NationStates Jolt Archive

PUBLIC NOTICE!

RE UN DELEGATION.

After my 68 days as UN Delegate for the realm and after working hard for the Realm of hibernia in approoving the proposals and voting in the resolutions that effect all our UN Members and after also trying my self to pass proposals in the interests of the peoples of the Realm and the World, I have become increasingly unhappy and frustrated with both the Delegates to the UN and with the ineffectiveness which it runs.
It seems that the majority of the delegates of the UN are only interested in Prostitution issues and it also appears to me that the majority of UN Delegates just simply dont do their job. A delegate is tasked with 1, representing the views and opinions of the majority of its regions UN members. 2 viewing and considering the proposals for aprooval to be moved to the ratification stage for voting and then 3, to vote in good concience on the issues that come up for enacting.

I apologise profusely to the delegates that are still working hard and you will forever command my utmost respect.

As a result of the frustration ,I feel, I have no recourse but to publically protest and resign, not just as delegate but from the UN totally. Maybe some day when it has become more than just an international talk shop i will reapply.

The Delegates job shall fall to whomever has the most endorsements and whomever that is i will confer full moderation rights for the UN section of the realms off site forums.

This is my last post as Delegate to the Realm and as a member of the UN.

Thank you,
President Murphy,
UN Delegate to the Realm of Hibernia. (RETIRED)
:headbang:

I hear ya sista! erm.. . brotha.... uh erm. .. . . Long live the Motherland!!

Thank you arabia for your support in this matter. Perhaps the Delegates and Members will take note of this Public protest and steps shall be taken to make the UN once again Great.

No. In the past two months (since December 7th) nine resolutions have been passed, the first ever repeal has been passed, and (to my knowledge) at least one proposal has been brought to the floor has been voted down.

That's an average of five resolutions per month reaching the floor - one every six days or so.

What more could you ask?

The Armed Republic of Krioval, representing the Region of Chaotica as UN Delegate politely disagrees with the resigning Delegate of the Region of Hibernia. The failure of proposals to achieve quorum is unfortunate, but the quorum system exists to provide a check on flooding UN members with resolutions, some of which should never see the light of day. I will grant that the Organ Donor proposal was quite well-worded both times I've had the privilege of approving it, and that it should have been pushed through.

At the same time, not all Regional Delegates operate under the same rules or constraints. I, for one, am allowed near-total freedom in selecting proposals to approve (OOC: I practically beg for input and get silence in return!), and only recently have member nations disagreed with my personal stance on a resolution under vote; I acceded to their request to vote in favor of that issue despite strong reservations on my part. I personally read through the list of proposals up for discussion twice per day, on average, and I approve ones that I feel are important to the international community. Some Delegates will disagree as to what constitutes an important resolution, and still others are not up to the challenge of monitoring the list of proposals in real time. Then there are Delegates whose endorsing nations are slow to indicate preference on proposals or resolutions, yet the Delegate is obliged to vote only based on the will of the majority, however long that takes.

In the second and third cases, I would recommend a strong program of outreach if quorum is a realistic goal. If a proposal fails because very few Delegates like the proposal, I would consider it appropriate to request assistance or feedback in this forum. Ultimately, Krioval feels that it is inappropriate to give vent to one's frustrations over one's personal proposals failing to be pushed forward. While I understand the frustration that must be inherent to the process, I would attempt to resolve the problem through proactive, rather than reactive, means.

Thank you for your time.

Lord Darvek Tyvok
Kriovalian Ambassador to the UN

Lord Vetinaris attitude to the Workings of the UN in the last post prooves my point. Too many delegates just dont care for the proposals that effect all UN members when enacted.
Maybe this is something that should be raised under the game mechanics forum.

Again I disagree with your premise. Ten proposals that made it to the vote, nine of which passed. A lot of them affect all of the nations in a positive way - the HIV act for one was a major step forward for the benifit of everyone.

I thank the Member Krioval for his approoval and support. This protest is not because the UNWODC did not reach quorum. It is however due to the fact that i could have pushed it through by spamming 500 delegates with a message asking for aprooval in the matter.
My point is i shouldnt have to do that if the Delegates were to simply do their job and read and aproove or not the proposals. I fully understand the reasons for the minimum aproovals rule and agree with it. All i ask is that delegates do what in effect they are appointed to do.

