NationStates Jolt Archive

Having requested time to speak, the Lord Protector and Ambassabor of the Protectorate of Calmio stands and addresses the assembly.

Delegates, thank you.

I have recently submitted a proposal for resolution that will combat the scourge of poverty in each of our nations. It shall determine a manner in which all people shall be able to live safely and happily while not greatly encroaching on the needs of your corporations.

I move for the establishment of a minimum wage in the manner that is laid forth in the proposal you have each received in your offices. [A multi-page document] (http://www.nationstates.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/77267/page=UN_proposal/start=70)

Rather than utilizing the United Nations' weight to force blanket-policy on this world, this proposal allows each state's needs to be considered, a far better plan that most!

I strongly urge your support of this proposal, friends. For the benefit of the future!

The tall Calmite nods carefully, accentuating what he has last said. And with that, he returns to his seat.

Sam Palleel turned to his colleague Johan Arnaen, whispering unnecesarily, "This has a very interesting format. Maybe we should look into applying some of these ideas."

"But Sam, we've already passed two, and written two others which will hopefully pass soon in the existing format. Imagine the grumbling we'd get from the copying department if we suddenly switched to an unfamiliar and unproven type." Arnaen replied, he too grateful the exchange took place on the periphery of the assembly antechamber.

"Okay, okay. You're right" Palleel conceded. "But still, you have to admit reading the last part, 'Sunrise, Sunset' made you want to start singing"

"Absolutely, Sam. Like a bird."

Lydia was just on her way back to her office when she caught a glimpse of the conversation by the two diplomats from Powerhungry Chipmunks. “Sunrise, Sunset, deviations from the norm? This sounds most interesting” and promptly decides to join the debate, nodding politely at the two diplomats as she passes.

Noticing a spare copy of the agenda she quickly peruses it and starts to smile. “I’d better find a very comfortable seat, if the other debates about economic policy is anything to go by, we are in for the long haul” she thought, waiting for an opportune moment to speak.

The government of Telidia is in general support of all proposals that seek to alleviate the ills of poverty around the globe and welcome this proposal by the member from Calmio. However we have an immediate concern with this clause, which I quote for reference:

Provided they do dole out enough units of pay--this can, of course, be distributed by way of food or shelter--they shall be exempted from the actual establishment of a minimum wage; after all, the end of this resolution is pulling working citizens from poverty, not equalizing worldwide economic strategies.

It is my understanding, though I may stand corrected on this, that the UN is not capable of making legislation specific to groups or states. All member states will be automatically compliant, thus it is impossible to exempt certain states as suggested. I would certainly not consider myself an expert in this area and I therefore look forward to the comments of my more learned colleagues.

Respectfully
Lydia Cornwall, UN Ambassador
Office of UN Relations, Dept for Foreign Affairs
HM Government of Telidia

MJ Donovan walks purposefully towards the Calmite delegacy and tosses the document on the Ambassador's desk. There's a big red circle drawn around two words near the top of the document.
Establishment of Minimum Wage
A resolution to improve worldwide human and civil rights.

Category: Human Rights
Strength: Significant
Proposed by: Calmio
"Son, you're kinda new here, so lemme save you some trouble. Anytime you wanna take money out of my wallet and hand it to someone else, regardless of how worthy a cause, that ain't Human Rights. This here's a Social Justice proposal, 'A resolution to reduce income inequality and increase basic welfare.' Even though we won't vote for it either way, I can flat out guarantee it won't pass under this heading. "

"Why doncha check with the Secretariat Staff and see if they can pull this one, then resubmit it with the correct category. I like your style, even if Frisbeeteria doesn't like your content. You keep tryin', y'hear?"


The veteran diplomat walks purposefully away towards whomever is to be his next 'victim'.

OOC: I'm copying this here because it won't always be on page 15 of the proposals list. Will post comments shortly.



Establishment of Minimum Wage
A resolution to improve worldwide human and civil rights.


Category: Human RightsStrength: SignificantProposed by: Calmio

Description: A RESOLUTION ESTABLISHING MINIMUM WAGE

The United Nations, Resolved, do Establish a Minimum Wage Such That All Citizens of the Member States Shall Effectively Participate and Benefit Their Economies.

