NationStates Jolt Archive

Dear members, I remember to you that there is the proposal ICoJ, Human rights:strong.

It's simply the original constitution of the real ICoJ. Because I must be out for same time, I will not reply to you. sorry :(

This is the text:

THE INTERNATIONAL COURT OF JUSTICE


Article 1

The International Court of Justice shall be the principal judicial organ of the United Nations. It shall function in accordance with the annexed Statute, which is based upon the Statute of the Permanent Court of International Justice and forms an integral part of the present Charter.

Article 2

1. All Members of the United Nations are ipso facto parties to the Statute of the International Court of Justice.

2. A state which is not a Member of the United Nations may become a party to the Statute of the International Court of Justice on condition to be determined in each case by the General Assembly upon the recommendation of the Security Council.

Article 3

1. Each Member of the United Nations undertakes to comply with the decision of the International Court of Justice in any case to which it is a party.

2. If any party to a case fails to perform the obligations incumbent upon it under a judgment rendered by the Court, the other party may have recourse to the Security Council, which may, if it deems necessary, make recommendations or decide upon measures to be taken to give to the judgment.

Article 4

Nothing in the present Charter shall prevent Members of the United Nations from entrusting the solution of their differences to other tribunals by virtue of agreements already in existence or which may be concluded in the future.

Article 5

1. The General Assembly or the Security Council may request the International Court of Justice to give an advisory opinion on any legal question.

2. Other organs of the United Nations and specialized agencies, which may at any time be so authorized by the General Assembly, may also request advisory opinions of the Court on legal questions arising within the scope of their activities.

After a brief/quick read I don't see a problem. Plus it won't conflict with the only other resolution to set up an international tribunal (for want of a better phrase) which is good foresight :}

Dear members, I remember to you that there is the proposal ICoJ, Human rights:strong.

It's simply the original constitution of the real ICoJ. Because I must be out for same time, I will not reply to you. sorry :(

No problem. It'll be interesting to read.

This is the text:

THE INTERNATIONAL COURT OF JUSTICE


Article 1

The International Court of Justice shall be the principal judicial organ of the United Nations. It shall function in accordance with the annexed Statute, which is based upon the Statute of the Permanent Court of International Justice and forms an integral part of the present Charter.

Article 2

1. All Members of the United Nations are ipso facto parties to the Statute of the International Court of Justice.

2. A state which is not a Member of the United Nations may become a party to the Statute of the International Court of Justice on condition to be determined in each case by the General Assembly upon the recommendation of the Security Council.

Article 3

1. Each Member of the United Nations undertakes to comply with the decision of the International Court of Justice in any case to which it is a party.

2. If any party to a case fails to perform the obligations incumbent upon it under a judgment rendered by the Court, the other party may have recourse to the Security Council, which may, if it deems necessary, make recommendations or decide upon measures to be taken to give to the judgment.

Article 4

Nothing in the present Charter shall prevent Members of the United Nations from entrusting the solution of their differences to other tribunals by virtue of agreements already in existence or which may be concluded in the future.

Article 5

1. The General Assembly or the Security Council may request the International Court of Justice to give an advisory opinion on any legal question.

2. Other organs of the United Nations and specialized agencies, which may at any time be so authorized by the General Assembly, may also request advisory opinions of the Court on legal questions arising within the scope of their activities.

Not too bad, but one enforcement question: How are you going to enforce it in multination empires? DLE, for example, is both a nation (The Most Serene Republic of DemonLordEnigma) and an empire (The DemonLordEnigma Empire), with the nation ruling the empire. The majority of the Empire is nations that are outside the UN, with only one being inside. Thus, while you can make all of the rulings on the nation that is inside the UN, you still have to contend with the fact the real government is effectively immune to the UN if he chooses to be.

It's a nice idea, but the NSUN doesn't have a Security Council and you haven't explained how the court functions.

It's a nice idea, but the NSUN doesn't have a Security Council and you haven't explained how the court functions.
It also refers in Article 1 to the UN charter which is something we don't have.

Dear members, I remember to you that there is the proposal ICoJ, Human rights:strong.

It's simply the original constitution of the real ICoJ. Because I must be out for same time, I will not reply to you. sorry :(

This is the text:

THE INTERNATIONAL COURT OF JUSTICE


Article 1

The International Court of Justice shall be the principal judicial organ of the United Nations. It shall function in accordance with the annexed Statute, which is based upon the Statute of the Permanent Court of International Justice and forms an integral part of the present Charter.

Doesn't exist in NS. Makes the proposal illegal.



Article 2

1. All Members of the United Nations are ipso facto parties to the Statute of the International Court of Justice.

2. A state which is not a Member of the United Nations may become a party to the Statute of the International Court of Justice on condition to be determined in each case by the General Assembly upon the recommendation of the Security Council.

There isn't one.



Article 3

1. Each Member of the United Nations undertakes to comply with the decision of the International Court of Justice in any case to which it is a party.

2. If any party to a case fails to perform the obligations incumbent upon it under a judgment rendered by the Court, the other party may have recourse to the Security Council, which may, if it deems necessary, make recommendations or decide upon measures to be taken to give to the judgment.

Still doesn't exist. And the UN has amazingly little enforcement power, what with no budget or military. Or police.



Article 4

Nothing in the present Charter shall prevent Members of the United Nations from entrusting the solution of their differences to other tribunals by virtue of agreements already in existence or which may be concluded in the future.

Article 5

1. The General Assembly or the Security Council may request the International Court of Justice to give an advisory opinion on any legal question.

Still isn't a Security Council. If the General Assembly refers to the membership, so be it.


2. Other organs of the United Nations and specialized agencies, which may at any time be so authorized by the General Assembly, may also request advisory opinions of the Court on legal questions arising within the scope of their activities.

Ok...

Sorry, but it's illegal by game terms.

This proposal is very welcome and the author is to be commended. However, above objections concerning the nature of the UN as it currently stands render the proposal unworkable. Is it possible for a re-draft to take account of these factors, I wonder?

Kind regards

Varia Yefremova
Speaker to the UN

Vastiva has reason: sorry, but mine was only a C&P :)

I hope that this would be better. If you like it, I submit now or I attend the fail of the other proposal?

STATUTE OF THE INTERNATIONAL COURT OF JUSTICE

Article 1

The International Court of Justice established, the principal judicial organ of the United Nations, shall be constituted and shall function in accordance with the provisions of the present Statute.



CHAPTER I - ORGANIZATION OF THE COURT


Article 2

The Court shall be composed of a body of independent judges, elected regardless of their nationality from among persons of high moral character, who possess the qualifications required in their respective countries for appointment to the highest judicial offices, or are jurisconsults of recognized competence in international law.


Article 3

1. The Court shall consist of fifteen members, no two of whom may be nationals of the same state.

2. A person who for the purposes of membership in the Court could be regarded as a national of more than one state shall be deemed to be a national of the one in which he ordinarily exercises civil and political rights.


Article 4

The members of the Court shall be elected by the General Assembly.


Article 5

At least three months before the date of the election, the Secretary-General of the United Nations shall address a written request to the members of the General Assembly, inviting them to undertake, within a given time, the nomination of persons in a position to accept the duties of a member of the Court.


Article 6

Before making these nominations, each member is recommended to consult its highest court of justice, its legal faculties and schools of law, and its national academies and national sections of international academies devoted to the study of law.


Article 7

1. The Secretary-General shall prepare a list in alphabetical order of all the persons thus nominated. Save as provided in Article 12, paragraph 2, these shall be the only persons eligible.

2. The Secretary-General shall submit this list to the General Assembly.


Article 8

The General Assembly shall proceed independently of one another to elect the members of the Court.


Article 9

At every election, the electors shall bear in mind not only that the persons to be elected should individually possess the qualifications required, but also that in the body as a whole the representation of the main forms of civilization and of the principal legal systems of the world should be assured.


Article 10

Those candidates who obtain an absolute majority of votes in the General Assembly shall be considered as elected.


Article 11

If, after the first meeting held for the purpose of the election, one or more seats remain to be filled, a second and, if necessary, a third meeting shall take place.


