Ideally placed to sit on a panel like this.

Nargopia enthusiastically volunteers to sit on the panel.

The Community of Gnomewatchers would be very interested in observing and/or participating in the formation of the first Pretenama Panel. This has potential.

Although we have not been a particularly visible member of this organisation, I assure you that we have much to contribute. As our first suggestion, perhaps you could outline the nature of the offenses of Loratana?

The rules are clear that we need 15 members before we get into details.

If recent reports of a massive, near-simultaneous, multi-pronged nuclear attack on Loratana from several nationstates are true, we may be too late to do anything about this anyway.

The Community of Gnomewatchers would be very interested in observing and/or participating in the formation of the first Pretenama Panel. This has potential.

Although we have not been a particularly visible member of this organisation, I assure you that we have much to contribute. As our first suggestion, perhaps you could outline the nature of the offenses of Loratana?

As per the conditions of forming the Pretanama Panel, Krioval is unable to disclose details of the accusation in public, where the accused might be able to refute or otherwise defend them. After all, the attempt to justify tyranny would simply waste all the honored delegates' time and delay needed intervention.

Krioval, that is absurd. If I cannot refute the claims made against me, how is it possible that this is fair? I believe that you are so closely allied with Asshelmetta that it makes no difference what he says, you'll just go along with it. And now for a request: READ MY EDIT.

Before this idea turns into another flamewar, please read this post (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=8209899&postcount=13).

OOC: What in the nine Hells is the Pretenama Panel? And where can I read about the specifics?

The nations who have endorsed me as their delegate will all be members of TPP. They have all agreed to let my vote stand for theirs.

I believe we are close to quorum - any other delegates may also vote in lieu of their endorsers.

Asshelmetta - 9 members
Krioval - 7 members
Venerable Libertarians - 4 members
Nargopia - 12 members

This fulfills our maximum quota of 30 representatives.
The panel is convened.

Krioval, that is absurd. If I cannot refute the claims made against me, how is it possible that this is fair? I believe that you are so closely allied with Asshelmetta that it makes no difference what he says, you'll just go along with it. And now for a request: READ MY EDIT.

The delegate from Krioval is hardly shocked, but is dismayed by the accusations from the delegate from Loratana. As this process is officially sanctioned by the United Nations from the ironclad resolution just recently passed by over sixty-six percent of eligible votes, I am appalled that its invocation would cause such an uproar. I simply agree with my colleague from Asshelmetta that there are certain disturbing facts that need to be presented to our panel in a location where we will not be disturbed. Rest assured that, if nothing is out of the ordinary, Loratana will be fully exonerated.

Lord Darvek Tyvok
UN Ambassador - Krioval
Regional Delegate - Chaotica
--------------
OOC: Just FYI, this is roleplay. It's definitely something Darvek would engage in, and he'd play it up for all it's worth. As for Asshelmetta, I've only conversed with him (is that the right gender?) over the past few days - we're hardly secret perfect allies - yet. :D

Article 2:The Pretenama Panel (TPP)

§1. TPP is a body that can be instituted by the UN when it requires it. It is not a standing panel, but one that is created when the UN requires its services. More than one TPP can be operational at the same time.
§2. TPP is made up of representatives from fifteen UN member nations. These representatives must be diplomats, or lawyers. Each nation can supply only two members to TPP. No nation can serve on more than one TPP at the same time. The members of TPP can be challenged by those accused as well as the accusers, as the independence of TPP is paramount.
§3. TPP is granted all the powers it requires to investigate Genocide and try people for the crime. It will have the powers to demand the extradition of suspects, witnesses and other people connected with the crime they are investigating. If the extradition is challenged TPP must show proof of the requirement. This power can only extend to the extradition from UN member nations.
§4. TPP will meet in a location decided by its members. The nation hosting TPP will be required to provide adequate security.

HAHAHA. VERY FUNNY (once again, I'm not talking to you, Venerable Libertarians). Let's get someone in here to mod this. Nowhere in the resolution does it say that the TPP must not be public. I demand to know what nation accuses me of this heinous crime, although I believe that I already know. Also, for Asshelmetta, whom I believe to be the accuser, either as Asshelmetta or as another nation he/she controls, and who is at war with me, to have eighteen votes (that's control, people)... this is over before it begins. I question the validity of this panel and demand that, should you proceed, you include the Empire of Novus Arcadia, my regional delegate.

