NationStates Jolt Archive

Members of the United Nations:

It is rare we address the UN here but we feel we must. A tradgey occured today. The legalization of prosititution, which has been illegal within Trekkers boarder since it's beginning. The recent BS resolution will not be allowed within Trekkers boarders though we will remain in the UN.

We encorage other nations to follow suit. We are embarrased by this body of nations that you have enacted this immoral and stupid resolution.

You do know it doesn't matter what you say, it will be legal as long as you remain in the UN?

Have a nice day.

You do know it doesn't matter what you say, it will be legal as long as you remain in the UN?

Have a nice day.

Yeah, kind of by definition.

You can kick and scream and stamp your feet and say it's not for as long as you want, but it's still legal in your country as long as you are in the U.N.

The UN is not all powerful. North Korea proved this when it took the cameras out of their buildings and Iraq proved this when they expelled the weapons inspectors. The US proves this whenever it invades someone or vetoes a resolution. Unless armed invasions become part of the game. We can stay in the UN and refuse to abide by such filthy resolutions as whoring or baby killing. Have a nice day :)


:mp5:
:sniper:
The People of Francaden stand with any nation who defies the UN.

Calm down. There's a giant loophole in the resolution. All you have to do is define the term "mature" in your country mean 50+. Don't think the legal prostitution industry will take off very well. And if it does, who wants to know?

There are any number of ways an evil government could subvert the resolution to effectively keep prostitution illegal.

It would be a great injustice, and cause countless unnecessary suffering and death, but it could be done.

If you're evil enough.

One nation's Hitler is another nation's Bush. Either way, how is it evil to keep whoring illegal? Keep in mind whoring is legal in my country if you are willing to deal with the demands.

The UN is not all powerful. North Korea proved this when it took the cameras out of their buildings and Iraq proved this when they expelled the weapons inspectors. The US proves this whenever it invades someone or vetoes a resolution. Unless armed invasions become part of the game. We can stay in the UN and refuse to abide by such filthy resolutions as whoring or baby killing. Have a nice day :)

The People of Francaden stand with any nation who defies the UN.

You can't actually do that. If you are in the UN, then all of the resolutions it passes are automatically implemented in your nation, in their entirety, with or without your consent. There is no ability to rebel against or refuse the U.N.. Also, since this isn't the real life U.N., the instances you give as examples don't really apply, since neither the U.S. nor Iraq exist in Nationstates.

If you believe a resolution you vehemently oppose is going to pass, then leave the U.N.. Otherwise, like magic, whoring and baby killing are going to be perfectly legal in your nation.

P.S. I intentionally took the sniper and MP5 smilies out of your post when I quoted it, because it makes you and I both look like idiots.

But how can you force whoring and baby killing on my nation without an invasion? If only legal un sanctioned things happen in nations then there is no reason for such resolutions as there would be no crimes done in the nations. I'm sticking with my idea about telling the un to butt out of nations moral affairs. You can whine about it, but its not changing anything.
:mp5:
:mp5:
:mp5:
:sniper:
:mad:
:upyours:

But how can you force whoring and baby killing on my nation without an invasion? If only legal un sanctioned things happen in nations then there is no reason for such resolutions as there would be no crimes done in the nations. I'm sticking with my idea about telling the un to butt out of nations moral affairs. You can whine about it, but its not changing anything.

Baby killing?

I didn't think this resolution even mentioned abortion, if that's what that was about.

This resolution doesn't force whoring on your nation. It forces you to recognize that whoring has been happening in your nation all along, and forces you to regulate it and do something to prevent the worst side effects.

Baby killing is already forced on my nation thru other fascist resolutions by this un. But i'm taking a stand. I am staying in the UN but not going to have the following things: metric system, a ban on landmines, euthanasia, gay marriage, or stem cell research. To get around the un's demands, all these things are officially legal, but a private army of the President which only answers to the President of Francaden will put an end to all these. Since the President controls the normal military and the police of Francaden he can order them not to interfere ;) . Furthermore the legal age of maturity for whoring has been raised to 140. Any current whores under that age can no longer work as a whore, but will now have to pay all their income whether cash or material to Francaden.

Death to the un :upyours:

Baby killing is already forced on my nation thru other fascist resolutions by this un. But i'm taking a stand. I am staying in the UN but not going to have the following things: metric system, a ban on landmines, euthanasia, gay marriage, or stem cell research. To get around the un's demands, all these things are officially legal, but a private army of the President which only answers to the President of Francaden will put an end to all these. Since the President controls the normal military and the police of Francaden he can order them not to interfere ;) . Furthermore the legal age of maturity for whoring has been raised to 140. Any current whores under that age can no longer work as a whore, but will now have to pay all their income whether cash or material to Francaden.

Death to the un :upyours:
That's the spirit!

You're going the full fascist evile dictator route!
Oh, you probably want to look into the EON convention and other resolutions before you set up your concentration camps. You wouldn't want Green Israel or someone pulling you into the International Court of Justice over a technical error, now.

Personally, I'm more annoyed that the same day prostitution gets legalized (again), I get an issue telling me that my nation has an STD epidemic. Especially considering the fact that my nation has so many restrictions on legal brothels that not one has ever opened and trying to open one has been termed "Financial Suicide."

Well thank God i'm not a protestant or I would care about what Israel had to say.

The UN is not all powerful. North Korea proved this when it took the cameras out of their buildings and Iraq proved this when they expelled the weapons inspectors. The US proves this whenever it invades someone or vetoes a resolution. Unless armed invasions become part of the game. We can stay in the UN and refuse to abide by such filthy resolutions as whoring or baby killing. Have a nice day :)


:mp5:
:sniper:
The People of Francaden stand with any nation who defies the UN.


That's the Real Life UN. This is NSUN, and the UN Gnomes automatically rewrite your laws - you don't have a choice in the matter, or ability to resist.

Baby killing is already forced on my nation thru other fascist resolutions by this un. But i'm taking a stand. I am staying in the UN but not going to have the following things: metric system, a ban on landmines, euthanasia, gay marriage, or stem cell research. To get around the un's demands, all these things are officially legal, but a private army of the President which only answers to the President of Francaden will put an end to all these. Since the President controls the normal military and the police of Francaden he can order them not to interfere ;) . Furthermore the legal age of maturity for whoring has been raised to 140. Any current whores under that age can no longer work as a whore, but will now have to pay all their income whether cash or material to Francaden.

Death to the un :upyours:

As you can't discriminate against any class or type of people (read the other resolutions), you just raised your LEGAL age of maturity to 140.

So now as your people can't legally drive or join the military, I'm going to invade you with a crew of girl scouts.

As for the rest of it - One more time, Daffy - you can not resist the implementation of UN Resolutions in your nation. You can make laws that go around it, you can make laws that further your acceptance, or you can make rants like the one you did and look what you look like now.

The UN Gnomes are probably working overtime in your nation to fix your laws, but what the hell, their overtime comes out of your treasury.

Personally, I'm more annoyed that the same day prostitution gets legalized (again), I get an issue telling me that my nation has an STD epidemic. Especially considering the fact that my nation has so many restrictions on legal brothels that not one has ever opened and trying to open one has been termed "Financial Suicide."

It's those illegal brothels, because you made it so hard to do... ah well, Darwin was right.

For the record, while I was in the UN, I received the Euthanasia issue. I don't really get it.

I am staying in the UN but not going to have the following things: metric system, a ban on landmines, euthanasia, gay marriage, or stem cell research.

Wanna bet? The UN Gnomes have already altered your laws. Perhaps you should read the FAQ, sparky.

To get around the un's demands, all these things are officially legal, but a private army of the President which only answers to the President of Francaden will put an end to all these.

Pity. The UN Gnomes come from a world that posesses technological advancements far beyond the level of any nation in NationStates. They have the ability to alter the fundamental laws of the universe at will, and to any degree they desire. Should they wish it, the flash point of carbon could be reduced to 5 degrees Kelvin, localised on your president's head.

Needless to say, anyone who attempts to block Resolutions from taking affect will quickly find themselves orbiting Pluto; without the benefit of a space suit.

Since the President controls the normal military and the police of Francaden he can order them not to interfere

The citizens of your nation don't need your paltry police and military. The Gnomes are more than sufficient.

Furthermore the legal age of maturity for whoring has been raised to 140.

This was addressed above. Since discrimination is illegal (by UN mandate) your president has been summarily removed from office as he is not old enough to hold that position. A UN Gnome will serve as Nominal President until someone over the age of 140 runs for President and is elected by citizens over the age of 140. We expect the Gnome will be there for quite some time.