Article 12

1. If, after the third meeting, one or more seats still remain unfilled, a joint conference consisting of six members,appointed by the General Assembly, may be formed at any time at the request of the General Assembly, for the purpose of choosing by the vote of an absolute majority one name for each seat still vacant, to submit to the General Assembly.

2. If the joint conference is unanimously agreed upon any person who fulfills the required conditions, he may be included in its list, even though he was not included in the list of nominations referred to in Article 7.

3. If the joint conference is satisfied that it will not be successful in procuring an election, those members of the Court who have already been elected shall, within a period to be fixed by the General Assembly, proceed to fill the vacant seats by selection from among those candidates who have obtained votes in the General Assembly.

4. In the event of an equality of votes among the judges, the eldest judge shall have a casting vote.


Article 13

1. The members of the Court shall be elected for nine years and may be re-elected; provided, however, that of the judges elected at the first election, the terms of five judges shall expire at the end of three years and the terms of five more judges shall expire at the end of six years.

2. The judges whose terms are to expire at the end of the above-mentioned initial periods of three and six years shall be chosen by lot to be drawn by the Secretary-General immediately after the first election has been completed.

3. The members of the Court shall continue to discharge their duties until their places have been filled. Though replaced, they shall finish any cases which they may have begun.

4. In the case of the resignation of a member of the Court, the resignation shall be addressed to the President of the Court for transmission to the Secretary-General. This last notification makes the place vacant.


Article 14

Vacancies shall be filled by the same method as that laid down for the first election subject to the following provision: the Secretary-General shall, within one month of the occurrence of the vacancy, proceed to issue the invitations provided for in Article 5, and the date of the election shall be fixed by the Secretrary-General.


Article 15

A member of the Court elected to replace a member whose term of office has not expired shall hold office for the remainder of his predecessor's term.


Article 16

1. No member of the Court may exercise any political or administrative function, or engage in any other occupation of a professional nature.

2. Any doubt on this point shall be settled by the decision of the Court.


Article 17

1. No member of the Court may act as agent, counsel, or advocate in any case.

2. No member may participate in the decision of any case in which he has previously taken part as agent, counsel, or advocate for one of the parties, or as a member of a national or international court, or of a commission of enquiry, or in any other capacity.

3. Any doubt on this point shall be settled by the decision of the Court.


Article 18

1. No member of the Court can be dismissed unless, in the unanimous opinion of the other members, he has ceased to fulfill the required conditions.

2. Formal notification thereof shall be made to the Secretary-General by the Registrar.

3. This notification makes the place vacant.


Article 19

The members of the Court, when engaged on the business of the Court, shall enjoy diplomatic privileges and immunities.


Article 20

Every member of the Court shall, before taking up his duties, make a solemn declaration in open court that he will exercise his powers impartially and conscientiously.


Article 21

1. The Court shall elect its President and Vice-President for three years; they may be re-elected.

2. The Court shall appoint its Registrar and may provide for the appointment of such other officers as may be necessary.


Article 22

1. The seat of the Court shall be established at Freeburg, Real Freedonia. This, however, shall not prevent the Court from sitting and exercising its functions elsewhere whenever the Court considers it desirable.

2. The President and the Registrar shall reside at the seat of the Court.


Article 23

1. The Court shall remain permanently in session, except during the judicial vacations, the dates and duration of which shall be fixed by the Court.

2. Members of the Court are entitled to periodic leave, the dates and duration of which shall be fixed by the Court, having in mind the distance between The Hague and the home of each judge.

3. Members of the Court shall be bound, unless they are on leave or prevented from attending by illness or other serious reasons duly explained to the President, to hold themselves permanently at the disposal of the Court.


Article 24

1. If, for some special reason, a member of the Court considers that he should not take part in the decision of a particular case, he shall so inform the President.

2. If the President considers that for some special reason one of the members of the Court should not sit in a particular case, he shall give him notice accordingly.

3. If in any such case the member Court and the President disagree, the matter shall be settled by the decision of the Court.


Article 25

1. The full Court shall sit except when it is expressly provided otherwise in the present Statute.

2. Subject to the condition that the number of judges available to constitute the Court is not thereby reduced below eleven, the Rules of the Court may provide for allowing one or more judges, according to circumstances and in rotation, to be dispensed from sitting.

3. A quorum of nine judges shall suffice to constitute the Court.


Article 26

1. The Court may from time to time form one or more chambers, composed of three or more judges as the Court may determine, for dealing with particular categories of cases; for example, labour cases and cases relating to transit and communications.

2. The Court may at any time form a chamber for dealing with a particular case. The number of judges to constitute such a chamber shall be determined by the Court with the approval of the parties.

3. Cases shall be heard and determined by the chambers provided for in this article if the parties so request.


Article 27


A judgment given by any of the chambers provided for in Articles 26 and 29 shall be considered as rendered by the Court.


Article 28

The chambers provided for in Articles 26 and 29 may, with the consent of the parties, sit and exercise their functions elsewhere than at Freeburg.


Article 29

With a view to the speedy dispatch of business, the Court shall form annually a chamber composed of five judges which, at the request of the parties, may hear and determine cases by summary procedure. In addition, two judges shall be selected for the purpose of replacing judges who find it impossible to sit.


Article 30

1. The Court shall frame rules for carrying out its functions. In particular, it shall lay down rules of procedure.

2. The Rules of the Court may provide for assessors to sit with the Court or with any of its chambers, without the right to vote.


Article 31

1. Judges of the nationality of each of the parties shall retain their right to sit in the case before the Court.

2. If the Court includes upon the Bench a judge of the nationality of one of the parties, any other party may choose a person to sit as judge. Such person shall be chosen preferably from among those persons who have been nominated as candidates as provided in Articles 4 and 5.

3. If the Court includes upon the Bench no judge of the nationality of the parties, each of these parties may proceed to choose a judge as provided in paragraph 2 of this Article.

4. The provisions of this Article shall apply to the case of Articles 26 and 29. In such cases, the President shall request one or, if necessary, two of the members of the Court forming the chamber to give place to the members of the Court of the nationality of the parties concerned, and, failing such, or if they are unable to be present, to the judges specially chosen by the parties.

5. Should there be several parties in the same interest, they shall, for the purpose of the preceding provisions, be reckoned as one party only. Any doubt upon this point shall be settled by the decision of the Court.

6. Judges chosen as laid down in paragraphs 2, 3, and 4 of this Article shall fulfill the conditions required by Articles 2, 17 (paragraph 2), 20, and 24 of the present Statute. They shall take part in the decision on terms of complete equality with their colleagues.


Article 32

1. Each member of the Court shall receive an annual salary.

2. The President shall receive a special annual allowance.

3. The Vice-President shall receive a special allowance for every day on which he acts as President.

4. The judges chosen under Article 31, other than members of the Court, shall receive compensation for each day on which they exercise their functions.

5. These salaries, allowances, and compensation shall be fixed by the General Assembly. They may not be decreased during the term of office.

6. The salary of the Registrar shall be fixed by the General Assembly on the proposal of the Court.

7. Regulations made by the General Assembly shall fix the conditions under which retirement pensions may be given to members of the Court and to the Registrar, and the conditions under which members of the Court and the Registrar shall have their travelling expenses refunded.

8. The above salaries, allowances, and compensation shall be free of all taxation.


Article 33

The expenses of the Court shall be borne by the United Nations in such a manner as shall be decided by the General Assembly.



CHAPTER II - COMPETENCE OF THE COURT


Article 34

1. Only states may be parties in cases before the Court.

2. The Court, subject to and in conformity with its Rules, may request of public international organizations information relevant to cases before it, and shall receive such information presented by such organizations on their own initiative.

3. Whenever the construction of the constituent instrument of a public international organization or of an international convention adopted thereunder is in question in a case before the Court, the Registrar shall so notify the public international organization concerned and shall communicate to it copies of all the written proceedings.


Article 35

1. The Court shall be open to the states parties to the present Statute.

2. The conditions under which the Court shall be open to other states shall, subject to the special provisions contained in treaties in force, be laid down by the States Members, but in no case shall such conditions place the parties in a position of inequality before the Court.