OOC: We have successfully perverted sections 1 and 2.
Suggestions on how to undermine section 3?

p.s. had I known that Pixiedance was going to make a cameo in Hersfold's thread, I would have stuck with plan A and made this an inquest into Cathyy.

OOC: What in the nine Hells is the Pretenama Panel? And where can I read about the specifics?
You can read all about it in the EON Convention on page 6 of Passed Resolutions.

OK, I challenge the validity of this hearing if the Opressed Peoples of Asshelmetta is on the panel, and especially if he controls it, since he recently (within the past few hours) attempted to destroy my nation with his full arsenal of nuclear missiles just because I proposed a moral decency resolution.

The Community of Gnomewatchers would be very interested in observing and/or participating in the formation of the first Pretenama Panel. This has potential.

Although we have not been a particularly visible member of this organisation, I assure you that we have much to contribute. As our first suggestion, perhaps you could outline the nature of the offenses of Loratana?
No offense intended, but we had already filled the maximum number of seats allowed. Please accompany us as an observer.

OOC: As for perverting point 4...(I'll get to 3)

IC:

I think the Panel should convene in [secret IC] Krioval [/secret IC].

On unrelated notes, I think that border security has suddenly become more important to our Commander, and I thought that I'd let all nations know so as to allow extra time to enter Krioval.

Members, let us get down to business.

Please telegram me and we'll discuss a suitable venue for this inquest, without unwanted and unwarranted interruptions.

ONCE AGAIN, I QUESTION THE VALIDITY OF THIS PANEL, SINCE ASSHELMETTA IS ON IT AND SINCE THERE ARE ONLY FIVE NATIONS ON THE PANEL, AND DEMAND THAT THE EMPIRE OF NOVUS ARCADIA BE INCLUDED SHOULD YOU PROCEED.

ooc: please don't make me take this up with the NS admins.

As, per Resolution Ninety-Two, namely the clause stating "it will be the UN committee who votes on whether an action is appropriate", I hereby announce my intention to chair "the UN committee" as mentioned in the resolution. Also included will be Asshelmetta, Nargopia, and Venerable Litertarians. Further applicants will be evaluated on a case-by-case basis by those already serving in the committee.

~ Darvek

OOC: And that takes care of the relevant clause in Res. 92

What is the proper title of your nation so i may tg you asshelmetta?

Sorry, Venerable Libertarians, but your post was proof that you are going on with this perversion of the resolution. Prepare for a visit from the mods.

What is the proper title of your nation so i may tg you asshelmetta?
The Oppressed Peoples of Asshelmetta
but in the nation lookup box, just "Asshelmetta".

As, per Resolution Ninety-Two, namely the clause stating "it will be the UN committee who votes on whether an action is appropriate", I hereby announce my intention to chair "the UN committee" as mentioned in the resolution. Also included will be Asshelmetta, Nargopia, and Venerable Litertarians. Further applicants will be evaluated on a case-by-case basis by those already serving in the committee.

~ Darvek

OOC: And that takes care of the relevant clause in Res. 92
I second the motion to seat Krioval as chair.

agrees to krioval being the chair person and suggests a chatzy chat room for the trial
If you wish i offer the Realm of hibernias chatroom.

Sorry, Venerable Libertarians, but your post was proof that you are going on with this perversion of the resolution. Prepare for a visit from the mods.
This would be a good place to use the Ignore function, Loratana. Mods don't regulate roleplay, not even when it's based on passed resolutions.

For the record, the Modulated Frisbeeterian UN Puppet of Gnomewatchers also withdraws its interest in observing this incarnation of The Pretenama Panel. We'll try again when somebody runs this seriously.

Sorry, Venerable Libertarians, but your post was proof that you are going on with this perversion of the resolution. Prepare for a visit from the mods.

