NationStates Jolt Archive

Hey, all!

Please consider approving my proposal, The Constitution Act. The transcript is as follows:

The Constitution Act
A resolution to increase democratic freedoms.
*

Category: The Furtherment of Democracy
Strength: Strong
Proposed by: The Titanian Democracy

Description: This act recognizes the independece of all member nations.

The Constitutions or Laws of each nation shall have precidence over the laws or resolutions put forth by the United Nations except in cases of Slavery, and human torture.

IT IS recognized that all member nations are independent and are capable of making decisions about their own nations except in the cases mentioned above.

Approvals: 4 (The Titanian Democracy, The Kingsland, Grays Harbor, Joven)

Status: Lacking Support (requires 140 more approvals)

Voting Ends: Sat Jan 22 2005



Yeah, I know, it's short, but I think it gets the job done.

It's also illegal. It allows a nation to override the UN, which is in direct contradiction of both the rules of the game and a UN resolution. Don't be surprised if it gets deleted.

It's also illegal. It allows a nation to override the UN, which is in direct contradiction of both the rules of the game and a UN resolution. Don't be surprised if it gets deleted.
Yes but even the real UN adknowledges that it is the unalienable right of a country to make the major decisions for it's citizens. If that was not the case then the UN could have force all communist countries to switch to democracies or vise versa. All countries have the right to have their citizens choose to ignore a directive from the UN if it is counter to the belief system or choices of it's citizens. Look at the drug trade and freedoms in Holland against the official position of the UN. ETC....

I support this motion!

Yes but even the real UN adknowledges that it is the unalienable right of a country to make the major decisions for it's citizens. If that was not the case then the UN could have force all communist countries to switch to democracies or vise versa. All countries have the right to have their citizens choose to ignore a directive from the UN if it is counter to the belief system or choices of it's citizens. Look at the drug trade and freedoms in Holland against the official position of the UN. ETC....

I support this motion!
While that may be true with the real UN, this is NationStates and here compliance with UN resolutions is manditory and enforced by the UN Gnomes.

Ha! DLE is right, this motion is impossible, no matter how you theorize it.... Hmm, or perhaps it would put the game in an infinite loop, if thats how the game worked, which it doesn't.
Muahhaah I feel so powerful now that i'm a delegate

Greetings,

The defense of the own national Constitution sounds really good. But the text of the resolution is not completely fair because nobody is threatening the national sovereignty. And, of course, UN cannot be compared with any kind of menace to national independence.

If any country considers his Constitution is being attacked by the resolutions of UN, there is an easy way to prevent the attack: leave UN and your Constitution will be safe.

If don't, nations should respect the fundational protocols proposed in United Nations. Entering the UN is a sovereign action in which the new member admits to respect the resolutions democratically approved and gets the ability of proposing some. This is the way UN goes on.

The approval of this resolution would change this in a very problematic way. First of all, if Constitutions are over UN resolutions, where is the utility of these? Resolutions would have only a declarative value (just like real UN solutions, by the way), and nobody would be interested in proposing more.

And if resolutions weren't compulsory, would UN be really necessary? Definitely not. In a word, all the international government system based in UN would be destroyed, not only for nations out of the United, but for all.

In the name of the President of the Republic of Limore, the Government I represent asks the author of the resolution to retire it and negotiate another kind of text which makes compatible the national sovereignity with the power of UN resolutions. If finally this version of resolution is sent to UN members to vote it, this Government would refuse it energically and would use any resource available to prevent success.

Sincerely,

UN Relations Secretary of Foreign Affairs Ministry of Limore

This resolution is illegal.

Giordano,
Acting Senior UN representative,
The Black New World,
Delegate to The Order of The Valiant States

But the text of the resolution is not completely fair because nobody is threatening the national sovereignty. And, of course, UN cannot be compared with any kind of menace to national independence.

Bwahahahahahahaha! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! *giggles* :D

Yes but even the real UN adknowledges that it is the unalienable right of a country to make the major decisions for it's citizens.

This UN doesn't. You either comply or leave. You can try to get it repealed, but you must comply until it is repealed.

Oh, this isn't the real UN.

If that was not the case then the UN could have force all communist countries to switch to democracies or vise versa.

Which is illegal under game rules.

All countries have the right to have their citizens choose to ignore a directive from the UN if it is counter to the belief system or choices of it's citizens.

Not in this UN. Read the FAQ.

Look at the drug trade and freedoms in Holland against the official position of the UN. ETC....

This is NS, not reality. Reality doesn't apply where NS contradicts it.

The defense of the own national Constitution sounds really good. But the text of the resolution is not completely fair because nobody is threatening the national sovereignty. And, of course, UN cannot be compared with any kind of menace to national independence.

The UN automatically overrides national sovereignity. You have no choice in the matter. Read the FAQ.

