NationStates Jolt Archive

I am asking for all UN Regional Delegates and Members to read this and approve this resolution:

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Repeal "The 40 Hour Workweek"
A proposal to repeal a previously passed resolution


Category: Repeal
Resolution: #59
Proposed by: Helsar

Description: UN Resolution #59: The 40 Hour Workweek (Category: Social Justice; Strength: Significant) shall be struck out and rendered null and void.

Argument: This is not the first attempt to repeal this act.

CONSIDERING this resolution can cause many economic hardships for many nations and businesses and can lead to and encourage outsourcing to non-UN Member nations

GIVEN that this is not arguing against article 3 stating "No one may be contractually obligated to remain on the worksite without pay."

ACKNOLEDGES that this is protecting workers rights but it is not doing so in an effective way.

DETERMINES that the UN is out-stepping its role in controlling economies of its members and taking away economic freedoms and effectiveness of business. This resolution is discriminatory against nations that are strongly capitalist and rely on big business to retain economic and political stability.

CALLING for support of UN Regional Delegates and Members to pass this proposal and the repeal this resolution.

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Thank you for your time.

I am asking for all UN Regional Delegates and Members to read this and approve this resolution:

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Repeal "The 40 Hour Workweek"
A proposal to repeal a previously passed resolution


Category: Repeal
Resolution: #59
Proposed by: Helsar

Description: UN Resolution #59: The 40 Hour Workweek (Category: Social Justice; Strength: Significant) shall be struck out and rendered null and void.

Argument: This is not the first attempt to repeal this act.


True. The last one failed after a huge floor fight. So why do you think this would be any different?


CONSIDERING this resolution can cause many economic hardships for many nations and businesses and can lead to and encourage outsourcing to non-UN Member nations


So because businesses are circumventing this by outsourcing, we should repeal it so they can exploit their own workers instead of those of another nation?


GIVEN that this is not arguing against article 3 stating "No one may be contractually obligated to remain on the worksite without pay."


Doesn't matter - you repeal one part, you repeal it all. Including Article 3.


ACKNOLEDGES that this is protecting workers rights but it is not doing so in an effective way.


I think it does it in a good way. Workers can only be forced to work a certain amount of hours, and can volunteer to do more hours if they want, and will get paid appropriately.

It stops employers forcing people to work 24/7 with no suitable recompense, which would be a defacto circumvension (if such a word exists) of the End Slavery resolution.


DETERMINES that the UN is out-stepping its role in controlling economies of its members and taking away economic freedoms and effectiveness of business. This resolution is discriminatory against nations that are strongly capitalist and rely on big business to retain economic and political stability.


Business work better with happy workers. They work less well with unhappy, exploited, tired workers. And the defence of workers - the protection of people against the government - is exactly what The UN should be involved in.


CALLING for support of UN Regional Delegates and Members to pass this proposal and the repeal this resolution.

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With no offense intended, I intend to do exactly the opposite.


Thank you for your time.

You are most welcome :}

no offence taken. I know the last one failed, i thought it was worth a try to attempt it since i think it should be done. I know people will agree with me and i know just as many (if not more) will disagree. Had to give it a shot.

True. The last one failed after a huge floor fight. So why do you think this would be any different?
True. I propose that all issues that have previously been discussed be tabled. We will not be allowed to discuss anything we have talked about in the past, even if that discussion was heated, with both sides evenly matched, and even if many new nations have started posting on the board since then.

I reluctantly agree with this repeal for one reason. The UN doesnt have a right to interfere with the policies of a nations economy. it does have the right to protect those who are forced into slave labour and also to protect against companies who blatantly flaunt Human Rights code.

President Murphy,
The Realm of Hibernia.

alright, i am not looking for a floor fight nor a heated debate, i just want to try to give this repeal one more chance before the UN.

alright, i am not looking for a floor fight nor a heated debate, i just want to try to give this repeal one more chance before the UN.
There's no way you're going to get this all the way to the floor without a floor fight or a heated debate.

Especially here.