3. When a state which is not a Member of the United Nations is a party to a case, the Court shall fix the amount which that party is to contribute towards the expenses of the Court. This provision shall not apply if such state is bearing a share of the expenses of the Court


Article 36

1. The jurisdiction of the Court comprises all cases which the parties refer to it and all matters specially provided for in the Charter of the United Nations or in treaties and conventions in force.

2. The states parties to the present Statute may at any time declare that they recognize as compulsory ipso facto and without special agreement, in relation to any other state accepting the same obligation, the jurisdiction of the Court in all legal disputes concerning:

a. the interpretation of a treaty;

b. any question of international law;

c. the existence of any fact which, if established, would constitute a breach of an international obligation;

d. the nature or extent of the reparation to be made for the breach of an international obligation.

3. The declarations referred to above may be made unconditionally or on condition of reciprocity on the part of several or certain states, or for a certain time.

4. Such declarations shall be deposited with the Secretary-General of the United Nations, who shall transmit copies thereof to the parties to the Statute and to the Registrar of the Court.

5. In the event of a dispute as to whether the Court has jurisdiction, the matter shall be settled by the decision of the Court.


Article 37

Every past jurisdictional body was replaced by the International Court of Justice.


Article 38

1. The Court, whose function is to decide in accordance with international law such disputes as are submitted to it, shall apply:

a. international conventions, whether general or particular, establishing rules expressly recognized by the contesting states;

b. international custom, as evidence of a general practice accepted as law;

c. the general principles of law recognized by civilized nations;

d. subject to the provisions of Article 59, judicial decisions and the teachings of the most highly qualified publicists of the various nations, as subsidiary means for the determination of rules of law.

2. This provision shall not prejudice the power of the Court to decide a case ex aequo et bono, if the parties agree thereto.



CHAPTER III - PROCEDURE


Article 39

1. The official languages of the Court shall be French and English. If the parties agree that the case shall be conducted in French, the judgment shall be delivered in French. If the parties agree that the case shall be conducted in English, the judgment shall be delivered in English.

2. In the absence of an agreement as to which language shall be employed, each party may, in the pleadings, use the language which it prefers; the decision of the Court shall be given in French and English. In this case the Court shall at the same time determine which of the two texts shall be considered as authoritative.

3. The Court shall, at the request of any party, authorize a language other than French or English to be used by that party.


Article 40

1. Cases are brought before the Court, as the case may be, either by the notification of the special agreement or by a written application addressed to the Registrar. In either case the subject of the dispute and the parties shall be indicated.

2. The Registrar shall forthwith communicate the application to all concerned.

3. He shall also notify the Members of the United Nations through the Secretary-General, and also any other states entitled to appear before the Court.


Article 41

1. The Court shall have the power to indicate, if it considers that circumstances so require, any provisional measures which ought to be taken to preserve the respective rights of either party.

2. Pending the final decision, notice of the measures suggested shall forthwith be given to the parties.


Article 42

1. The parties shall be represented by agents.

2. They may have the assistance of counsel or advocates before the Court.

3. The agents, counsel, and advocates of parties before the Court shall enjoy the privileges and immunities necessary to the independent exercise of their duties.


Article 43

1. The procedure shall consist of two parts: written and oral.

2. The written proceedings shall consist of the communication to the Court and to the parties of memorials, counter-memorials and, if necessary, replies; also all papers and documents in support.

3. These communications shall be made through the Registrar, in the order and within the time fixed by the Court.

4. A certified copy of every document produced by one party shall be communicated to the other party.

5. The oral proceedings shall consist of the hearing by the Court of witnesses, experts, agents, counsel, and advocates.


Article 44

1. For the service of all notices upon persons other than the agents, counsel, and advocates, the Court shall apply direct to the government of the state upon whose territory the notice has to be served.

2. The same provision shall apply whenever steps are to be taken to procure evidence on the spot.


Article 45

The hearing shall be under the control of the President or, if he is unable to preside, of the Vice-President; if neither is able to preside, the senior judge present shall preside.


Article 46

The hearing in Court shall be public, unless the Court shall decide otherwise, or unless the parties demand that the public be not admitted .


Article 47

1. Minutes shall be made at each hearing and signed by the Registrar and the President.

2. These minutes alone shall be authentic.


Article 48

The Court shall make orders for the conduct of the case, shall decide the form and time in which each party must conclude its arguments, and make all arrangements connected with the taking of evidence.


Article 49

The Court may, even before the hearing begins, call upon the agents to produce any document or to supply any explanations. Formal note shall be taken of any refusal.


Article 50

The Court may, at any time, entrust any individual, body, bureau, commission, or other organization that it may select, with the task of carrying out an enquiry or giving an expert opinion.


Article 51

During the hearing any relevant questions are to be put to the witnesses and experts under the conditions laid down by the Court in the rules of procedure referred to in Article 30.


Article 52

After the Court has received the proofs and evidence within the time specified for the purpose, it may refuse to accept any further oral or written evidence that one party may desire to present unless the other side consents.


Article 53

1. Whenever one of the parties does not appear before the Court, or fails to defend its case, the other party may call upon the Court to decide in favour of its claim.

2. The Court must, before doing so, satisfy itself, not only that it has jurisdiction in accordance with Articles 36 and 37, but also that the claim is well founded in fact and law.


Article 54

1. When, subject to the control of the Court, the agents, counsel, and advocates have completed their presentation of the case, the President shall declare the hearing closed.

2. The Court shall withdraw to consider the judgment.

3. The deliberations of the Court shall take place in private and remain secret.


Article 55

1. All questions shall be decided by a majority of the judges present.

2. In the event of an equality of votes, the President or the judge who acts in his place shall have a casting vote.


Article 56

1. The judgment shall state the reasons on which it is based.

2. It shall contain the names of the judges who have taken part in the decision.


Article 57

If the judgment does not represent in whole or in part the unanimous opinion of the judges, any judge shall be entitled to deliver a separate opinion.


Article 58

The judgment shall be signed by the President and by the Registrar. It shall be read in open court, due notice having been given to the agents.


Article 59

The decision of the Court has no binding force except between the parties and in respect of that particular case.


Article 60

The judgment is final and without appeal. In the event of dispute as to the meaning or scope of the judgment, the Court shall construe it upon the request of any party.


Article 61

1. An application for revision of a judgment may be made only when it is based upon the discovery of some fact of such a nature as to be a decisive factor, which fact was, when the judgment was given, unknown to the Court and also to the party claiming revision, always provided that such ignorance was not due to negligence.

2. The proceedings for revision shall be opened by a judgment of the Court expressly recording the existence of the new fact, recognizing that it has such a character as to lay the case open to revision, and declaring the application admissible on this ground.

3. The Court may require previous compliance with the terms of the judgment before it admits proceedings in revision.

4. The application for revision must be made at latest within six months of the discovery of the new fact.

5. No application for revision may be made after the lapse of ten years from the date of the judgment.


Article 62

l. Should a state consider that it has an interest of a legal nature which may be affected by the decision in the case, it may submit a request to the Court to be permitted to intervene.

2 It shall be for the Court to decide upon this request.


Article 63

1. Whenever the construction of a convention to which states other than those concerned in the case are parties is in question, the Registrar shall notify all such states forthwith.

2. Every state so notified has the right to intervene in the proceedings; but if it uses this right, the construction given by the judgment will be equally binding upon it.


Article 64

Unless otherwise decided by the Court, each party shall bear its own costs.

Too long. Goes well, well, well beyond the word limit.

Also I don't know if we have a secretary general :}

Too long. Goes well, well, well beyond the word limit.


Too short! Too long!

My goodness. I actually think that this is a good step toward establishing a judicial organ which can give reasonable interpretation to the laws. I think this draft tackles several important issues such a court is likely to encounter. I applaud Real Sylvania's foresight and effort to create such a court. As I consider this draft more carefully, I will post any additional thoughts I may have. For now, bravo!

Too short! Too long!

