NationStates Jolt Archive

I was noticing that in my own region there are a series of non-human sentient species. I relized reading all but the definition of marrige propasal was worded just for humans. That to me seemd unnecasarly specist. Should all sentient life enjoy the love of and protection of the UN? Thoughts? If you noticed I have a bit of trouble with writing so any asitacne offered would be appriciated.

Do you mean "all sentient species in nations in the UN" or just "all sentient species?" If the latter, then remember that not all species have members in the UN.

Well, first you have to define "sentient"

Well, first you have to define "sentient"

Which is next to impossible.

Here's versions 1 and 2 of something similar I was working on. Feel free to use them as you will.

***
(Version 1)

SEEKING fairness and equality in the application of all resolutions;

NOTING the ongoing work which may result in the global decision of the sentience of the cetaceans (whales, dolphins, etc);

ACCEPTING the possibility of discoveries of extraterrestrial life through the works of the UN Space Consortium (created by the resolution of similar name);

AND IN VIEW of the Resolutions “BioRights Declaration” and the “Rights of Minorities and Women”;

THE UN HEREBY RESOLVES:

Article I: The words “Human” and “Human Being” shall apply equally to all residents of any UN member nation who have demonstrated sentience.

Article II: “Sentience” shall be defined as “the capacity for abstract thought and reasoning”.

Article III: A roster of all beings having demonstrated sentience shall be kept on permanent record in the UN.

Article IV: Any member of a species upon the record shall be considered "sentient" for purposes of Article I.



(Version 2)

SEEKING fairness and equality in the application of all resolutions;

NOTING the ongoing work which may result in the global decision of the sentience of the cetaceans (whales, dolphins, etc);

ACCEPTING the possibility of discoveries of extraterrestrial life through the works of the UN Space Consortium (created by the resolution of similar name);

DEEPLY DISTURBED by rumors of bestiality among the various nations;

AND IN VIEW of the Resolutions “BioRights Declaration” and the “Rights of Minorities and Women”;

THE UN HEREBY RESOLVES:

Article I: The words “Human” and “Human Being” shall apply equally to all residents of any UN member nation who have demonstrated sentience.

Article II: “Sentience” shall be defined as “the capacity for abstract thought and reasoning”.

Article III: A roster of all beings having demonstrated sentience shall be kept on permanent record in the UN.

Article IV: Any member of a species upon the record shall be considered "sentient" for purposes of Article I.

Article V: No UN Member Nation may accept as “members” and/or “people” and/or “humans” any member of any race that is not recorded as sentient upon the record noted in Article III, unless and until such time as the record is amended to include said species.

Article VI: The UN does not recognize any race as not recorded as sentient as per Article III as a "person" and/or "human" and/or "human being" for purposes of enforcement of the many UN Resolutions using those words in their verbiage.

Which makes passing any resolution regarding this equally so. Besides, in some people's opinion, applying for UN membership excludes you from the sentient status.

Which makes passing any resolution regarding this equally so. Besides, in some people's opinion, applying for UN membership excludes you from the sentient status.

Well, there have been questions raised about the average intelligence of the UN...

Being capable of abstract thought and reasoning is largely a matter of opinion...

DLE: I believe someone once said that Raccoons and humans both have an average IQ of 100, the only reason humans have progressed farther is we have a larger standard deviation.

Vastiva, can you alter your proposals to where with humans it is considered on a case-by-case basis?

Also, clarify this whole registry process?

Thanks for the input. Vastiva I like your propoal how about we add: "All species that petition to enter the UN is herby entiled to all benifits and requriemnts that human members do."

Plus, what about those with mental defects? And I imagine it's concievable that some species, maybe only one gender is sentient, or some other factor determines it...

Okay, playing along with the logic here, the only problem I have is that only after the UN recognizes your species as sentient do you have rights. So we can continue to frag ET's unilaterally until one of them demonstrates an ability to pass high school Geometry. Some provision for respecting the rights of species which communicate with us until determined sentient would be in order, I think.

Overall, pretty good work here. Think you could delete the bestiality line, though.

Whaa? I know Worf didn't have to pass geometry to be allowed equal rights in the Federation. What if all that is required for equal rights and entry into the UN is the ability to comunicate period. Now I know some people and animals don't communicate well but they do communicate. Shouldn't that solve the problem?

Bestiality? I'm sorry, I can't seem to find mention of that, could you kindly point it out to me? Sorry for the inconvenience.

Thanks for the input. Vastiva I like your propoal how about we add: "All species that petition to enter the UN is herby entiled to all benifits and requriemnts that human members do."

At first, I thought that was in Article I - but then again, is the ability to apply sufficient to demonstrate sentience? Good question indeed.

Okay, playing along with the logic here, the only problem I have is that only after the UN recognizes your species as sentient do you have rights. So we can continue to frag ET's unilaterally until one of them demonstrates an ability to pass high school Geometry. Some provision for respecting the rights of species which communicate with us until determined sentient would be in order, I think.

Overall, pretty good work here. Think you could delete the bestiality line, though.

Those are two different drafts, which were turned over to the thread starter to do with as he wanted. I agree though, the bestiality line is a tad harsh.

Whaa? I know Worf didn't have to pass geometry to be allowed equal rights in the Federation. What if all that is required for equal rights and entry into the UN is the ability to comunicate period. Now I know some people and animals don't communicate well but they do communicate. Shouldn't that solve the problem?

My suggestion is to leave the test itself nebulous, and/or to add a line about some appointed board of scientists from the UN giving the actual test.