There's no way you're going to get this all the way to the floor without a floor fight or a heated debate.

I think a repeal of this resolution would need a really, really, well-reasoned argument (not to infer that the previous argument wasn't) and a little bit of time so people forget that it failed in the recent past. Free soviets, who's very much for the resolution (the author) has a very good campaign FOR the resolution. It's agreed that to take it "all the way" you'd need an equally well-articulated and widespread campaign.

But don't give up Helsar, I hope you keep writing and submitting proposals.

Good Luck!

True. I propose that all issues that have previously been discussed be tabled. We will not be allowed to discuss anything we have talked about in the past, even if that discussion was heated, with both sides evenly matched, and even if many new nations have started posting on the board since then.

(smirk) Wow. If I had known I had that much power - to stop everything I objected to - I would have used it *way* before now :}

I reluctantly agree with this repeal for one reason. The UN doesnt have a right to interfere with the policies of a nations economy. it does have the right to protect those who are forced into slave labour and also to protect against companies who blatantly flaunt Human Rights code.

President Murphy,
The Realm of Hibernia.

And you don't think giving employers a free hand to work people as much as they want for as little as they want (as far as I am aware there is no UN mandated minimum wage) is tantamount to slavery?

A 40 hour work week! Why should my people work less hours in a week. Like they have anything else to do! Wallachslanders believe in hard work. In fact we are working on a new drug so they don't have to eat or sleep at all. Sure they only live to be 20 years old but hey, they lead productive lives!

...and the fine tradition of UN comedy lives on.

A 40 hour work week! Why should my people work less hours in a week. Like they have anything else to do! Wallachslanders believe in hard work. In fact we are working on a new drug so they don't have to eat or sleep at all. Sure they only live to be 20 years old but hey, they lead productive lives!

I would like to thank Wallachsland for that wonderful comment... im sure that will really help my cause. Anywho, this is my first shot at this kind of thing, now i know i need to play the forums and launch debates on the issues. Perhaps i should have waited to push this repeal until i gained some expirence in how the game is played but despite the fact this is my first proposal and i have not done a great job of rallying support does not mean that this proposal is meaningless to me or the international community. This is an important issue that strongly impacts nations and also cripples heavy capitalisms. I hope you will not view my inexpirienceness as a weakness to the cause i am fighting for.

And thank you, Powerhungry Chipmunks, i intend to.

(smirk) Wow. If I had known I had that much power - to stop everything I objected to - I would have used it *way* before now :}
Please don't tell me you couldn't tell I was being sarcastic.

Please don't tell me you couldn't tell I was being sarcastic.

And could you? (smirk)

I stand with TilEnca on this one. Worker protection is something the UN should be fighting for.

I would like to thank Wallachsland for that wonderful comment... im sure that will really help my cause. Anywho, this is my first shot at this kind of thing, now i know i need to play the forums and launch debates on the issues. Perhaps i should have waited to push this repeal until i gained some expirence in how the game is played but despite the fact this is my first proposal and i have not done a great job of rallying support does not mean that this proposal is meaningless to me or the international community. This is an important issue that strongly impacts nations and also cripples heavy capitalisms. I hope you will not view my inexpirienceness as a weakness to the cause i am fighting for.

And thank you, Powerhungry Chipmunks, i intend to.

(smile) This is just my opinion, but I don't think the lack of support comes from the fact it is your first repeal/proposal. I think you picked a resolution that has a fairly solid base of support (it has been approved, voted on and survived a vote on a repeal attempt).

And - again this is just my view - if this had bee proposed by one of the longest serving UN members, I would still have opposed it and done as much as I could to ensure it never saw the light of day, because it is something I think should stay as it is. It had nothing to do with it being your first.

Despite the fact I disagree with everything you wrote, it was well written, coherent, lucid and well argued. Much better than most "first attempts".

8 for work and
8 for sleep and
8 for what we will!

If we've already passed a resolution allowing unions, this is the first thing they should have been fighting for.

Really very little need for it to be legislated.