Introductory Note

Poverty is an unusual scourge on this world as it is not immediately definable. What may be seen as a level of great wealth in one nation may be equal to utter destitution in another. At the same time, however, absent quantifiers (and therefore gradations) of physical holdings or liquid wealth, there _is_ a definite level at which a citizen of a Member State may be seen indigent. To this end, a resolution is necessary codifying a proportionally appropriate minimum wage.

Body

These United Nations, in session, are bound to provide for the defense of the individual liberties and effective governance of the Member States. To that end, this House is the appropriate chamber in which the question of wage shall be addressed.

Definitions:

This House: The United Nations, in whole.
The Member States: Those states, nations, territories, and principalities that have applied to and been accepted by the United Nations for the purpose of legislation and government.
Wage: The amount of pay--or other comeuppance--that a worker receives in exchange for his labor from the party who benefits from the labors, whether publicly or privately held.
Worker/Laborer: An individual citizen of a member state _who has employment_.
Employer: One who benefits from the labors of a worker. May be the government in certain of the Member States.
Cost of Living: The lowest sum of pay (no matter in what units this pay comes) that an individual citizen may survive on in an individual member state's current economic climate.

Proposal:

These United Nations shall send forth inspectors--likely of an actuarial sort--to determine the base cost-of-living in each of the Member States. This cost shall then have added to it the amount of taxation (whether by percentage or actual amount) that the individual Member States receive from each of its citizens. The summed cost with taxation shall then be divided by the number of pay periods in a given year. The resulting total shall be the lowest wage an employer may pay each of his employees in a given pay period.

Example:

If it is found by an inspector the UN that the base cost-of-living in Member Nation A is 100 units and the rate of taxation is 10 units, the summed cost shall be 110 units. If the nation has four pay periods a year, the nation's employers may pay no less than 27.5 units per period.

Of course, certain among the Member Nations are those which provide for the needs of their citizens in an altruistic and equal manner. These nations, for the purpose of this resolution, shall consider themselves to be the employer of their citizens. Provided they do dole out enough units of pay--this can, of course, be distributed by way of food or shelter--they shall be exempted from the actual establishment of a minimum wage; after all, the end of this resolution is pulling working citizens from poverty, not equalizing worldwide economic strategies.

Sunrise, Sunset:

This resolution, upon its passage, shall be immediately implemented.

This resolution shall have no date of sunset.

Approvals: 1 (Al-Zar)

Status: Lacking Support (requires 140 more approvals)

Voting Ends: Sun Nov 28 2004


This one is by far more coherent than most proposals, and still manages to keep things fairly simple. I do think the Social Justice category would be more appropriate to this proposal, though Human Rights is acceptable.

However, I as usual object to this because it legislates on a domestic issue, and will vote against it if it comes up for vote.

Introductory Note

Poverty is an unusual scourge on this world as it is not immediately definable. What may be seen as a level of great wealth in one nation may be equal to utter destitution in another. At the same time, however, absent quantifiers (and therefore gradations) of physical holdings or liquid wealth, there _is_ a definite level at which a citizen of a Member State may be seen indigent. To this end, a resolution is necessary codifying a proportionally appropriate minimum wage.

I already have a problem with this. Part of what makes the economy of my empire so strong is that we do not regulate minimum wage. This would weaken my economy and I must oppose this. Even if passed, its power shall not extend beyond Tiamat Taveril.

Body

These United Nations, in session, are bound to provide for the defense of the individual liberties and effective governance of the Member States. To that end, this House is the appropriate chamber in which the question of wage shall be addressed.

Definitions:

This House: The United Nations, in whole.
The Member States: Those states, nations, territories, and principalities that have applied to and been accepted by the United Nations for the purpose of legislation and government.
Wage: The amount of pay--or other comeuppance--that a worker receives in exchange for his labor from the party who benefits from the labors, whether publicly or privately held.
Worker/Laborer: An individual citizen of a member state _who has employment_.
Employer: One who benefits from the labors of a worker. May be the government in certain of the Member States.
Cost of Living: The lowest sum of pay (no matter in what units this pay comes) that an individual citizen may survive on in an individual member state's current economic climate.

