NationStates Jolt Archive

Ritilian
A resolution to ban, legalize, or encourage recreational drugs.


Category: Recreational Drug Use
Decision: Outlaw
Proposed by: Zimbergia

Description: Know not really a dangerous drug, a medical drug used in many children with behavioural problems such as ADHD, and frankly is a medical straight jacket.

This doesent encourage ADHDs to become calm and have a good future, it will just turn them into future drug addicts through the influence of ritilian. Ritilian should be outlawed throughout UN Member countries currently in the world. I mean, seriously, do people want their children to become drug addicts? Hyperactivity has its advantages.

I'm sure there are much safer alternatives for your child.

Approvals: 1 (Zimbergia)

Status: Lacking Support (requires 140 more approvals)

Voting Ends: Wed Dec 1 2004

Please approve. Thanks.

Please people, think about how many people we are turning into druggies here.

In Vastiva, ritalin is available to any who wish it. Records of receiving are kept in pharmacies for safety reasons.

We believe everyone has a choice to do what they wish to do - and accepts the consequences.

As to your proposal - we believe you need serious work upon it to make it at all effective. Perhaps a review of the stickies?

I have reviewed the stickys.

The only thing i see slightly wrong (and i knew but didnt want to make it obvious) was title not matching description.

Yes, ritilian is not a recreational drug.
But Yes, ritilian encourages drug use.

I came up and stumbled accross a paper of this on google. This was several months ago but now we need to concider on nation states: How many people with ADHD and have taken ritlian at a young age have turned into drug addicts?

We did a survey in Zimbergia, The number came to 49% of these ADHD's

EDIT: And most of them didnt want ritilian. (Sorry about the wrong spelling. English is a secondary language.)

The problem is: your proposal does nothing. It doesn't outlaw. It doesn't call for more research. It doesn't DO anything.

It DOES STOP people from taking ritlian.
Which DOES STOP people taking drugs in the future. Please give me about 10 minutes to an hour to find the article i stumbled accross.

Here:

The chemical straight jacket
Critics call it the 'chemical straight jacket' for kids, while many doctors and parents marvel at its success rate. For the last decade Ritalin has been used extensively to treat children with Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder. In ******** alone it's estimated 50,000 children are on the medication -- in the ** it's close to 2 million. But there are no long term studies of the effects.

PREMA *****-*****: I got headaches from it.

My metabolism was a lot slower.

I felt as if I was taking in lead.

I can remember complaining to my father one time that I had swallowed lead.

I felt all heavy.

I felt like throwing up.

******* ********: For Prema the promised outcome of behavioural change and a dramatic improvement in her school work didn't eventuate and finally the side effects of taking three tablets a day became too much.

******* ********: A few years later she became a drug addict.

It contained real world names so i decided to filter them. This is meerly proof of what im trying to make a point of.

One story != proof.

And in most cases Ritlian is not a recreational drug.

Giordano,
UN representative,
The Black New World

One story != proof.

And in most cases Ritlian is not a recreational drug.

Giordano,
UN representative,
The Black New World

But if you get past the point where you need it, and are only taking it because you are addicted, I can see why that would be bad.

I am not really on either side at the moment - I don't know enough to say one way or the other.

One story != proof.

And in most cases Ritlian is not a recreational drug.

Giordano,
UN representative,
The Black New World

I JUST SIAD IT WASNT RECREATIONAL!!! DIDNT YOU LISTEN? THIS WAS THE CLOSEST THING TO WHAT I HAD TO SAY IN THE CATEGORIES THING.

Yep I saw that but I'm still wondering if it is in the appropriate category. I can't think of a better one maybe you should ask a mod.

And Vastiva is right the text of the proposal doesn’t do anything.

Giordano,
UN representative,
The Black New World

Drug addiction is hereditary
All prescription drugs have side effects, "I know, I'll ban [insert drug here] because 5% of the people who take it have side effects."
Ritalin is one of the least addicting drugs, and is about as dangerous as pep pills, and at worse, speed. "But we can't ban morphine!" "Or medicinal marijuana!"
"If side effects continue, see a doctor and change medicine type"
Prema was a ditz, and deserved to die. She lacked intelligence and knowledge concerning medication, and was willing to put herself at risk because she was a dogmatic fool.
Ritalin is very effective, about 80% effective, most statistics show.
True, prescription drugs are given too much, but banning them will make things worse
Banning stimulants/SSRIS -> suicide rates increase, more trouble in school, worse education, more apathy, less civil rights, more health care, more tax, more drug addicts.
Did I say more drug addicts?! Yes, I did. Banning a medicine which is helpful for people is what causes them to seek improper types of medication, i.e. drugs and alcohol. That's why that dumbass Prema is a crackwhore, because she and her stupid parents lacked the logic to switch to the 20 other types of prescription drugs which are jsut as effective, and approveed by the already stringent and insane FDA.