So, yes, it is a menace to national independence. Mainly because by joining it you give that up.

However, taken in context, the arguement I just made in reply to your quote is worthless. The only reason I am leaving it up is to make a point to others.

If any country considers his Constitution is being attacked by the resolutions of UN, there is an easy way to prevent the attack: leave UN and your Constitution will be safe.

I think that should be added to the FAQ. And I'm not being sarcastic.

If don't, nations should respect the fundational protocols proposed in United Nations. Entering the UN is a sovereign action in which the new member admits to respect the resolutions democratically approved and gets the ability of proposing some. This is the way UN goes on.

The approval of this resolution would change this in a very problematic way. First of all, if Constitutions are over UN resolutions, where is the utility of these? Resolutions would have only a declarative value (just like real UN solutions, by the way), and nobody would be interested in proposing more.

And if resolutions weren't compulsory, would UN be really necessary? Definitely not. In a word, all the international government system based in UN would be destroyed, not only for nations out of the United, but for all.

In the name of the President of the Republic of Limore, the Government I represent asks the author of the resolution to retire it and negotiate another kind of text which makes compatible the national sovereignity with the power of UN resolutions. If finally this version of resolution is sent to UN members to vote it, this Government would refuse it energically and would use any resource available to prevent success.

I like the way you worded that and how you show knowledge of how the UN works while still being nice to the person. I would love to archive just your post so it can be a reference article in the future to help other nations. And I am not being sarcastic.

While that may be true with the real UN, this is NationStates and here compliance with UN resolutions is manditory and enforced by the UN Gnomes.

That is why I left the UN. All isee is acts that would might go against the morals and values of the poeple of my country. When the members of the UN really start to think about what they are voting on and quit because they feel it is a good idea I may consider coming back. These is a reason why only some 30 thousand countries are in the UN.

That is why I left the UN. All isee is acts that would might go against the morals and values of the poeple of my country. When the members of the UN really start to think about what they are voting on and quit because they feel it is a good idea I may consider coming back. These is a reason why only some 30 thousand countries are in the UN.
Oh.

Giordano,
Acting Senior UN representative,
The Black New World

That is why I left the UN. All isee is acts that would might go against the morals and values of the poeple of my country. When the members of the UN really start to think about what they are voting on and quit because they feel it is a good idea I may consider coming back. These is a reason why only some 30 thousand countries are in the UN.

You'll find some of us do think about it and agree with them anyway. And the reason why there are only 30,000 nations in the UN is there is only about 100,000 actual active nations, with at least 20,000 being alts of others.

Note to those who haven't figured it out yet. NS UN = WORLD GOVERNMENT.

if you don't like it... there's that handly little button with resign on it :)

and besides, the real UN is an ineffectual piece of crap that does nothing because most of its resolutions are non-binding.

This proposal makes no sense. If you have the power to override every resolution by passing a law in your country, then that simply defeats the point of an international constitution making council.

....and besides which, in every case of a resolution, there are some nations that find a loophole...and exploit it to considerable advantage.

Not that Necros-Vacuia would ever do this, at any rate....

Malachi Herrev
Interim Ambassador to the UN
Greater Sovereign Dominion of Necros-Vacuia

This proposal is illegal under NationStates rules and has been deleted.

NationStates rules dictate that all nations that join the UN must abide by all UN resolutions. UN member nations surrender their sovereignty to the United Nations on any and all matters that the UN, as a whole, chooses to pass resolutions on. You may not submit a proposal that contradicts NationStates rules.

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation
"Think about it for a moment."
NationStates Game Moderator

It's a bit of a bad idea anyway. Kinda like allowing criminals to decide whether to uphold the law or not.

OOC: Which is my main gripe with the RL UN (among many others...)

Want to protect your national sovereignty?

Click Here (http://www.nationstates.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/page=un), then click on the button that says "Resign".

Your proposal won't cut it.

OOC: Ok. New player made illegal proposal. New player has had situation explained to them. Can we get off the dude's back now people?

This doesn't apply to everyone on this thread (some of whom have been properly constructive), but certain nations would be better advised to help new players a bit more as opposed to radiating an air of irritating smugness the whole time.

OOC: Ok. New player made illegal proposal. New player has had situation explained to them. Can we get off the dude's back now people?

This doesn't apply to everyone on this thread (some of whom have been properly constructive), but certain nations would be better advised to help new players a bit more as opposed to radiating an air of irritating smugness the whole time.

Unless said certain nations are that way with all proposals they reply to, in which case they are treating people equally.

But not nicely.

But not nicely.

If everyone was meant to be nice, maybe humanity would have solved many of its basic problems by now. As it is, I don't see that happening.

Man, I can't believe that this thread has made it through two whole pages. I suppose I'm only encouraging it's continuation by posting this but... Oh well...