I can assure you loretana that i am impartial in these matters. I have no agreement or other wise with any other member of the panel and my ideals are deeply set in Liberty freedom and justice for all

I object to this proceeding! THIS CHICANERY HAS GONE ON LONG ENOUGH. The Democratic States of Loratana has never done anything that may be deemed genocide. This is a plot by Asshelmetta to keep our moral decency proposal "No Tobacco in Childcare" from passing. If this flimflam is to go on, I demand that you actually make quota and include the my region's delegate and founder, the Empire of Novus Arcadia.

For the record, the Modulated Frisbeeterian UN Puppet of Gnomewatchers also withdraws its interest in observing this incarnation of The Pretenama Panel. We'll try again when somebody runs this seriously.
OOC:
:eek:
You're Gnomewatchers?
I thought you were The UN Gnomes!

Aggrees to the addition of the founder of your region.

OOC:
You're Gnomewatchers?
I thought you were The UN Gnomes!
Another moderator runs the UN Gnomes. I created Gnomewatchers to follow the Gnomes around and keep them honest (read Gnomewatchers' motto). I didn't really activate them until today, but they've been around for a few months. Remember, I've only been a Mod here for a week. Somebody had to keep an eye on the UN prior to that.

:D

here is the url for the Realms Chat room. ...
http://www.chatzy.com/104612608529

Aggrees to the addition of the founder of your region.
Sorry, but I don't think we are allowed to have more than 30 members.

Also, the Humanitarian Intervention resolution clearly states that these inquests must be handled as expeditiously as possible, to stop genocide early.

Novus Arcadia isn't even in this thread. We simply can't delay proceedings any longer while this genocide goes on.

then all come to the chat room listed. so we can hear the accusations and get this expedited

Another moderator runs the UN Gnomes. I created Gnomewatchers to follow the Gnomes around and keep them honest (read Gnomewatchers' motto). I didn't really activate them until today, but they've been around for a few months. Remember, I've only been a Mod here for a week. Somebody had to keep an eye on the UN prior to that.

:D
What happened was, I read a short exchange between you and DemonLordEnigma about using a different nation for the UN or something like that, and then shortly afterwards I saw the first post by The UN Gnomes. So I ended up thinking they were you.
I'd make a really really bad private investigator!
:D

After a lengthy debate, involving the calling of several independent human rights experts and witnesses, the Pretanama Panel has no choice but to declare a verdict of guilty. The question as to type and magnitude of intervention on behalf of the embattled citizens of Loratana will be referred to a UN committee appointed specifically to deal with this onerous task.

Lord Darvek Tyvok

The punishment decided, for the abusive tyranny of Loratana shall be as follows:

1. All current government ministers shall be caged and paraded through the capitals of nations Loratana has offended. The ministers shall remain clothed, and no detritus will be thrown at them.

2. Following part 1, the government ministers will be lashed with wet trout. In order to ensure a humane punishment, all trout will be verified deceased due to natural causes prior to use.

3. All cigarettes and equipment used to manufacture cigarettes will be transferred to Venerable Libertarians.

4. All cheese and equipment used to manufacture and export cheese will be transferred to Asshelmetta.

5. All restored furniture and equipment used to manufacture and restore furniture will be transferred to Krioval.

6. The government of Loratana must sign a pledge to allow UN inspectors from Krioval, Asshelmetta, Nargopia, and Venerable Libertarians to enter at will to verify that tyranny and other human rights abuses are no longer continuing.

7. The government of Loratana must sign a free trade pact with all nations willing to engage in international trade.

8. Refusal to cooperate with any of the above provisions allows the use of any and all force deemed necessary by the nations of Krioval, Asshelmetta, Venerable Liberatarians, or Nargopia.

Faithfully submitted,
Lord Darvek Tyvok

OOC: Now all we need is to deconstruct exactly where everything went straight to hell. :cool:

1. First and foremost, all 15 nationstates should be required to be from separate regions from each other and from the accuser(s) and defendent.

2. The inquest should be convened outside the UN or International Incidents forum only with the consent of both the accuser(s) and the defendent.

3. Fair notice should be given the defendent. The defendent should be able to hear and respond to the evidence presented against him/her/it.

4. Members of TPP should be prohibited from getting reparations or spoils of war.

what we have here is a clear cut case of a resulution which is open to abuse. Yes i do like Ciggarettes but thats not an Issue

** Can i please have my beret back !! **

From Resolution 92:

Such violations may be brought to the UN’s attention by any coalition of nations (minimum of 2) with a plan for intervention.