My goodness. I actually think that this is a good step toward establishing a judicial organ which can give reasonable interpretation to the laws. I think this draft tackles several important issues such a court is likely to encounter. I applaud Real Sylvania's foresight and effort to create such a court. As I consider this draft more carefully, I will post any additional thoughts I may have. For now, bravo!

That is as maybe - but if the proposal is over 3,500 characters, it will not fit in the submission box so it can not be submitted.

So while it may deal with a lot of points in detail and do a good job of it, it is safe to say that at 19,263 characters (without spaces) and 23,604 characters (with spaces) it is NEVER going to reach the UN in this state.

(It is between 5 and 7 times too long by the way. So it is also safe to say a vast majority of it will have to be removed).

I see. Well, I guess Real Sylvania has a round of editing to do... maybe we can suggest portions of the draft that are not as essential to the project the proposal is intended to accomplish. :)

I see. Well, I guess Real Sylvania has a round of editing to do... maybe we can suggest portions of the draft that are not as essential to the project the proposal is intended to accomplish. :)

Editing is always fun. The Eon Convention went from around 5000 to 3,498 before it was submitted, and it took a lot of fiddling to get it to that point :}

I will be happy to lend my services or advice should they be required :}

The International Court of Political Persecution, huh?

Tell me, why would we want to even pretend we had one in NationStates?

It's a terrible idea in RL, it's a worse idea in RP'ing - if one were actually set up on this server, what would you do with it?

Oppress the noobs. Oppress the unpopular.

Actually, that is pretty much what the RL ICJ is for.

Thank to all for infos. I have re- edit the proposal, this is a first version

§ 1

The International Court of Justice, established as the principal judicial organ of the UN, shall be constituted and shall function in accordance with the provisions of the present Statute.



I - ORGANIZATION


§ 2 - Composition

1. The Court shall be composed by independent judges, elected from among persons of high moral character, or jurisconsults of recognized competence in international law.
2. The Court shall consist of 15 members, no 2 of whom may be from the same state.
3. The members shall enjoy diplomatic privileges and immunities.
4. The Court shall elect its President, Vice-President and Registrar for 3 years; they may be re-elected.
5. Each member shall receive an annual salary, fixed by the General Assembly.


§ 3 - Elections

1. The members shall be elected by the General Assembly.
2. 3 months before the election, the Registrar shall address a written request to the General Assembly, inviting it to undertake the nomination; each State member must consult its highest court of justice.
3. Those candidates who obtain an absolute majority of votes shall be considered as elected.


§ 4 - Mandate

1. The members shall be elected for 9 years and may be re-elected.
2. The members shall continue to discharge their duties until their places have been filled. Though replaced, they shall finish any cases which they may have begun.
3. No member may exercise any political or administrative function, or engage in any other occupation of a professional nature like agent, counsel, or advocate.



II - COMPETENCE


§ 5 - Parties of the process

1. Only states may be parties in cases before the Court.
2. The Court may request of public international organizations information relevant to cases before it.


§ 6 - Jurisdiction

1. The jurisdiction in all legal disputes concerning:
a. the interpretation of a treaty;
b. any question of international law;
c. the breach of an international obligation.
2. Every past jurisdictional UN body shall be replaced by the International Court of Justice.
3. The Court shall apply:
a. international conventions;
b. international custom;
c. the general principles of law.



III - PROCEDURE


§ 7 - Documents

1. The official languages shall be French and English, but the Court shall authorize the use of other languages.
2. The written proceedings shall consist of the communication to the Court and to the parties of memorials and counter-memorials.


§ 8 – Delegation of the parties

The parties shall be represented by agents, with the assistance of counsel or advocates before the Court. They shall enjoy the privileges and immunities necessary to the independent exercise of their duties.


§ 9 - Hearing

1. The oral proceedings shall consist of the hearing by the Court of witnesses, experts, agents, counsel, and advocates.
2. The hearing in Court shall be public.
3. During the hearing any relevant questions are to be put to the witnesses and experts.
4. After the Court has received the proofs and evidence within the time specified for the purpose, it may refuse to accept any further evidence.
6. When the agents, counsel, and advocates have completed their presentation of the case, the President shall declare the hearing closed.
7. The Court shall withdraw to consider the judgment.


§ 10 - Judgement

1. The deliberations shall take place in private and remain secret.
2. The judgment shall state the reasons on which it is based. It shall contain the names of the judges who have taken part in the decision. It shall be read in open court.
3. The judgment is final and without appeal.

What do you think?

That's pretty good, though I would advise that you should make it clear that the ICJ only has jurisdiction over matters involving UN members, and where non-UN members are involved, they would have to consent to abide by any rulings before the court could be involved. I would also check with a mod before you submit it to check that it's all within the boundaries of the game rules.

Ok - there is a problem with this.


§ 6 - Jurisdiction

1. The jurisdiction in all legal disputes concerning:
a. the interpretation of a treaty;
b. any question of international law;
c. the breach of an international obligation.
2. Every past jurisdictional UN body shall be replaced by the International Court of Justice.
3. The Court shall apply:
a. international conventions;
b. international custom;
c. the general principles of law.


If this section is fully applied, it would amend or repeal entirely the Eon Convention on Genocide, as that has it's own Panel to deal with crimes of Genocide.

And thus the proposal would be illegal under game rules, as it is trying to modify or repeal another resolution while that resolution is still in force.

So either you exempt The Eon Convention specifically, or - and this is more complicated track - you can argue that The Pretenama Panel (the body set up in the Convention) is not a UN body since it is made up of member nations and not anyone who works for the UN).

But I really would ask a moderator to rule on this point, because I would hate to see one line of the whole thing cause it to be deleted for game mechanics violations :}

---------------------------------------------------

And in general there is a danger that the court could be severely biased. If you elect someone for nine years that means if a case comes up involving their country are they permitted to recuse themselves? Because if they are deliberating as to whether or not someone from their nation gets punished, there will be accusations of bias flying all over the place.

I have request to moderators if it's ok, and it is. So, I have re-posted it as proposal.

This is a wonderful redraft. I very much like the foresignt driving this proposal.

A few suggestions/comments:

§2, cl. 1 –

“elected from among persons of high moral character, or jurisconsults of recognized competence in international law.”

I should think that the judges she be both of high moral character and of recognized competence.

§3, cl. 2 –

What to do if a nation does not have a “highest court of justice,” or any recognizable judiciary at all?

§4, cl. 3

This forbids a judge to undertake a second job, but the proposal only says that pay will be fixed by the general assembly. (§3, cl. 5). Thus, the General Assembly could effectively force judges to resign if they set a ridiculously low salary, since judges could not work elsewhere to meet their daily needs. Whether or not this is a desirable power may be worth considering; there may be something to be said for having judges who are somewhat insulated from political pressures which motivate the General Assembly. One way to address this is with relatively long terms (e.g., 9 years, under the current draft); yet another is via a guaranteed minimum compensation.

§5, cl. 1

Who may bring a suit on the behalf of a state? Might a citizen (not affiliated with the government) do this?

§6

Concurrent jurisdiction – in a case where both the UN and the courts of a member state claim concurrent jurisdiction, whose decision is to be regarded as binding? That of the UN’s court, or that of the member state?

§6, cl. 3

I would suggest adding that the court should be able to apply the law of member states, if that law is relevant to resolving a dispute between two member states.

I agree with the comments of both Cascadia Atlanticus and TilEnca. You really do need to do something about the conflict with the Eon Convention with the next draft - the mods may not have thought of it when they checked your proposal over.

Possible rewriting:

§2
1.The Court shall be composed by independent judges,elected from among persons of high moral character and recognized competence in international law.
5. Each member shall receive an annual salary,fixed by the General Assembly(GA) but at least twice of average national salary.

§3
2.3 months before the election,the Registrar shall address a written request to the GA,inviting it to undertake the nomination;each Member is recommended to consult its highest court and its legal faculties.

§5-Jurisdiction (ex 6)
1.The jurisdiction comprises all cases which the parties refer to it and all matters provided for in treaties and conventions in force, and concerning:
a.the interpretation of a treaty;
b.any question of international law;
c.the breach of an international obligation.

