NationStates Jolt Archive

For those of you who don't know, I've been working on a proposal called the Right to Self-Protection for several months now, and I finally submitted it and the telegram campaign will begin shortly. The thread where this proposal was discussed is found here (http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=386344). Note that I had eliminated the second clause because Toriella Thiten of TilEnca objected to it strenuously, but after receiving a certain message from her this morning put it back in. Wait a moment while I get a copy of the proposal and post it, please.


Right to Self-Protection

Proposed By: Texan Hotrodders
Category: Human Rights
Strength: Mild

Description: NOTICING that there are persons who, individually or collectively, willingly cause harm to other persons.

RECOGNIZING that such persons engage in acts of violence which are harmful to both sovereign individuals and societies.

URGES member nations to enact the following:

1. All persons have the right to use reasonable force to defend their person or their legally obtained property from imminent or current unlawful assaults.

2. All persons have the right to use reasonable force to defend other persons or the legally obtained property of other persons from imminent or current unlawful assaults.

Approvals: 0

Status: Lacking Support (requires 145 more approvals)

Voting Ends: Thu Jan 20 2005

Approved

Giordano,
Acting Senior UN representative,
The Black New World,
Delegate to The Order of The Valiant States

Approved

Giordano,
Acting Senior UN representative,
The Black New World,
Delegate to The Order of The Valiant States

I noticed. Thanks! :)

I noticed you noticed

Giordano,
Acting Senior UN representative,
The Black New World

(grin) I am quite glad the TG got to you after sending it to the wrong nation first time :}

I can't actually approve it (sigh - I have NO power!) but I will bring it to the attention of my delegate and ask him (her/it/etc) to review it.

(grin) I am quite glad the TG got to you after sending it to the wrong nation first time :}

I can't actually approve it (sigh - I have NO power!) but I will bring it to the attention of my delegate and ask him (her/it/etc) to review it.

Thanks. :) And I appreciate you sending me the telegram when you did. I received it just before submitting the proposal. :D

OOC: TH are you going to make a thread in [shifty eyes] that other forum [shifty eyes], I will sticky it.

OOC: TH are you going to make a thread in [shifty eyes] that other forum [shifty eyes], I will sticky it.

Hmmm. I'll send you a PM on that forum about it.

Last I checked, my proposal had 47 approvals. I would like to express my gratitude to all the delegates who have approved my proposal so far. Y'all rock!

The proposal is now at 66 approvals! I would like to thank all the delegates who have approved my proposal. :D

The esteemed Mr Jones is already aware of the Ecopoeian position, but it's worth bringing it out into the wider UN community, if nothing else to help dispel any fears some may have over this proposal.

In short, even a fluffy treehugging pinko society like ours has no problem with this; the author has commendably made allowance for the great range of views on the subject and come up with a very acceptable statement.

Mathieu Vergniaud
Deputy Speaker to the UN

Thank you. I would also like to thank all of the delegates, 84 at last count, that have endorsed my proposal.

Description: NOTICING that there are persons who, individually or collectively, willingly cause harm to other persons. [quote] How you define "harm"? phisical harm? spirtual harm? psychic harm? if anybody could say "he harm my feelings, let me shoot him" this will be disaster.

[quote]RECOGNIZING that such persons engage in acts of violence which are harmful to both sovereign individuals and societies. I could ask you again: which kind of violence you aim? depite that I ask you: why you think states should let citizens response, when they could tell the police/army/goverment/choose your favorite.

URGES member nations to enact the following:

1. All persons have the right to use reasonable force to defend their person or their legally obtained property from imminent or current unlawful assaults.

2. All persons have the right to use reasonable force to defend other persons or the legally obtained property of other persons from imminent or current unlawful assaults. did you mean reponse violence in other violence?
that way you will came very close to gang fights.
while you aren't tell what is violence, harm or reasonable force this proposal is way too vague.

TH, I wish you better luck for the next time you submit it. But as it is, it won't reach quorum. If the pattern holds, it will get probably up to over 100 but fail anyway. The next try should, with the right campaign, send it all the way.

[quote]Description: NOTICING that there are persons who, individually or collectively, willingly cause harm to other persons. [quote] How you define "harm"? phisical harm? spirtual harm? psychic harm? if anybody could say "he harm my feelings, let me shoot him" this will be disaster.

I could ask you again: which kind of violence you aim? depite that I ask you: why you think states should let citizens response, when they could tell the police/army/goverment/choose your favorite.

did you mean reponse violence in other violence?
that way you will came very close to gang fights.
while you aren't tell what is violence, harm or reasonable force this proposal is way too vague.

I'm sorry, my friend. I will not be making further changes to the text of this proposal. Your complaint is the one that usually comes up among the small minority who have expressed serious opposition to the proposal. I can't please everyone, and I'm not going to attempt it at this point. If you want a more specific self-defense proposal, have a look at Fatastistan's.

TH, I wish you better luck for the next time you submit it. But as it is, it won't reach quorum. If the pattern holds, it will get probably up to over 100 but fail anyway. The next try should, with the right campaign, send it all the way.

Thanks. I've noticed that myself, though the proposal is at 96 approvals now and I appreciate all of the support.

[QUOTE=Green israel][quote]Description: NOTICING that there are persons who, individually or collectively, willingly cause harm to other persons.

I'm sorry, my friend. I will not be making further changes to the text of this proposal. Your complaint is the one that usually comes up among the small minority who have expressed serious opposition to the proposal. I can't please everyone, and I'm not going to attempt it at this point. If you want a more specific self-defense proposal, have a look at Fatastistan's.

See - I support your version of it because it is non-specific. Fatastistan's was so specific it opened it up to all sorts of abuses, which made things worse.

Thanks to all who have supported and approved my proposal. As DLE predicted, it got to over 100 (specifically 108) and then failed. Next week I will submit the proposal again, and hope that it goes all the way. :)