NationStates Jolt Archive

Voting Scandal Rocks UN
TNP UN Delegate ignores three votes on UN resolution - Underground outraged

The North Pacific, February 13, 2005 – A number of votes submitted to UN Delegate Pixiedance (a.k.a. Moldavi, or The Minister) in regards to the recently passed resolution “Humanitarian Intervention” were blatantly ignored last night as the Delegate cast his vote in accordance with “the wishes of the region.”

http://en.wikipedia.org/upload/thumb/d/d1/250px-Voters_at_the_voting_booths_in_1945.jpeg
UN Ambassadors from The North Pacific enter Regional Headquarters to submit their votes.

The North Pacific, as it now stands, is a battlezone. Moldavi/Pixiedance overthrew the standing government shortly after receiving the nation Pixiedance from it’s original owner, Cathyy. Since that point, a rebellion movement dubbed “The Underground” has been engaging in the use of propaganda and unendorsement campaigns in an attempt to get the non-democratically elected Delegate out of office. Events have been steadily increasing in urgency, peaking at the un-warned bannings of Better Times and Ceasersland from the region. Those nations face private, guilty-until-proven-innocent trials later this week.

These actions have led to two main forums of The North Pacific, the official (s4) forum, found here (http://s4.invisionfree.com/TheNorthPacific), and the Underground (s2) forum, found here (http://s2.invisionfree.com/The_North_Pacific). When a UN resolution comes up for vote, debate topics spring up on both forums, with Un member nations from all over NationStates stating their votes and reasons. On the fourth day of voting for “Humanitarian Intervention”, now UN Resolution #92, the list of votes from North Pacifican UN nations on the Underground forums was tallied by UN Forum Moderator Hersfold, confirmed, and posted in the debate topic on the Directorate forums. This count, after removing duplicate votes, was found to be 3 in favor, and none against. Shortly after, a message was posted by The Minister (Moldavi), giving a final count of votes, listed by those who had voted on the Directorate forum, and those who had voted by Personal Message or Telegram. The number of votes from the forum was listed as 2 in favor, 7 against. The votes from the Underground forum had not been considered in this total. When asked by Hersfold why the votes were not in the final total, Moldavi provided the following response: (actual post here (http://s4.invisionfree.com/TheNorthPacific/index.php?showtopic=530&view=findpost&p=9328069))

Only votes from law abiding citizens will be considered.

If the nations on the opposition forum wish to have their votes considered they can follow the procedures that are in place. By telegramming the UN Delegate or posting their vote on this forum.

Thank you for your concern.

Hersfold, unable to post a reply in the then locked topic, posted a strong rebuttal on The North Pacific’s Regional Message Board in NationStates. (Post and ensuing debate can be found here (http://s2.invisionfree.com/The_North_Pacific/index.php?showtopic=3933&view=findpost&p=1454855))

Once again, our Delegate is ignoring the voices of the region in regards to the UN!

On our last resolution, "The Sex Industry Worker Act", our Delegate, Moldavi, failed to cast his vote. He claimed that he missed the resolution, thinking that voting would end at midnight. The voting on resolutions has never ended at midnight GMT, nor does it always occur at the same time for each resolution. Moldavi, having been in this game, and the UN, for several months, and having voted on several resolutions, should have known this. Even if he didn't, there's an entire forum he could have looked through to find out. Just look for your self, the link's right there on the left of your screen.

And now, he is blantantly ignoring votes given to him from a legitimate source. Many of you know that there are two forums for TNP - the s4 forum, where Moldavi's tyrrany reigns supreme, and the s2 forum, where all may speak freely. As Delegate, it is Moldavi's obligation to listen to all votes given to him on UN resolutions and vote accordingly himself. Yet he has refused to acknoledge three votes given to him from the s2 forum I mentioned. I personally checked these votes to ensure that each nation who voted was indeed in the UN, and a member of The North Pacific. After counting and checking these votes, I posted them on his, the s4, forum.

Shortly after, he posted a final count... one which clearly did not include the votes I gave. I asked why, and this was his answer:

"Only votes from law abiding citizens will be considered."

I ask you, where have I been convicted of any crime? I have seen no accusation, no trial, no sentence! This is injustice to the utmost degree! If you want your rights to be respected and preserved in this region, if you want your voice to be heard loud and clear, if you want to be able to say what you want when you want to say it, the please, unendorse Pixiedance! This injustice, added to the bannings of Better Times and Ceaser Land, added to the destruction of our Constitution and Government, is simply criminal! speak out, and save the region!