The problem with this is that any two nations with an axe to grind can currently force the matter to a Pretanama Panel. If evidence is so tenuous that only two nations possess it, I am unconvinced that a full panel needs to be convened. For all I know, the two nations may be allied against the accused. I am unsure of how best to remedy this except that maybe increasing the number or limiting it to regional delegates (or both) would help.

They will be advised by impartial and independent human rights experts, (e.g. from human rights international non-governmental organisations,) but it will be the UN committee who votes on whether an action is appropriate.

Instead of referring to a sitting committee or the UN as a whole, the phrase "the UN committee" could refer to anybody. This could be used to the advantage of people to increase or decrease the severity of punishments even if the Pretanama Panel works as it is indended. Further, I would say that anybody sitting on TPP be recused from the penalties committee, or if the two must be the same, that some external UN agency at least verify that past precedents involving level and duration of intervention are being followed.

The panel will also assess the applicant’s plans for interventions, and make amendments where necessary, as well as placing strict limits, guidelines, and targets on their actions.

Useless. TPP could vote to use nuclear weapons against a nation. Or they could resort to childish humiliations involving superannuated deceased aquatic life. A clause preventing total annihilation of the accused might be nice here.

"the proportionate international use or threat of military force, undertaken by a multilateral force with UN authorisation, aimed only at ending tyranny or genocide or extreme cases of human rights abuses on a grand scale*, welcomed by the victims, and consistent with the doctrines of consequence, intention and proportionality"

The tyranny clause has been worked to death in the debate, but in this scenario represented by this thread, it was successfully invoked to pass judgment on another nation. It's vague and should probably be omitted. As to the welcoming by the victims, if one is unable to communicate with the victims (as they've just been herded into concentration camps and are being summarily executed), what is supposed to be done?

Well, that's it from my perspective.

From Resolution 83:

§3. Those acquitted are free to go, and may not be tried for the crime by national states. However a person acquitted of Genocide can be retried by TPP should new evidence come to light.

Double jeopardy isn't my favorite thing either.

HAHAHA. VERY FUNNY (once again, I'm not talking to you, Venerable Libertarians). Let's get someone in here to mod this. Nowhere in the resolution does it say that the TPP must not be public. I demand to know what nation accuses me of this heinous crime, although I believe that I already know. Also, for Asshelmetta, whom I believe to be the accuser, either as Asshelmetta or as another nation he/she controls, and who is at war with me, to have eighteen votes (that's control, people)... this is over before it begins. I question the validity of this panel and demand that, should you proceed, you include the Empire of Novus Arcadia, my regional delegate.

OOC Unfortunately, he is playing by the letter of the law. So you'll have to counter within the confines of the resolution itself. We cannot pick and choose what we obey and do not obey in Resolutions.

what we have here is a clear cut case of a resulution which is open to abuse. Yes i do like Ciggarettes but thats not an Issue

** Can i please have my beret back !! **

*returns your beret, fresh from the dry cleaners*

YAY MY BERET!! thank you vestiva

Other issues with this are,

1, its open to bribery.
2, it is closed for review.

During the mock up i was able to get reassurances that support would be given for an up and coning draft i have and then as the trial was held On my own Nations Chat site where i am the Moderator i could delete the text so there was no transparency.

That said could i now retrieve the contents of my office! I am sitting where once my carpet laid and id also like my stereo back complete with Patriotic Music CD. ;)

Sorry, we sold your furnishings already.

However, we will donate this hand-tied persian rug to your new furnishings. The color scheme goes well with your beret.

That said could i now retrieve the contents of my office! I am sitting where once my carpet laid and id also like my stereo back complete with Patriotic Music CD. ;)
Well, here's the CD. Not quite my cup of tea. But as for the stereo, well, I'll see what I can do. But I'm not promising anything.

::searches through voluminous pockets of coat, pulls various items out::

Hmm. Any of these yours? Books? Calculator? Cat? No? Not sure where that stereo went off to.

Some kid bought it. Said he was looking for something to make techno music on, and hadn't seen something that old in forever.