Nice definitions. And the last one is easy: If they can't get enough pay at jobs, there's always the military.

Proposal:

These United Nations shall send forth inspectors--likely of an actuarial sort--to determine the base cost-of-living in each of the Member States. This cost shall then have added to it the amount of taxation (whether by percentage or actual amount) that the individual Member States receive from each of its citizens. The summed cost with taxation shall then be divided by the number of pay periods in a given year. The resulting total shall be the lowest wage an employer may pay each of his employees in a given pay period.

And this is where you get into a nightmare.

In the multination empires, such as my own, you'll find the cost of living varies from territory to territory. In my own empire, Apsu Lilith and Merlyns have a much more prohibitive cost of living than DLE Prime and Tiamat Taveril do. You would literally have to go into each part, do all of that, and try to alter the local laws while getting the Dictator to back it.

Now, why is it a nightmare? It's growing. I'm soon to add a nation and start advertising for others to start growing on Terrator soil, all with the understanding they are members of an empire.

Sunrise, Sunset:

This resolution, upon its passage, shall be immediately implemented.

This resolution shall have no date of sunset.

Completely and utterly unnecessary. NSUN Resolutions are always implimented immediately, and never end (save via Repeal, of course). Any such clause is, essentially, a waste of space. Not enough to warrent deleting it, mind, but still a waste of space.

The selected category, however, is quite dubious. This looks very much like a Social Justice issue, but I would like to hear the author's reasoning for making it Human Rights first.

- UN Gnome #119e586

The Calmite was a bit disappointed by some of the response his proposal had gotten. He had often heard the UN was a very formalistic organization, but he had also expected more debate--and support--for his resolution. Whichever way, he was resolved to make Calmio a major player in this world and to bring honor to his nation and self, so he stood and began to respond.

First, I would like to thank those of you who have taken the time to comment on my proposal. It speaks highly of this organization that the proposal of a freshman ambassador--the greenest of the green--would attract some note and commentary. I will strive to address those issues raised, and I plead for your support.

It is my understanding, though I may stand corrected on this, that the UN is not capable of making legislation specific to groups or states. All member states will be automatically compliant, thus it is impossible to exempt certain states as suggested. I would certainly not consider myself an expert in this area and I therefore look forward to the comments of my more learned colleagues.

My thanks to the Honorable Ambassador of Telidia. While I am not among the more learned here--as was evidenced by some of the sections of my proposal--I do feel that this is a justified statement. When writing, I was attempting to account for those systems of governments that choose to outlaw industry. There are likely those nation states that refuse monetary policy, and it would be unfair for us to force them to establish a policy only to establish a minimum wage. The end of my so-called exemption clause was to make this proposal more inclusive; it is not my goal to change or condemn any system of government. Rather, I wish to reduce poverty across the board, and if a government chooses to provide its people with an amount of foodstuffs and shelter equal to what a minimum wage would allow, I feel that is sufficient to meet with the ends of the proposal.

Part of what makes the economy of my empire so strong is that we do not regulate minimum wage.

I kindly thank the Ambassador of (OOC: "DemonLordEnigma") for his comments. I shall address this and then another.

An economy, whether of an Empire or an individual principality, may be greatly strengthened by a minimum wage. The increased buying power that is given to those who previously were unable to make ends meet, as it were, will stimulate the economy. Whereas some workers--the poor--were previously inactive in the marketplace (except, perhaps, as a minor producer), a minimum wage allows for citizens to save money rather than barely scrape by. Please do also consider the needs of your citizens, Lord Ambassador. Please do not become beholden to the needs of your industries. I shall address this point briefly after commenting on two of your other concerns.

If they can't get enough pay at jobs, there's always the military.

I do not disagree with the fact that the military may provide an appropriate means for some to have a greater income, but consider those who do not wish to fight. Consider also those who have families and young children. Further, if all jobs provide governmentally approved low wages and all citizens go off to join the high-paying military, who will make your shoes and churn your butter? Lord Ambassador, our states must focus on more than war; man cannot live on bullets alone.

