NationStates Jolt Archive

Think this is a pretty good resolution that makes a lot of valid points and set's up something i think we all need. Thoughts? This has been submited and is currently last on the list of proposals.

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Description: All members of the U.N. are to enact legislation allowing for the extradition to other U.N. Member States of persons or individuals convicted of crimes and those avoiding trail to the respective nations where they were convicted or trial is to take place.

To prevent exploitation of this agreement by States that seek to imprison persons or individuals unfairly or without just cause a person may apply for political asylum in a U.N. Member State. Upon asylum being granted the individual will be immune from extradition on a conditional basis. If the individual’s request is denied that individual should be extradited to the nation requesting the extraction as soon as possible. Each Member State will be allowed to setup its own criteria for asylum but the State seeking extradition will be allowed to appeal in the courts of the State granting asylum to justify its case. The State requesting extradition will be allowed one appeal which it can use up until 5 years have passed since extradition was formally requested.

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For far to long individuals have been able to flee to other nations without fear of capture for crimes they have committed elsewhere. Criminals and those fleeing trial should not have the option to run to the nearest border to escape a just trial or imprisonment any longer. Strong action is required to prevent the further exploitation of this situation by those fleeing justice.

It is also necessary to implement the asylum rules and assurances to prevent persons from being unjustly imprisoned by the States they are fleeing. It is also necessary to allow States seeking extradition to appeal asylum to insure that no persons are granted the right unjustly.

I realise that that is most of the text, but as a rule people like to see the whole thing, including the strength and category (As they are important).


Global Extradition Agreement

A resolution to improve world security by boosting police and military budgets.


Category: International Security


Strength: Significant


Proposed by: Ic0n

Description: All members of the U.N. are to enact legislation allowing for the extradition to other U.N. Member States of persons or individuals convicted of crimes and those avoiding trail to the respective nations where they were convicted or trial is to take place.

To prevent exploitation of this agreement by States that seek to imprison persons or individuals unfairly or without just cause a person may apply for political asylum in a U.N. Member State. Upon asylum being granted the individual will be immune from extradition on a conditional basis. If the individual’s request is denied that individual should be extradited to the nation requesting the extraction as soon as possible. Each Member State will be allowed to setup its own criteria for asylum but the State seeking extradition will be allowed to appeal in the courts of the State granting asylum to justify its case. The State requesting extradition will be allowed one appeal which it can use up until 5 years have passed since extradition was formally requested.

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For far to long individuals have been able to flee to other nations without fear of capture for crimes they have committed elsewhere. Criminals and those fleeing trial should not have the option to run to the nearest border to escape a just trial or imprisonment any longer. Strong action is required to prevent the further exploitation of this situation by those fleeing justice.

It is also necessary to implement the asylum rules and assurances to prevent persons from being unjustly imprisoned by the States they are fleeing. It is also necessary to allow States seeking extradition to appeal asylum to insure that no persons are granted the right unjustly.

Approvals: 1 (Real Sylvania)

Status: Lacking Support (requires 144 more approvals)

Voting Ends: Sun Jan 16 2005


I have some questions.

1) Can I refuse extradition if I know, or believe, the person will be executed?
2) Can I refuse extradition if I don't recognize what the person has been accused of as a crime?
3) When it says "Each Member State will be allowed to setup its own criteria for asylum but the State seeking extradition will be allowed to appeal in the courts of the State granting asylum to justify its case" is it the law of the extraditing state that takes effect, or the law of the state seeking extradition?

The last one is more semantic than anything else

4) Is asylum the right word? If I have someone hiding out in my nation, then I can see why they could be extradited. But if they have come to my nation and asked for protection and sanctuary, and I have granted it, it would be a tad unethical for me to then turn them over to someone else.

(I really am just curious about the semantics on that one!)

I think the word you're looking for is "trial".

Currently, Kelssek does not extradite anyone to countries which have the death penalty, even for non-capital offences. Before the introduction of that policy, we did not extradite anyone who was charged with a capital crime.

We're open to this kind of resolution, but there must be a clause allowing us to refuse extradition if there's a chance the person might be executed - a revert to our old policy is as far as we're willing to go. You might also want to redo the format to make it more resolution-y, but I guess this is fine.

We're open to this kind of resolution, but there must be a clause allowing us to refuse extradition if there's a chance the person might be executed - a revert to our old policy is as far as we're willing to go.
Perhaps something saying that the exporting nation has the right to refuse if the receiving nation has a history/trend of executing or human rights abuses?

Think this is a pretty good resolution that makes a lot of valid points and set's up something i think we all need. Thoughts? This has been submited and is currently last on the list of proposals.

It's been tried, and nearly resulted in war between UN members on two occasions. We each have different ideals of extradition. For example, I'll only extradite to nations I trust will extradite criminals I ask for without question, mainly because my nation's policy on extradition is to not ask a question on it and that if they broke a law it was their fault for not bothering to look the laws up in the first place.