I reluctantly agree with this repeal for one reason. The UN doesnt have a right to interfere with the policies of a nations economy. it does have the right to protect those who are forced into slave labour and also to protect against companies who blatantly flaunt Human Rights code.

My point here is that the problem should be covered by Human rights and not by intervention by the UN in the Economic affairs of a nation. The clue was in the second bart of what i said and of what you quoted me to have said.

8 for work and
8 for sleep and
8 for what we will!

If we've already passed a resolution allowing unions, this is the first thing they should have been fighting for.

Really very little need for it to be legislated.

I disagree. Governments have a lot more power than the unions and thus could impose a 100-hour workweek if they wanted to, forcing the fact that they subordinate to the government. Employers can only answer to unions, the government does not have to.

8 for work and
8 for sleep and
8 for what we will!

If we've already passed a resolution allowing unions, this is the first thing they should have been fighting for.

Really very little need for it to be legislated.

*the Vastivan representative sidles next to the Asshelmetta representative, flips a Vastivan Polar Crown to tails and puts it on the desk*

pssst... cmere.... see that sun? It doesn't set for five months. Then, after deciding, it doesn't rise for another five months.

"Time" here is a rather meaningless concept because of this. During dark season, sleeping long is common (SAD being a normal occurance). During light season, sleeping light is common (who wants to miss the short term beaches?).

And for what it is worth: The first thing our unions fought for once allowed was clothing allowances.

The Caliph then flips the coin into the air, catches it, and winks.

OOC: Vastiva, can I ask you, where do you put your capital?

OOC: Vastiva, can I ask you, where do you put your capital?

In a bank like everyone else?

Oh.... not *that* type of capital?

In a bank like everyone else?

Oh.... not *that* type of capital?

The geographical location of his capital city.

The geographical location of his capital city.

(smirk) Clearly my sense of humour needs a slight modification :}

CONSIDERING this resolution can cause many economic hardships for many nations and businesses and can lead to and encourage outsourcing to non-UN Member nations

Prove it.

GIVEN that this is not arguing against article 3 stating "No one may be contractually obligated to remain on the worksite without pay."

ACKNOLEDGES that this is protecting workers rights but it is not doing so in an effective way.

Why not? If you want to work longer, you can, if you don't want to, you can't be forced. It is a very effective way of protecting workers, though obviously not the only method.

DETERMINES that the UN is out-stepping its role in controlling economies of its members and taking away economic freedoms and effectiveness of business. This resolution is discriminatory against nations that are strongly capitalist and rely on big business to retain economic and political stability.

The UN isn't outstepping its role. It is protecting the individual citizens, like most resolutions do in a way. It is also not discriminating, it merely protects workers. Happy workers are more productive, which is better for political stability and economic strenght.

CALLING for support of UN Regional Delegates and Members to pass this proposal and the repeal this resolution.

It didn't pass last time, and it probably won't this time.

The government of Telidia congratulates the honourable member from Helsar in tabling a well-written argument for repeal. Unfortunately however, we are unable to lend our support since the government of Telidia firmly believes protecting the rights of workers against exploitation is a right every working individual must have re-course to.

Respectfully
Lydia Cornwall, UN Ambassador
Office of UN Relations, Dept for Foreign Affairs
HM Government of Telidia

Telidia, despite that your nation disagrees with me on how to protect workers, your kind words are noted and genuinely appreciated.

To accurately defend myself, I am not against workers rights. I am for workers rights and the formation of labor unions. I am against, however, standardizing the international community. Some nations rely on big business and it might be required for workers to work over 40 hours a week and get paid for every hour. We are talking about legal adults, not children or slaves. It should be up to the individual workers, unions, businesses, and nations to decide the hours acceptable.

OOC: Vastiva, can I ask you, where do you put your capital?

OOC:
The Capital of Vastiva is Sisu Vaari. It is in Antarctica, just like the rest of Vastiva, save our colonies.

On Caliph Suleman ben Ghaziri al-Din (more info found here (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=7587656&postcount=41)) Reason for Wealth: Major investments in legal brothels, several medical supply companies with international connections, recycling centers, and a company that buys international copyrights in order to create lawsuits in order to get huge settlements later.