Death to the un :upyours:

And you're in the UN... why?

I am staying in the UN but not going to have the following things: metric system, a ban on landmines, euthanasia, gay marriage, or stem cell research.


Wanna bet? The UN Gnomes have already altered your laws. Perhaps you should read the FAQ, sparky.


To get around the un's demands, all these things are officially legal, but a private army of the President which only answers to the President of Francaden will put an end to all these.

Pity. The UN Gnomes come from a world that posesses technological advancements far beyond the level of any nation in NationStates. They have the ability to alter the fundamental laws of the universe at will, and to any degree they desire. Should they wish it, the flash point of carbon could be reduced to 5 degrees Kelvin, localised on your president's head.

Needless to say, anyone who attempts to block Resolutions from taking affect will quickly find themselves orbiting Pluto; without the benefit of a space suit.



Since the President controls the normal military and the police of Francaden he can order them not to interfere

The citizens of your nation don't need your paltry police and military. The Gnomes are more than sufficient.



Furthermore the legal age of maturity for whoring has been raised to 140.


This was addressed above. Since discrimination is illegal (by UN mandate) your president has been summarily removed from office as he is not old enough to hold that position. A UN Gnome will serve as Nominal President until someone over the age of 140 runs for President and is elected by citizens over the age of 140. We expect the Gnome will be there for quite some time.



Death to the un

And you're in the UN... why?

Its posts like this that renew my faith in the moderators and my allegiance to the UN.

Well, that and force me to clean off my monitor again... :D

For the record, while I was in the UN, I received the Euthanasia issue. I don't really get it.

Its easy.

You vote the way you want, the Gnomes change it to fit UN Resolutions.

I suppose you might feel good about it for awhile....

All I can say is who are we to determine what a woman does with her body? I ask you, what is the difference between a woman going out to a bar, having a few drinks, picking up a guy she likes, taking him home and having sex and a women who goes out on the street, gets picked up, has sex and gets paid? The only difference is that one of them does it for a living and gets paid for it. What is the big deal. I sleep with women.....but im not a prostitute. Im sure many of you fine delegates here sleep with women on a regular basis too.....are you prostitutes? Tell you what Trekker, why don't we just ban sex all together since it is so dirty and wrong.

As for the rest of it - One more time, Daffy - you can not resist

Because resistance is futile....

Sorry. Couldn't help myself.

Pity. The UN Gnomes come from a world that posesses technological advancements far beyond the level of any nation in NationStates. They have the ability to alter the fundamental laws of the universe at will, and to any degree they desire. Should they wish it, the flash point of carbon could be reduced to 5 degrees Kelvin, localised on your president's head.


But they only do it as directed by the UN resolutions. They aren't vigilantes enforcing what Hack thinks is right and wrong.


This was addressed above. Since discrimination is illegal (by UN mandate) your president has been summarily removed from office as he is not old enough to hold that position. A UN Gnome will serve as Nominal President until someone over the age of 140 runs for President and is elected by citizens over the age of 140. We expect the Gnome will be there for quite some time.

Hack! WTH! Why are you godmodding? Are you that ticked off by this? Where in UN legislation does it make succession in a nation an issue for UN authorities at all? And if it did, do you honestly think it'd be the UN gnomes--who "have the ability to alter the fundamental laws of the universe at will" (hardly a desirable trait in a short term, interim leader)--tasked with filling vacant seats?


And you're in the UN... why?

Because he's allowed to be for as long as he wants--so long as he doesn't break the rules--regardless of how ludicrous an argument or statement he decries. Even the almighty UN gnomes can't stop that. Not because they don't have the power, but because they lack the jurisdiction.

Its posts like this that renew my faith in the moderators and my allegiance to the UN.

Is this because it enacts frontier justice, which you have an affinity towards? Or because it's in your favor?

You may have gained faith Vastiva, but I just lost it. Entirely.

*shakes head shamefully*

Well thank God i'm not a protestant or I would care about what Israel had to say.
I would have thought you and Green Israel natural allies, being that you're both socialist theocrats.

This is a game about building alliances - you shouldn't be slagging off people unless you're sure you'll never want their help.

Hack! WTH! Why are you godmodding? Are you that ticked off by this? Where in UN legislation does it make succession in a nation an issue for UN authorities at all? And if it did, do you honestly think it'd be the UN gnomes--who "have the ability to alter the fundamental laws of the universe at will" (hardly a desirable trait in a short term, interim leader)--tasked with filling vacant seats?

You may have gained faith Vastiva, but I just lost it. Entirely.

*shakes head shamefully*
You're just upset because your repeal didn't last nearly as long as you hoped.

Hack doesn't appear to have done anything to francaphenfen; he was just kidding.

You need to work on that sense of humor thing.

You're just upset because your repeal didn't last nearly as long as you hoped.

No, actually I'm not. First, you have no idea how long "I hoped my repeal would last", if I even hoped it would last. Second, my repeal hasn't ceased to "last"; it will continue ot keep the original "legalize prostitution" from being enforced for as long as nationstates is active, unless the game mechanics change and you can repeal a repeal.

I'm not happy here because I think Hack's overstepping his mantle as moderator.

As for the rest of it - One more time, Daffy - you can not resist the implementation of UN Resolutions in your nation. You can make laws that go around it, you can make laws that further your acceptance, or you can make rants like the one you did and look what you look like now.


Or, you can have the laws of your country state prostitution is legal, but have secret police break into suspected prostitutes houses in the middle of the night and shoot them.

The UN can change the laws on the books, sure, but there are pleanty of real-world nations where "the laws on the books" have little to do with what you can actually get away with doing.

Wanna bet? The UN Gnomes have already altered your laws. Perhaps you should read the FAQ, sparky.


I agree with the Chipmunks.

I must have sent out between 100 and 200 telegrams in campaigning for Groot Gouda's resolution (and I think telegramming means much more than just posting on this forum), so naturally I think a thread where somebody claims they are not going to comply with a UN resolution that I was in favour of would rub me in the wrong way.

However ...

Game and Forum moderators shouldn't begin to take sides on what is ultimately a roleplayed statement (even an incredibly lame one like we have with the kid flipping the bird off).

Specifically, the UN FAQ doesn't say that the UN Gnomes rewrite our laws. I believe the portion that you and others frequently are quoting might be:

The UN is your chance to mold the rest of the world to your vision, by voting for resolutions you like and scuttling the rest. However, it's a double-edged sword, because your nation will also be affected by any resolutions that pass. (You can't just obey the resolutions you like and ignore the rest, like real nations do.)

The reason I think the Hack crossed a line here (which happens) is that the concept behind a compliance ministry to some players is that when a UN resolution is adopted, that our nations make domestic changes. Basically that we rewrite our own laws and move politically or socially in a direction of a UN resolution.

Unlike the daily issues, where our actual game tech is changed by our choice of an issue, the only thing that changes when a UN resolution passes is our nation's game stats. In fact, there are a number of daily issues that still pop up that are in conflict with UN resolutions. And yet UN members have the ability to "violate" the spirit of an existing UN resolution by picking a daily issue contrary to existing UN resolutions.

With that in mind, I'd argue that PLAYERS have the ability to creatively (or in this case) not so creatively roleplay. If a player is going to come here and complain about the UN, the moderators should not hint that their capacity / job as a moderator overrides annother players roleplay, so long as that player is following the main NationStates forum guidelines:

Any content that is:

- obscene
- illegal
- threatening
- malicious
- defamatory
- spam

This applies to your nation's name, motto, and other customizable fields, any messages you write, images you post, or any other content you upload or link to NationStates. If you do, your nation will be deleted. See the site's Terms & Conditions for details.


The minute moderators start mandating and interfering with bad roleplay (that
still complies with the above), they really are opening the door to policing other roleplay. I think that is a serious mistake and will ruin the game ... and I'll repeat that in this case I was one of the nations that actively telegrammed and campaigned for this resolution. Naturally I think the guy who is claiming he won't legalize it is wrong ... I just think players should respond to this by cutting off ties from the guy (besides, frequently these statements come from players whom are feed up with the UN and on their way out already).

I agree with the Chipmunks.

I must have sent out between 100 and 200 telegrams in campaigning for Groot Gouda's resolution (and I think telegramming means much more than just posting on this forum), so naturally I think a thread where somebody claims they are not going to comply with a UN resolution that I was in favour of would rub me in the wrong way.

However ...

