NationStates Jolt Archive

I thought that it would be good for the NSUN to have a uniform protocol when dealing with new species. This is a draft of a proposal that I wish to submit. Please give any helpful suggestions and show your support/distaste.

First Contact Protocol
Category: International Security
Strength: Significant

Whereas, the existence of alien species is evident throughout many UN Nations on the Earth, in Space, and on other Planets; and,

Whereas, unsanctioned military force upon newly discovered species could bring about interstellar war;

Therefore, be it resolved, that the NS United Nations, in protection of all species, human or otherwise, does adopt the following protocol for the discovery and first contact of an alien species:

The following protocol will be used by all NSUN Members upon the first contact of a new species:

1) It will be assumed that any single vessel of an alien race is on a peaceful mission.

2) No weapons shall be fixed upon any unknown alien craft as it lands.

3) If any incoming vessel of an unknown species does not appear to have weapons powered and ready, no weapons or shields shall be made ready against them.
4) Under NO circumstance is any UN Nation to fire first upon any unknown species. Nations may only fire back after a direct hit from an alien vessel.

5) If any incoming vessel appears to have weaponry on their ship, defenses may be raised, but weapons shall not be powered.

6) After formal greetings have taken place in an NSUN nation, any new species shall be brought to the NSUN Headquarters for formal greetings from all member nations.

7) No weapons shall be powered against any unknown alien species’ planet.

8) If fired upon by an unknown alien species’ planet, vessels are required to retreat until diplomatic relations may be attained, and not fire back unless pursuit is given.

9) Units may be armed upon leaving their craft upon an unknown planet, but may not have them drawn and powered unless fired upon.

10) Under NO circumstance may an NSUN Member Nation declare war on an unknown new species without the endorsement of the NSUN.

Respectfully Submitted,
Brandon J Yad
President of Granbia

Its ok, but these things rarely if ever pass man. The closest anybody has come to a futuretech RP is rights of genetically engineered people or whatever it was. Your RP doesn't fit with other peoples view of the NS world so they probably wont vote for it.

I think this is a good idea. My nation is an FT nation so yeah, I'm up for it. Its kinda like my version, but this is good work.

1) It will be assumed that any single vessel of an alien race is on a peaceful mission. (even the Death Star?)

2) ...unknown ...
3) ...unknown ...
4) ...unknown ...
7) ...unknown ...
8) ...unknown ...
9) ...unknown ...

Common defense against each of these points:

"Hey Joey, do you know these guys?"
"Ummm, looks kinda like the creep that used ta date my sister"
"So you know 'em?"
"Yeah. Let's kill 'em all!"

10) Under NO circumstance may an NSUN Member Nation declare war on an unknown new species without the endorsement of the NSUN.

The NSUN doesn't do endorsements. Even if they did, I can think of multiple circumstances where it would be appropriate to declare war on an alien species that, say, appeared in my skies and started bombing my citizens.

"Hey Joey, we can't blow these bastards out of the sky, 'cause we're UN members!"
"Hang on a sec ..." -- clicks 'Resign from the UN' button' -- "... OK, we're good to go. Xenocide, here we come!"

what if i changed

"Whereas, the existence of alien species is evident throughout many UN Nations on the Earth, in Space, and on other Planets; and,"

to

Whereas, there is a possibility that NSUN Nations may come into contact with new alien species.....


would that sound better and not so futuretech?


1) It will be assumed that any single vessel of an alien race is on a peaceful mission. (even the Death Star?)

how about

1) It will be assumed that any single unknown vessel of an unknown alien race is on a peaceful mission?

10) Under NO circumstance may an NSUN Member Nation declare war on an unknown new species without the endorsement of the NSUN.

The NSUN doesn't do endorsements. Even if they did, I can think of multiple circumstances where it would be appropriate to declare war on an alien species that, say, appeared in my skies and started bombing my citizens.


