NationStates Jolt Archive

Hello,
I would like to inform you of a proposal that is waiting for votes in the UN proposals system. Please read and look into voting for it, as it will improve the quality and quantity of free trade around the world. Below I have copied and pasted in a link to the page it is on, as well as the description from that page.

Thank you for your Consideration.

The Rogue Nation of Helicari

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Electrical Standards
A resolution to reduce barriers to free trade and commerce.


Category: Free Trade
Strength: Significant
Proposed by: Helicari

Description: OBSERVING: That the electrical systems (defined as the systems used for the deployment of electricity to the populace) employed in each nation are different.

CONCERNED: That this difference in electrical systems (as defined above) is causing problems with trade between nations. Different nations use different shaped electrical outlets and plugs, use different electrical voltages, and have different electrical frequencies for the deployment of electricity. This is inhibiting the free trade of electronics, as electronics built for one system cannot be used on another. This is also inhibiting the passage of diplomats and business men between nations, as they have difficulty utilizing their electrical items from their nations when visiting other nations on business or diplomatic ventures. The lack of an international electrical standards system is causing disarray across the world.

PROCLAIMING: That nations must adopt a standard electrical system, as proposed below, and that they must begin the switch immediately following the ratification of this resolution, and be completely converted to the new system within one (1) year of the ratification of this resolution.

UN Electrical Standards:
Voltage: 220V, AC
Outlet Design:
Outlets will consist of three prongs, arranged in a circular fashion. Two will carry electrical current, and one will be a ground. The ground will be circular, and the current carriers will be flat. The three prongs will be arranged in a triangular fashion inside the circle. The ground will be above the current carriers, the same distance above them, as they are apart. The current carrying plugs will be 1.5cm apart.
Electrical Frequency: 60hz

CALLING UPON: All nations of the world to adopt this system of electrical standards of deployment to better your nations trade and business relations with the rest of the world.


Approvals: 16 (WZ Forums, Sticks and Dirt, Hopi, Yangzhou, Extreme Darwinists, JS Nijmegen, Coolet, Moonriders, Kalin, Fenor, Ald Rhun, Al-Zar, La Commune Quebecoise, Krigerania, Jo-nineveh, Eilenach)

Status: Lacking Support (requires 125 more approvals)

Voting Ends: Fri Dec 3 2004


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Please Vote ->

http://www.nationstates.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/10274/page=UN_proposal/start=75

Apart from the inconvenience of differing electrical devices, there is no need for this. Such a large scale conversion could be quite expensive. Especially for countries that are already economically burdened. The Republic of Kingsland will not support this.

This isn't going to increase free trade.

And besides, it would ruin the two-prong-converter manufacturing sector of Adam Island!

This isn't going to increase free trade.

And besides, it would ruin the two-prong-converter manufacturing sector of Adam Island!

It will increase free trade by allowing all electronics to be traded among countries across the world. As most countries now have their own electronical system, they have to make their own electronics, or buy converters. The free trade of electronics will greatly benefit the overall economies and free trade of all the nations of the world.

It will increase free trade by allowing all electronics to be traded among countries across the world. As most countries now have their own electronical system, they have to make their own electronics, or buy converters. The free trade of electronics will greatly benefit the overall economies and free trade of all the nations of the world.

But in TilEnca we have a five volt system that powers pretty much everything. To convert the entire TilEncan grid to 220 v would be prohibitively expensive, would require all of our electrical appliances to be remade to take 220v rather than 5v (cause otherwise explosions all over the place) and then scrap all the convertors we have been selling to our people.

So - why is this a good move for us?

It will increase free trade by allowing all electronics to be traded among countries across the world. As most countries now have their own electronical system, they have to make their own electronics, or buy converters. The free trade of electronics will greatly benefit the overall economies and free trade of all the nations of the world.

All electrionics are already traded among countries across the world. They just have to buy a converter too in many circumstances. Sort of like how in nations without state-wide WiFi access people have to buy cables.

Hello,
I would like to inform you of a proposal that is waiting for votes in the UN proposals system. Please read and look into voting for it, as it will improve the quality and quantity of free trade around the world. Below I have copied and pasted in a link to the page it is on, as well as the description from that page.

Thank you for your Consideration.

The Rogue Nation of Helicari

I can already tell from the name I cannot support this.

Electrical Standards
A resolution to reduce barriers to free trade and commerce.