Lord Vetinaris attitude to the Workings of the UN in the last post prooves my point. Too many delegates just dont care for the proposals that effect all UN members when enacted.
Maybe this is something that should be raised under the game mechanics forum.

problem taken care of, i think less endorsements for a proposal are needed and more days to vote for it to get on the floor

I thank the Member Krioval for his approoval and support. This protest is not because the UNWODC did not reach quorum. It is however due to the fact that i could have pushed it through by spamming 500 delegates with a message asking for aprooval in the matter.
My point is i shouldnt have to do that if the Delegates were to simply do their job and read and aproove or not the proposals. I fully understand the reasons for the minimum aproovals rule and agree with it. All i ask is that delegates do what in effect they are appointed to do.

Have you ever thought your proposal was actually not worrhy of being endorsed?

problem taken care of, i think less endorsements for a proposal are needed and more days to vote for it to get on the floor

And yet with the rules in place as they are we have had one proposal to vote on for every week in the past two months. Somehow these all managed to get the support required in the time provided.

Out of curiosity, by how much did the last attempt fail? Usually, I don't pay close attention to proposals I've already endorsed.

just so you know i agree that items have been past and i have been involved with some of them. I am fully aware that nations are effected in a positive way like the Hiv example you gave
However that is not the point i am trying to make.
I felt the original version of the UNWODC bill was not good enough to get the support which is why i brought it here. Judging by those who have voted in the poll for the final draft only 1 nation voted against it so i do feel that it was not given the fair perusal of the Delegates of the UN under the limited time constraint.
My point is simply, As a Delegate of the UN shouldnt you be charged at the very least to look at the proposals?
It appears to me that those that do are in a minority.

When i last posted the bill for aprooval it maxed out at under 60 aproovals. This was after purposly posting it so it fell on a week end when i presumed delegates would have the time to look at proposals.
The previous time i spammed 250 delegates seeking their support, 106 i believe was the ammount when the time ran out.

And with all due respect, this is just a game. This next week - to give you a rough example - I have to deal with a major customer invasion at work, a deadline for some software I am coding, the installation of backup software on the mail server. Along with that my girlfriend is coming to stay - the first time we will have seen each other in nearly two months and it is my birthday and I am going out with my Amy and my family.

Now I enjoy this game - it is fun. But in comparrison to everything above - some of which my job might well depend on - this game is entirely unimportant.

Agrees we all have real lives and i hope you have a great time with your GF and family. I too have a wife and two young sons and I also work often with much overtime. I play the game. I follow the rules of that game. If i dont have the time to be as active on the game i make my mind up to take a less demanding role in it.
Its 2 am Monday 14th, (happy valentines day people) and here i am playing the game.

problem taken care of, i think less endorsements for a proposal are needed and more days to vote for it to get on the floor
This has been proposed many many times, and been turned down many many times. The current system works, and there is no pressing need to change it.

(speaking non-moddishly here, only from long experience of reading Moderation and Technical. I've heard of no plans to alter this since being modded, so my point holds)

did you endorse the repeal of the global library?

if not, could you do so now, then not resign until after it expires?

if you already endorsed it, could you wait until after the proposal expires before you resign?

please.

View Poll Results: Do you approove this draft proposal for the UNWODC?
Yes. 13 - 76.47%
No. 1 - 5.88%
Undecided 3 - 17.65%
Voters: 17. You have already voted on this poll.


I know this is only a small poll but all polls are representative and generally show what the majority would vote.

Apologies Asshelmetta but i have looked at the proposal to appeal the Global library and in my view its ideals were noble. Sure some of its points were probably unworkable but as an ideal its dream of information for all stands to be admired.

I had to take my action to raise the Issue i have with the UN immediately and as such have already tendered my resignation to the UN

just so you know i agree that items have been past and i have been involved with some of them. I am fully aware that nations are effected in a positive way like the Hiv example you gave
However that is not the point i am trying to make.
I felt the original version of the UNWODC bill was not good enough to get the support which is why i brought it here. Judging by those who have voted in the poll for the final draft only 1 nation voted against it so i do feel that it was not given the fair perusal of the Delegates of the UN under the limited time constraint.
My point is simply, As a Delegate of the UN shouldnt you be charged at the very least to look at the proposals?
It appears to me that those that do are in a minority.
Rather than blaming the delegates, I would blame the software of the game.
The proposals queue is a nightmare.

Nothing to tell you what day a proposal was entered, no way to sort except by time entered, no way to tell which proposals you've already looked at.

No links from the proposal queue to the discussion topic in the forum.

heh. they shouldn't be allowed to enter a proposal without first having a discussion topic in this forum.

Also to you Asshelmetta and the others who helped with ideas for the Proposed UNWODC i salute your participation. Yours is an example that should be noted by other members of the UN and the Nationstates Game.

So, if you're leaving, can I have your desk?

and that cool lamp.

As a delegate my first Proposal was in itself a joke proposal. I ensured i read every proposal that came to the aprooval area and voted on those that were deemed to uphold the ideals of the members of the Region who had charged me with the task. I proposed that all joke proposals be removed by moderators asap so that delegates time was not wasted reading them.