As a side note, several antihuman terrorists have taken advantage of that policy and certain nations not extraditing without question to kill people without repercussions. But that's politics for ya.

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Description: All members of the U.N. are to enact legislation allowing for the extradition to other U.N. Member States of persons or individuals convicted of crimes and those avoiding trail to the respective nations where they were convicted or trial is to take place.

So far, interesting.

To prevent exploitation of this agreement by States that seek to imprison persons or individuals unfairly or without just cause a person may apply for political asylum in a U.N. Member State. Upon asylum being granted the individual will be immune from extradition on a conditional basis. If the individual’s request is denied that individual should be extradited to the nation requesting the extraction as soon as possible. Each Member State will be allowed to setup its own criteria for asylum but the State seeking extradition will be allowed to appeal in the courts of the State granting asylum to justify its case. The State requesting extradition will be allowed one appeal which it can use up until 5 years have passed since extradition was formally requested.

So, basically, back to square one. Some nations will use this as an excuse not to extradite to nations they disagree with, while others will actually try to follow the spirit of it.

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For far to long individuals have been able to flee to other nations without fear of capture for crimes they have committed elsewhere. Criminals and those fleeing trial should not have the option to run to the nearest border to escape a just trial or imprisonment any longer. Strong action is required to prevent the further exploitation of this situation by those fleeing justice.

If you want strong action to be taken, then you must either force extradition or watch in tears as nations use the loophole you provided to work around it.

It is also necessary to implement the asylum rules and assurances to prevent persons from being unjustly imprisoned by the States they are fleeing. It is also necessary to allow States seeking extradition to appeal asylum to insure that no persons are granted the right unjustly.

Applying to the courts of the nation granting extradition is going to prevent it being used unjustly how? Let me show you how this will work.

Someone from Kelssek comes into DLE and commits murder, managing to escape back to Kelssek before the crime is discovered. Once there, Enigma requests extradition and, with it being well known that DLE has the death penalty, Kelssek refuses by granting asylum. Enigma appeals, loses the appeal, and decides to let what happened be publically known. A disgruntled DLE citizen who's family member was the victim "borrows" a thermonuclear bomb from DLE warehouses, sneaks into Kelssek, and blows up the capital city in protest to the decision. He, of course, escapes with the help of "rogue" elements of the DLE military. He then immediately applies to asylum in one of the four nations that make up the DLE empire and is granted it immediately. Kelssek asks for extradition, gets turned down, appeals, and finds Enigma denying it with some flimsy excuse and an attitude that it is really their fault it happened. The next time a Kelssek citizen tries to enter DLE, he or she is shot by citizens for being from a terrorist nation. Of course, that is perfectly legal, and thus no extradition happens because no actual crime was committed.

If Kelssek wants to take it further, they find all attempts at using the UN will come out to be futile (the majority of the DLE Empire is not in the UN and, thus, immune to its laws if Enigma so chooses) and, in annoyance, sends a military strike against DLE holdings on Earth. The DLE military responds by suppressing the military in Kelssek with antimatter and plasma weaponry from high orbit, effectively irradiating the entire nation and portions of surrounding nations. If the entire people die as a result, it is merely an unintended side effect of the weapons deemed necessary to successfully suppress a hostile force attacking unarmed civilians.

What is most likely to happen is Kelssek will forbid its citizens from comming into DLE, which will not result in any of the above, upon the passing of this. Of course, Sarkarasetans wouldn't visit Kelssek (remember: racial ego) without a good reason anyway.

Actually, we wouldn't be granting the guy "asylum", because I take it you're assuming he is a citizen or a resident in Kelssek, and they don't need to be granted asylum to enter the country. It's also surprisingly hard to smuggle nuclear bombs through a border guarded with fences and checkpoints ("What's that big metal thing with radiation stickers on it that keeps setting off our explosives detector?" "Oh, this?... Nothing."), and the current government is pacifist, so they wouldn't be attacking anything, and it also has ubertech friends. But... I think your point is made.

Actually, we wouldn't be granting the guy "asylum", because I take it you're assuming he is a citizen or a resident in Kelssek, and they don't need to be granted asylum to enter the country. It's also surprisingly hard to smuggle nuclear bombs through a border guarded with fences and checkpoints ("What's that big metal thing with radiation stickers on it that keeps setting off our explosives detector?" "Oh, this?... Nothing."), and the current government is pacifist, so they wouldn't be attacking anything, and it also has ubertech friends. But... I think your point is made.

Unless you put fences in space, it's easy for anyone from my nation to sneak anything they want in and out of your nation.

Also, the way its worded, you either grant him asylum or turn him over to me. Those are your options.

Also, the way its worded, you either grant him asylum or turn him over to me. Those are your options.

But what if I was wanted for a crime in GeminiLand, and came to hide in your nation? When I cross the border (or through customs of whatever you have) you might not know then that I was wanted, and only find out later. So you would not have granted me asylum, even though I was hiding in your nation.

I think that was what Kelssek was going for (but do correct me if I am wrong!)