The nations who have endorsed me as their delegate will all be members of TPP. They have all agreed to let my vote stand for theirs.

I believe we are close to quorum - any other delegates may also vote in lieu of their endorsers.

Asshelmetta - 9 members
Krioval - 7 members
Venerable Libertarians - 4 members
Nargopia - 12 members

This fulfills our maximum quota of 30 representatives.
The panel is convened.

Not to jump up and down on your plans, but its two reps from 15 nations, not 30 reps altogether :}

That this is a clear attempt to illustrate how it is possible to subvert the recently passed legislation.

The legislation effectivly makes it possible for nations to be distracted from the main purpose of the UN, that is improvement of life for all.

We opposed this legislation but it was unwisely rushed through, the authors, we feel had not considered the full ramifications of the mandate. Or if they had then they were trying to distract members from more important business in the UN for their own advantage.

If elligible we are willing to send a recently qualified lawyer Wiggy McGonagall Medici and his small team of six to attend the panel in this case. We expect our lawyer to be fully recompensed for his loss of potential business and that all expenses will be paid to him weekly from either UN funds if there are any or equally from the governments of the disputants until the case is finished.

We would send someone with more experience and therefore more expensive but we have no wish to force any Nation or the UN into penury.

We look forward to an invitation by telegram from the mysterious council that organises such panels. We will furnish the organisers with full details of Mr Medici's party when they are invited invited.

Your intervention was therefore not legitimate from the resolution's standpoint. However, as pointed out, there was nothing stopping you from doing this anyway without the resolution.

But at least all the areas of concern arising from this thread can be used in the defining of the Pretenama Panel proposal.

The problem with the UN resolutions is that there is a word limit. Real life proposals could be hundreds of pages long with added clauses, and that would probably be best for the humanitarian intervention case. But I did not have 100s of pages with which to work.

The Federation of Engineering Chaos shows it's disgust at using an innocent nation to make a point.

OOC:
:eek:
You're Gnomewatchers?
I thought you were The UN Gnomes!

The UN Gnomes are the most glorious Hack, but I was wondering whom the Gnomewatchers are. The third nation in the Halls of the UN is my Intl Red Cross puppet. (BTW that puppet exists for roleplay purposes, so anybody wanting the IRCO to jump in, message them, and chances are they will.)

Will there be any report given to other nations about what the charges were on Loratana, how they were proven, and how the punishments were decided?

The UN Gnomes are the most glorious Hack, but I was wondering whom the Gnomewatchers are.
Huh. I had it the other way around, I thought Gnomewatchers was Hack for some odd reason or other.

Not to jump up and down on your plans, but its two reps from 15 nations, not 30 reps altogether :}

Actually, we used other nations in our region to convene the necessary fifteen nations for representation, having, of course, vetted them carefully to ensure their "lack of bias" (OOC: IOW, that they'd vote guilty as well as we would).

Please take the time to review the proposed Pretenama Panel guidelines. It has its own thread.

YAY MY BERET!! thank you vestiva

Other issues with this are,

1, its open to bribery.
2, it is closed for review.

During the mock up i was able to get reassurances that support would be given for an up and coning draft i have and then as the trial was held On my own Nations Chat site where i am the Moderator i could delete the text so there was no transparency.

That said could i now retrieve the contents of my office! I am sitting where once my carpet laid and id also like my stereo back complete with Patriotic Music CD. ;)
If you want the bribe to be honored, you can't talk about it on the public forum!

Sheesh. I already said I was going to help with your resolution before TPP anyway.

Your intervention was therefore not legitimate from the resolution's standpoint. However, as pointed out, there was nothing stopping you from doing this anyway without the resolution.

But at least all the areas of concern arising from this thread can be used in the defining of the Pretenama Panel proposal.

The problem with the UN resolutions is that there is a word limit. Real life proposals could be hundreds of pages long with added clauses, and that would probably be best for the humanitarian intervention case. But I did not have 100s of pages with which to work.

The intervention was absolutely legitimate. We followed the letter of the law, to the best of our ability.

Minor technical missteps that did not affect the outcome have no bearing on the legitimacy of the resulting judgement.