It was thrown out with out reaching the quorum. :)

So, if you're leaving, can I have your desk?

and that cool lamp.

:p


Would you rob my grave as quick?!

When i last posted the bill for aprooval it maxed out at under 60 aproovals. This was after purposly posting it so it fell on a week end when i presumed delegates would have the time to look at proposals.
The previous time i spammed 250 delegates seeking their support, 106 i believe was the ammount when the time ran out.

106 endorsements is actually a significant number.

When the Tsunami Warning System resolution hit the floor, myself, Grosseschaunzer, and Asshelmetta were agressively telegramming nations for support.

The next resolution to hit the floor was Groot Gouda's The Sex Industry Worker Act, and this time Groot Gouda, Asshelmetta, and my government combined efforts to telegram for support.

Gwenstefani has been working on its resolution, Humanitarian Intervention, actively since the beginning of Jan. 2005 and had to work hard. Gwenstefani would probably tell us whom has aided in getting Humanitarian Intervention to the floor (I secretly suspect the Chipmunks are up to something ... they always are).

And Hirota's resolution about indigenous people's has been on the books for months!

My point is don't give up yet. I actually like your resolution (then again, I have a huge soft spot for the International Red Cross). ;) But what I think you need to do is ask for nations that have time to help with a re-write and campaign effort. I'd highly recommend you look at the nations that favor Humanitarian Intervention (Gwenstefani's resolution) and consider that a potential basis of support for your resolution. Copy those names tonight and keep faith that your idea will get its chance on the UN floor.

As for your poll, I too agree that the UN is at times disfunctional, but I fault that to a lack of leadership. Too many nations use the UN just to debate proposals and resolutions and talk about the wonderous aspects of their nations. While that is fine, when experienced nations that have been doing this for a half year or so continue to do this, there are very few guiding hands to focus on improving the quality of the resolutions themselves and also making it easy to telegram for support.

My first telegramming campaigns in 2004 were stressful. I was most certainly abrasive. When I telegrammed for the last two resolutions, not a problem whatsoever happened. :)

It really does get easier with time.

When i last posted the bill for aprooval it maxed out at under 60 aproovals. This was after purposly posting it so it fell on a week end when i presumed delegates would have the time to look at proposals.
The previous time i spammed 250 delegates seeking their support, 106 i believe was the ammount when the time ran out.Recognising and enhancing the recommendations pertaining to organ donors governed by resolution #55, World Blood Bank,

Recognising and affirming article 4 of Resolution #26, the Universal Bill of Rights, and accepting that the membership of the UNWODC, by any Nation or individual is voluntary,

Extending the role of the International Red Cross / Crescent Organisation (IRCO) as per resolution #29,

Recognising the articles of resolution #49, Rights and duties of UN States, ....
You quoted these four resolutions as a partial basis for your proposal. One would therefore assume that you give them some creedence as valuable and important international law.

Would it surprise you to learn that Rights and Duties (which I authored) spent two weeks on the UN Forum getting tweaked and poked until it was where it needed to be? That it was widely praised as one of the best resolutions to come to the floor in a long time? That it had heavy UN forum support and enthusiastic volunteers offering to help get it passed?

Would it then surprise you that it took me three attempts to get it approved by enough delegates? That I tried several different technical strategies to make it stay on the floor longer and reach more delegates? That I sent perhaps 4000 telegrams over the course of the three appeals, customizing each sent telegram to the recipient nation (and not sending any to nations that stated in their WFE or RMB that that weren't interested in the UN)?

Getting a proposal approved is HARD work. Ask Enn about Habeus Corpus sometime. I think that one was submitted once or twice a month for four or five months before enough volunteers stepped up to the plate to help. Others have just sailed through, but I tell you that it's much rarer than the reverse.

You've just scratched the surface, and you're walking away mad. You've got a good idea, but you're impatient. Stick with it, don't stick with it, I don't care. But don't blame the system. It works fine for plenty of us.

the global library repeal has 147 approvals.

my third successful telegramming campaign.
I may have that many unsuccessful ones.

You've already done the really hard parts of the proposal process, VL.
You got 106 once, you can get it passed next time.

Just so you know I spammed delegates for aprooval and actually got replies not to do so, which i agree totally with. Why should this be the way to get attention of the Delegates when surely aprooving proposals is a fundamental task of the UN Delegate.

Also it can take Hours to spam a significant amount of delegates with details of your proposal. I seriously and possably naively think all delegates should be charged with reading the proposals. Those that dont should be removed as delegates.

the global library repeal has 147 approvals.