Game and Forum moderators shouldn't begin to take sides on what is ultimately a roleplayed statement (even an incredibly lame one like we have with the kid flipping the bird off).

The minute moderators start mandating and interfering with bad roleplay (that
still complies with the above), they really are opening the door to policing other roleplay. I think that is a serious mistake and will ruin the game ... and I'll repeat that in this case I was one of the nations that actively telegrammed and campaigned for this resolution. Naturally I think the guy who is claiming he won't legalize it is wrong ... I just think players should respond to this by cutting off ties from the guy (besides, frequently these statements come from players whom are feed up with the UN and on their way out already).
Moderators are people too.
You seem to think that we as players should be able to joke around once in a while, but that moderators shouldn't... shouldn't do it? shouldn't be allowed to do it? I disagree.

The kid was directly flipping off hack. Hack had every right to respond.

It would have been wrong for hack to actually follow up on the post and change the kid's nation description or something, but a verbal smackdown is both appropriate and highly entertaining.

Moderators are people too.

I know. And I still completely respect Hack for the amount of work he does. But I think as people, not gawds, that we should be free to point out when we think they've gone too far.

In particular, the comment about "read the UN FAQ" is out of line.


You seem to think that we as players should be able to joke around once in a while, but that moderators shouldn't... shouldn't do it? shouldn't be allowed to do it? I disagree.

The kid was directly flipping off hack. Hack had every right to respond.

It would have been wrong for hack to actually follow up on the post and change the kid's nation description or something, but a verbal smackdown is both appropriate and highly entertaining.

I don't think the kid (and I agree it was likely a kid who started this) even knew who Hack was. I don't think he was flipping off Hack, but just the UN in general. A stupid thing to do in the UN forum, and it totally lowered my opinion of the kid ... but there is a reason they've not removed that silly smilie.

I think Hack threatening to nuke the kid is fine, we all know he isn't going to do it for somebody tossing a middle finger in the air. But I do object to the idea that the mods will come in and police even a very poor case of roleplaying. Either the kid was out of line and violated a forum rule or just plain silly.

The danger in being a moderator is in saying something and not having other players assume it to be a new "rule". For example, if Cog wanted to tease or poke back at a player, he would have been very careful to point out what are his statements as a moderator and what he is saying as just another player.

The question is, does Hack really feel that players can't roleplay non-faithful compliance with a UN resolution or two? It happens in the real world, and it even happens via differences in UN resolutions and daily issues in this game. Can we be ejected from the game if we choose a daily issue that is contrary to an existing UN resolution? Of course not.

Alright. I'll go along with it was unfortunate wording. And you're right, it was Vastiva started talking about the Gnomes, not francadeng.

So, you going to report Hack in the Moderation forum?

It's those illegal brothels, because you made it so hard to do... ah well, Darwin was right.
What illegal brothels? I refer you to this quote taken straight from my nation's page, "Crime is totally unknown, thanks to the all-pervasive police force and progressive social policies in education and welfare."

Alright. I'll go along with it was unfortunate wording.

So, you going to report Hack in the Moderation forum?

No way! :) There is nothing to "report".

As you said, moderators are people. It was very clear that nobody is gonna get nuked or their game text changed. That much was just teasing.

Besides, the kid was giving the finger to all of us really, and was moderately annoying. There are a number of Mikitivity Psi-Ops agents whom would love to deal with the kid's government as well. Somebody had to do something to discourage a potential landslide of similar remarks.

What illegal brothels? I refer you to this quote taken straight from my nation's page, "Crime is totally unknown, thanks to the all-pervasive police force and progressive social policies in education and welfare."
Right. You don't admit it exists, therefore...

No way! :) There is nothing to "report".

As you said, moderators are people. It was very clear that nobody is gonna get nuked or their game text changed. That much was just teasing.

Besides, the kid was giving the finger to all of us really, and was moderately annoying. There are a number of Mikitivity Psi-Ops agents whom would love to deal with the kid's government as well. Somebody had to do something to discourage a potential landslide of similar remarks.
At first I thought it would be pretty funny to report a moderator in the moderation forum.

Then I went over there and read through some of the disputes they get sucked into.

At first I thought it would be pretty funny to report a moderator in the moderation forum.

Then I went over there and read through some of the disputes they get sucked into.

Exactly! :(

The moderation forum often is where people go when they are angry or unhappy. I've done it myself over other things, but I'm not upset at all here. The moderators have enough work already.

I'm only really talking about one very little part of something here: the reference to the UN FAQ as if it implied that we can't roleplay how we comply. This is a minor quibble on my part. All that other stuff I'm totally fine with. My apologies to Hack and everybody else if I wasn't clear on that.

(Stepping out of character) This is only a game. The resolutions that are made are not actual laws, and as people before me have said do not actually change the game as you get issues which allow you to violate un resolutions. Me playing as the rogue leader shouldn't make some of you people actually mad. Then again maybe you are the type of people who play a fps and cuss at the other players when you get shot. What you should do is just pretend to sever ties with my nation. It's not that hard. I roleplayed that i banned tourists from nations i didn't like. Just remember this is a game, we get to play the part we want. We can be benevolent leaders who feed everyone and grants free healthcare and schooling, or we can play the corrupt dictator that puts everyone in the military. That is the beauty of this game, we get to "play". We are not here trying to create the perfect world, we are here to have fun. :)

But they only do it as directed by the UN resolutions. They aren't vigilantes enforcing what Hack thinks is right and wrong.



Hack! WTH! Why are you godmodding? Are you that ticked off by this? Where in UN legislation does it make succession in a nation an issue for UN authorities at all? And if it did, do you honestly think it'd be the UN gnomes--who "have the ability to alter the fundamental laws of the universe at will" (hardly a desirable trait in a short term, interim leader)--tasked with filling vacant seats?



Because he's allowed to be for as long as he wants--so long as he doesn't break the rules--regardless of how ludicrous an argument or statement he decries. Even the almighty UN gnomes can't stop that. Not because they don't have the power, but because they lack the jurisdiction.



Is this because it enacts frontier justice, which you have an affinity towards? Or because it's in your favor?

You may have gained faith Vastiva, but I just lost it. Entirely.

*shakes head shamefully*


He's a mod! In fact, isn't he THE mod? *whispers* It's dangerous to oppose the mods.

Besides, with the Gnomes running around, I wouldn't want a mod on your tail.

(Stepping out of character) This is only a game. The resolutions that are made are not actual laws, and as people before me have said do not actually change the game as you get issues which allow you to violate un resolutions. Me playing as the rogue leader shouldn't make some of you people actually mad. Then again maybe you are the type of people who play a fps and cuss at the other players when you get shot. What you should do is just pretend to sever ties with my nation. It's not that hard. I roleplayed that i banned tourists from nations i didn't like. Just remember this is a game, we get to play the part we want. We can be benevolent leaders who feed everyone and grants free healthcare and schooling, or we can play the corrupt dictator that puts everyone in the military. That is the beauty of this game, we get to "play". We are not here trying to create the perfect world, we are here to have fun. :)
Glad I have your permission.

I'm going to roleplay that I'm a militaristic general who is seriously considering forming a vigilante group aimed at nuking all those who refuse to comply with UN resolutions.

Ok, not really. But I hope you get my point. Everyone here knows that this is a game, and part of that game depends on people following the rules. Why should you claiming that you will defy the UN (breaking game rules) not tick people off who are happy with the game working as it was intended?

And it would tick in-character UN members off that a UN member is being a rouge and not playing to the UN rules. Er.. I mean 'making laws to'.

(Stepping out of character) This is only a game. The resolutions that are made are not actual laws, and as people before me have said do not actually change the game as you get issues which allow you to violate un resolutions. Me playing as the rogue leader shouldn't make some of you people actually mad.

With only a few historical exceptions, it really is rare in modern history for a national leader to flip the bird to the world. While it might seem like fun and realistic "roleplaying", it usually is a last ditch effort that comes seconds for a bit o' "Shock and Awe" to be followed by eventual suicide by gun to the head (I'm thinking of a certain German guy here) or footage of one nasty looking beard and tell tale signs of a poor diet (here I'm thinking of another dude we all should know).

It is very hard to tell when a __person__ is trying to roleplay being a nasty and mean nation, when they come in from literally NO-WHERE and essentially start issuing threats like "Death to the UN".

My point is, if you want to pretend that what you were doing had basis in reality and if you want others to appreciate and consider it good roleplay, invest a few weeks talking about your nation and slowly story tell -- talk about the agression of other nations, let it escalate. What you did came out of no-where.