Live Long and Prosper, all of you, and apologies for the long post.

The United Federation of Hersfold

Hersfold mentioned a failure to vote by Moldavi on “The Sex Industry Worker Act”. Moldavi did not vote on that resolution, claiming that he “missed the vote” because he “thought it ended at midnight”. Doubts have been raised over these claims, as the vote never ends at a set time for each resolution, and The North Pacific’s Minister of Liberty, Judessia, is actually none other than former Pixiedance owner Cathyy, who has had plenty of experience dealing in the UN.

As the largest region in NationStates, The North Pacific can easily have a dramatic effect on the outcome of a UN resolution. The most recent example of this power was with the failure of “Repeal “The 40 Hour Workweek””, which was passing, until the Feeder Delegates cast their substantial votes, mostly against the resolution. With great power comes great responsibility, however, as all Feeder Delegates have been obligated by their endorsers to vote along with the majority of those within the region. A single mistake in these votes can greatly affect the passing or failure of a UN resolution. While there would have been no change in Moldavi’s vote this time, a more controversial vote may be just around the corner.

This report brought to you by the Hersfold Times, your source of true news straight from the source. May you all Live Long and Prosper for now and forever.

I am a firm believer that the elected delegate of the realm should be given the freedom to vote his or her concience in the Matters of the UN reflecting the percieved majorities views of the nations that endorsed him/her in the first place.
If a Delegate turns rogue, the members of the region can have him removed by removing the endorsments and endorsing a successor.
The Delegate should be given a mandate to reflect the regions beliefs and ideals and left then to his/ her task.
Far too much time is lost while regions talk each other to death on the merits of one bill or another.
Venerable Libertarians feels the scandal is the members decision to make this an international affair by reporting it here in the first place rather than working out the regions problems within the regions own forums or bulliten boards.

I dunno about that.

I find the North Pacific's problems one of the more interesting political developments in my time here.

Haven't had time to follow it lately, so I'm glad for the update.

I dunno about that.

I find the North Pacific's problems one of the more interesting political developments in my time here.

Haven't had time to follow it lately, so I'm glad for the update.

OOC: The North Pacific has had a history of political instability, and I agree it is always worth keeping an on the North Pacific. Or at least a puppet. ;)

I am a firm believer that the elected delegate of the realm should be given the freedom to vote his or her concience in the Matters of the UN reflecting the percieved majorities views of the nations that endorsed him/her in the first place.
If a Delegate turns rogue, the members of the region can have him removed by removing the endorsments and endorsing a successor.
The Delegate should be given a mandate to reflect the regions beliefs and ideals and left then to his/ her task.
Far too much time is lost while regions talk each other to death on the merits of one bill or another.
Venerable Libertarians feels the scandal is the members decision to make this an international affair by reporting it here in the first place rather than working out the regions problems within the regions own forums or bulliten boards.
Delegates of the Feeder Regions have always voted democratically. There is no other fair way to vote with that much power behind a single click. I respect that Delegates can, as well as any other UN member, vote as they want to. But with that much power, and even after clearly stating that he would vote with all votes in mind, he has blantantly ignored three. His Minister of Justice later posted that "No nation shall have their voice denied." How's that for hypocrisy?

We're working on removing his endorsements. However, Pixiedance/Moldavi still holds over 600 endorsements... 100 less that he used to, but it's still a significant amount.

Debate is the main reason the UN exists. If debate did not exist, many nations would not vote, or would vote in a manner they may not have otherwise. The written word, not the casting of the vote, is what drives the UN.

This scandal is an international affair whether I post it here or not. As I said in the article, The Feeder Rgions have the ability to change the direction of a resolution with a single vote. Even with the Underground's efforts, Moldavi still is the strongest voice in the UN. If he turns rouge, the whole UN may well turn rouge with him.

This scandal is an international affair whether I post it here or not. As I said in the article, The Feeder Rgions have the ability to change the direction of a resolution with a single vote. Even with the Underground's efforts, Moldavi still is the strongest voice in the UN. If he turns rouge, the whole UN may well turn rouge with him.

I can attest to this. The Pacific delegates are the reason the repeal of legalize prostitution passed. I am quite interested in how this story develops.