Very good point. I do see a difference between, say, self defense actions and declaring all out war. If you would need to defend yourself, you wouldn't have to declare war on them (right away). Pre-emptive strikes by a nation would not be sanctioned under "Firing but not declaring war" because of the other articles. But if it is too foggy, or violates rules, i wouldn't mind taking it out.


By the way, thanks for your input!

Brandon J Yad
President of Granbia

Common defense against each of these points:

"Hey Joey, do you know these guys?"
"Ummm, looks kinda like the creep that used ta date my sister"
"So you know 'em?"
"Yeah. Let's kill 'em all!"

I honestly don't think that any nation would be inclined to think that they could get away with that without the UN knowing. If you have no prior records of a confrontation with a species anywhere in your government, then they are UNKNOWN to you.

1) It will be assumed that any single vessel of an alien race is on a peaceful mission.

I'm all for innocent until proven guilty, but shouldn't we be on our guard, just in case?

2) No weapons shall be fixed upon any unknown alien craft as it lands.
Not even if it looks really scary and we want to be ready just in case they start firing?

3) If any incoming vessel of an unknown species does not appear to have weapons powered and ready, no weapons or shields shall be made ready against them.
See above.

4) Under NO circumstance is any UN Nation to fire first upon any unknown species. Nations may only fire back after a direct hit from an alien vessel.

What if it is about to land on a crowded shopping mall?

5) If any incoming vessel appears to have weaponry on their ship, defenses may be raised, but weapons shall not be powered.

Jeez... all we have is some dinky shotguns... can we "power" those?

6) After formal greetings have taken place in an NSUN nation, any new species shall be brought to the NSUN Headquarters for formal greetings from all member nations.

OK, makes sense.

7) No weapons shall be powered against any unknown alien species’ planet.

Hmmmm... ok

8) If fired upon by an unknown alien species’ planet, vessels are required to retreat until diplomatic relations may be attained, and not fire back unless pursuit is given.

I'm not so sure that's a good idea.........

9) Units may be armed upon leaving their craft upon an unknown planet, but may not have them drawn and powered unless fired upon.

Hmmm.... how about we can draw them and "power" them, and maybe even fire them to scare people or to get quiet, but not use them as a weapon?

10) Under NO circumstance may an NSUN Member Nation declare war on an unknown new species without the endorsement of the NSUN.

Under NO circumstance? I guess I'll just have to declare a "police action" against the new species while they destroy my cities if I don't have time to get an endorsement passed.

I thought that it would be good for the NSUN to have a uniform protocol when dealing with new species. This is a draft of a proposal that I wish to submit. Please give any helpful suggestions and show your support/distaste.

I wonder how many of these I violate on a daily basis...

First Contact Protocol
Category: International Security
Strength: Significant

Hmm. Maybe on the category. Keep it for now.

Whereas, the existence of alien species is evident throughout many UN Nations on the Earth, in Space, and on other Planets; and,

Whereas, unsanctioned military force upon newly discovered species could bring about interstellar war;

Therefore, be it resolved, that the NS United Nations, in protection of all species, human or otherwise, does adopt the following protocol for the discovery and first contact of an alien species:

The following protocol will be used by all NSUN Members upon the first contact of a new species:

This should be interesting...

1) It will be assumed that any single vessel of an alien race is on a peaceful mission.

Even if said ship arrives with powered cannons and is targetting you with antimatter missiles?

2) No weapons shall be fixed upon any unknown alien craft as it lands.

Uh, if they are landing on one of my planets, I've either given them permission or the landing is of the crashing variety after a bad encounter with orbital defenses and my fleets. If the second option, I will still be firing on them as they land and until I am reasonably sure there's nothing left alive. Then I'll strip the ship of whatever technology survived.

3) If any incoming vessel of an unknown species does not appear to have weapons powered and ready, no weapons or shields shall be made ready against them.

The moment you arrive near one of my planets, you're already being targetted by ion cannons, disruptor cannons, and possibly even torpedo launchers. This is simply because of caution (I do have two pirate groups in the area).