While I'll defend any players __right__ to tell me to "Frak-Off" (gotta love Battlestar Galactica for that one), I also will in the same breath point out that such roleplayed statements actually mean something if they come from somebody who doesn't have the "here today, gone tomorrow" air about them.

For example, when Sophista wanted to roll play non-compliance of the "Law of the Sea" resolution months ago, many long standing UN supporters (like myself) found Sophista's roleplay not only realistic, but compeling enough to participate in a mock conflict (granted it was a dodgeball match, but still ... it was fun for a few of the players involved -- I personally didn't care for it, because I was having people type cast my character, so I bowed out and divorced myself from interacting with those nations).

When in doubt if others will recognize something you consider quality roleplay ... put an OOC remark at the end explaining it as such. Why do this? Bottom line, there are honestly not that many experienced roleplayers in this particular forum, and thus we have a mix of roleplay and non-roleplay here.

This entire post is entirely OOC:

With only a few historical exceptions, it really is rare in modern history for a national leader to flip the bird to the world. While it might seem like fun and realistic "roleplaying", it usually is a last ditch effort that comes seconds for a bit o' "Shock and Awe" to be followed by eventual suicide by gun to the head (I'm thinking of a certain German guy here) or footage of one nasty looking beard and tell tale signs of a poor diet (here I'm thinking of another dude we all should know).It's also rare to do it in that language. Seriously everybody, read diplomatic statements. To accuse a nation of being "somewhat economical with the truth" is about as extreme an insult as you'll find, unless you're about to go to war with a country.

It is very hard to tell when a __person__ is trying to roleplay being a nasty and mean nation, when they come in from literally NO-WHERE and essentially start issuing threats like "Death to the UN".

My point is, if you want to pretend that what you were doing had basis in reality and if you want others to appreciate and consider it good roleplay, invest a few weeks talking about your nation and slowly story tell -- talk about the agression of other nations, let it escalate. What you did came out of no-where.Even if you do that don't hold out much hope. Sorry if I sound cynical but I've seen far too many experienced players do stuff like a) attempt to use real world examples and b) assume that everyone has the same beliefs as their nation to be anything but. (The second particuarly happens with controversial topics like gay marriage. Role Playing. Playing a role. The clues in the name. That's a general rant, by the way. It's not something I've ever seen you specifically do).

When in doubt if others will recognize something you consider quality roleplay ... put an OOC remark at the end explaining it as such. Why do this? Bottom line, there are honestly not that many experienced roleplayers in this particular forum, and thus we have a mix of roleplay and non-roleplay here.
At the same time, I have repeatedly explained that I am only OOC when I specifically say so. Do I really have to put a disclaimer at the bottom of each post? My sig should show I'm RPing if nothing else. I don't see why we should assume the default is to not RP unless stated otherwise. It seems far more sensible to assume the opposite.

The thing about this is, while a nation can roleplay non-compliance with UN resolutions, the UN cannot kick a nation out of the UN for role-play based activity, only for directly disobeying game rules.

The UN has no right of reply here, so any nation can declare non-compliance with any resolution, and not face eviction from the UN. Hence why I feel that the comments by Trekkers and Francaden were in bad taste. Since Hack was just coming in to remind everybody of the fact that there isn't a real in-game non-compliance ability, and didn't threaten to delete anyone, I think he was perfectly justified.

Personally, I don't think that this type of roleplay is really going to be effective until the UN is able to kick people out for their roleplay activities related to the UN and it's resolutions (not suggesting that that should be the case, just throwing out ideas here).

Also...

I'm going to roleplay that I'm a militaristic general who is seriously considering forming a vigilante group aimed at nuking all those who refuse to comply with UN resolutions.

I really like this idea. It sounds like a good idea for a region, methinks. A group of nations who take on the unofficial role of the UN's enforcement army.

My current region is small and somewhat dead in the water. Perhaps I should consider this idea....

I really like this idea. It sounds like a good idea for a region, methinks. A group of nations who take on the unofficial role of the UN's enforcement army.

My current region is small and somewhat dead in the water. Perhaps I should consider this idea....
(Very OOC) If you're interested in terrorist or vigilante roleplay, check out the International Incidents Forum. If you're still interested, TG me and maybe we could set something up. (Of course I would create another nation for this, as the army would probably have to violate several UN resolutions to be able to effectively enforce others.)

At the same time, I have repeatedly explained that I am only OOC when I specifically say so. Do I really have to put a disclaimer at the bottom of each post? My sig should show I'm RPing if nothing else. I don't see why we should assume the default is to not RP unless stated otherwise. It seems far more sensible to assume the opposite.

Moving away from the keyboard ... if you find yourself telling a joke at a party and people seem to need you to explain what it is you've said and why it is funny, chances are you totally blew it.

I think a skilled roleplayer will gauge a thread and manage to cry, "Death to the UN" in such a way that the OOC / IC won't be needed. This particular thread obviously wasn't the case, because people felt the need to bring out their favorite beating stick, "Add another newbie to the list of nations that hasn't read the FAQ."

If it was a clear cut case of creative roleplay a few experienced players and a mod wouldn't have relied on that debate crutch. They did, and I too felt that the kid in question wasn't roleplaying, but just another "Fook you all!" posters. We see new nations doing this in response to the passage of virtually every resolution.

(And in this case Groot Gouda shared a few of the telegrams he was sent ... some people need to step back for a minute on some of those!)



The UN has no right of reply here, so any nation can declare non-compliance with any resolution, and not face eviction from the UN. Hence why I feel that the comments by Trekkers and Francaden were in bad taste. Since Hack was just coming in to remind everybody of the fact that there isn't a real in-game non-compliance ability, and didn't threaten to delete anyone, I think he was perfectly justified.

Personally, I don't think that this type of roleplay is really going to be effective until the UN is able to kick people out for their roleplay activities related to the UN and it's resolutions (not suggesting that that should be the case, just throwing out ideas here).

I don't. I think a moderator coming in and even *implying* that the UN FAQ (a document that was put together rather quickly and is not really updated nearly as frequently as the UN rules are) means that a group (puppet) called the UN Gnomes actually write our domestic laws takes away a bit from players that like to roleplay. In particular it has a direct impact on players that love to find loopholes and run with them -- both in the original resolution and how their nation implements those laws.

Anybody can find loopholes. In fact, you can learn a lot by proving to yourself how easy it is to do. But a major challenge can actually be for nations that wish to be compliant to work recently adopted resolutions into the body of their own roleplayed laws.

That said, I do agree with your point that there should be a penalty for continued non-compliance to UN resolutions. Long ago I suggested that in NS2 that the compliance ministry would be better treated like daily issues. After the passage of a resolution countries would be given a few choices:

Do you wish to fully comply with Resolution #91?
Do you wish to partially comply with Resolution #91?
Do you wish to not comply with Resolution #91?

The answer then determines not only the degree to which a nation's stats change, but also generates a new report that can be viewed at any time: UN Compliance Rating. If a nation's UN Compliance Rating hits some low (negative) threshold, that nation is first warned. A few resolutions dropping below that level would result in increased domestic unrest: crime rates go up, productivity goes down, etc. The nation could remain in the UN, but the rest of their game stats would go down until they've reached "Good Standing" with the UN.

This would take a modest amount of time to come up with a series of logic, but a huge amount of programming time. But it would be a great compromise for UN debates. There are *believe it or not* a few UN resolutions I'd only partially comply with.

I also think that full compliance should *remove* a negative rating. That could be the only boon of full compliance, but it would give players a bit more control over UN resolutions and would remarkably make for one last other interesting stat ... in the UN archive, a compliance rating could be saved and reported. It would be really interesting to see how many resolutions would break 50% compliance. :)

(Very OOC) If you're interested in terrorist or vigilante roleplay, check out the International Incidents Forum. If you're still interested, TG me and maybe we could set something up. (Of course I would create another nation for this, as the army would probably have to violate several UN resolutions to be able to effectively enforce others.)

Keep in mind that "terrorist or vigilante" is all in the eyes of the beholder. I think that an army of sorts (not officially run by the UN of course, since that would violate game mechanics rules) enforcing UN resolutions among the UN member nations is an excellent idea, or at the very least would be a good excuse to roleplay. Theoretically, one could do so without violating any UN rules.