Category: Free Trade
Strength: Significant
Proposed by: Helicari

Yes, you certainly got the strength right. This still scares me.

Description: OBSERVING: That the electrical systems (defined as the systems used for the deployment of electricity to the populace) employed in each nation are different.

Not every nation has electrical systems.

Among my own nation, the electrical systems differ whether you're talking about planet bound, orbital platform, or space ship. The orbital platforms rely upon nuclear technology and plutonium power cells, Terran relies on luciferian (translation note: solar) due to its extremely large sun, Terrator relies on a combination of systems but is soon to be converted to antimatter tech, and space ships rely on plasma created by the graviton jump engines, though I am creating one that puts the jump engines too just powering jumps and using an antimatter reactor to provide power and prejump speed.

CONCERNED: That this difference in electrical systems (as defined above) is causing problems with trade between nations. Different nations use different shaped electrical outlets and plugs, use different electrical voltages, and have different electrical frequencies for the deployment of electricity. This is inhibiting the free trade of electronics, as electronics built for one system cannot be used on another. This is also inhibiting the passage of diplomats and business men between nations, as they have difficulty utilizing their electrical items from their nations when visiting other nations on business or diplomatic ventures. The lack of an international electrical standards system is causing disarray across the world.

Why is this a problem? It makes for companies that specialize in adapters and helps the economy of nations. Plus, my own tech isn't that compatible with MT nations anyway due to my advanced state and I normally don't allow them anywhere except the orbital platforms if I allow them near my nation at all.

PROCLAIMING: That nations must adopt a standard electrical system, as proposed below, and that they must begin the switch immediately following the ratification of this resolution, and be completely converted to the new system within one (1) year of the ratification of this resolution.

Uh, I can't do that. It'll take me four years per orbital platform alone to rewire them, and that's not counting my hundreds of ships or entire cities. What this is proposing is simply out of the technological scope of my nation to accomplish.

UN Electrical Standards:
Voltage: 220V, AC
Outlet Design:
Outlets will consist of three prongs, arranged in a circular fashion. Two will carry electrical current, and one will be a ground. The ground will be circular, and the current carriers will be flat. The three prongs will be arranged in a triangular fashion inside the circle. The ground will be above the current carriers, the same distance above them, as they are apart. The current carrying plugs will be 1.5cm apart.
Electrical Frequency: 60hz

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! You're not serious, right?

Why, pray tell, should I convert from my power system to a more primitive one? Your system won't power the average DLE microwave, let alone the ion engines of the orbital platforms (yes, they must be unpluggable for rapid replacement). And DLE ships don't even have plugs at all. Your system is not advanced enough for me to support.

CALLING UPON: All nations of the world to adopt this system of electrical standards of deployment to better your nations trade and business relations with the rest of the world.

I don't trade tech due to my tech level. I trade raw materials, both natural and manufactured (as long as the nation has knowledge of the manufactured). This proposal strikes me as inconsiderate of technological differences and actually forces the UN to give technology to nations not advanced enough to have electricity.

Hello,
I would like to inform you of a proposal that is waiting for votes in the UN proposals system. Please read and look into voting for it, as it will improve the quality and quantity of free trade around the world. Below I have copied and pasted in a link to the page it is on, as well as the description from that page.

Thank you for your Consideration.

The Rogue Nation of Helicari

-------------

Electrical Standards
A resolution to reduce barriers to free trade and commerce.


Category: Free Trade
Strength: Significant
Proposed by: Helicari

Description: OBSERVING: That the electrical systems (defined as the systems used for the deployment of electricity to the populace) employed in each nation are different.

CONCERNED: That this difference in electrical systems (as defined above) is causing problems with trade between nations. Different nations use different shaped electrical outlets and plugs, use different electrical voltages, and have different electrical frequencies for the deployment of electricity. This is inhibiting the free trade of electronics, as electronics built for one system cannot be used on another. This is also inhibiting the passage of diplomats and business men between nations, as they have difficulty utilizing their electrical items from their nations when visiting other nations on business or diplomatic ventures. The lack of an international electrical standards system is causing disarray across the world.

PROCLAIMING: That nations must adopt a standard electrical system, as proposed below, and that they must begin the switch immediately following the ratification of this resolution, and be completely converted to the new system within one (1) year of the ratification of this resolution.