But what if I was wanted for a crime in GeminiLand, and came to hide in your nation? When I cross the border (or through customs of whatever you have) you might not know then that I was wanted, and only find out later. So you would not have granted me asylum, even though I was hiding in your nation.

Assuming you are speaking of a TilEncan citizen, GeminiLand would be upset with me for turning over a dead body. Don't forget my citizens are still upset with your nation over the last time this came up.

But, assuming you are from some other nation that isn't likely to get you killed, I would probably discuss GeminiLand's policies regarding extradition before I turned you over. If they wanted to get pushy, I'd grant asylum on GP and respond with plasma cannons to their demands.

Was going to wade in on this but I think DLE has covered the main problem. So long as some countries have the death penalty and others don't, extradition is going to be a problem, UN resolution or no.

Assuming you are speaking of a TilEncan citizen, GeminiLand would be upset with me for turning over a dead body. Don't forget my citizens are still upset with your nation over the last time this came up.


Hey - I said sorry for that. Besides - I have had a hair cut since then. You wouldn't recognize me :}


But, assuming you are from some other nation that isn't likely to get you killed, I would probably discuss GeminiLand's policies regarding extradition before I turned you over. If they wanted to get pushy, I'd grant asylum on GP and respond with plasma cannons to their demands.

Which is fair and just (from a certain point of view!)

Unless you put fences in space, it's easy for anyone from my nation to sneak anything they want in and out of your nation.

The Air Force would get pretty interested in unidentified, unauthorised spacecraft entering our airspace. "Get the SAM bases on alert and wake up the PM and the President" interested.

Also, the way its worded, you either grant him asylum or turn him over to me. Those are your options.

Probably just semantics but "asylum" implies that the person in question would not be able to enter legally without being granted refugee status. In the case of a citizen or a resident they have the right to enter, just prove you're one and no questions asked. This is true in Kelssek and in most RL countries.

This resolution is just going to complicate matters and let me assure you that it will be more or less ineffective, since governments can influence the judiciary if they really don't want to extradite someone. There are also no specific safeguards to prevent extradition to places known for unfair legal systems or practices. If there are extradition problems, the individual governments should work them out. Taking it to the UN level is a bit too wide.

So, if you want to extradite one of your citizens from my country, I can set up my own criteria to judge a request for asylum?

I see great potential for revenue enhancement here. Asshelmetta has beautiful beaches - send us your white collar criminals, your rich, your venal!

Oh, but it gets better!
Your government can then appeal in my "courts". So I can set up a bidding war between you and your fugitive millionaires?

The Oppressed Peoples of Asshelmetta strongly support this proposal. Last page, you say? I'm on it.

I think that was what Kelssek was going for (but do correct me if I am wrong!)

Well, yes, partially. I'm pointing out that a citizen fleeing to his own country would be entitled to enter his own country, thus there's no "asylum" status that has to be granted even if his country doesn't agree to extradition.

IC: To expand on the example, say one of our own citizens, wanted by DLE, walks into the immigration checkpoint and gives the officer his Kelssek passport. The officer has no choice but to let him in unobstructed, no matter what, for two reasons -

1. As a citizen of Kelssek he has the right to enter Kelssek under our constitution.
2. His crime was committed in a location we have no jurisdiction over. We cannot prosecute him for the crime, and we cannot convict him of it. Therefore under our laws he is innocent of any crime and we cannot detain him.

This isn't something specific to us, but is an almost universal privilege of citizenship almost every country grants to its citizens - the right to move freely in and out of their own country.

Now say DLE makes an extradition request. Under the current policy that we have, it would be automatically denied, but let's ignore that. Now we will send the police to arrest him for provisional detention. But since the person knows the police would be after him, he could hide out. We're a big country and we've got lots of wilderness and forest. And if the government isn't particularly enthusiastic about extraditing the person... well then the police probably won't be either, if you get my drift.

Also, criminals can already be extradited regardless of there being a UN resolution in place; this is normally decided only between two nations. There is no problem to be fixed here.

I'm gone for a short while to take care of something and this is what I deal with...

The Air Force would get pretty interested in unidentified, unauthorised spacecraft entering our airspace. "Get the SAM bases on alert and wake up the PM and the President" interested.

Which would be interesting to see. I use graviton shields. Radar is going to have a hard time picking up a ship like that due simply to the gravitational distortions.

Probably just semantics but "asylum" implies that the person in question would not be able to enter legally without being granted refugee status. In the case of a citizen or a resident they have the right to enter, just prove you're one and no questions asked. This is true in Kelssek and in most RL countries.

It implies that, but is not limited to it. And this resolution really gives no other option.

This resolution is just going to complicate matters and let me assure you that it will be more or less ineffective, since governments can influence the judiciary if they really don't want to extradite someone. There are also no specific safeguards to prevent extradition to places known for unfair legal systems or practices. If there are extradition problems, the individual governments should work them out. Taking it to the UN level is a bit too wide.

Taking it to the UN only causes problems. As has been shown in the past.