Our scientists regulary communicate with our Whale populations, we refer to them as "Whale People". Before we do anything that might affect them (such as mining the ocean floor, or launching deep see probes) we consult with them, ask them about any issues they have, and tell them about dangerous places that we know of. We have tried to do this with other species, I'd recommend not talking to most insect life... they are usually a bit too busy to talk. Anyway, The Whale People have been most useful in patroling our coastline as well.
Anyway, our conversations do not normaly go beyond pleasant chatter and fish preferences. They have never expressed any interest in government and are very content to leave things as they are. However we recognize that such a proposal is a noble one, and necessary. Just don't expect us to be sending any Whale People representatives in the near future.

Sai

Our scientists regulary communicate with our Whale populations, we refer to them as "Whale People". Before we do anything that might affect them (such as mining the ocean floor, or launching deep see probes) we consult with them, ask them about any issues they have, and tell them about dangerous places that we know of. We have tried to do this with other species, I'd recommend not talking to most insect life... they are usually a bit too busy to talk. Anyway, The Whale People have been most useful in patroling our coastline as well.
Anyway, our conversations do not normaly go beyond pleasant chatter and fish preferences. They have never expressed any interest in government and are very content to leave things as they are. However we recognize that such a proposal is a noble one, and necessary. Just don't expect us to be sending any Whale People representatives in the near future.

Sai

Difficult to get them into the little chairs? ;)

I'll support this as long as the guy who made the "Battlefield Honor" draft is PERMANTENTLY banned from being considered sentient.

Does it matter?

My nation is made up of three species - Humans, Elves and Dwarves. There are a lot of other species but they are not covered under our laws. They are mostly animals, vampires, demons, dragons and so forth. Only the Humans, Elves and Dwarves have the protection of the laws and so forth.

However for purposes of law making the Elves and Dwarves have accepted that, due to the vast variety of life and species throughout the UN, the term "human" and "humanity" apply to them. They don't take it as an insult, because the laws are not setting out to discriminate against them, but protect them. And that the UN (hopefully) and that the government of TilEnca has a lot better things to do than re-writing all the legislation to take account of every type of species that exists.

So - TilEnca has very little use for this, because it is patronising and insulting that species other than humans don't ALREADY have the protection of law.

Stankystan looks at this proposal as a joke. People can not be serious about it.

This proposal tries to bring animals to the human condition. We dont accept that, mainly because they arent humans.

We approve, respect and honour every other proposal regarding animals rights.

This one you think it's purely waste of UN members time and resources.

Stankystan looks at this proposal as a joke. People can not be serious about it.

This proposal tries to bring animals to the human condition. We dont accept that, mainly because they arent humans.

We approve, respect and honour every other proposal regarding animals rights.

This one you think it's purely waste of UN members time and resources.

This is focusing on sentient nonhumans, such as the Sarkarasetan soldiers currently manning the ships in high orbit over your nation who are more evolved than humans, in charge of massive quantities of antimatter weapons, and don't appreciate what they view as a lesser species calling them animals.

... Sarkarasetan soldiers ...

Stankystan Secret Intelligence Services (SSIS) would like to meet these beings.

We request the help of any member that already has contacted them.

You already have had contact with such beings. Sarkarasetans are pretty much the entirety of DLE.

Great input people. Vastiva love you (In a platonic way of course).
If test are nebulas would that allow for abuses such as ones seen during that hrrilbe period of Jim Crow where a illeterate White guy could pass that "test" When a African American with FOUR doctorites couldn't. Sory I realy hate racists.
Maybe I am wrong to think I am trying too hard to solve the whole issue of hate with legilastion.
Okay I know on the real Earth they proved Wales could communicate. Maybee if someone knew the specifics we could apply that same test as validation for admission.
I know that somewhere out there is telling me (or Trying to tell me) what about psycics who can't use spoken language. Since I'm not psycic( all that TV) I can't hear them. How can they pass the same test. But can't the test still apply.

Until SSIS meet with those beings, Stankystan position about the proposal (or sort of) will remain the same. DISAPPROVAL.

:Taps button on desk, and several Sarkarasetans walk into the room:

As you can see, we look similar to humans. Just a lot taller and more likely to be able to kill you by saying an arcane phrase.

Great input people. Vastiva love you (In a platonic way of course).
If test are nebulas would that allow for abuses such as ones seen during that hrrilbe period of Jim Crow where a illeterate White guy could pass that "test" When a African American with FOUR doctorites couldn't. Sory I realy hate racists.
Maybe I am wrong to think I am trying too hard to solve the whole issue of hate with legilastion.
Okay I know on the real Earth they proved Wales could communicate. Maybee if someone knew the specifics we could apply that same test as validation for admission.
I know that somewhere out there is telling me (or Trying to tell me) what about psycics who can't use spoken language. Since I'm not psycic( all that TV) I can't hear them. How can they pass the same test. But can't the test still apply.

"Homo Sapiens" is one race.

:Taps button on desk, and several Sarkarasetans walk into the room:

As you can see, we look similar to humans. Just a lot taller and more likely to be able to kill you by saying an arcane phrase.

Death Threats? Not a very nice way of discussing subjects.
Stankystan's position remains the same. We are off this debate. Farewell.

Death Threats? Not a very nice way of discussing subjects.
Stankystan's position remains the same. We are off this debate. Farewell.


That wasn't a death threat. Just pointing out one of our natural abilities.

....This proposal would WHAT?!? Oh, you people are insane! Do you know what would happen if we applied the Universal Bill of Rights to the Rekk?! Their entire race is composed of bloodthirsty lizard f--

.....Oh dear. Er....can I strike that last part from the record?

What do you mean, "of course I can't?" You unreasonable....

....I have plausible deniability. I really do. As far as I know, no species called the Rekk exists in Necros-Vacuia....

And if they did, they all certainly wouldn't be bred as trained assassins for the Lord Praetor. No sir.

--Ellion Kev, Ambassador to the UN, Dominion of Necros-Vacuia