About concurrent jurisdiction: it's impossible that another country could be a part of a process in a country: the process will be not fair, also because the court will be more probably from the prosecutor state.

About the use of a state law: I think that this option is too dangerous: one of the party could say that it not recognize the sentence because is based on a national law and not on international right.

§6 (old 5): yes, only a state could be a party and the Delegation article says who could be its representative.

Finally, about EON convention, I think that the replacement could be good. An an amedment is not necessary, because this resolution is successive of it.

(changed I tags to B tags so they show up in quotes. That is all the editing I did)

Possible rewriting:

§2
1.The Court shall be composed by independent judges,elected from among persons of high moral character and recognized competence in international law.
5. Each member shall receive an annual salary,fixed by the General Assembly(GA) but at least twice of average national salary.


Sounds fair enough. Except does that mean each person could be paid differently? That is - is it twice the average national salary of the nation the person comes from, or the average national salary across the UN?
And even given that, judges (as a rule) earn quite a lot more than (for example) bin men, because being a judge is a lot harder to achieve. So their salary will quite possibly already be more than twice the national average, and this would require them to take a pay-cut.


§3
2.3 months before the election,the Registrar shall address a written request to the GA,inviting it to undertake the nomination;each Member is recommended to consult its highest court and its legal faculties.



§5-Jurisdiction (ex 6)
1.The jurisdiction comprises all cases which the parties refer to it and all matters provided for in treaties and conventions in force, and concerning:
a.the interpretation of a treaty;
b.any question of international law;
c.the breach of an international obligation.


Yeah - I have no idea what any of this means. Sorry :}


About concurrent jurisdiction: it's impossible that another country could be a part of a process in a country: the process will be not fair, also because the court will be more probably from the prosecutor state.


Which is a problem I think I raised already - there is no process in the proposal for someone to recuse themselves to avoid any accusations of bias.


About the use of a state law: I think that this option is too dangerous: one of the party could say that it not recognize the sentence because is based on a national law and not on international right.


That much I agree on :}


Finally, about EON convention, I think that the replacement could be good. An an amedment is not necessary, because this resolution is successive of it.

According to the game rules, it isn't. You are amending part of The EON Convention, because you are taking the power to try genocide crimes out of the hands of The Pretenama Panel, which changes the entire Convention.

If you can phrase it as such that genocide is not a matter for this court, then it would not be in violation. Otherwise it is in contravention of the game rules, regardless of how well intentioned it is :}

The International Court of Political Persecution, huh?

Tell me, why would we want to even pretend we had one in NationStates?

It's a terrible idea in RL, it's a worse idea in RP'ing - if one were actually set up on this server, what would you do with it?

Oppress the noobs. Oppress the unpopular.

Actually, that is pretty much what the RL ICJ is for.
OOC: Cobblers. Only nations with complete disrespect for international justice object to the ICC.

Sounds fair enough. Except does that mean each person could be paid differently? That is - is it twice the average national salary of the nation the person comes from, or the average national salary across the UN?
And even given that, judges (as a rule) earn quite a lot more than (for example) bin men, because being a judge is a lot harder to achieve. So their salary will quite possibly already be more than twice the national average, and this would require them to take a pay-cut.


Problem is serious. It could be choised between twice of the national average for judge and the maximum salary of the last work of nominateds.



Which is a problem I think I raised already - there is no process in the proposal for someone to recuse themselves to avoid any accusations of bias.


Could be the first version of #5 and
4. Every national tribunal shall be replaced by the ICJ if it process the same case.





According to the game rules, it isn't. You are amending part of The EON Convention, because you are taking the power to try genocide crimes out of the hands of The Pretenama Panel, which changes the entire Convention.

If you can phrase it as such that genocide is not a matter for this court, then it would not be in violation. Otherwise it is in contravention of the game rules, regardless of how well intentioned it is :}

I dislike this, but I must accept this limitation for ICJ. :(

Could be the first version of #5 and
4. Every national tribunal shall be replaced by the ICJ if it process the same case.


Right!! Sorry - I am having trouble understanding some of what you write, so I might be suggesting things that are already there. Please forgive me :}


I dislike this, but I must accept this limitation for ICJ. :(

(smile)

and about salaries?

and about salaries?


I think it somewhat undesribable if one judge receives a different salary than another (it could erode the comraderie among the judges of the court) -- to fix this, you might have a provision that, once a judge is appointed, his salary can never be decresed during his term of office. And you might even provide the first salary amount (say, $250,000 British Pounds, or the equivalent thereof). Thus, the salary of judges could not be vengefully decreased by the UN, averting the policy problem we had earlier identified.

About concurrent jurisdiction: it's impossible that another country could be a part of a process in a country: the process will be not fair, also because the court will be more probably from the prosecutor state.


What I meant about concurrent jurisdiction is that some Member states probably authorize their courts to hear some of the same kinds of cases that the ICJ would be authorized to hear. What would the ICJ do, then, if a Member state issued a contradictory judgment on the exact same issue, under the exact same law. Should you make it explicit that the ICJ's decision is to control in a situation where conflicting decisions are rendered where the ICJ and member states have concurrent jurisdiction?

I think it somewhat undesribable if one judge receives a different salary than another (it could erode the comraderie among the judges of the court) -- to fix this, you might have a provision that, once a judge is appointed, his salary can never be decresed during his term of office. And you might even provide the first salary amount (say, $250,000 British Pounds, or the equivalent thereof). Thus, the salary of judges could not be vengefully decreased by the UN, averting the policy problem we had earlier identified.

It was my idea, but it could be wrong: it could be good for judges coming from poor states, but not so good for whealter one.

It was my idea, but it could be wrong: it could be good for judges coming from poor states, but not so good for whealter one.

Oh, just a suggestion. I think that twice the average annual salary as a minimum would definitely sufficiently address the problem we talked about earlier. :)

I dislike this, but I must accept this limitation for ICJ. :(

How about the phrase "It will rule on conventions, treatiest and so forth, except where an existing international body already deals with the issues". This would mean it would cover everything that woudl be set up in the future, and everything now, but would not interfere with the operation of The Panel in cases of genocide.

Or you could have a specific clause saying that the ICJ will not have jurisdiction over matters pertaining to the Eon Convention and that such matters will be dealt with according to thaat resolution.

Two other issues to consider:

1. To what extent could the General Assembly override a decision of the ICJ?
Could it do so only by enacting a general law that would apply to future cases, or might the GA have the power to specifically undo/modify the result in a case in which a final judgement has already been rendered by the ICJ?

2. Should there be a restriction in the evidentiary section, stating that the Court could not consider evidence obtained in violation of UN law?

OOC: Cobblers. Only nations with complete disrespect for international justice object to the ICC.
There is no such thing as international justice. The ICC was created to smack down the jews.

But I think you and I both made a mistake here. I think this resolution is an attempt to recreate the ICJ, not the ICC.

Two other issues to consider:

1. To what extent could the General Assembly override a decision of the ICJ?
Could it do so only by enacting a general law that would apply to future cases, or might the GA have the power to specifically undo/modify the result in a case in which a final judgement has already been rendered by the ICJ?

2. Should there be a restriction in the evidentiary section, stating that the Court could not consider evidence obtained in violation of UN law?

Actually it the GA can refuse the ICJ judgments, the Court shall be void body.

I think that this is covered by the last article, no?

There is no such thing as international justice. The ICC was created to smack down the jews.

But I think you and I both made a mistake here. I think this resolution is an attempt to recreate the ICJ, not the ICC.
Fair enough on the latter comment. On the former comment, I amend my previous assertion of 'cobblers' to 'offensive cobblers'.

Actually it the GA can refuse the ICJ judgments, the Court shall be void body.

I think that this is covered by the last article, no?

So I suppose the resolution needs to say that the court's decisions are final. The last article, which provides as follows, doesn't really address this point, in my opinion:

Article 5

1. The General Assembly or the Security Council may request the International Court of Justice to give an advisory opinion on any legal question.

2. Other organs of the United Nations and specialized agencies, which may at any time be so authorized by the General Assembly, may also request advisory opinions of the Court on legal questions arising within the scope of their activities.