Just wondering? How many delegates did you have to Telegram to achieve the desired coverage?

This has been proposed many many times, and been turned down many many times. The current system works, and there is no pressing need to change it.

(speaking non-moddishly here, only from long experience of reading Moderation and Technical. I've heard of no plans to alter this since being modded, so my point holds)

There is however a change that I should think be made to the proposal queue itself. I'm happy with the 6% figure, but UN Delegates should be able to sort the queue by endorsements recieved or filter the queue by category. In particular they should have a pick list that would allow them to reject ... oh say repeals.

An easier alternative would be for the game to telegram proposal authors after they've submitted their proposal and give them a better estimate of when their proposal would normally expire. One of the most frequent questions I've seen in the past year is people wondering why their proposals expire mid-day. The question is easily answered, but few proposal authors think to:

1) Save their text in a word processor for resubmittal,
2) Copy a list of those who endorsed their proposal to use for a resubmittal.

These aren't big deals, and I'd put them at a low priority, but I think they should be addressed long before the 6% number is revisited. For some reason, Dec. and Jan. saw a decline in NationStates nations and UN members. I've been tracking the "global" population since Nov. 2004 and the two sets of numbers track relatively the same (which was something I wasn't expecting). For some fortunately reason, the 6% number plus a 30 day expiration rate on inactive nations seems to work to a point were at any time, it is possible for a UN proposal author to break the 200 endorsement level (which is something I've seen happen on an uncommon frequency in the past year). I honestly think we've dumb lucked into a set of parameters which places the burden on getting a proposal to the resolution queue on the proposal authors, and I think this actually encourages better quality resolutions.

It is no secret that I hold most of the 2003 resolutions to be "stinky" at best. The grammar used was horrible. The formatting worse. The ideas were at times silly. I've long believed that the stability we've enjoyed since early 2004 is really related to the 6% at 30 days formula, which may have worked out different in the heyday of mid-2003. (NOTE: there were some good 2003 resolutions, but having retyped them all, I sort of dread those early ones.)

I resigned from the UN as a way of raising this problem and raising eyebrows.
It has had the desired effect in so far as this topic is little over an hour old and is already a hot topic.

there are, what, 10,000 regions and 3,000 delegates?
and no more than a few hundred of those delegates are really active in any given week.

I'd be surprised if even 100 separate delegates visited this forum in a week.
Half the active posters here aren't delegates.

The trick is to figure out which ones are active.




p.s. If you're getting replies from delegates asking you not to spam them, you've got a problem with your telegrams.

If you rejoin and resubmit your proposal, I can and will help you come up with a telegram that will win support and not get anyone angry with you.

I'm sure Mikitivity could come up with a good list of likely prospects, too.

Start with the ones who approved your proposal the last 2 times. Do you have the lists of those delegates?

I resigned from the UN as a way of raising this problem and raising eyebrows.
It has had the desired effect in so far as this topic is little over an hour old and is already a hot topic.

Point made. Consider rejoining and endorsing a new Delegate (if you're done with the position)?

*makes off with all the furniture*

Honestly, we could not care less. This is the UN. This is what happens in it. People are people and will act as they choose - this is not a body with the ability to enforce participation.

These aren't big deals, and I'd put them at a low priority, but I think they should be addressed long before the 6% number is revisited. For some reason, Dec. and Jan. saw a decline in NationStates nations and UN members. I've been tracking the "global" population since Nov. 2004 and the two sets of numbers track relatively the same (which was something I wasn't expecting). For some fortunately reason, the 6% number plus a 30 day expiration rate on inactive nations seems to work to a point were at any time, it is possible for a UN proposal author to break the 200 endorsement level (which is something I've seen happen on an uncommon frequency in the past year). I honestly think we've dumb lucked into a set of parameters which places the burden on getting a proposal to the resolution queue on the proposal authors, and I think this actually encourages better quality resolutions.

I fully agree with the 6% rule. I just believe that not enough of the delegates are viewing the proposals in order to achieve this within the time period allowed. I too have seen proposals get 200 + aproovals but it appears to be luck of the draw on availability of delegates.

p.s. If you're getting replies from delegates asking you not to spam them, you've got a problem with your telegrams.

I am well spoken and i know how to approach delegates humbly beseeching there aprooval. My point is i shouldnt have to.

Just wondering? How many delegates did you have to Telegram to achieve the desired coverage?
hundreds. ask nargopia.

i think we had 5 people with a hundred or more each. i assume that's in addition to pojonia re-telegramming the people who had previously approved it.

and this for a resolution that had a real groundswell of support - there were 4 or 5 different repeal proposals for global library every time i checked the queue for the last couple weeks.

the telegram itself is very important:

mention the delegate's name and region in the first line
format it well
use good grammar
mention the current page number in the queue
link to the topic in the forum
add a p.s. about their flag or currency or a name you recognize in their region.