Keep in mind that "terrorist or vigilante" is all in the eyes of the beholder. I think that an army of sorts (not officially run by the UN of course, since that would violate game mechanics rules) enforcing UN resolutions among the UN member nations is an excellent idea, or at the very least would be a good excuse to roleplay. Theoretically, one could do so without violating any UN rules.
Maybe true, but I promised myself long ago that if I ever were to War RP it would be with a different country. I'm too protective of my Nargopians to let them get hurt. :(

That said, I do agree with your point that there should be a penalty for continued non-compliance to UN resolutions. Long ago I suggested that in NS2 that the compliance ministry would be better treated like daily issues. After the passage of a resolution countries would be given a few choices:

Do you wish to fully comply with Resolution #91?
Do you wish to partially comply with Resolution #91?
Do you wish to not comply with Resolution #91?

The answer then determines not only the degree to which a nation's stats change, but also generates a new report that can be viewed at any time: UN Compliance Rating. If a nation's UN Compliance Rating hits some low (negative) threshold, that nation is first warned. A few resolutions dropping below that level would result in increased domestic unrest: crime rates go up, productivity goes down, etc. The nation could remain in the UN, but the rest of their game stats would go down until they've reached "Good Standing" with the UN.

That's genius. You should be a Mod for NS2.

I also think that Hack overstepped his bounds here. If he wishes to debate legislation, he should use a different nation without Mod privileges.

That's genius. You should be a Mod for NS2.

I also think that Hack overstepped his bounds here. If he wishes to debate legislation, he should use a different nation without Mod privileges.

I agree with that, it's an excellent idea. Although I'd like to selfishly take credit for the original idea a few posts ago. As for Hack, we'll have to agree to disagree with this.

Anyway Nargopia, would you like to actually have a discusion on the possibility of a UN enforcement region (with new nations of course)? My current region is completely RP free, and I'm sick of the losers there.

United Freedoms, I would. I suggest, however, that we continue this conversation via telegrams. Further conversation will probably be highly classified. ;)

Shame on you all. Is it not basic decency to not drag a person's tread off topic? You shuld all appologize to trekkers at once! Also, who cares if Hack "oversteped his bounds" it is a game! This whole incident seems to be moving in circles. Anyway im not sure if trekkers actually cares, but get out of his/her thread!!!!

Shame on you all. Is it not basic decency to not drag a person's tread off topic? You shuld all appologize to trekkers at once! Also, who cares if Hack "oversteped his bounds" it is a game! This whole incident seems to be moving in circles. Anyway im not sure if trekkers actually cares, but get out of his/her thread!!!!

I disagree. The very subject of discussion is, "Can a nation choose to not comply with individual UN resolutions?"

If the answer is no, then Trekker's statement is out of order. If it is yes, then we can actually then discuss the wisdom of such a statement.

The minute this became not just about Trekker's view, but the UN's was about the time that some kid said, "Death to the UN" while waving his middle finger.

Shame on you all. Is it not basic decency to not drag a person's tread off topic? You shuld all appologize to trekkers at once! Also, who cares if Hack "oversteped his bounds" it is a game! This whole incident seems to be moving in circles. Anyway im not sure if trekkers actually cares, but get out of his/her thread!!!!
Quiet you. Trekkers hasn't made a comment since starting the thread; in addition, the topic began to stray after about 10 replies. Technically, though, we're still on the topic of obeying UN Resolutons.

As for this being a game, I assume you wouldn't be saying the same thing if I "overstepped my bounds" in the end zone to make the winning TD during the anticipated Nargopia-The Left Foot football game. What if the referee caught one of my passes and ran it in for the 2-point conversion? That wouldn't be fair, would it, an authority taking sides? "But it's just a game!!"

(OOC) Some of us take this game seriously. Me, I do it because I can't find intelligent debate or RP anywhere else. Others have their own reasons. The point is, the integrity of the game must be preserved for it to be fun.

Alot of you people in here seem pretty arrogant, with your condescending speech and elitist attitudes. Why does my roleplaying of noncompliance hurt your feelings so much? Is abortion and whoring something you feel so passionately about that you will lose your heads about someone speaking against them? I will be on these boards for some time now. You people will just have to get used to it, and every resolution that intrudes on my nation's rights will be fought against.

Alot of you people in here seem pretty arrogant, with your condescending speech and elitist attitudes. Why does my roleplaying of noncompliance hurt your feelings so much? Is abortion and whoring something you feel so passionately about that you will lose your heads about someone speaking against them? I will be on these boards for some time now. You people will just have to get used to it, and every resolution that intrudes on my nation's rights will be fought against.
It's not a question of our beliefs; it's a matter of you violating game rules.

Or, you can have the laws of your country state prostitution is legal, but have secret police break into suspected prostitutes houses in the middle of the night and shoot them.

The UN can change the laws on the books, sure, but there are pleanty of real-world nations where "the laws on the books" have little to do with what you can actually get away with doing.

OOC:
Read my lips - this is NOT real life. Its a game. And here, the UN Gnomes have uberpower.

Alot of you people in here seem pretty arrogant, with your condescending speech and elitist attitudes. Why does my roleplaying of noncompliance hurt your feelings so much? Is abortion and whoring something you feel so passionately about that you will lose your heads about someone speaking against them? I will be on these boards for some time now. You people will just have to get used to it, and every resolution that intrudes on my nation's rights will be fought against.

OOC: That's nice. You'll lose each and every time, and eventually everyone will get tired of laughing at your shenanigans and head towards the "oh. Him. Ignore this, it'll be pointless."

Hack's smackdown of you - which I consider high comedy with a lesson - was a game lesson. You can choose to ignore it if you wish. Personally, I'm curious how your 141 year old ruler is going to get his country out of the pit he just put it in, or if he will even try. My bet is a "didn't happen" will occur as, most likely, the whole whine was just that - a whine, not an RP, not an attempt to do something creative. It was just a "I DOAN WANNA CAN'T MAKE ME! MOMMIE THEY'RE MAKING ME PLAY BY DA ROOLS!"

And this in large part is why I laughed my monitor into a bath - you were humorously reminded there are powers in this game bigger then you. Then you were lampooned and hoisted by your own petard - it was with your own law about maturity you screwed your own government.

This is why my respect went up - you were made to see the "facts of life" as you had created them to be. Don't like it? Realize you're acting like a fool, and move on.

The all powerful "gnomes" who's word means more why? Because they have a title? I don't recognize this title, The rules say nothing about this or how they will enforce un resolutions. But you Vastiva you really are getting out of place. As of this moment your nation no longer exists in Francaden's eyes. Our leader is not some old guy. The gnomes have no powere in our land.


PS. the gnomes claim super powers but i'm roleplaying that God won't let them ;)

Moving away from the keyboard ... if you find yourself telling a joke at a party and people seem to need you to explain what it is you've said and why it is funny, chances are you totally blew it.

I think a skilled roleplayer will gauge a thread and manage to cry, "Death to the UN" in such a way that the OOC / IC won't be needed. This particular thread obviously wasn't the case, because people felt the need to bring out their favorite beating stick, "Add another newbie to the list of nations that hasn't read the FAQ."

If it was a clear cut case of creative roleplay a few experienced players and a mod wouldn't have relied on that debate crutch. They did, and I too felt that the kid in question wasn't roleplaying, but just another "Fook you all!" posters. We see new nations doing this in response to the passage of virtually every resolution.

Pish. I understood it as RPing. But then, I got severely reprimanded and my nation got deleted the first time I tried RPing aggro here and somebody misunderstood.


That said, I do agree with your point that there should be a penalty for continued non-compliance to UN resolutions. Long ago I suggested that in NS2 that the compliance ministry would be better treated like daily issues. After the passage of a resolution countries would be given a few choices:

Do you wish to fully comply with Resolution #91?
Do you wish to partially comply with Resolution #91?
Do you wish to not comply with Resolution #91?

The answer then determines not only the degree to which a nation's stats change, but also generates a new report that can be viewed at any time: UN Compliance Rating. If a nation's UN Compliance Rating hits some low (negative) threshold, that nation is first warned. A few resolutions dropping below that level would result in increased domestic unrest: crime rates go up, productivity goes down, etc. The nation could remain in the UN, but the rest of their game stats would go down until they've reached "Good Standing" with the UN.

This would take a modest amount of time to come up with a series of logic, but a huge amount of programming time. But it would be a great compromise for UN debates. There are *believe it or not* a few UN resolutions I'd only partially comply with.