I can attest to this. The Pacific delegates are the reason the repeal of legalize prostitution passed.
much to my dismay

The Pacifics and RR together are also the reason the repeal of the 40 hour work-week failed. They hold an incredible amount of power.

Oh, and Hersfold:
If he turns rouge, the whole UN may well turn rouge with him.
Come now, you've beed active long enough to be able to predict when you're going to cause a whole lot of talk about mascara nations. Rogue, not rouge!

Fellow UN Members,

Having enjoyed a strong working relationship with several feeder Delegates over the past year, I'd like to point out that while most feeder region UN Delegates do work extremely hard to represent the best interests of their regions, that there are in fact times when the feeder Delegates will in fact not rule with the best interests of neither their region nor the UN at heart. This is of course true in all regions, but as my esteemed colleque from Hersfold has pointed out, the feeder region UN Delegates have many times proven to be the deciding factor in UN resolution outcomes.

The problem isn't that the UN should get into the habit of laying down rules and policies related to regional management, when this can be avoided, however, when any region or alliance of regions begins to take advantage of the inactivity of some UN members, it is upon the rest of us to come together and to insure that some form of stability is maintained in the UN.

In particular there is a process many of you are no doubt familair with that is commonly referred to as endorsement swapping. The problem with this method of collecting endorsements is that many governments, mine included, have reason to believe that the level of activity of nations in the feeder regions is often less than that of non-feeder based regions.

The problem here is that in a feeder region, pro-UN nations might be able to telegram other nations in their region asking them to unendorse a UN Delegate who have started to show a voting pattern that is not democratically based, but that this is in fact a very exhausting process that often has only modest results.

While I'm certainly not advocating an over throw of the feeder regions, I'd like to actually suggest that pro-UN nations that are not in feeder regions should support the actions of the feeder UN Delegates that have adopted democratic and transparent rule in order to encourage this in the other regions. Furthermore, if it becomes clear that one or two feeder UN Delegates is consistently voting not based on their region's wishes, non-feeder regions could in fact begin to "recruit" feeder nations that are displeased to move to non-feeder regions, for every pro-Democracy UN Delegate that is endorsed represents not one, but rather two votes difference when it comes to UN resolutions ... the vote gained by the Democratic Delegate and the vote lost by the non-Democratic Delegate.

In normal circumstances my government would not even feel the need to speak to this matter, but having watched the current situtation in the North Pacific develop over the past several weeks, my government is very concerned by this situtation and feels that even if active UN members might agree with the most recent voting records from the North Pacific delegate that perhaps it is in the best interest of this body that the North Pacific delegate begin to at the very least directly participate in the discussions this forum so that this entire assembly may better understand the reasoning behind the hundreds of votes the North Pacific carries.

The issue with Pixiedance and the casting of its vote on UN resolutions is even more complex than what has been mentioned above. I believe it was resolution 89 where a number of nations in The North Pacific who has discussed and debated that resolution, and posted their votes (in favor), only to find that Pixiedance has voted "against" the resolution. The claim was made that the difference between the lopsided votes posted in the two regional-based forums and the unpublished tally was due to private messages and telegrams. However, it was, and remains impossible to verify these statements because The Minister had repeatedly refused to disclose the identify of nations that voted by telegram or private message; thus making it impossible to verify whether the will of the region's UN member nations had been exercised or not.

In fact, the only recent resolution where there has not been a dispute within the North Pacific was UN Resolution 90, the Tsunami Warning System resolution. There seems to be little disagreement among all sides that that proposal of which Grosseschnauzer was sponsor of record, has widespread support within the region.

With other resolutions coming to the floor of the UN, this is an issue that ought to be monitored to see if the questions of whether the procedure being used by Pixiedance is sufficiently transparent and accountable to assure verracity in the region's collective position are addressed. It would seem to this nation that refusing to acknowlege posted positions of UN member states in a region on UN resolutions undermines that expected level of transparency and accountability in the process, and should be of concern to all UN member nations.

The Pacifics and RR together are also the reason the repeal of the 40 hour work-week failed. They hold an incredible amount of power.

Oh, and Hersfold:

Come now, you've beed active long enough to be able to predict when you're going to cause a whole lot of talk about mascara nations. Rogue, not rouge!

Oh yes... I remember that proposal... sorry. :)

It will be interesting to see what happens in the Pacifics on the current resolution, Repeal "The Global Library"... we didn't pass it all that long ago, and the original resolution does hold one of the 10 closest margins in UN history. As much as I would hate for it to happen, a single mistake in the feeders could prevent the repeal from passing.