Okay, now im potrayed as a moron because i was influenced by one paper:
Im sorry.

I didnt know all of that untill now.
And yes i can see the light of reason, you were the only one with enough evidence to convince me however.

I am sorry to you all, please do not support this proposal and FORGET THIS EVER HAPPENED.

Thank you,
Zimbergia.

No, I'm sorry for being such a harsh asshole.

I forgot to take my Ritalin.

Ha Ha, very funny.
Btw: i have ADHD myself, this is partially the reason i posted the proposal :rolleyes:

There are tons of other forms of treatment, but don't be afraid to take your meds because you think it might make you a drug addict.
Even if you have addiction problems in your family, it's higly unlikely that it well ever happen due to ADHD medicine, and the fact that you're smart enough to worry about that possibility is a clear indication of a capable mind.
I'd ask your doctor about it if you're really worried, though.

Smart? My IQ Range is only peaking at the lowest above average levels.
I only realised the issue about ritilian concerns through dumb luck and searching google.

Drug addiction in hereditary? So if my mother was addicted to meth, then I too will be addicting to meth?

I agree that you have a weakness to resisting drugs, but you always have the freewill to stay away from them. You cannot blame every damn thing on genes these days...pretty soon it will turn out that violence is hereditary and murderers will not be prosecuted for that reason.

ADHD and the such as over-diagnosed. I seriously do not believe that a child that may be hyperactive can be stuck on prozac or ritalin because the greedy drug companies and fake doctors want more money. Kids have tons of surfeit energy...proven...it does not mean that they need to be drugged. Many kids hate school and what is taught. That has always been the case...you cannot drug them for that either. I believe that there are alternate forms of treatment for the more extreme cases, however...you can start with a diet change. What is the average sugar consumption of a 7-year old child in the United States?

Believe me, I know where you're coming from here. When I was in the ever so wonderful public school systems I was diagnosed with Attention Deficit Hyperactive Disorder. I was actually one of the earlier ones and got to be a guinee pig for a range of drugs. The most likely two are Ritalin and Adderall XR. If I were you I would give Ritalin a go because with me at least, there were practically zero side effects. In fact I felt zero effects at all. It isn't habit forming and it wont do much to you except maybe help. If you aren't responding to that the next is Adderall or Adderall XR. These are a whole different animal. Its a strong stimulant that has more drastic effects. You can pretty accurately simulate the feeling by drinking about eight cans of Red Bull in the morning. You'll be extremely alert, and you wont need to eat or sleep as much. If you react poorly to the drug like me you'll also feel irritable or aggressive, you wont sleep well at all, and you'll start losing weight. And taking too many by mistake or too late? Hoowee, get ready for some extra free time since you probably wont be sleeping alot the next night. Its also rather unpleasent since you'll start to get irrational and lose focus from sleep deprivation. And you will almost certainly develop a very mild physical addiction. Nothing serious, its just if you dont take it in the morning you'll kinda feel like crap. Tired and a little confused. So the point is give Ritalin a chance. Its just the tip of the iceburg and it aint that bad. For me, it turned out I was just a disaffected highschool student with too much time on his hands. I'm currently in college and I do fine. Still, ADHD does exist despite its overdiagnosis and you should try to see if you can treat it. I would have killed to have my problems solved by a little blue pill.

Heres a little run down of common side effects.

methylphenidate (Ritalin)
Mild central nervous system stimulant.

Common non-allergic side effects:
insomnia
nervousness
drowsiness
dizziness
headache
blurred vision
tics (repetitive movements)
abdominal pain, nausea, or vomiting
decreased appetite or weight loss
slower weight gain and/ or growth

Methylphenidate may cause drug dependence. The chances are extremely low though.

Overdose effects: Overdose occurs around four to ten pills and is pretty mild. The main effects are twitches or tremors, rapid heart beat, headache, and dryness of the eyes and mouth. Extended OD can cause hallucinations (usually brought on if accompanied by sleep depravation).

Dextroamphetamine (Adderall XR)
Strong central nervous system stimulant and appetite suppressant.

Common non-allergic side effects:
restlessness or tremor
anxiety or nervousness
headache or dizziness
insomnia
dryness of the mouth or an unpleasant taste in the mouth
diarrhea or constipation
impotence or changes in sex drive

Adderall is habit forming. Physical and psychological dependence may occur with the use of this medication, and withdrawal effects may occur if you stop taking it suddenly after several weeks of continuous use.

Overdose effects: Overdose usually occurs anywhere from 2-6 pills. Mild OD can also occur from ingesting the pill incorrectly (chewing, crushing the pill, ect.) . Symptoms include severe insomnia, subsequent hallucinations (if insomnia persists), aggression, confusion, irregular or rapid heart beat, panic, vomiting, and dryness of the mouth and eyes.