UN Electrical Standards:
Voltage: 220V, AC
Outlet Design:
Outlets will consist of three prongs, arranged in a circular fashion. Two will carry electrical current, and one will be a ground. The ground will be circular, and the current carriers will be flat. The three prongs will be arranged in a triangular fashion inside the circle. The ground will be above the current carriers, the same distance above them, as they are apart. The current carrying plugs will be 1.5cm apart.
Electrical Frequency: 60hz

CALLING UPON: All nations of the world to adopt this system of electrical standards of deployment to better your nations trade and business relations with the rest of the world.


Approvals: 16 (WZ Forums, Sticks and Dirt, Hopi, Yangzhou, Extreme Darwinists, JS Nijmegen, Coolet, Moonriders, Kalin, Fenor, Ald Rhun, Al-Zar, La Commune Quebecoise, Krigerania, Jo-nineveh, Eilenach)

Status: Lacking Support (requires 125 more approvals)

Voting Ends: Fri Dec 3 2004


-----
Please Vote ->

http://www.nationstates.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/10274/page=UN_proposal/start=75

Congradulations.... I've declared you ignorant of electrical standards...

First of all... your resolution is not enough.... All nations have multiple standards for outlet designs based on voltage systems and phase...

120V 60hz single phase has its own standard(2-3 prong)
120V 400Hz single phase has its own standard(2-3 prong)*
220V 60Hz single phase has its own standard(2-3 prong)
220V 60Hz 2-phase has its own standard[4 prong]
220V 60Hz 3-phase has its own standard[5 prong]

You resolution restricts all formats to the 220V single phase standard... which would make it incapable of handling the extra power derived from using 2 and 3 phase current for high-yeild electrical work (like 2-phase used in most clothes dryers and eletric ovens)... Sorry, if you are going to propose this, try bulking it out abit to handle all normal household and business electrical standards. And incorporate the usage of 2 and 3 phase standards (AC generators put out 3 phase by default, of which only 1 phase of the current is generally used.)

Please learn the existing principles of AC current, and its normal usage before making a proposal on this issue.

*Most aircraft use this standard for AC current... Higher frequency allows for shrinking the electronics needed in most circuits, which have allowed for smaller equipment needs on aircraft for years.

I concur with the honourable member from Tekania the member from Helicari does not seem to understand the subject and I would therefore respectfully request additional research. Furthermore, you propose one year for conversion? Telidia has a population in the billions! All of who own various electrical goods by the dozens and will be defunct in one year?

1. To instigate what you suggest will need planning, since it will impact various sectors of industry and during the life of the project the impact on the economy will need to be managed. How do you propose to pay for this?

2. A project of this scale will likely take a lifetime if not more considering there are in excess of 37,000 members and trillions of citizens all with electrical goods.

In my humble opinion this type of project is simply unworkable and though I agree it would be very nice having a coherent energy infrastructure we are now stuck with the situation as it is and might as well make the best of it.

Respectfully
Lydia Cornwall, UN Ambassador
Office of UN Relations, Dept for Foreign Affairs
HM Government of Telidia

Fellow Delegates,

As the Esteemed Gentleman from Lord Enigma has noted, your proposal disregards the relative technology levels of the member nations. In his case, you would insist on his adopting an inferior techology, just to accomodate "free trade".

In the case of Tremaynia, electrical appliances and such do not function. We do not produce our own, nor do we import them. Indeed, the peculiar nature of our land is such that most technology taken for granted by most other members will not function either. We have no automobiles. We have no TV stations. The foundation of our society is agrarian and likely regarded as highly "medieval" by most standards. However, we do have a number of things other, more "advanced" nations do not. Griffins and dragons grace our skies. Unicorns dwell in our forests, and discovering your child possesses the ability to become a sorceror is an event for a grand celebration. Indeed, possessing such ability is a hallmark our ruling family; the House of Tremayne has always possessed such abilities.

Requiring my nation to "implement" this standard, would be ludicrous. An electrical appliance brought to Tremaynia ceases to function. Wiring strung in my homelands would do nothing other than clutter the land, and be a waste of valuable timber and metals. It would be like my demanding you place crystal balls in all your major castles. If your people possess no ability to use them, they would be nothing more than curiosities.

As such, this proposal lacks in completeness and regard for the diversity of the UN member states.