*makes off with all the furniture*

Honestly, we could not care less. This is the UN. This is what happens in it. People are people and will act as they choose - this is not a body with the ability to enforce participation.
I care.

VL convinced me the organ donor center was a good idea.

there are, what, 10,000 regions and 3,000 delegates?
and no more than a few hundred of those delegates are really active in any given week.

Ballpark numbers:
15,000 regions
2,500 delegates --> 145 approvals needed

And my impression is that in a given week that about 1/5 of those delegates at max are active. Grosseschaunzer and I were able to contact and collect well over 300 endorsements, but we: (1) had massive help, (2) were operating on a very popular and transparent topic, and (3) I've done this time so many times my head spins when I sit still. ;)

If another resolution breaks the record set by the Tsunami Warning System in the next month, I'd be shocked.

The good news is that despite turnover (which constantly sucks up experienced players) the UN's relationship with the feeders is improving. This is important because all of the feeders have started creating embassies, which makes it easier for proposal authors to connect with those 500 or so active delegates.


I'd be surprised if even 100 separate delegates visited this forum in a week.
Half the active posters here aren't delegates.

The trick is to figure out which ones are active.


I could not have said it better! :)

I tried a no-telegram campaign with two of my resolutions:

a Peaceful Uses of Outer Space
a Beer Accord

The Peaceful Uses of Outer Space was actually only a few tens of endorsements away from reaching the UN floor. If I wanted to, I know that I could easily telegram and get this proposal to the floor. The problem isn't the resolution, but my fear that it would fail -- it was a Global Disarmament resolution and still suffered from the "only 1/3 of the nations are in the UN" argument. Around July (the anniversary of Track Near Earth Objects), I have a different Global Disarmament surprise to spring on nations ... and I know that Science Fiction lovers will *love* my idea (assuming somebody doesn't beat me to it).

The Beer Accord will come back in April or March, but I'm interested in the International Democratic Union resolultion ideas right now, so my time is with my region's priorities. :) But the basic Free Trade resolution will only reach the floor with massive telegramming. Oh yeah, I also am buying time for me to collect more NationStates survey data.


p.s. If you're getting replies from delegates asking you not to spam them, you've got a problem with your telegrams.

If you rejoin and resubmit your proposal, I can and will help you come up with a telegram that will win support and not get anyone angry with you.

I'm sure Mikitivity could come up with a good list of likely prospects, too.

Start with the ones who approved your proposal the last 2 times. Do you have the lists of those delegates?

Your method sounds just as good as I was going to suggest. :) For examples of telegrams the IDU uses, visit our off-site forum (located in my signature file). Feel free to copy and modify one of our telegrams.

One last bit of advice, if a Delegate messages you back and seems friendly, by all means try to telegram him or her back! Friendships and alliances can be founded on these telegrams. Unlike here where people bash each others arguments, most telegrams are very friendly. If they aren't ... I have a special place I store those nations. ;)

Point made. Consider rejoining and endorsing a new Delegate (if you're done with the position)?

I originally decided to give up the task as delegate for my region to give other members a go at participating in the better roles of the game. I had no intention of resigning as a Member of the UN but as i became increasingly frustrated at the lack of participation i decided to thake the steps i took to increase awareness. I will become a UN Member again. when is yet to be decided. As for my proposal for the UNWODC i may or may not submit it again.
time i guess will tell

While the U.N. might definitely need a better sorting system (in particular, a way to view all of the proposals at once would solve the problem), it isn't necessarily a bad effect. While gaining the 6 percent of approvals is really, really hard, that prevents people who aren't serious about their proposals and repeals from ever reaching the floor, where (as examples such as the Global Library have proven) they often pass out of ideal alone.

You have to put a good deal of work into this to get something out that puts your name in the U.N. history books, and that feature matches politics in the real world. You have to have help, you have to try hard, and you have to have a good idea and a spellchecker. It's hard. Deal with it. It isn't luck of the draw to get that support, it's all of the above. Finally, as someone who just reached queue on the repeal of "The Global Library", I can attest that delegates are not above a little overzealous telegramming so long as it is literate and sincere.
Except Uber Penguins.

Also, since the lamp and furniture are gone, I'm taking your hat. I don't care if you rejoin, I'm taking it anyways.

My head is spinning with the replies to this and i did not in my wildest dreams think it would have gotten this reaction. as ever i am humbled by the members who have taken the time here to reply and i have noted your remarks.