Have I mentioned that we managed to use the need for speed mentioned in Humanitarian Intervention as part of our strategy to pervert TPP?

That wording pretty much precludes a fair trial for anyone accused under TPP.

Will there be any report given to other nations about what the charges were on Loratana, how they were proven, and how the punishments were decided?
Did we forget to post the accusations with the verdict?
That was sloppy. In our defense, it was quite late.
We were rushing because Humanitarian Intervention puts a premium on speed in these trials.

The Findings

Loratana was found guilty of Tyranny for outlawing smoking in child care facilities in her own country.

Loratana was found guilty of Genocide for the summary mass execution of smokers. The existence of the killing fields in Loratana was proven beyond reasonable doubt by secret intelligence. We decline to identify the sources for fear they would face reprisals from remnants of the evile former government of Loratana.

The Punishment

The intervention plan was easy. The punishments were the subject of hours (ok, minutes) of debate and research.

We then determined that we weren't sure how many state capitals we had, so it would be better not to mention them specifically but just say the criminals would be paraded through them in cages.

We also determined that the government of Loratana was unlikely to be good looking, so we provided clothes for them in the cages.

There was heavy debate about the trout whippings. One member, in fact, demanded that out of consideration for Jeianga, we use dead fish only. That member also insisted on using trout that had died of natural causes. The Oppressed Peoples of Asshelmetta then proposed that we use only fish that had died from smoking, or been smoked after dying, and submitted that salmon would be more appropriate than trout. Our voice was, we fear, lost in the shouting over divvying up the spoils, which started right about then.

The Spoils

We determined that VL was the only smoker among us, so he got the cigs.

I determined that cheese exports were the main industry of Loratana, so I swindled the other panel members.

Krioval determined that his President was gay, so the furniture restoration industry would be appropriate for him.

Actually, we used other nations in our region to convene the necessary fifteen nations for representation, having, of course, vetted them carefully to ensure their "lack of bias" (OOC: IOW, that they'd vote guilty as well as we would).
By definition, any country that has endorsed me as delegate has given me the right to vote for them in UN matters if they are indisposed.

This was less of a slam-dunk than I had hoped, as one of the members of my region wanted in on the panel when we took it offsite to my board.

He was drunk, though, and couldn't remember which country he was.




I am not, repeat NOT! asking anyone from NationStates to visit my region's board.
In fact, I do not recommend it.
In fact, I'll probably ban you if I see you there.

I'm going to go right now and password protect the discussion we had last night when we convened the panel, so don't even bother.

One member, in fact, demanded that out of consideration for Jeianga, we use dead fish only.

OOC: :D

IC: Jeianga is flattered by this courtesy, and suspects Asshelmetta for this consideration. ;)

OOC: :D

IC: Jeianga is flattered by this courtesy, and suspects Asshelmetta for this consideration. ;)
No, no.
We wanted smoked salmon.
I suspect it was Venerable Libertarians who wanted animal rights respected.

It was definitely not me who suggested that the trout be deceased, but I believe I qualified that condition to require death to have occurred through natural causes.

Lord Darvek Tyvok
Ambassador from Krioval

OK folks, I get that this was a mock trial now. Somebody should have said so, though, and not during the trial itself, which I was unable to view due to sleep deprivation. Anyway, I believe that I DID use the law to fight the law, since it allows me to challenge the inclusion of nations on the panel, though not how it was to be rectified, so I specified my own rectification. I didn't expect it to be over so soon, though, or I would have told Novus about it. And it is thirty reps, not 2. the law means two from each nation.

OK, that said, I suggest we rectify the problems with the TPP. maybe, in addition to anything else you can think up, create an international review board above it, hopefully made of incorruptable nations (ie; the mods). I know they're as human as the rest of us, but they made a vow to uphold the laws, and so they shall, including that one. Who wants to write it? I sure don't, since I have rehearsal for Chicago every night for the next two weeks and a lot of homework as well. and Asshelmetta, I am a guy. So stop referring to me as a female.

OK folks, I get that this was a mock trial now. Somebody should have said so, though, and not during the trial itself, which I was unable to view due to sleep deprivation. Anyway, I believe that I DID use the law to fight the law, since it allows me to challenge the inclusion of nations on the panel, though not how it was to be rectified, so I specified my own rectification. I didn't expect it to be over so soon, though, or I would have told Novus about it. And it is thirty reps, not 2. the law means two from each nation.