4) Under NO circumstance is any UN Nation to fire first upon any unknown species. Nations may only fire back after a direct hit from an alien vessel.

If they try to land on a planet without permission, I fire on them. If they try to land on an orbital platform without permission, I fire on them. If they fire at me, I return fire. Those are all general defense policies.

5) If any incoming vessel appears to have weaponry on their ship, defenses may be raised, but weapons shall not be powered.

If you're in my region without weapons on your ship, that means your ship is either a torpedo or a missile, unless escorted by my ships. If I didn't escort you in, don't expect your ship to survive. And I'd love to know how you dodged the pirates and got past the automated derelicts without weapons.

6) After formal greetings have taken place in an NSUN nation, any new species shall be brought to the NSUN Headquarters for formal greetings from all member nations.

I hope they're not using warp, as it'll take them four years to get to Earth with it.

7) No weapons shall be powered against any unknown alien species’ planet.

Unless I'm at war with them.

8) If fired upon by an unknown alien species’ planet, vessels are required to retreat until diplomatic relations may be attained, and not fire back unless pursuit is given.

I like this one. Classify me under "unknown species" for the purposes of this one. In fact, that's pretty much the safest way to make diplomatic contact.

9) Units may be armed upon leaving their craft upon an unknown planet, but may not have them drawn and powered unless fired upon.

My units use projectile weapons (having a little problem developping energy weapons with the same feel...). So, technically they are never powered.

10) Under NO circumstance may an NSUN Member Nation declare war on an unknown new species without the endorsement of the NSUN.

The NSUN doesn't give endorsement for war.

I hope this clears up some of the issues that you are having with this proposal. If you pull an armada in front of a ship and it doesn't even slow down, i'm pretty sure that that ship no longer qualifies as an "Unknown Friendly Vessel." and if you are at war with someone, they are not UNKNOWN. If someone is landing on your shopping mall, that is equal to being fired upon.... unless you want it to be "dismemberment threatened."

Wait... We're supposed to know who they are before going to war with them?

you're supposed to be able to prove that they're hostile. If you know before hand, then this doesn't have anything to do with it. If you don't have any idea, you should wait and be sure before getting the whole world into something. So if they start blowing your country up, it's pretty clear that you know that they are hostile.

Do you think that i should add a line GRANTING that? I was hoping that i could just limit a few things and leave out unnecessary "You can do this" statements.

If someone is landing on your shopping mall, that is equal to being fired upon.... unless you want it to be "dismemberment threatened."

Yes, I would like that changed.

I would also like to be able to prepare just in case the vessel turns out to be not-so-friendly, and to have 'unknown vessels' be replaced with 'unknown friendly vessels' throughout

good idea

I put "Friendly" in once, although i'm weary of putting it in everywhere as it is a pretty loosely defined term. I also changed "direct hit" to "direct attack."


Thank You!



I think i'm going to start editing the original. sorry if it makes any of your posts look goofy

good idea

I think i'm going to start editing the original. sorry if it makes any of your posts look goofy

As a suggestion, can I suggest that you keep the original as it is, but post a new copy. You can add a note to the first post (or the original copy of the proposal if it is not the first post) to indicate there is a new one, but I always find if I am looking at changes in a proposal, it helps to have the original to compare to.

Darn, the original is saved on the campus drive. I'll change it tomorrow for you. Sorry

Darn, the original is saved on the campus drive. I'll change it tomorrow for you. Sorry

(smirk) It was just a suggestion - you can feel free to totally ignore it and throw things at me :}

I've learned through student governance on campus that the best way to get votes is some good ass-kissing.


So is this ready to be proposed? would you support it?

the best way to get votes is some good ass-kissing.
Change "some" to "a ton of" and you'll be ready to seriously promote a proposal. You might reach 10% of the potential approvers here in the UN forum, but it's probably closer to 4% or 5%. The rest you have to get the old fashioned way, but grass-roots campaigning. We're talking telegrams to at least 40-50% of eligible delegates to get the 6% you need.