I have also posted security staff with tazors outside my office. and i miss my beret :p

i will wait 24 hours and will apply to rejoin the UN. I however as previously planed will not be resuming the task of Delegate, thus opening the position to another member of my region.

i will wait 24 hours and will apply to rejoin the UN. I however as previously planed will not be resuming the task of Delegate, thus opening the position to another member of my region.
Well then it's not your office anymore, is it?

Would those curtains go with the carpet in my antechamber?

Would those curtains go with the carpet in my antechamber?
It's important that the curtains match the carpet, or so I've been told.

Curtains, carpets and berets are immaterial although made of material!

The debate remains....
Should it be made compulsory for all UN Delegates to view the proposals for any new bills?
The Venerable Libertarians say yes!

Can i have my beret back, My mom gave that to me?

It's important that the curtains match the carpet, or so I've been told.
doesn't matter to me at all, fact...

OOC: bah! all the funny responses I can think of are inappropriate. and I have a particular affinity for blonde jokes.

Hmmm...

::looks around, then quietly pockets the stereo system::

Yes, Ennish coats have big pockets.

The debate remains....
Should it be made compulsory for all UN Delegates to view the proposals for any new bills?
The Venerable Libertarians say yes!
While it would be good, there is no real way to enforce this. How were you intending it to be carried out?

Just wondering? How many delegates did you have to Telegram to achieve the desired coverage?
I gathered a list of about 600-700 delegates. The problem is that with a list that big, several (my rough estimate is 5%) of those on the list are no longer delegates by the time the telegrams are sent out.

In all honesty, VL, I do not approve of your resignation. I honestly think that you have been an asset to this body, and your leaving would only make the situation you despise worse. I would rather you stay and continue the struggle to make this the best UN it can be (patriotic, inspirational music in background).

Enn, shut off your coat, it's playing patriotic music in the background.

In all honesty, VL, I do not approve of your resignation. I honestly think that you have been an asset to this body, and your leaving would only make the situation you despise worse. I would rather you stay and continue the struggle to make this the best UN it can be (patriotic, inspirational music in background).

Again i am humbled by your kind words nargopia and i can reassure you that i will be after 24hrs has passed be rejoining the UN.
I have every intention of staying as a member and my resignation was a stunt as it were to raise the issue of Delegate inaction.
I feel together, The nations of the UN can strive to make the UN the organisation and its Ideals great once more.

Enn, shut off your coat, it's playing patriotic music in the background.
That's what that was! I thought I had wandered into the White House again...

My head is spinning with the replies to this and i did not in my wildest dreams think it would have gotten this reaction. as ever i am humbled by the members who have taken the time here to reply and i have noted your remarks.

I have also posted security staff with tazors outside my office. and i miss my beret :p

i will wait 24 hours and will apply to rejoin the UN. I however as previously planed will not be resuming the task of Delegate, thus opening the position to another member of my region.

Ah, that's where he got the beret.

Too late, we have your furniture. However, we will... mmm... send you the beret in question once your confirmation into the UN is demonstrated.

Should take about that long to get back from the dry cleaners...

Again i am humbled by your kind words nargopia and i can reassure you that i will be after 24hrs has passed be rejoining the UN.
I have every intention of staying as a member and my resignation was a stunt as it were to raise the issue of Delegate inaction.
I feel together, The nations of the UN can strive to make the UN the organisation and its Ideals great once more.

My government is very pleased to here this. In fact, it is rare that a nation withdrawls to return and be eager to work within the UN to improve it. We are very optimistic that your government's contribution will be most valued!

The main problem, IMHO, is that there are too delegate with only 1 endorsement, and this rise the quorum to reach to 140 delegates, when only 50/60 are the really actives.

However, it CAN be done - it just takes some real work to get it done.

As a measure, my telegram/endorsement rate ran at 2:1. When you consider that's 138 Delegates to get to quorum back then, it was alot of telegramming.

I think it works fine the way it does. Today is 69 days since December 7th, when The Eon Convention was passed. That was in production (for want of a better phrase) for around for nearly a month before it was passed.

Since then there have been 12 proposals discussed (or about to be) on the Floor. That means we have had one proposal approved every five days or so. If it were the case that the delegates were not doing their job, then we would not have had any proposals on the Floor in all that time. But one every five days?

The delegates are doing their job, and if a proposal doesn't get approved then I would say there are probably other reasons to be found without blaming people for not reading it.

Venerable Libertarians agrees with the 6% rule.
Venerable Libertarians dissagrees that the delegates are doing their job.
Venerable Libertarians would like to see some kind of strike out system installed in the game mechanics and possibly a rule that a delegate can only be appointed to a region that has over 10+ UN members.
why? well the very fact that of 2500+ delegates only 500 odd are active and of that 500 there are delegates that do not care to even look at the UN in any way at all and are only interested in the delegate position as a means to control of their associated region.