All this does is authorize certain bodies to ask for an advisory opinion (which might be non binding, since it is merely advisory). In any event, it does not seem to address the issue whether the GA may revise the Court's opinion in any particular case.

Actuall I said the last article of the re-writed text:

§10-Judgement
1.The deliberations shall take place in private and remain secret.
2.The judgment shall state the reasons on which it is based.It shall contain the names of the judges who have taken part in the decision.It shall be read in open court.
3.The judgment is final and without appeal.

Actuall I said the last article of the re-writed text:

§10-Judgement
3.The judgment is final and without appeal.


I see. My apologies. I assume "appeal" refers to an appeal in another court, so it might not speak to the issue as to whether the GA can reverse a judgment. The language about "the judgment is final" might mean that the GA could not reverse its judgment, I suppose. I think this is the fair reading of the text. This is quite good!

Freedonia submitted a proposal with this name this week. Looks like the same proposal too.

It's expiring tonight.

Here's the list of delegates who approved it this time around:
Approvals: 65 (Free Garza, High Spiritus, Gaiah, Markodonia, Monadnock, One North, The Wild Cards, JayRoddia, La Commune Quebecoise, WZ Forums, Novostrano, Cihlar, Dragunovia, Yew Island, Darkwater9, Metal Poets, Windleheim, Republic of Freedonia, DougIsGodLand, Lisknatsiya, Incarnatia, JCJC, Kamikachidonia, Al-Zar, Elomeras, Catanacia, Saysomething, New Lochaber, Kevin Islands, Bloodmoon-Hyperion, New Akana, Noxx, Looplyness, Melloway, Moonriders, GizzmoAsus, Tycholand, New Endenia, Nargopia, Dafidutopia, Saint Les, Khanrad, Adlartok, Kerchopia, Mikexstudios, Beeradvocatestan, El Cuhnto, Constitutionals, Grumioland, Dizziness, Grim Talents, Sillyanian, Trashcitron, The Elysian HolyEmpire, Baudrillard, Ossaca, The Marine Infantry, JFriends, Acirema Detinu, Rosssophie, Solaris X, Ameliastan, Zhukhistan, Pettorano, Asshelmetta)

Freedonia submitted a proposal with this name this week. Looks like the same proposal too.

It's expiring tonight.

Here's the list of delegates who approved it this time around:
Approvals: 65 (Free Garza, High Spiritus, Gaiah, Markodonia, Monadnock, One North, The Wild Cards, JayRoddia, La Commune Quebecoise, WZ Forums, Novostrano, Cihlar, Dragunovia, Yew Island, Darkwater9, Metal Poets, Windleheim, Republic of Freedonia, DougIsGodLand, Lisknatsiya, Incarnatia, JCJC, Kamikachidonia, Al-Zar, Elomeras, Catanacia, Saysomething, New Lochaber, Kevin Islands, Bloodmoon-Hyperion, New Akana, Noxx, Looplyness, Melloway, Moonriders, GizzmoAsus, Tycholand, New Endenia, Nargopia, Dafidutopia, Saint Les, Khanrad, Adlartok, Kerchopia, Mikexstudios, Beeradvocatestan, El Cuhnto, Constitutionals, Grumioland, Dizziness, Grim Talents, Sillyanian, Trashcitron, The Elysian HolyEmpire, Baudrillard, Ossaca, The Marine Infantry, JFriends, Acirema Detinu, Rosssophie, Solaris X, Ameliastan, Zhukhistan, Pettorano, Asshelmetta)

It was because I have resign the UN membership in order to become a puppet state of Republic of Freedonia :)

It was because I have resign the UN membership in order to become a puppet state of Republic of Freedonia :)

and the approvals were

Approvals: 77 (Free Garza, High Spiritus, Gaiah, Markodonia, Monadnock, One North, The Wild Cards, JayRoddia, La Commune Quebecoise, WZ Forums, Novostrano, Cihlar, Dragunovia, Yew Island, Darkwater9, Metal Poets, Windleheim, Republic of Freedonia, DougIsGodLand, Lisknatsiya, Incarnatia, JCJC, Kamikachidonia, Al-Zar, Elomeras, Catanacia, Saysomething, New Lochaber, Kevin Islands, Bloodmoon-Hyperion, New Akana, Noxx, Looplyness, Melloway, Moonriders, GizzmoAsus, Tycholand, New Endenia, Nargopia, Dafidutopia, Saint Les, Khanrad, Adlartok, Kerchopia, Mikexstudios, Beeradvocatestan, El Cuhnto, Constitutionals, Grumioland, Dizziness, Grim Talents, Sillyanian, Trashcitron, The Elysian HolyEmpire, Ossaca, The Marine Infantry, JFriends, Acirema Detinu, Rosssophie, Solaris X, Ameliastan, Zhukhistan, Pettorano, Draeshde, Cockeysville, Asshelmetta, Aztec National League, Carolans, Rotovia, Oniram, Yelda, Hocktopia, Italia di Luigi, Fluffy Kitty Kats, D2b, Mikodom, Oppresive Headaches)

So are we going to collaborate on a telegramming campaign or what?

How does this proposal affect The Pretenama Panel?

It says only states may be parties, but it also claims jurisdiction over genocide.

§ 6 - Jurisdiction

2. Every past jurisdictional UN body shall be replaced by the International Court of Justice.

Can you really do that?

Just throw Pretenama out the door without repealing EON??

There was another draft that mentioned that it excluded past bodies, so it would not interfere with The Convention.

Or at least I think there was - maybe I was dreaming :}

This was the last re-edit proposal, and EON commitee is safe.

§1
The International Court of Justice,established as the principal judicial organ of the UN,shall be constituted and shall function in accordance with the provisions of the present Statute.

I-ORGANIZATION

§2-Composition
1.The Court shall be composed by independent judges,elected from among persons of high moral character and recognized competence in international law.
2.The Court shall consist of 15 members,no 2 of whom may be from the same state.
3.The members shall enjoy diplomatic privileges and immunities.
4.The Court shall elect its President,Vice-President and Registrar for 3 years;they may be re-elected.
5.Each member shall receive an annual salary,fixed by the General Assembly(GA) but at least twice of average national judge salary.

§3-Elections
1.The members shall be elected by the GA.
2.3 months before the election,the Registrar shall address a written request to the GA,inviting it to undertake the nomination;each Member is recommended to consult its highest court.
3.Those candidates who obtain an absolute majority of votes shall be considered as elected.

§4-Mandate
1.The members shall be elected for 9 years and may be re-elected.
2.The members shall continue to discharge their duties until their places have been filled.Though replaced,they shall finish any cases which they may have begun.
3.No member may exercise any political or administrative function,or engage in any other occupation of a professional nature.

II-COMPETENCE

§5-Jurisdiction
1.The jurisdiction comprises all cases which the parties refer to it and all matters provided on conventions,treatiest,except where an existing international body already deals with the issues,and:
a.the interpretation of a treaty
b.any question of international law
c.the breach of an international obligation.
2.The Court shall apply:
a.international conventions
b.international custom
c.the general principles of law.

III-PROCEDURE

§6-Parties of the process
1.Only states may be parties in cases before the Court.
2.The Court may request of public international organizations information relevant to cases before it.

§7–Delegation
The parties shall be represented by agents,with the assistance of counsel or advocates before the Court.They shall enjoy the privileges and immunities necessary to the independent exercise of their duties.

§8-Documents
1.The official languages shall be French and English,but the Court shall authorize the use of other languages.
2.The written proceedings shall consist of the communication to the Court and to the parties of memorials and counter-memorials.

§9-Hearing
1.The oral proceedings shall consist of the hearing by the Court of witnesses,experts,agents,counsel,and advocates.
2.The hearing in Court shall be public.
3.During the hearing any relevant questions are to be put to the witnesses and experts.
4.After the Court has received the proofs and evidence within the time specified for the purpose,it may refuse to accept any further evidence.
6.When the agents,counsel,and advocates have completed their presentation of the case,the President shall declare the hearing closed.
7.The Court shall withdraw to consider the judgment.