Count me in the "no" camp. Sorry, but this 'Prime Directive' variant stuff just doesn't work for me. However, I like your spirit of compromise, and hope you'll keep trying with other ideas.

I totally agree with you on the "Prime Directive" stuff. Although am I a fan of Star Trek, I don't play NS in any sort of FuterTech way. However, wouldn't it be good to have some rules "just incase?" .......:)

The proposal has been submitted. Please lend your support (delegates) or your support TO your delegates. I think that this is a great idea (especially) if you are playing non FT, but the FT players should like it, too.

ooc: I know that we don't really believe that there are aliens or anything. But i really don't think that we should completely rule it out. What if a friendly group shows up from a huge military planet and meets the North Koreans? and they nuke the ship. Oh Great, huh? (Forget the fact that they're not in the UN :P )

Also, is there anyone that would like to help me send out some TG's?

Thank you for your support!
Brandon J Yad
President of Granbia

ooc: I know that we don't really believe that there are aliens or anything. But i really don't think that we should completely rule it out. What if a friendly group shows up from a huge military planet and meets the North Koreans? and they nuke the ship. Oh Great, huh? (Forget the fact that they're not in the UN :P )

Uh, actually, scientific probability makes it less likely for life to exist at all than for humans to be the only sentient species in the universe. So, yes, aliens likely exist. No guarantees they'll be anything within human comprehension.

To be honest, not bad. Not likely to be passed (the previous nine attempts have failed) but still a good idea.

C'mon! Voice your opinions/Approvals/Disapprovals/Utter lack of respect for me....anything

(OOC)

Did you ever see Mars Attacks?

(IC)

While we are not permitted to fix weapons on landing ships, are we allowed to have them in the area? So that we can line the landing site with tanks and so forth? They won't be exactly pointing at the alien ship as it lands, but they will be in attendence, just in case the beings coming off the ship are not as friendly as you would assume.

Is this acceptable?

Personally, I still prefer my option of anyone trying to land on my planets without permission is automatically assumed hostile and shot down. Saves a lot of time and money.

I thought that it would be good for the NSUN to have a uniform protocol when dealing with new species. This is a draft of a proposal that I wish to submit. Please give any helpful suggestions and show your support/distaste.

Sounds like a pipe-dream; but ok...


First Contact Protocol
Category: International Security
Strength: Significant

Whereas, there is a possibility that NSUN Nations may come into contact with new alien species; and,

Yep, I do it a few time or more a week.


Whereas, unsanctioned military force upon newly discovered species could bring about interstellar war;


Un-sanctioned? Does this mean I would need approval from a democratic body, who can't even agree on what the UN is for in the first place, to make decisions for my stellar military forces, before they can even keep from getting obliterated from the multitude of hostile alien lifeforms in this universe?


Therefore, be it resolved, that the NS United Nations, in protection of all species, human or otherwise, does adopt the following protocol for the discovery and first contact of an alien species:

I haven't even got there yet... and I'm already nervous about what it will say...


The following protocol will be used by all NSUN Members upon the first contact of a new species:

1) It will be assumed that any single vessel of an unknown alien race is on a peaceful mission.

Well, I already generally do that, unless I've been given the message that my crew and ship have been designated as "life-force renewal stock" and will be made into tek-burgers within the hour...


2) No weapons shall be fixed upon any unknown alien craft as it lands unless the craft is threatening the safety of innocent bystanders.


Ok, but as long as its in space, I can fix all my weapons on the little buggers... Good....


3) If any incoming vessel of an unknown species does not appear to have weapons armed and ready, no weapons or shields shall be made ready against them.

Given the plethora of weapons technologies, and new ones poping up every contact... I'd rather err on the side of caution and assume that any larger energy signature is a weapon untill otherwise proven.