I also think that full compliance should *remove* a negative rating. That could be the only boon of full compliance, but it would give players a bit more control over UN resolutions and would remarkably make for one last other interesting stat ... in the UN archive, a compliance rating could be saved and reported. It would be really interesting to see how many resolutions would break 50% compliance. :)
That's a brilliant idea. My professional estimate is that it shouldn't require all that much programming time, either. Just make the gnomes decide up front the hidden effects of full, partial, and non compliance with the resolution.

I think non-compliance should have some effect on game stats too.

The all powerful "gnomes" who's word means more why? Because they have a title? I don't recognize this title, The rules say nothing about this or how they will enforce un resolutions. But you Vastiva you really are getting out of place. As of this moment your nation no longer exists in Francaden's eyes. Our leader is not some old guy. The gnomes have no powere in our land.


PS. the gnomes claim super powers but i'm roleplaying that God won't let them ;)
the gnomes are the automatic adjustment to your game stats when a resolution passes.

but they're also a mod and a very powerful nationstate in this game who could vaporize your country on a whim. stop egging him on.

Alot of you people in here seem pretty arrogant, with your condescending speech and elitist attitudes. Why does my roleplaying of noncompliance hurt your feelings so much? Is abortion and whoring something you feel so passionately about that you will lose your heads about someone speaking against them? I will be on these boards for some time now. You people will just have to get used to it, and every resolution that intrudes on my nation's rights will be fought against.
I feel pretty passionate about prostitution, yes.
But that's not why I'm condescending toward you; I'm condescending toward you because I'm better than you.

OOC: i thought you were doing a good job of RP'ing an evil psycho dictator who'd gone off the deep end and started killing his own populace, last time I checked in on this thread. But you can't expect to throw me a straight line like that and have me not use it.

I feel pretty passionate about prostitution, yes.
But that's not why I'm condescending toward you; I'm condescending toward you because I'm better than you.
Asshelmetta, you inspire me to new levels of being an ass. That was the greatest kill-shot I've seen since Wimbledon.

At the same time, I have repeatedly explained that I am only OOC when I specifically say so. Do I really have to put a disclaimer at the bottom of each post? My sig should show I'm RPing if nothing else. I don't see why we should assume the default is to not RP unless stated otherwise. It seems far more sensible to assume the opposite.
When most of the thread is about game mechanics, it is reasonable to question what parts of a post are IC and OOC.

Asshelmetta, you inspire me to new levels of being an ass. That was the greatest kill-shot I've seen since Wimbledon.
i would give a little speech now, but i'm laughing too hard to breathe.

The all powerful "gnomes" who's word means more why? Because they have a title? I don't recognize this title, The rules say nothing about this or how they will enforce un resolutions. But you Vastiva you really are getting out of place. As of this moment your nation no longer exists in Francaden's eyes. Our leader is not some old guy. The gnomes have no powere in our land.

PS. the gnomes claim super powers but i'm roleplaying that God won't let them ;)

I am so gonna laugh my ass off when the mods whack you with the silly stick again.

Pish. I understood it as RPing. But then, I got severely reprimanded and my nation got deleted the first time I tried RPing aggro here and somebody misunderstood.

I honestly thought he was some get with an _extreme_ opinion to air, but no way to express other a Fook you all post. :/


That's a brilliant idea. My professional estimate is that it shouldn't require all that much programming time, either. Just make the gnomes decide up front the hidden effects of full, partial, and non compliance with the resolution.

I think non-compliance should have some effect on game stats too.

Hack is just a game mod, there are others beyond him that will be making NS2 ... but the gnomes obviously know much more about what happens behind the currents than anybody else in this thread. :)

So would non-compliance be in the same direction or opposite: "We will not comply with your stinking environmental resolution!" Does the population still nudge that way despite what their leaders may say, or do they become worse off in the eyes of the world?

I think non-compliance makes things worse.
If you say you won't comply with the NS HIV AIDS Act (the one that got me all blowed up) and the gnomes have decided that the resolution is actually effective in lowering HIV transmission rates, non-compliance should mean a raging AIDS epidemic in your country, lower birth rates, and your economy should suffer because international trade will drop off as other nations quarantine you and more and more of your resources are devoted to treatment of dying AIDS patients.

Non-compliance should pretty much always have a negative impact on trade.

(Stepping out of character) This is only a game. The resolutions that are made are not actual laws, and as people before me have said do not actually change the game as you get issues which allow you to violate un resolutions. Me playing as the rogue leader shouldn't make some of you people actually mad. Then again maybe you are the type of people who play a fps and cuss at the other players when you get shot. What you should do is just pretend to sever ties with my nation. It's not that hard. I roleplayed that i banned tourists from nations i didn't like. Just remember this is a game, we get to play the part we want. We can be benevolent leaders who feed everyone and grants free healthcare and schooling, or we can play the corrupt dictator that puts everyone in the military. That is the beauty of this game, we get to "play". We are not here trying to create the perfect world, we are here to have fun. :)

I'm sorry, but this part of a quote by you in the other thread is definetly not role playing...

Resubmitted: The Sex Industry Worker Act (Free Trade proposal) thread, post 439.
So the person who proposed the whoring resolution was an australian. That explains why it was passed, you australians and brits are immoral people.

That flame/troll was directed at me as a person, and at the Australian and British people as a whole, well and truly out of character, and outside the game, so please excuse me if I take your explaination with the grain of salt it deserves.

That flame/troll was directed at me as a person, and at the Australian and British people as a whole, well and truly out of character, and outside the game, so please excuse me if I take your explaination with the grain of salt it deserves.
Did you take the post and the grain of salt to the Mods? I hear they're running low on salt this time of year, so that would probably help your cause.

(But seriously though, that kind of post by him is unacceptable. I encourage you to report it.)

Did you take the post and the grain of salt to the Mods? I hear they're running low on salt this time of year, so that would probably help your cause.

(But seriously though, that kind of post by him is unacceptable. I encourage you to report it.)

I did'nt know our mods were salt vampires, well you learn something new every day, as the old wives say :D:D.

Seriously though, that was posted yesterday, and I think its a little too late to report it now, and I don't want to be seen as one of those people who go running to the mods everytime they think someone is flameing them :).

I only posted that to show him/her that I did'nt buy the "I was only role playing excuse", but thank you for the advice :).

I see that this thread has its own clique. Anything I say will be screwed around to make me look bad, and as you are all buddies, you'll laugh and support eachother so i'm just going to end it all with this :upyours: Tiocfadh ar la!

I see that this thread has its own clique. Anything I say will be screwed around to make me look bad, and as you are all buddies, you'll laugh and support eachother so i'm just going to end it all with this :upyours: Tiocfadh ar la!
Ok guys, now we have to do something to make this perfectly innocent post look bad!

I did'nt know our mods were salt vampires, well you learn something new every day, as the old wives say :D:D.

Seriously though, that was posted yesterday, and I think its a little too late to report it now, and I don't want to be seen as one of those people who go running to the mods everytime they think someone is flameing them :).

I only posted that to show him/her that I did'nt buy the "I was only role playing excuse", but thank you for the advice :).

You can still report it. There's no time limit. Besides, you don't need to take it from anyone.

Francaden: You really need to simmer down. You do realize that by snapping back you're only making your situation worse, right?

Good Lord, people, it was a joke.

The fact still remains that there is a difference between finding loopholes (fine), and non-compliance. Non-complaince doesn't happen.

I think non-compliance makes things worse.
If you say you won't comply with the NS HIV AIDS Act (the one that got me all blowed up) and the gnomes have decided that the resolution is actually effective in lowering HIV transmission rates, non-compliance should mean a raging AIDS epidemic in your country, lower birth rates, and your economy should suffer because international trade will drop off as other nations quarantine you and more and more of your resources are devoted to treatment of dying AIDS patients.

Non-compliance should pretty much always have a negative impact on trade.

Methinks non-compliance should invert the bonuses, cummulatively.

Good Lord, people, it was a joke.

The fact still remains that there is a difference between finding loopholes (fine), and non-compliance. Non-complaince doesn't happen.

We are clear on the other bit, but this second response here is exactly what we are talking about. How is no non-compliance not game enforced restrictions on roleplaying?

Here I'll point to Sophista, which was an active member in good standing of the UN for months, one day decided that they'd announce that their nation would not abide by the Law of the Sea. The response wasn't for a few kiddos to say, "Add another player that hasn't read the UN FAQ", but for other seasoned roleplayers: Frisbeeteria and Hot Rodia -- sp? (or one of his puppets) to roleplay what effective was a multinational effort to persuade Sophista back into compliance. We'd have to ask the players involved where that went ... but I actually think that the game itself, but allowing us to choose daily issues that contradict UN resolutions shows that governments may choose to not comply with UN resolutions.