§10-Judgement
1.The deliberations shall take place in private and remain secret.
2.The judgment shall state the reasons on which it is based,it shall contain the names of the judges andshall be read in open court.
3.The judgment is final and without appeal.

@Nargopia: I'm attending your commands :D

I actually would like the ICJ to replace the Pretenama panels (I spell that differently every time...) for the Humanitarian Intervention resolution, but I don't know if that's possible.

Let me know if you need any help telegramming delegates. I've had lots of practice doing that recently :P

And who sits on the ICJ? I would love to be involved in that. [Edit:] Ah, a vote... (sorry, am at work right now and having to make sneaky little entries here, so can;t really read the full text in one) How would the vote work?

I actually would like the ICJ to replace the Pretenama panels (I spell that differently every time...) for the Humanitarian Intervention resolution, but I don't know if that's possible.

Let me know if you need any help telegramming delegates. I've had lots of practice doing that recently :P

And who sits on the ICJ? I would love to be involved in that. [Edit:] Ah, a vote... (sorry, am at work right now and having to make sneaky little entries here, so can;t really read the full text in one) How would the vote work?

For cases of genocide - not so much. For other things - war crimes etc - yes. (I figure the exact issues can be worked out as they go along)

OOC: This is going to sound really finicky, but why do the official languages have to be French & English? I know of no nation on, for example, the Alçaeran continent that speaks these languages. Do we need to even include a specific language, given that we all get by here in the forums using the magical 'let's just assume we have great translators' approach?

General Assembly? What General Assembly?

I don't see any way to RP this resolution.

Seems like it's basically the enforcers of the Gnomes, anyway.








Uh, so why do we want it? Why do we need it?

@Ecopoeia: which is the problem? With this 2 languages every nation can read the sentence

§8-Documents
1.The official languages shall be French and English,but the Court shall authorize the use of other languages.

@Asshelmetta: obviously the General Assembly of the UN. And the ICJ will be the only body that have the power of ensure the right implementation of all the UN resolutions (with exception of other past control bodies, like EON convention).

OOC: In the real world, English and (debatably) French are dominant languages. In NS... Ecopoeians have enough on thier plate with Celdonian, Caselonian, Paristani, Lengi, Vanu, Nteki, Anshasi, Tavast... the point being, this is unnecessary, since we can pretty much assume that the UN's mysterious translator gnomes have got everything already taken care of. If we are to have specific languages, then only English should be used, since that's what we're communicating in right now.

Like I said, I'm being finicky. I think the clause should be struck completely, but it's only a minor quibble. I lhave no issue with the ICJ itself.

I think that this is a very small problem. BTW, the ICJ proposal is now in the list of UN.

General Assembly? What General Assembly??
General Assembly (http://ns.goobergunch.net/wiki/index.php/General_Assembly) is in fact a term commonly used to describe the voting population of NSUN member nations and UN Regional Delegates.

General Assembly (http://ns.goobergunch.net/wiki/index.php/General_Assembly) is in fact a term commonly used to describe the voting population of NSUN member nations and UN Regional Delegates.
My bad.

I thought it was a RL reference.

I realize that this proposal still has much need for debate and revision before it should be re-submitted. Still, I think that it would be best to get started on the early stages of the telegram campaign now.

I ask for any volunteers to post their intentions here. So far, we have:

Nargopia
Freedonia

I will also get started on a draft of the campaign telegram immediately.

Because it seems that previous proposal violates the game mechanichs, this is the new version. I'm attending a mod reply.

§1
The International Court of Justice,established as the principal judicial organ of the UN,shall be constituted and shall function in accordance with the provisions of the present Statute.

I-ORGANIZATION

§2-Composition
1.The Court shall be composed by independent judges,elected from among persons of high moral character and recognized competence in international law.
2.The Court shall consist of 15 members,no 2 of whom may be from the same state.
3.The members shall enjoy diplomatic privileges and immunities.
4.The Court shall elect its President,Vice-President and Registrar for 3 years;they may be re-elected.
5.Each member shall receive an annual salary at least twice of average national judge salary.


§3-Mandate
1.The members shall be elected for 9 years and may be re-elected.
2.The members shall continue to discharge their duties until their places have been filled.Though replaced,they shall finish any cases which they may have begun.
3.No member may exercise any political or administrative function,or engage in any other occupation of a professional nature.

II-COMPETENCE

§4-Jurisdiction
1.The jurisdiction comprises all cases which the parties refer to it and all matters provided on conventions,treatiest,except where an existing international body already deals with the issues,and:
a.the interpretation of a treaty
b.any question of international law
c.the breach of an international obligation.
2.The Court shall apply:
a.international conventions
b.international custom
c.the general principles of law.

III-PROCEDURE

§5-Parties of the process
1.Only states may be parties in cases before the Court.
2.The Court may request of public international organizations information relevant to cases before it.

§6–Delegation
The parties shall be represented by agents,with the assistance of counsel or advocates before the Court.They shall enjoy the privileges and immunities necessary to the independent exercise of their duties.

§7-Documents
1.The official languages shall be French and English,but the Court shall authorize the use of other languages.
2.The written proceedings shall consist of the communication to the Court and to the parties of memorials and counter-memorials.

§8-Hearing
1.The oral proceedings shall consist of the hearing by the Court of witnesses,experts,agents,counsel,and advocates.
2.The hearing in Court shall be public.
3.During the hearing any relevant questions are to be put to the witnesses and experts.
4.After the Court has received the proofs and evidence within the time specified for the purpose,it may refuse to accept any further evidence.
6.When the agents,counsel,and advocates have completed their presentation of the case,the President shall declare the hearing closed.
7.The Court shall withdraw to consider the judgment.

§9-Judgement
1.The deliberations shall take place in private and remain secret.
2.The judgment shall state the reasons on which it is based,it shall contain the names of the judges andshall be read in open court.
3.The judgment is final and without appeal.

I think this resolution is a good idea, and I apologise if the point raised has been considered before and I have failed to notice - as such this is not criticism but rather a request for explanation.

I'm a bit puzzled by what 'general principles of law' the court should apply in making judgements. There's a lot of general principles across numbers of jurisdictions (in the RL and I would presume in NSworld as well) which are weighed differently from state to state.

Take two rules of natural justice for example, namely the right to a fair hearing and the rule against bias. These are of general application and fairly unambiguous but there is still room for 'own' definitions of what is meant be a fair hearing or what exactly will constitute undue bias. Another very general principle is the rule of law ie that a government can only exercise authority in accordance with written laws. In some jurisdictions this would be offset by devices such as prerogative powers ie an ability to suspend certain rights in the interest of national security.

Another 'general principle' that some jurisdictions uphold is the right to own and enjoy one's own property. In some other jurisdictions, perhaps those that pursue Communist ideals, the right to personal property is non-existent or severely reduced.

I don't think this resolution would benefit from an extensive list of 'principles' to uphold, over-defining legal powers may reduce the independence of a judicial body. However, a reference to where these principles are to be found, even if referred to very generally and very briefly, could help to make this resolution more workable. As it stands, I'm not entirely sure where the judges would start looking...

Perhaps it would be better if the ICJ were to only examine cases involving breaches of resolutions? That way you could get past the whole 'different laws for different places' thing. But you'd need to find a better way of stating that.
Just a suggestion.

The principles adopted will be from international laws (like fair trial resolution)

I'd be happy to help with the telegramming campaign, or in any other way. Just send me a telegram with the details.

I'd be happy to help with the telegramming campaign, or in any other way. Just send me a telegram with the details.

Sure. But I must attend the mods placet.

So now for the telegramming campaign we have

Nargopia
Freedonia
Gwenstefani

Any other volunteers? Pretty please?

Freedonia, have you gotten a reason from the Mods yet?

Freedonia, have you gotten a reason from the Mods yet?

No, for now :(

Due to this using morality as a judgement for elected members, I cannot support and must hold any decisions this court comes to as illogical and not applicable to DLE or any nation it chooses to extend military protection to.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I have ships capable of blowing up planets to build.