4) Under NO circumstance is any UN Nation to fire first upon any unknown species. Nations may only fire back after a direct attack from an alien vessel.


What if they haven't fired, but are heading to my home planet in a moon sized craft, broadcasting our surrender, and designation as "life-force renewal stock" ?


5) If any incoming vessel appears to have weaponry on their ship, defenses may be raised, but weapons shall not be armed.

Good, that means I can classify large energy signatures as weapons.. Given that the Republic is an Exploratory/Defensive military force, even our "weapons" are classified as defenses.


6) After formal greetings have taken place in an NSUN nation, any new species shall be brought to the NSUN Headquarters for formal greetings from all member nations.

Most of the friendlier ones, do not want anything to do with the majority of mental midgets in the NSUN... Hate to break it to you; but most advanced species would just as soon leave most of the lower-tech UN nations running around in the dirt and darkness like cockroaches...


7) No weapons shall be armed against any friendly unknown alien species’ planet.

If they are unknown, how do we know they are friendly?


8) If fired upon by an unknown alien species’ planet, vessels are required to retreat until diplomatic relations may be attained, and not fire back unless pursuit is given.

Fuck that...


9) Units may be armed upon leaving their craft upon an unknown planet, but may not have them drawn unless fired upon.

Ah, a good idea.... I'm shocked...


10) Under NO circumstance may an NSUN Member Nation declare war on a friendly unknown new species without first bringing said species to the NSUN and/or providing proof of hostility.

Once again... if they are "unknown" how do we "know" they are friendly?

Null and void. Our air space. We have every right to control who is in our air space.

While we are not permitted to fix weapons on landing ships, are we allowed to have them in the area? So that we can line the landing site with tanks and so forth? They won't be exactly pointing at the alien ship as it lands, but they will be in attendence, just in case the beings coming off the ship are not as friendly as you would assume.

Is this acceptable?

Absolutely. There were a couple of obvious loopholes left in this proposal, so that it can be interpreted slightly differently in each situation. However, if you were to stretch it too far, I believe that the UN would notice it and take action.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Granbia
4) Under NO circumstance is any UN Nation to fire first upon any unknown species. Nations may only fire back after a direct attack from an alien vessel.




What if they haven't fired, but are heading to my home planet in a moon sized craft, broadcasting our surrender, and designation as "life-force renewal stock" ?

This is a great example of why I put in unknown "Friendly" vessel/species. It would be pretty obvious that they are not friendly if they want you to surrender and be their D-cells.


As for the arguements about "knowing" that an "unknown" species is friendly, well, you really don't. The basic point of the proposal is that you would be assuming innocence, but with plenty of ways out if there are threats made or lives endangered. I know that most Future Tech nations have a network of orbital defense systems, high energy weapons, etc, but most of the nations in the UN really don't, so it would really be protection for all. As an example that spans both FT and Non FT, what if a deadly species that a FT nation is familiar with meets up with Granbia, who has no idea what the hell's going on? If this species could kill almost anything, do you want me shooting a couple of tanks at it?


Thanks for all of the input! The resolution still only has 8 votes, what might i do to change it for next time that might help out?

Brandon J Yad
President of Granbia

Interferes too much with nations who are capable of interstellar travel.

And if they can get there why can't they call first?

Lady Desdemona of Merwell,
Senior UN representative,
The Black New World,
Delegate to The Order of The Valiant States

10) Under NO circumstance may an NSUN Member Nation declare war on a friendly unknown new species without first bringing said species to the NSUN and/or providing proof of hostility.
Everything about your resolution makes sense except that part. The rules of engagement makes more sense.

If an high-tech alien species attacks us then we should have the right to defend ourselves. How about something like being able to attack if fired on? Then the UN has to vote to declare war for the whole United Nations to jump in. Unless it's an Independence Day situation then you all just attack at once. :sniper: :sniper: :sniper: :gundge: :gundge:

Everything about your resolution makes sense except that part. The rules of engagement makes more sense.