OK, that said, I suggest we rectify the problems with the TPP. maybe, in addition to anything else you can think up, create an international review board above it, hopefully made of incorruptable nations (ie; the mods). I know they're as human as the rest of us, but they made a vow to uphold the laws, and so they shall, including that one. Who wants to write it? I sure don't, since I have rehearsal for Chicago every night for the next two weeks and a lot of homework as well. and Asshelmetta, I am a guy. So stop referring to me as a female.

First, the delegate from Krioval would like to apologize for not being more direct on the nature of this thread. It was more than a simple oversight in that I had hoped for real opposition from you on this to underscore the injustice and indignity that could be wrought. While that might be make for ideal testing conditions, this is not a laboratory, and other nations are not lab rats to be manipulated at will. So I really want to take steps to not go quite so far with an uninformed or unwilling audience in the future.

Second, I think that Gwenstefani's thread with the updated "strong suggestions" (a formal proposal might counter existing resolutions) on how the Pretenama Panel is convened and what is necessary for a judgment will counter such abuses in the future. Last evening's demonstration (for lack of better terminology) pushed a lot of the material in Resolutions Eighty-Three and Ninety-Two to the breaking point. Ultimately, it is impossible to moderate international relations (OOC: roleplay is a forum, rather than a game, issue - in my understanding).

Third, if I managed to unwittingly reassign your gender, I apologize, and will endeavor to not make such an egregious mistake again. I hope our future interactions will be more productive than our past ones.

Lord Darvek Tyvok
UN Ambassador - Krioval
Regional Delegate - Chaotica

Krioval, I love mock trials. Whether as defendant, witness, prosecutor, or judge, I will always be ready to help out. just give me a day's warning if you can. if not, i'll just jump in if you'll let me. Also, I didn't catch you reassigning my gender. It started with Asshelmetta, and noone else has done it to my knowledge. I forgive you if you have, Krioval.

also, on the note of moderation of roleplay, I do not want to have them moderate it except for flamebaiting like Asshelmetta did, and flaming like I did. I am simply suggesting that the mods would be ideal candidates for this international review board, since it is an appeals board, and the mods should know the material best.

Cool. One small thing, though. I feel really weird being directly addressed by my nation name. Silly, isn't it? I don't seem to mind when it refers to a proposal I made ("Krioval's proposal"), but in conversation...well...it just feels strange. Do you have an ambassador assigned to the UN from your country? Otherwise, I guess I'm forced to respond to "the delegate from Loratana".

~ Darvek

(OOC: :D )

my apologies. I do not currently have an ambassador to the UN, but one should be arriving before too long. His name is Sol Vulcan.

Hi again,
I believe when formatting a punishment asshelmetta asked for public exicutions. I poo pooed this in favour of Public Flogging. Krioval then suggested we use trout and i agreed stipulating that the trout were already deceased to keep the Animal lovers off our case.

OK, that said, I suggest we rectify the problems with the TPP. maybe, in addition to anything else you can think up, create an international review board above it, hopefully made of incorruptable nations (ie; the mods). I know they're as human as the rest of us, but they made a vow to uphold the laws, and so they shall, including that one. Who wants to write it?

It's already being done- just check out the Pretenama Panel Review thread in this forum. The workings of TPP document is being constantly updated as more people make suggestions and criticisms and hopefully at the end of the process we'll have a cast-iron set of guidelines on how TPP should work. Read over it and let me know what you think. And don't forget to telegram me if you would like to be added to the list of potential TPP members.

Krioval then suggested we use trout and i agreed stipulating that the trout were already deceased to keep the Animal lovers off our case.

The animal lovers are pleased. :)

pernicious deed

The UN must avoid this incredibly dangerous nation.

Before this idea turns into another flamewar, please read this post (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=8209899&postcount=13).
Frisbeeteria, I believe an apology is in order.
By my former nation, I mean.

I think I somehow missed this post in the thread, or I would have stopped and taken the time to tell you this was a long-planned exercise in perverting the resolution as soon as it passed.