Due to this using morality as a judgement for elected members, I cannot support and must hold any decisions this court comes to as illogical and not applicable to DLE or any nation it chooses to extend military protection to.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I have ships capable of blowing up planets to build.

Actually nobody has said that the judgement are binding for the states.

Actually nobody has said that the judgement are binding for the states.

Which is why I won't be using my loophole to get around this.

Final version, approved by Sirocco.

§1
The International Court of Justice,established as the principal judicial organ of the UN,shall be constituted and shall function in accordance with the provisions of the present Statute.

I-ORGANIZATION

§2-Composition
1.The Court shall be composed by independent judges,elected from among persons of high moral character and recognized competence in international law.
2.The Court shall consist of 15 members,no 2 of whom may be from the same state.
3.The members shall enjoy diplomatic privileges and immunities.
4.The Court shall elect its President,Vice-President and Registrar for 3 years;they may be re-elected.
5.Each member shall receive an annual salary at least twice of average national judge salary.


§3-Mandate
1.The members shall be elected for 9 years and may be re-elected.
2.The members shall continue to discharge their duties until their places have been filled.Though replaced,they shall finish any cases which they may have begun.
3.No member may exercise any political or administrative function,or engage in any other occupation of a professional nature.

II-COMPETENCE

§4-Jurisdiction
1.The jurisdiction comprises all cases which the parties refer to it and all matters provided on conventions,treatiest,except where an existing international body already deals with the issues,and:
a.the interpretation of a treaty
b.any question of international law
c.the breach of an international obligation.
2.The Court shall apply:
a.international conventions
b.international custom
c.the general principles of law.

III-PROCEDURE

§5-Parties of the process
1.Only states may be parties in cases before the Court.
2.The Court may request of public international organizations information relevant to cases before it.

§6–Delegation
The parties shall be represented by agents,with the assistance of counsel or advocates before the Court.They shall enjoy the privileges and immunities necessary to the independent exercise of their duties.

§7-Documents
1.The official languages shall be French and English,but the Court shall authorize the use of other languages.
2.The written proceedings shall consist of the communication to the Court and to the parties of memorials and counter-memorials.

§8-Hearing
1.The oral proceedings shall consist of the hearing by the Court of witnesses,experts,agents,counsel,and advocates.
2.The hearing in Court shall be public.
3.During the hearing any relevant questions are to be put to the witnesses and experts.
4.After the Court has received the proofs and evidence within the time specified for the purpose,it may refuse to accept any further evidence.
6.When the agents,counsel,and advocates have completed their presentation of the case,the President shall declare the hearing closed.
7.The Court shall withdraw to consider the judgment.

§9-Judgement
1.The deliberations shall take place in private and remain secret.
2.The judgment shall state the reasons on which it is based,it shall contain the names of the judges andshall be read in open court.
3.The judgment is final and without appeal.

The proposal is now on the floor to be approve.

Remembering to approve it...

On the floor again. 38 approvals achieved for now.

aprovals are not everything, if u no tht ur cause is right keep fighting, and neway make it 39 aprovals i will bak u!

Agree with Myopia

I'll approve it. Again.
As I said somewhere else, I can't guarantee my nation will survive until the proposal expires, because of that brouhaha in moderation.

My region seems likely to survive, though. If I'm deleted, I'll ask whoever takes over as delegate to approve it.

Agree with Myopia

1.The jurisdiction comprises all cases which the parties refer to it and all matters provided on conventions,treatiest,except where an existing international body already deals with the issues,and:

???

I am thinkign that we are needing smaler amounts of articles. 5 is to just mny to read in one go. if they wer short resolusions I would be voting them more often.

I am thinkign that we are needing smaler amounts of articles. 5 is to just mny to read in one go. if they wer short resolusions I would be voting them more often.

Shorter resolutions are usually very poor, my friend. And an important international body like ICJ must be more regulated.

The last list of approving delegate. It seems that the next time we can achieve the qorum! :cool:

Approvals: 128 (The Fro Royal Family, Windleheim, Melmond, Gaiah, Grim Talents, La Havre Du Grace, Reginaslav, Alterina, WZ Forums, Yelda, Steenia, Short Welsh People, Kevin Islands, Ghaard Allamia, Zhukhistan, Outremont, Safj, Monadnock, Beld, Nan Og, North Monaghan, Sclafani, High Spiritus, Evil Woody Thoughts, Limster, Adomenticus, JayRoddia, The Derrak Quadrant, Topple, Ceterusparibus, Klashonite, Kelsennia, Beeradvocatestan, Coco Mango, Velnos, Kyndcat, Yafor 2, Dailar, Americas Liberals, Danabunga, Al-Zar, Darkwater9, Snufflelufflegus Land, Michael 02, Alomogordo, Saysomething, Ceskeland, America---, Contrickster, Predatorica, North Atlantic Nations, Masiania, Orioni 2, Ministria, Knuckles Promised Land, Harkoneia, Tiagra, WoS-Badrang, Gilbekistan, Greater Kamigawa, The Cariebbean, Beach Bay, Markismygod, North Koster, St Kandyland, Tiber City, Tal Maritima, Los Gringos Locos, Northern Caesarea, Borgoa, Dizziness, Little India, Presqu-Isle, Das freie Land, Old Canaan, Nauvus, Amerieurostralia, Alesteria, Naval Snipers, JS Nijmegen, Blijia, The Hollow Eye, Kemdoph, Gamepsilon, The Potatohead Tribe, Frickendevil, The Great Honey Bear, Hado-Kusanagi, Lisknatsiya, Czech Minutemen, Angon, Pop N Music, Cowschickens, Tierra del Queso, Novus Terra Reborn, Hollerback, New Happyworld Land, The Talisman, Green Forrest People, Finbergia, Fenor, Asshelmetta, Aztec National League, Memorial Park, Topheric Knowledge, Maxitron, Jaglor, Mehleesser, Bloodmoon-Hyperion, Ehrenbreitstein, Sameerland, BLARGistania, Hugyland, Democrat Refugees, Schwartzhood, DrexSide, Master Tom, King Charles I, Krioval, Bellulus, The Holy Samurai, Republic of Freedonia, The Dog God, Mad McGobbo, Noobsville, Pantocratoria, Corrumpere, Ballyvolane)

It also refers in Article 1 to the UN charter which is something we don't have.


There is a reason for this, and maybe you are alluding to it. The proposal is a rip from the real UN. United Nations Article 92 The International Court of Justice, to be precise.

Check it out:

http://www.icj-cij.org/icjwww/ibasicdocuments/ibasictext/ibasicunchart.htm#Chapter14

AND/OR:

http://www.un.org/aboutun/charter/chapt14.htm

You should be reading the section entitled: CHAPTER XIV THE INTERNATIONAL COURT OF JUSTICE - Article 92 - 96

It's pretty much verbatim.

There is a reason for this, and maybe you are alluding to it. The proposal is a rip from the real UN. United Nations Article 92 The International Court of Justice, to be precise.

Check it out:

http://www.icj-cij.org/icjwww/ibasicdocuments/ibasictext/ibasicunchart.htm#Chapter14

AND/OR:

http://www.un.org/aboutun/charter/chapt14.htm

You should be reading the section entitled: CHAPTER XIV THE INTERNATIONAL COURT OF JUSTICE - Article 92 - 96

It's pretty much verbatim.
If you're refering to Real Sylvania's proposal on page 1, that's no longer the one under discussion.
Freedonia posted the latest revision on page 5, I think.

Freedonia, maybe next time you submit you should start a new thread. This is confusing.

If you're refering to Real Sylvania's proposal on page 1, that's no longer the one under discussion.
Freedonia posted the latest revision on page 5, I think.

Freedonia, maybe next time you submit you should start a new thread. This is confusing.

So what happened to Real Sylvania's original proposal [I should say, the UN's resolution]?

The representative from Asshelmetta pleads blondness.

A lot has happened in two months... and I have almost no short-term memory retention.

In fact, as we like to say in... ooh! something shiny!

Because there are more idea about the resolution at vote, I remember to you this Old thread. Then, more time ago this proposal was over the table to be improved.