Might I ask why you wish to know?

OOC:
The Capital of Vastiva is Sisu Vaari. It is in Antarctica, just like the rest of Vastiva, save our colonies.

On Caliph Suleman ben Ghaziri al-Din (more info found here (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=7587656&postcount=41)) Reason for Wealth: Major investments in legal brothels, several medical supply companies with international connections, recycling centers, and a company that buys international copyrights in order to create lawsuits in order to get huge settlements later.

Might I ask why you wish to know?

I meant where in Antarctica? I'm curious since the only place I can imagine a viable capital could be in Antarctica is in the Antarctic Peninsula, the northernmost, warmest and most inhabitable section.

I disagree. Governments have a lot more power than the unions and thus could impose a 100-hour workweek if they wanted to, forcing the fact that they subordinate to the government. Employers can only answer to unions, the government does not have to.
I was hoping to troll someone into googling it.

It is, in fact, the slogan the labor unions rode to general acceptance a hundred years ago.

I was hoping to troll someone into googling it.

It is, in fact, the slogan the labor unions rode to general acceptance a hundred years ago.

Yeah, but how true was that? Without checks and balances the government does not have to listen to a union if it does not want to.

I meant where in Antarctica? I'm curious since the only place I can imagine a viable capital could be in Antarctica is in the Antarctic Peninsula, the northernmost, warmest and most inhabitable section.

Vastiva has highly significant geothermal power sources, and due to some designs by our ancestors, we have summers in the eighties - and the beaches defrost enough for swimming.

If you were planning on invading, do stop.

Yeah, but how true was that? Without checks and balances the government does not have to listen to a union if it does not want to.

Well, we listen. We don't have to, but we do. Better profit in the long run.

Some nations rely on big business and it might be required for workers to work over 40 hours a week and get paid for every hour. We are talking about legal adults, not children or slaves. It should be up to the individual workers, unions, businesses, and nations to decide the hours acceptable.

The resolution allows that; it simply makes sure that no-one can be forced to work longer than 40 hours. However, if a company has a good proposal and its workers accept that, nothing stops them from working 80 hours.

I cannot support this proposal, for reasons previously delineated by others.

~UN Representative for Neo-Anarchists~

Vastiva has highly significant geothermal power sources, and due to some designs by our ancestors, we have summers in the eighties - and the beaches defrost enough for swimming.

If you were planning on invading, do stop.

:eek: How dare you think that we would invade a nation who agrees more often than not with our nation? We would like to be able to advertise your beaches in our area, and hopefully attract you some tourists.

OOC: Vastiva, don't forget, I did ask you where your capital was OOC.

I would like to extend a thanks to RomeW and Vastiva in not letting my thread get too serious. Your banter is off-topic but nonetheless amusing to read.

yes! repeal 40 hour week. opposers have my support, whether it matters or not. Yay, my # of posts reached 50! I'm such a geek. :D *fluffles for all* :fluffle: :fluffle: :fluffle:

I would like to extend a thanks to RomeW and Vastiva in not letting my thread get too serious. Your banter is off-topic but nonetheless amusing to read.

Umm...thanks?

I disagree. Governments have a lot more power than the unions and thus could impose a 100-hour workweek if they wanted to, forcing the fact that they subordinate to the government. Employers can only answer to unions, the government does not have to.
But don't strikes affect the government as well? If a well-coordinated strike in any commercial field were to occur, it could affect the economy enough to where the government would have to listen.

Ahhh yes, I have at last been inspired to post something.

If something failed a month or so ago, that's fine for you people with 800-plus posts who have been here for a long time.

But in the meantime, new people have signed up. New people have joined the UN. Old people who were here before have since left. You say it was a "heated debate". I wasn't here then but if it was indeed a heated debate, then that would imply that the final vote tally on the matter was close.

Who's to say with the changes in the UN since then that something wouldn't pass now.