We are clear on the other bit, but this second response here is exactly what we are talking about. How is no non-compliance not game enforced restrictions on roleplaying?

Here I'll point to Sophista, which was an active member in good standing of the UN for months, one day decided that they'd announce that their nation would not abide by the Law of the Sea. The response wasn't for a few kiddos to say, "Add another player that hasn't read the UN FAQ", but for other seasoned roleplayers: Frisbeeteria and Hot Rodia -- sp? (or one of his puppets) to roleplay what effective was a multinational effort to persuade Sophista back into compliance. We'd have to ask the players involved where that went ... but I actually think that the game itself, but allowing us to choose daily issues that contradict UN resolutions shows that governments may choose to not comply with UN resolutions.

It was me! This puppet! And it's spelled HotRodia. No biggie, though.

I would also like to elaborate on this point. My understanding is that UN regulations, in terms of actual policies, are only roleplay guidelines. Unless I'm mistaken, the nations stats change in particular areas if you're in the UN when a resolution passes, but there is no stat that says "Prostitution Legal". Correct me if I'm wrong on that.

So if UN policy declarations are solely roleplay items, then nations can post roleplays that violate those if they really want to, but they are likely to get the sort of response that the author of this thread got. My personal sense of roleplay etiquette prevents me from roleplaying outright defiance, but I have no problem with others, who may have a different sense of roleplay etiquette, doing so.

heeheehee

I love you all for giving me somewhere to waste my time like this.

Why in the world would you waste weeks setting up a roleplay that will eventually have absolutely no relevance whatsoever in your life? I'm confused :P

Anyway, carry on. Just wanted to waste a little time.

OOC: To be perfectly honest I'd never take anyone seriously who claimed they weren’t following resolution. Even if Komokom said it. Or Cog. If anything, with Komokom, I'd have more argument fodder.

heeheehee

I love you all for giving me somewhere to waste my time like this.

Why in the world would you waste weeks setting up a roleplay that will eventually have absolutely no relevance whatsoever in your life? I'm confused :P

Anyway, carry on. Just wanted to waste a little time.

I actually roleplay to improve my writing ability and expose myself to different literary forms. As an English Education Major, that does in fact have a great deal of relevance to my life. In fact, it's part of what I plan to do for the rest of my life.

OOC: To be perfectly honest I'd never take anyone seriously who claimed they weren’t following resolution. Even if Komokom said it. Or Cog. If anything, with Komokom, I'd have more argument fodder.

OOC:

Oh I totally agree with you. This is also why I think the people who respond "Add another person to the list of people that didn't read the UN FAQ" really are making matters worse.

Max didn't write the FAQ to be a set of rules. They aren't written as such, which is why Endoia and the other moderators created the "Before you submit a proposal ..." sticky. Those are the rules for the UN, not Max's words of common sense.

The folks that beat the UN FAQ like it is their special magic stick, probably should respond to players who argue they aren't complying in a different way. I'd suggest the following be used (since it is the basic logic behind the FAQ's "you can't pick and choose" argument):

Nation A: "My government will not comply with this resolution! Fook You All!"

Nations B, C, & D: "Ok, Nation A ... if you won't comply with resolution #91, how is that so different than resolutions 1 - 90? We need details."

Nation A: "It is lame and stupid!"

Nations B, C, & D: "Ok, though that is a very weak opinion on your part, let's pretend that nations thought that way about the other resolutions 1 - 90 ... it is incredibly lazy and easy to just say, "It is lame and stupid", wouldn't you agree?"

Nation A: "Who cares if nations follow resolutions?"

Nations B, C, and D: "We do. If nations don't follow resolutions, what is the point behind the UN?"

Nation A: "To trick others into following your resolutions!"

Nations B, C, and D: "It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that if you can choose to not follow resolution #90, that people could pick and choose to not follow any resolutions. If that is the case, then there shouldn't be any changes in our governments due to the UN, and there isn't any point in being here. We might disagree with the resolutions, but it isn't like we are stuck with ideas forever. There is a process called a R-E-P-E-A-L, and if you feel so strongly about something, how about instead of crying about it, why don't you look at the repeal writing guide and make a well written reply. Lead by example, not crying like a baby about it."

OK, that is still a bit harsh, but that is the basic stand-off that Max was trying to avoid.

I still think it is OK to roleplay non-compliance, but in 99% of the cases I've seen the players doing so, don't know JACK about anything and clearly haven't thought their options through. The first question nations should ask themselves before joining the UN is, "Do I like the prior resolutions?" The second thing should be, "How can I best influence the UN to make more resolutions like the few I like?"

The answer to the first question is naturally going to depend on personal taste. The answer to the second question is honestly and truely not going to be, "I know, I'll cry like a 2-year old and tell everybody to DIE and Fook Off! That will make them reconsider what they've done."

Yeah right ...

I actually roleplay to improve my writing ability and expose myself to different literary forms. As an English Education Major, that does in fact have a great deal of relevance to my life. In fact, it's part of what I plan to do for the rest of my life.

I stand corrected. I also see your point. Hmmm... when I get more time, I may just find similar use for NS..... hmmmmm...

thanks for opening up these unenlightened eyes :)

We are clear on the other bit, but this second response here is exactly what we are talking about. How is no non-compliance not game enforced restrictions on roleplaying?

The idea is that there's technically two different worlds- the RP world (your nation on the forums) and the NS world (your nation the actual Game Site). These worlds do necessarily have to be the same- for example, the Game gives me a 90% tax rate, while I RP having a 47% tax rate. You can, however, assume that your RP nation is the same as your NS nation, but you don't have to. However, in the grand scheme of things, there is a disconnect between your RP nation and your NS nation, something that was made official when the NSUN declared that it cannot directly affect RP. This means that nations can RP noncompliance if they so choose to, but it also means that when they operate in the NS world- such as writing NSUN proposals- they have to assume compliance, since the Game forces compliance in the NS world.

Trekkers is my Secretary of State in the United States of America. In response to this travesty of a resolution we have been working in my region on a proposal that will make it legal to veto a UN resolution in your nation. This proposal is being finalized and will allow an UN nation to decide not to follow UN resolutions, however if it is abused you can lose UN status. We hope this will discourage people who need UN membership to protect their region from invaders from leaving the UN over issues like prostitution.

My bet is a "didn't happen" will occur as, most likely, the whole whine was just that - a whine, not an RP, not an attempt to do something creative. It was just a "I DOAN WANNA CAN'T MAKE ME! MOMMIE THEY'RE MAKING ME PLAY BY DA ROOLS!"
(emphasis added)

I think that could classify as defamatory.

but they're also a mod and a very powerful nationstate in this game who could vaporize your country on a whim. stop egging him on.

A mod isn't going to delete a nation on a whim. Nations aren't deleted for arguing that they aren't complying with UN resolutions--even if they fly directly in the face of game mechanics. Less intelligent, pointless, or contrary points of view aren't policed in the forums. If a poster continually asserts that the Sun revolves around the Earth, he or she will not be punished.

The points of view which are restricted in this forum are "any content that is obscene, illegal, threatening, malicious, defamatory, spam". If one asserting the sun as the center of the solar system posts content that is any of these, that would raise the possibility of moderator action. Mods have the power they do to ensure the forums remain somewhat wholesome, not to keep posters from being strange or incorrect. That wouldn't be fair to ask of the mods, and wouldn't be just to inflict upon the forum.

Entire Post OOC: Pish. I understood it as RPing. But then, I got severely reprimanded and my nation got deleted the first time I tried RPing aggro here and somebody misunderstood.That's such a load of bollocks. (What happened to you, not what you're saying). I hope you put in an offical complaint. Sorry, but any mod who deletes somebody for roleplaying...When most of the thread is about game mechanics, it is reasonable to question what parts of a post are IC and OOC.
Questioning is fine. If anybody's ever unsure I promise not to be an arse if you ask me. It's assuming that things are OOC unless it's expressely stating the opposite.

Trekkers is my Secretary of State in the United States of America. In response to this travesty of a resolution we have been working in my region on a proposal that will make it legal to veto a UN resolution in your nation. This proposal is being finalized and will allow an UN nation to decide not to follow UN resolutions, however if it is abused you can lose UN status. We hope this will discourage people who need UN membership to protect their region from invaders from leaving the UN over issues like prostitution.It can't happen I'm afraid. Essentially, any motion that would involve a change in the game mechanics won't go through,and I'm afraid yours would do. Hopefully Mikitivy's idea will be taken up in NS2.