The Pacifics and RR together are also the reason the repeal of the 40 hour work-week failed. They hold an incredible amount of power.

Oh, and Hersfold:

Come now, you've beed active long enough to be able to predict when you're going to cause a whole lot of talk about mascara nations. Rogue, not rouge!
oh, i thought that was an intentional nationstatesism.

I am now going to go change my nation's descriptor from "The Severely Befuddled Citizens of Neo-Anarchists" to "The Rouge Nation of Neo-Anarchists".
:D

If I could perhaps interject here.

The Delegate of The North Pacific still votes according to the majority opinion. That has not changed.

Nations are asked to either TG the Delegate nation in NationStates with their vote or post in the designated thread on the official regional forum (listed clearly in the World Factbook Entry). The problems described above are simply from a group of nations that refuse to follow the laws of our region and do things the prescribed and specified way. I am sorry that they feel the need to bother everyone with something so petty as them refusing to vote correctly, but that is the jist of it.

Don't believe the hype.

Thank you and have a nice day.

Ah, the problems inherent with electronic voting.

I am now going to go change my nation's descriptor from "The Severely Befuddled Citizens of Neo-Anarchists" to "The Rouge Nation of Neo-Anarchists".
:D
That's nothing I'm tempted to go from The Rogue Nation of Flibbleites, to The Rouge Nation of Flibbleites. I'll admit it's not as much of a change but still.

----------------------
Brandon Flibble
Grand Poobah of The Rogue (or is it Rouge) Nation of Flibbleites

Rouge = red = communist, in my own twisted little mind. I actually like a lot of communist nations, which is why I always worry about the "Citizen Rule Required" resolution, number 8. Rouge is, in fact, a rather common occurence in Nationstates, probably because of this minor typo.

I know it a common typo, but it makes for so many good jokes.:D

If I could perhaps interject here.

The Delegate of The North Pacific still votes according to the majority opinion. That has not changed.

Nations are asked to either TG the Delegate nation in NationStates with their vote or post in the designated thread on the official regional forum (listed clearly in the World Factbook Entry). The problems described above are simply from a group of nations that refuse to follow the laws of our region and do things the prescribed and specified way. I am sorry that they feel the need to bother everyone with something so petty as them refusing to vote correctly, but that is the jist of it.

Don't believe the hype.

Thank you and have a nice day.

On the behalf of the United Nations Association, I'd like to formally then request that the North Pacific delegate begin to disclose the tally of telegrams and sources of votes. This request has been made before on the longstanding North Pacific regional forum and was ignored.

The problem as my government understands it is that the government of Pixiedance was transfered over to control of another government, which then changed the NS regional board entry to point to a new regional forum. Unlike the previous forum which has been going strong for well over a year, this new forum has practiced many instances of censorship of long standing and UN active North Pacific nations. The "new" government of Pixiedance also disbanned the official North Pacific government and declared the existing laws of that region void -- which is something that my government and many others consider highly illegal.

This form of censorship is a highly objectionable partice and a non-democratic one. Though you are well aware of the current international (moderation) rule permitting one player only one posting per day of any URL, based on questions I've posed it actually is completely legal for telegram campaigns to question the voting record (including non-disclosure of voting trends) as part of a grounds for a non-endorsement campaign.

The Confederated City States of Mikitivity was a long standing member allied with the North Pacific since its entry into the United Nations a year ago. After the situtation with Great Bight, Mikitivity co-founded the International Democratic Union in part to ensure that transparent and democratic rule of regions could be better protected. However, when the City States entered into the IDU, it did not abandon the North Pacific nor leave friendly governments behind, and at least one of those governments has expressed to my government its direct concern for a lack of response concerning UN voting decisions.

Despite the current winter storm that has blacked out most of the communications in the Confederated City States of Mikitivity (OOC: My home computer's power supply blew out last night), the CCSM Office of International Affairs is hereby recommending that any citizen of the City States immediately leave the nations of Pixiedance, Moldavi, and Insane Power. Citizens are requested to get to a neutral state as soon as possible.

The Federation of Grosseschnauzer has been asked by its fellow schnauzervolk nations still in The North Pacific to inform the Confederated City States of Mikitivity that any citizen of the City States may seek safe haven with those particular nations, and will be afforded all necessary assistance and protection if required.