So you all know i have been heartened by the responses i have recieved here and as such i have decided and am awaiting a reply to my application to rejoin as a UN Member.

If only the Delegates of the UN could have shown the same spirit and responsiblity as the members here in the forums have, I doubt this thread would have been launched.

You do realise that some of the most active delegates come from regions with only a few members, let alone UN members, right?

You do realise that some of the most active delegates come from regions with only a few members, let alone UN members, right?
I was going to say...

VL's last proposal would exclude me.

I stand corrected. Apologies if i caused offense.

You know what I want to say to you, Venerable Libertarians? CRAM IT. Why should any delegate be forced to trawl through the proposals? Contrary to what you think they don't have any duty or any obligation to, and if the nations they represent don't like it, then that's what endorsements are for.

You have it the wrong way round. You should be approaching delegates if you want their endorsement, not expecting them to look at all the tons of festering crap that fills the proposal queue. If after spamming delegates you're at over a 100, then that's already quite good. TG more of them next time around.

If they don't care about the UN and only want the delegate position as symbolic of their leadership, what's wrong with that? And who are you to decide what delegates should do, or what their "duties" are? Honestly, you are behaving like a stuck-up little kid blaming his parents for not doing their jobs and earning enough money so he can have more toys.

Not all delegates are active in the UN. Deal with it.

"Not all UN delegates are active in the UN"

That IS a problem, because that is actually what they are voted to do. Hence the name, UN Delegate.

However, it shouldn't be too easy for a propsal to reach the floor. If a proposal is worthy enough, it will get there, and if it's not too easy then this stops unworthy proposals getting there. It does take alot of hard work, and often several attempts, but if people are willing to put in this effort, then it shows they truly believe in their proposal and that is is then worthy of UN consideration, especially if they get enough Delegate endorsements.

Should delegates routinely look through the proposal lists? I think they should try to, even if it's just the first couple of pages. But ultimately, it is up to the proposal submitters to generate interest, to canvass delegates, to get their votes.

I think the system does work. Yes, it might be nice if more people got more involved, but the fact that they don't isn't hindering progress being made here.

When i last posted the bill for aprooval it maxed out at under 60 aproovals. This was after purposly posting it so it fell on a week end when i presumed delegates would have the time to look at proposals.
The previous time i spammed 250 delegates seeking their support, 106 i believe was the ammount when the time ran out.

106! That's incredibly successful! Especially from only 250 telegrams! Please, Venerable Librarians, stay in the UN. You can do a lot of good here. If you leave that's one less delegate that's actually interested in proposals and resolutions. A lot of delegates are in the position only for regional politics--which is admirable--but there is need for them to help elsewhere. If my telegramming 250 delegates you got 106 approvals, you most definitely can get it passed by just telegramming a hundred or two more of the 1000+ delegates out there.

What you need is just a little help with the telegram campaign. It's part of a "quality control" device in the UN that browsing proposals is not exactly an easy or rewarding thing for delegates to do. It keeps proposals which say "I am t3H 133+ H4X0R5" from making it to the general vote where, by some exotic and strange circumstance they can actually become international law. your proposal seems to have great merit if you got 106 approvals from 250 telegrams. You need to either increase your telegramming campaign by a hundred ro two yourself, or get another telegrammer on board--together increasing the range of your telegramming campaign.

I telegrammed for "The Global Library". I'm not proud of it, but I thought the author was going to fix it and wasn't thorough enough to check to see if he did. It, doubtless, was not as well-qualified to be a resolution as yours, yet I was able to get enough approvals to bring it to vote. You just need to contact gobs and gobs of delegates. With enough telegrams, I maintain that even a moderately crappy proposal can hack it.

There are over 15 pages of proposal, with 5 proposal on each page. That's incredibly time consuming for delegates to get a handle on, especially considering the percentage of those proposal which are trashy. While ideally it's the delegates' duty to browse for proposals and find proposals to approve, we can't expect them to do that, there's no incentive. Only if you make it much more convenient for them (telegramming them about a good proposal) can we expect them to step out of their regional affairs onto the global stage for an approval.

I suggest you redraft slightly, resubmit, telegram those that approved the last one and either telegram 350 yourself, or get another nation on board for the telegramming. I'm unavailable this week as I'm telegramming for my own proposal.

Really, I hope you stay in the UN. You're a good delegate. We need more delegates like you.

Just wondering? How many delegates did you have to Telegram to achieve the desired coverage?