It can't happen I'm afraid. Essentially, any motion that would involve a change in the game mechanics won't go through,and I'm afraid yours would do. Hopefully Mikitivy's idea will be taken up in NS2.

I seriously don't see the mods deleting anybody for calling the UN a bunch of stinkers. Heck, there may be a few mods that might silently agree. The situation being talked about by Asshelmetta is a reference to a "roleplayed" assassination of Pilot's UN Ambassador ... frankly I think it was a touch off, and a number of us weren't sure at the time (we are now of course). It just underscores that players need to feel the waters before jumping in the pond first. Moderators aren't going to interupt something they feel is well recieved, but if it appears to be griefing another player, even roleplaying is something they can and will politely "moderate".

As for the NS2 idea, since this is a split, I created a poll on the NS2 forum:
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=396056

Please follow the link and repost your ideas. If there is enough interest we may be able to attract a moderator, who in turn may catch the eyes of a game admin. ;)

Trekkers is my Secretary of State in the United States of America. In response to this travesty of a resolution we have been working in my region on a proposal that will make it legal to veto a UN resolution in your nation. This proposal is being finalized and will allow an UN nation to decide not to follow UN resolutions, however if it is abused you can lose UN status. We hope this will discourage people who need UN membership to protect their region from invaders from leaving the UN over issues like prostitution.

You must remember, my good Gregstonia, that the UN is a world government. The resolutions that it passes are law. If you don't like them, then campaign against them, argue against them. And as far as I understand, this act was an attempt to ensure that those who were going to prostitute themselves did so in such a way as to not endanger anyone. I am very much against the idea of prostitution as well and will do my best to act upon the clause that suggests that educational programs etc be introduced highly discouraging the act... but I also don't want the whole STD thing... because driving something underground invariably makes it dirty and even worse than if it were not legal.

I've always RPed as if there's a special Ministry of United Nations Resolution Compliance (short form: United Nations Compliance Ministry) that drafts laws to place my nation in compliance with various UN resolutions. These laws must, however, be approved by a majority of both Councils and signed by the President, although they may not be amended. The Compliance Ministry, since its final approval board consists of forty-two officials that are appointed by various agencies, generally can find loopholes that keep the Goobergunchian government in compliance with both the UN and our policies.

(Goobergunchia is not in the UN for Gameplay reasons - I consider Goobergunchia to be ICly in the UN and I usually remember to vote with my UN nation.)

For an example of how I do this, check out http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=384848&page=9&pp=20 - for those interested, I also posted my Compliance Act for Fantasan's "Common Sense Act II" way back when that was passed, although I'm not sure if that thread is still extant. Loopholes usually exist, but the trick is to be clever about exploiting them rationally.

This has been an OOC post.

Goobergunch City, Goobergunchia
8 February 2005

We are somewhat insulted by the Hack's description of us as "gnomes", although we are moderately flattered at their belief in our omnipotence. We can assure the Hackian government [ooc: did I get that right?] that we are of normal height and have no special powers.

Consensus Opinion
United Nations Compliance Ministry
Liberal Unitary Republic of Goobergunchia

Trekkers is my Secretary of State in the United States of America. In response to this travesty of a resolution we have been working in my region on a proposal that will make it legal to veto a UN resolution in your nation. This proposal is being finalized and will allow an UN nation to decide not to follow UN resolutions, however if it is abused you can lose UN status. We hope this will discourage people who need UN membership to protect their region from invaders from leaving the UN over issues like prostitution.

That'll be an illegal proposal.

The representative from Vastiva is correct. If submitted, I will raise a point of order against such a proposal as a game mechanics ruling, which was most definitively addressed under the Announcement by the Chair dated 3 October 2003:

Game Mechanics
"We should make it so that all UN Members can vote on proposals before they reach the floor", "We should be able to vote on 2 proposals at once", "The UN should create <multinational organisation>". All of these proposals propose changes to the Game Mechanics governing the running of NationStates.
I cannot stress this enough, You Cannot Play God Here. Your proposal may well be a useful change to the way the game works, and a few changes to the game (ejection of nations from regions, proposal search function) had their genesis in proposals. The bottom line is that they were not adopted because of the successful passage of a proposal, and neither will your suggestion be.

[Lord] Michael Evif
Goobergunchian UN Ambassador

That'll be an illegal proposal.

*sigh* I think that was already established my dear Vastiva.

OOC: Just because you have 3400 more posts than me, doesn't mean that I'm insignificant! *cries in corner* (j/k)

*NOTE* Disregard above. The UN ambassador that made such a silly statement was an interim substitute as the actual UN ambassador is suffering from a particular bad case of the flu. He has been summarily executed and stuffed with cotton. Gflekers bows to the wisdom of Vastiva on such matters.

He has been summarily executed and stuffed with cotton.
Which one, the interim ambassador or the actual one?

Which one, the interim ambassador or the actual one?

The interim of course. Would you like to buy it? It would make a wonderful gift for that significant other ;)

A mod isn't going to delete a nation on a whim.

Depsite numerous claims in Moderation, this is correct, we don't delete on a whim.

Asshelmetia's other bit there seemed to be implying that I was some kind of RAWR! nation that could level a country IC. Well... no, not really. The Hack isn't very militarized. I my defence spending is 2% (from XML), and my military size is... oh... 0.04878% of my population. Hardly a warmonger.

Goobergunch City, Goobergunchia
8 February 2005

We are somewhat insulted by the Hack's description of us as "gnomes", although we are moderately flattered at their belief in our omnipotence. We can assure the Hackian government [ooc: did I get that right?] that we are of normal height and have no special powers.

Consensus Opinion
United Nations Compliance Ministry
Liberal Unitary Republic of Goobergunchia

Dir Sir(s),

I do believe the representative from the Hack was refering to us. We are pleased, however, that we have never had to do more than review your laws to make sure they comply with what the UN demands. It's so much easier than rewriting hundreds upon hundreds of pages of laws.

You won't believe what some of these guys try to get away with.

"Ain't nothing gonna break-a my stride!"
UN Gnome in Charge of Pointles Corrections and Praise

[ooc: And it's "Hacker" :p ]

Members of the United Nations:

It is rare we address the UN here but we feel we must. A tradgey occured today. The legalization of prosititution, which has been illegal within Trekkers boarder since it's beginning. The recent BS resolution will not be allowed within Trekkers boarders though we will remain in the UN.

We encorage other nations to follow suit. We are embarrased by this body of nations that you have enacted this immoral and stupid resolution.
The Republic of The DeVaSTaToR will not allow this either.

The Republic of The DeVaSTaToR will not allow this either.

You already have.

The interim of course. Would you like to buy it? It would make a wonderful gift for that significant other ;)
Hmmm. I'll take it if you offer a full wardrobe to go along (male and female outfits) and a stuffed dog so the Grand Patriarch's daughter can play house.

ROFLMAO at UN Gnomes!

This has been an OOC post.

Depsite numerous claims in Moderation, this is correct, we don't delete on a whim.

Asshelmetia's other bit there seemed to be implying that I was some kind of RAWR! nation that could level a country IC. Well... no, not really. The Hack isn't very militarized. I my defence spending is 2% (from XML), and my military size is... oh... 0.04878% of my population. Hardly a warmonger.

Some day I'll figure out how it was possible for another player IC to attack me so harsh he got my country deleted.

Hmmm. I'll take it if you offer a full wardrobe to go along (male and female outfits) and a stuffed dog so the Grand Patriarch's daughter can play house.

Well Gflekers is incredibly short on dogs right now... they have all been shot due to the fact that they were diluting the purity of our national animal, the glonker. However, we would be willing to offer you a stuffed glonker instead. Their fur is really something else.

Some day I'll figure out how it was possible for another player IC to attack me so harsh he got my country deleted.

Simple: You were reported to the mods at the same time.

Well Gflekers is incredibly short on dogs right now... they have all been shot due to the fact that they were diluting the purity of our national animal, the glonker. However, we would be willing to offer you a stuffed glonker instead. Their fur is really something else.
Agreed. I'll send a transport over immediately (and I'll bring some of those little Nargopian toasted ravioli you're always raving about).

Agreed. I'll send a transport over immediately (and I'll bring some of those little Nargopian toasted ravioli you're always raving about).

Done and done! I await the arrival of your transport with much anticipation.

*orders the chefs to get ready for the ravioli*