No, you have a tendency to become addicted to substances, not neccessarily meth.

I had problems with Adderal, and stopped taking it. Then tried ritalin. And then stopped taking that. Recently tried Strettera, and all is well. No side effects. You don't hear me sounding the horn on what did not work for me. Why? Because ritalin works for my younger brother, and adderal works for another individual I know. All have side effects, that is why...

You should talk to your doctor about unwanted conditions that arrise when ont the drug, and see a psychologist who can monitor the effects of medication and make recomendations to your psychiatrist/physician.

Also, see a psychologist and psychiatrist. As others have said, lots of people are misdiagnosd. I was run through a gauntlet of tests by both doctors before being diagnosed with ADHD and Aspergers.

Saipea hit the nail on the head with his list of reasons as to why this resolution should not be proposed.

And Vastiva is right about how it should stay a personal choice. I take it because I value being able to focus on one project at a time instead of handling ten things at once to stay focused.

About IQ. Anything above 150 is pretty much arbitrary. So although it may increase IQ substantially, I can not really say it increases it so much as it allows the person to pay more attention to the questions being asked. Besides IQ is not the greatest measure, and this game is just as good as the clubs based on how well you do on the test.

No, you have a tendency to become addicted to substances, not neccessarily meth.


Meth was merely an example, of course. What I was saying is that you can't just go: "Oh! A pile of powder that is probably cocaine, judging on how my father was a drug addict, I feel genetically compelled to snort this."

Sure, you have a tendency of not resisting the drugs ONCE YOU TAKE THEM. Nobody says that you cannot stay away from them, as common sense would dictate, and nobody says that genetics are blamable 100% of the time.

OOC: I take Ritalin, or rather a drug called Concerta that is basically the same in terms of purpose, effect, etc. It's a similarly controlled substance. And, well, it benefits me. I would be worse off without it. It's overprescribed, to be sure, and there are problems with people using it illegally, but making all use illegal would not help a bit, and would harm people like me.

Well it seems like everybody but me takes ritalin...if this applies to all of nationStates, you can expect to get no support. Haha.

Meth was merely an example, of course. What I was saying is that you can't just go: "Oh! A pile of powder that is probably cocaine, judging on how my father was a drug addict, I feel genetically compelled to snort this."

Sure, you have a tendency of not resisting the drugs ONCE YOU TAKE THEM. Nobody says that you cannot stay away from them, as common sense would dictate, and nobody says that genetics are blamable 100% of the time.

Tolerance and predisposition. Some people have low tolerences to stimuli, as dictated by their genetics. Some people are predisposed to certian stimuli, as dictated by their genetics. In either event, consciousness of genetic tolerance and predisposition is not likely.

On one hand, some stimuli are so powerful tolerance does not matter. On the other hand, some people can smoke their entire lives, live off of bacon and bread, and never develop lung cancer or have a heart attack.

Free will is a concept of the conscious mind. The conscious mind is nothing more then impulses across a neural network, and chemical reactions. Genetics dictate the organ: how these reactions occur, and the potential of the neural network, etc. Genetics dictate the capacity for free will.

Not all of what happens is 100% genetic. However, individual morals will lose out to genetics every time absent an intervening force.

But, if you believe otherwise, that free will alone can trump genetics. Good luck preaching that.

But, if you believe otherwise, that free will alone can trump genetics. Good luck preaching that.

You say it like it's such a hard concept to understand.

If somebody takes drugs and develops a massive addiction as a result because of a genetic predisposition, then that's too bad...they should not have been doing them in the first place. In that case, genetics are pointless to argue. Drugs are your choice only...even if you argue that it was peer pressure...nobody can make you do anything.

What you said in your response is not consistent with what I wrote, nor is it internally consistent.

Reread tolerance and disposition. If I did not adequately distinguish the two concepts, let me know, and I will try to simplify it further.

Also, your having a hard time distinguishing between intervening forces and the individual.

This should all clear up once an understanding of the difference between predisposition and tolerance develops.

You say it like it's such a hard concept to understand.

If somebody takes drugs and develops a massive addiction as a result because of a genetic predisposition, then that's too bad...they should not have been doing them in the first place. In that case, genetics are pointless to argue. Drugs are your choice only...even if you argue that it was peer pressure...nobody can make you do anything.

Self preservation is also a response to stimuli rooted in genetics. Absent intervening forces you will try to save your own life. There are other animals who will just die (certain breeds of sheep for example).

So, if I put a gun to your head, and tell you to take a drug or die, absent another intervening force, you will take the drug. If you have a low tolerance to its effects, you may very well become addicted without outside help.

Now, if you are a religeous type, and the priest tells you that there is a place in heaven with your name on it, then you might bite the bullet so to speak. As your conscious has the ability to manifest the idea that your mental person is seperate from the physical, and you will live on after being shot.