I honestly don't remember how many I had to telegram for Nucla Terra. It was done in piecemeal, submission after submission. I think I sent out over 500 telegrams, just over a month or so, to about 300 different delegates.

Reformed Literacy Initiative I sent out 500, I believe. Got as many as I could the first day (I usually submit about 11 or 12 EST and I didn't eat the rest of the day).

The Repeal of Legalize Prostitution had comparable numbers to RFI. This one though. was a little more targetted. I'd made lists of delegates that approved repeals of of legalize pros before, other anti-pros legislation, and even anti-gay rights legislation (figuring they'd probably oppose pros as well). Repeals are tricky because repeals of the same resolution all have the same name and it's just about impossible to get them for delegates to track them down. I found a window when there weren't any other repeals of pros in line, so I could reference delegates to search for it. If you database interested delegates and find the right window, repeals are just as easy as normal proposals.

Anyway, in each case I had to send out 500 or so telegrams. The fact that you got 106 approvals from 250 telegrams tells me you're doing really, really well. Right now, I've telegrammed almost 200 for the repeal of "Education for All". I have 45 approvals :(. Lukily it still has two and a half days-ish. I'll likely go on another binge tonight and, hopefully, double the number telegrammed. I think I'll be lucky to get a 33% telegram-to-approval efficiency. You got just under 50% for your telegram-approval ratio. Rock on.

Anyway, in each case I had to send out 500 or so telegrams. The fact that you got 106 approvals from 250 telegrams tells me you're doing really, really well. Right now, I've telegrammed almost 200 for the repeal of "Education for All". I have 45 approvals :(. Lukily it still has two and a half days-ish. I'll likely go on another binge tonight and, hopefully, double the number telegrammed. I think I'll be lucky to get a 33% telegram-to-approval efficiency. You got just under 50% for your telegram-approval ratio. Rock on.

My ballpark number on all three of my self authored resolutions was around 1:3 endorsement rating. Meaning when I got 300 endorsements, there was a heck of a lot more than 300 telegrams sent out.

I'd like to add that Asshelmetta's advice on what to include in a telegram is spot on with what I've found works best.

Grosseschaunzer has some actual numbers on the success rate of our combined efforts to telegram for the Tsunami Warning System resolution, and I was honestly hoping to put all of these ballpark numbers into text by talking him into co-writing another White Paper.

(The deal with these White Papers, is I eventually want a series of them out there, so when these issues pop up, tech minded players can go and read them and *share* experience learned. With that in mind I'd love for anybody who has the telegramming experience you do to be a part of this process.) :)

You really don't even have to telegram as many delegates as that. It's not how many you telegram, it's telegramming the right ones...

And I'm not sure if I want to give away my secrets to just any cause, but I was working on my own so couldn't really get a huge TG campaign going (couldn't be arsed in other words). I'm going to guess I sent out about 100 maybe? At most 200... But there are ways of telegramming only those nations that are most likely to respond and vote favourably.

Oh. And also, some days and times are better for submitting a proposal than others. You want to end up on the first page of the proposal lists at some point- plan ahead, work it out, and you will be. I found also that certain days have a higher number of users than others, some days the UN is comparatively dead.

If you have a proposal I support, I'll tell you these things. But I really don't want to help out all the repeals to my resolution that are about to spring up. Sorry.

You really don't even have to telegram as many delegates as that. It's not how many you telegram, it's telegramming the right ones...

I totally agree. I got 120 approvals the last time I submitted my Right to Self-Protection proposal, and I only telegrammed about 150 delegates.

Ladies and Gentlemen members of the UN,
I have been heartened by your messages of support, criticism and concern.
I have Been accepted back as a member of the UN. How ever, I have Passed on the torch of Delegate to Irlynn. I am certain she will strive to fulfill the requirements of the Delegates job and will mirror my commitment.

I will be trying again to push through the UNWODC as soon as i recieve the mandatory 2 endorsements to do so. I hope i can get the assistance of the members here making delegates aware of the bill and lets hope it is brought before the members for ratification this time.

Again i praise and thank the Members who have replied to the thread for their commitment.

President Murphy,
President of the Nations of the Realm of Hibernia.

I officially end my protest on posting this notice. I have been reassured that there are members of the UN who do care for its Basic functions. I am not fully appeased but i shall strive to effect change from within.

The proposal for the UNWODC shall be submitted in March and will be posted to these forums for review probably a week or two before it is submitted.

Thank you all for your comments and Advice whilst this protest was in effect.

President Murphy,
Proud to be a UN Member,
The Realm of Hibernia. :)

Rats, and we were eyeing that easyback chair in your atrium...

Seriously - like in all groups, there are those who are interested, and those who are not. Find those that work with you, and you'll be fine.