If an high-tech alien species attacks us then we should have the right to defend ourselves. How about something like being able to attack if fired on? Then the UN has to vote to declare war for the whole United Nations to jump in. Unless it's an Independence Day situation then you all just attack at once. :sniper: :sniper: :sniper: :gundge: :gundge:

Of course you have the right to defend yourself. You don't have to declare war on a country before you can defend yourself. It doesn't say that the UN will "Endorse" your war, it just states that you must provide proof that the alien species was hostile. Being able to attack if fired upon is already in the resolution under number 4 in the second sentence.


Thank you for your input

1) It will be assumed that any single vessel of an unknown alien race is on a peaceful mission.

How can you possibly make an assumption like this? If we assume this, then all FT nations may as well just not bother arming their vessels when they go out exploring the galaxy! Unfortunately, not everyone in the galaxy will be peace-loving and intent on 'Seeking out new life and new civilisations...'

2) No weapons shall be fixed upon any unknown alien craft as it lands unless the craft is threatening the safety of innocent bystanders.

Standard proceedure should be to raise defensive capabilities, but not directly lock weapons on an unknown craft. I agree with this in part, but waiting until the craft threatens civilians...not a fantastic idea...

3) If any incoming vessel of an unknown species does not appear to have weapons armed and ready, no weapons or shields shall be made ready against them.

Surely you cannot be this idiotic? How do we know what weapons capabilities these aliens have? We may not be able to detect their weapons. Shields should be raised as a matter of standard practice when encountering an alien vessel.

4) Under NO circumstance is any UN Nation to fire first upon any unknown species. Nations may only fire back after a direct attack from an alien vessel.

Agreed

5) If any incoming vessel appears to have weaponry on their ship, defenses may be raised, but weapons shall not be armed.

Agreed

6) After formal greetings have taken place in an NSUN nation, any new species shall be brought to the NSUN Headquarters for formal greetings from all member nations.

Only if the alien species consents, and only if it is feasible to do so. There's no point making a 4,000 light-year detour to visit the NSUN HQ when a simple subspace transmission would do the trick.

7) No weapons shall be armed against any friendly unknown alien species’ planet.

What...uhhhh - how can an unknown alien species be determined to be friendly? I agree that no weapons should be armed against unknown planets, but your wording is wrong here.

8) If fired upon by an unknown alien species’ planet, vessels are required to retreat until diplomatic relations may be attained, and not fire back unless pursuit is given.

I'd love to see how an alien planet could pursue a starship! But yes, a retreat out of weapons range would be the better part of valour.

9) Units may be armed upon leaving their craft upon an unknown planet, but may not have them drawn unless fired upon.

10) Under NO circumstance may an NSUN Member Nation declare war on a friendly unknown new species without first bringing said species to the NSUN and/or providing proof of hostility.

I don't see how this would work...

eg

Human: Hello Mr Alien - just going to take you to the NSUN to declare war on you
Alien: Ok

But I agree that no NSUN Member Nation should declare war on an alien species - UNLESS IT IS SPECIFIC TO THEIR OWN ROLEPLAY

You seriously need to reword this before I consider it viable.

Check my suggestions.

Well, it looks as though this proposal is not going to come anywhere near to quorem before time runs out, but i'm very please with the amount of endorsements that it received. I would like to thank you all for your help and argu(e)ments, especially Aligned Planets there at the end. Basically, I just typed this proposal off of the top of my head in five minutes, so I will work at rewording it a little to make sure that everything is covered and understandable, without taking away from my original intentions. Again, thanks for the support, and I will post again when a second Proposal is submitted. If anyone is interested in proofreading my next copy, please TG me.


Respectfully Submitted

Brandon J Yad
President of Granbia

Tekania, keep it civil...

Just post the next copy - we'll all read it. We'll be too curious not to.

Tekania, keep it civil...

I am, that was just the most consise representation of my opinion on that one point.

TAG. I'm going to read this tommorow.