Respectfully
Duke Morgan Sheridan
Duke of the High March
Ambassador of Tremaynia

Within the realm of Alternating current generators; they possess three sets of windings 120 degrees off from one another... Producing an overal current generation off all three active lines as such:
http://www.geocities.com/tekcomputers/123PH.jpg

Each phase being 120 degrees out of sync with one another on three lines, each representing a phase:
http://www.geocities.com/tekcomputers/1stPH.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/tekcomputers/2ndPH.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/tekcomputers/3rdPH.jpg

Each active signal is sent on a seperate line, with a common return path.
All power distribution AC systems posses 5 lines
Active Phase 1
Active Phase 2
Active Phase 3
Common
Ground

---

In addition you need to define the type of "Voltage" you are reffering to.
AC has two different classifications of voltage.... peak Voltage (Vpk) and root mean squared Voltage (Vrms). Vrms is used to define derivative power in comparison to Direct Current systems, since average voltage in an AC system is always 0 (zero). Most of the time VAC reffers to Vrms and not Vpk. (Vrms=Vpk/(2^-2)) [Voltage(Root Mean Squared) equals Voltage(Peak) divided by the square root of two]. So if you are going to develope a standard, you need to include the TYPE of VAC being reffered to as well, in addition to the seperate standards for the differentiating phase types and frequencies.... Most US type power systems use 170Vpk systems with an ~120Vrms, in the UK the Vpk is 310Vpk with an ~220Vrms.

Wickedly technical stuff.
Nah, you're just making all that stuff up. If it was real, you'd have used an [OOC] tag.

{{grin}}

Within the realm of Alternating current generators; they possess three sets of windings 120 degrees off from one another... Producing an overal current generation off all three active lines as such:
http://www.geocities.com/tekcomputers/123PH.jpg

Each phase being 120 degrees out of sync with one another on three lines, each representing a phase:
http://www.geocities.com/tekcomputers/1stPH.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/tekcomputers/2ndPH.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/tekcomputers/3rdPH.jpg

Each active signal is sent on a seperate line, with a common return path.
All power distribution AC systems posses 5 lines
Active Phase 1
Active Phase 2
Active Phase 3
Common
Ground

---

In addition you need to define the type of "Voltage" you are reffering to.
AC has two different classifications of voltage.... peak Voltage (Vpk) and root mean squared Voltage (Vrms). Vrms is used to define derivative power in comparison to Direct Current systems, since average voltage in an AC system is always 0 (zero). Most of the time VAC reffers to Vrms and not Vpk. (Vrms=Vpk/(2^-2)) [Voltage(Root Mean Squared) equals Voltage(Peak) divided by the square root of two]. So if you are going to develope a standard, you need to include the TYPE of VAC being reffered to as well, in addition to the seperate standards for the differentiating phase types and frequencies.... Most US type power systems use 170Vpk systems with an ~120Vrms, in the UK the Vpk is 310Vpk with an ~220Vrms.

Hello,

Thank you for demonstrating your extensive knowledge regarding real life AC current and electrical distributions systems, however, I would kindly like to remind you that this is a game. We are playing in a virtual world. While real life electrical principles are important to our daily lives, they in fact don't apply in a world when people invent 90% of their nation's description. I will gladly change the proposal to accomodate other electrical systems, but I do not believe that it is necessary to insult my intelligence regarding electricity. I think that you have made your point, and will consider modifying the proposal. Thank You.

Within the realm of Alternating current generators; they possess three sets of windings 120 degrees off from one another... Producing an overal current generation off all three active lines as such:
http://www.geocities.com/tekcomputers/123PH.jpg

Each phase being 120 degrees out of sync with one another on three lines, each representing a phase:
(lots of images)

Each active signal is sent on a seperate line, with a common return path.
All power distribution AC systems posses 5 lines
Active Phase 1
Active Phase 2
Active Phase 3
Common
Ground

---

In addition you need to define the type of "Voltage" you are reffering to.
AC has two different classifications of voltage.... peak Voltage (Vpk) and root mean squared Voltage (Vrms). Vrms is used to define derivative power in comparison to Direct Current systems, since average voltage in an AC system is always 0 (zero). Most of the time VAC reffers to Vrms and not Vpk. (Vrms=Vpk/(2^-2)) [Voltage(Root Mean Squared) equals Voltage(Peak) divided by the square root of two]. So if you are going to develope a standard, you need to include the TYPE of VAC being reffered to as well, in addition to the seperate standards for the differentiating phase types and frequencies.... Most US type power systems use 170Vpk systems with an ~120Vrms, in the UK the Vpk is 310Vpk with an ~220Vrms.

*A UN spy from the Republic of Adam Island quietly steals the secrets to "electricity"....*