If I could perhaps interject here.

The Delegate of The North Pacific still votes according to the majority opinion. That has not changed.

Nations are asked to either TG the Delegate nation in NationStates with their vote or post in the designated thread on the official regional forum (listed clearly in the World Factbook Entry). The problems described above are simply from a group of nations that refuse to follow the laws of our region and do things the prescribed and specified way. I am sorry that they feel the need to bother everyone with something so petty as them refusing to vote correctly, but that is the jist of it.

Don't believe the hype.

Thank you and have a nice day.

As I have debated thorughly with you, Pixiedance/Moldavi, I followed the procedures you set down. No post, anywhere in that thread or any other, stated that I could not post a verified and confirmed list of votes from another forum. You did state on the s2 (NPU) forum that you may not count those votes, but you never stated that you would not, indicating that you would. Also, the reason you gave for turning down the votes was not because I failed to follow unwritten procedures, but because I wasn't a "law abiding nation". Which I have disproved repeatedly by the fact that none of the voters whose votes I sent in had never been tried or convicted in front of your kangaroo court system. And I bother everyone so that they will know why a resolution that was passing suddenly fails, even though everyone was voting in favor. Again, as I have said.

Lord Evif is overheard whispering to an aide. "Heh, reminds me of the old Atlantic Alliance days. A small group seeking UN hegemony."

The offsite forums are not subject to the rules of NationStates.net or the United Nations system set in place here.

With a new Delegacy, or Delegacy controller, there is a de facto change in leadership of the region, if said government wishes to change forums, which was done prior to my taking over Pixiedance, as a matter of public record thank you, then it can do so. Regardless of the time spent on a possibly previous offsite forum.

The nations in The North Pacific that wish to have their votes counted will do so in the correct format. As to posting specific votes, a summary was posted after this vote on the s4 forum. Individual votes from nations TGing Pixiedance will not be posted as that is considered a violation of confidentiality. If a nation wishes it's vote to be public, it can vote in the appropriate thread on the forum.

Thank you.

If you two wouldn't mind terribly - The UN can't affect this - beneath the notice of the UN.

You change things by toppling the delegate. If you can't, oh well. Move to another region, or keep working on toppling. That's about it.

I have yet to see anyone's opinion swayed by reason when there is power involved.

The offsite forums are not subject to the rules of NationStates.net or the United Nations system set in place here.

With a new Delegacy, or Delegacy controller, there is a de facto change in leadership of the region, if said government wishes to change forums, which was done prior to my taking over Pixiedance, as a matter of public record thank you, then it can do so. Regardless of the time spent on a possibly previous offsite forum.

The nations in The North Pacific that wish to have their votes counted will do so in the correct format. As to posting specific votes, a summary was posted after this vote on the s4 forum. Individual votes from nations TGing Pixiedance will not be posted as that is considered a violation of confidentiality. If a nation wishes it's vote to be public, it can vote in the appropriate thread on the forum.

Thank you.

Your argument makes no sense. It is illogical.

If it was logical, then by the same tokin, all nations would not be able to see how UN Delegates voted, but there is this lovely little button "UN Delegate Votes". I implore you to seriously consider the system set up on NationStates as a good model, one that should be adopted to some degree at the regional level in order to promote accountability.

Previously I pointed out that you need not reveal the names of nations that telegram you, but if you wish to assert that your voting decisions are democratic based you are obligated (for your own reputation) to provide some degree of transparency.

The forum you replaced when Cathy just handed her nation and hundreds of endorsements to you had a long and established tradition of keeping UN debates out in the open. Though North Pacific Delegates have enjoyed some degrees of freedom while voting, in the year that my nation has been in the UN, most of those delegates, even Great Bight and UPS Rail, realized that transparency can be maintained by simply reporting rough estimates of the numbers of telegrams pro and con.

I already pointed this point out on the North Pacific forum last week ... a point I have yet to see you respond to.

If you (Moldavi) deserve the hundreds of endorsements you have, then you should have absolutely nothing to fear by providing some insight into how your decisions are made. While you might not like the fact that there was an invision forum established long before you took an interest in Cathy or her nation, it does exist and the members expressing their opinions include many North Pacific nations and UN members.

A good delegate, whom respects democracy, would at the very least take note of and make references to the vote / opinions of the nations he / she represents.