It's this kind of arrogance by large experienced nations that will keep fresh ideas, or re-visited ideas by a small, upstart nation down. Because if us small upstart nations don't attempt to participate as well, then this community can get old real fast.

You can argue the fine points of his proposal. But to dismiss it because it failed in the past, is ignorant. Old ideas resurface in the real UN all the time. This is no different.

Cheers Helsar, you will have my vote, a vote that wouldn't have been around before, if you can get this to a vote.

But don't strikes affect the government as well? If a well-coordinated strike in any commercial field were to occur, it could affect the economy enough to where the government would have to listen.

That would depend on whether or not the government respects its citizens. A respectful government would listen to the unions in the hopes that they can restore the part of the economy the union is affecting. Disrespectful governments could very easily just fire the unions and hire replacements, since to them anyway anyone can be expendable.

:eek: How dare you think that we would invade a nation who agrees more often than not with our nation? We would like to be able to advertise your beaches in our area, and hopefully attract you some tourists.

OOC: Vastiva, don't forget, I did ask you where your capital was OOC.
ICly:

Well, our beaches only last as beaches for four months... however, our Hedonism cruises are year round, and we'll be adding two Queen Mary III liners to Vastivan Cruise Lines navy, dedicated to serve only Hedonism cruises.

To go back on topic :D our cruise workers are temporarilly reactivated upon boarding (it is part of the navy, after all), allowing them to be on duty longer then the limitation. Of course, they are well-compensated for their time.

We see no real reason to void the 40 hour work week, as the other option is "let all nations decide for themselves", and there are those less... forward thinking then RomeW and Vastiva, who would abuse the privledge.

Just as an example, A major power supplier has something break down over the weekend and all of their emploies who are qualified to fix the problem have already worked 40 hours that week. Their company can't make them come into work if they don't want to, so half the nation goes without power untill Monday. While this isn't that probable under good management, it is definately possible and if the company's scheduals are missmanaged, could become a realatively common occurance.

Just as an example, A major power supplier has something break down over the weekend and all of their emploies who are qualified to fix the problem have already worked 40 hours that week. Their company can't make them come into work if they don't want to, so half the nation goes without power untill Monday. While this isn't that probable under good management, it is definately possible and if the company's scheduals are missmanaged, could become a realatively common occurance.
correct me if I wrong, but employ enough people for un-pausing guarding and keeping well is common sense (especially in high priority industries).
this resolution is good one, and he shouldn't repeal.

Ahhh yes, I have at last been inspired to post something.

If something failed a month or so ago, that's fine for you people with 800-plus posts who have been here for a long time.

But in the meantime, new people have signed up. New people have joined the UN. Old people who were here before have since left. You say it was a "heated debate". I wasn't here then but if it was indeed a heated debate, then that would imply that the final vote tally on the matter was close.

Who's to say with the changes in the UN since then that something wouldn't pass now.

It's this kind of arrogance by large experienced nations that will keep fresh ideas, or re-visited ideas by a small, upstart nation down. Because if us small upstart nations don't attempt to participate as well, then this community can get old real fast.

You can argue the fine points of his proposal. But to dismiss it because it failed in the past, is ignorant. Old ideas resurface in the real UN all the time. This is no different.

Cheers Helsar, you will have my vote, a vote that wouldn't have been around before, if you can get this to a vote.
just one problem: every part and sentence in his proposal already debated in this thread.

Just as an example, A major power supplier has something break down over the weekend and all of their emploies who are qualified to fix the problem have already worked 40 hours that week. Their company can't make them come into work if they don't want to, so half the nation goes without power untill Monday. While this isn't that probable under good management, it is definately possible and if the company's scheduals are missmanaged, could become a realatively common occurance.

You're assuming that the employees won't want to. Don't forget that the employees in question would be affected too. In that situation, if my power was out and I could do something about it and get paid 1.5 times my normal salary, I'd be at my place of work pretty damn sharpish, and I'd bet pretty much all those employees would do it.

We also don't repeal vital worker's rights resolutions on remote possibilities, buddy.