In the multination empires, such as my own, you'll find the cost of living varies from territory to territory. In my own empire, Apsu Lilith and Merlyns have a much more prohibitive cost of living than DLE Prime and Tiamat Taveril do. You would literally have to go into each part, do all of that, and try to alter the local laws while getting the Dictator to back it.

This United Nations has a large bureaucratic force with enough actuaries and accountants to determine the cost of living in each of your separate territories. Certainly the implementation of this resolution might differ in your nation than in those which have more of a blanket economy, but it will work. I am hopeful that your leader will recognize the benefit of this proposal, especially when hearing my next argument.

Completely and utterly unnecessary. NSUN Resolutions are always implimented immediately, and never end (save via Repeal, of course). Any such clause is, essentially, a waste of space. Not enough to warrent deleting it, mind, but still a waste of space.

My strongest apologies for laying out a "Sunrise, Sunset" clause. In my prior legislative experience I have found that some delegates are abusive of those who do not include such a statement. I am gladdened that these United Nations defend against this, and to that I end I will never again include one.

The selected category, however, is quite dubious. This looks very much like a Social Justice issue, but I would like to hear the author's reasoning for making it Human Rights first.

Much concern has been sent my way over my titling of the proposal. I recognize that some here are quite concerned with the way in which resolutions of the sort such as mine are thought of, and I will strive to make a case for why I felt this was an issue of Human Rights.

Before that, though, I must say that I was very deliberate in choosing between Human Rights and Social Justice. I felt that the issue lay on the periphery of each sector and that if it had been possible I would have chosen both. I feel, however, that this is an issue of Human Rights.

When a worker must choose between paying for his shelter and his food, that is not a concern of class struggle or social equity, that is a question of Human Rights. We, as the United Nations, must be resolved in the fact that all people have definite needs. When a government allows its industry to profit excessively from the labor of its workers, that government has failed its people. It is not a question of balancing the wealth; it's a question of why a citizen who works for his 40 hours a week, as defined in a prior resolution, should have to still live in squalor.

I am not advocating a system whereby each corporation in this world should have to buy each of its employees a new automobile. Rather, I am noting that our world's economies are largely based around the marketplace. We all note that it is unfair for us to keep the basic needs of life--food, water, shelter--from our citizens. In an economy with an active marketplace, if we choose to allow our companies to not give our workers an appropriate wage, we are consenting to a system whereby people are denied the basic rights of human life.

This resolution is certainly far reaching in its impacts, and I am hopeful that it does effect both the concerns of Social Justice and Human Rights. At the same time, however, I feel that it is, at base, a question of Rights.

To this end, I strongly urge your support of my proposal. It is a question of fairness and concern for fellow humans. Thank you.

The Calmite was a bit disappointed by some of the response his proposal had gotten. He had often heard the UN was a very formalistic organization, but he had also expected more debate--and support--for his resolution. Whichever way, he was resolved to make Calmio a major player in this world and to bring honor to his nation and self, so he stood and began to respond.

First, I would like to thank those of you who have taken the time to comment on my proposal. It speaks highly of this organization that the proposal of a freshman ambassador--the greenest of the green--would attract some note and commentary. I will strive to address those issues raised, and I plead for your support.

The only reason I don't is economic concerns. If I can be assured this will not cause an economic problem, then I will support it.

I kindly thank the Ambassador of (OOC: "DemonLordEnigma") for his comments. I shall address this and then another.

OOC: DLE Empire for short, unless you're talking about the nation of DLE. It makes it easier on me and others to remember.

An economy, whether of an Empire or an individual principality, may be greatly strengthened by a minimum wage. The increased buying power that is given to those who previously were unable to make ends meet, as it were, will stimulate the economy. Whereas some workers--the poor--were previously inactive in the marketplace (except, perhaps, as a minor producer), a minimum wage allows for citizens to save money rather than barely scrape by. Please do also consider the needs of your citizens, Lord Ambassador. Please do not become beholden to the needs of your industries. I shall address this point briefly after commenting on two of your other concerns.

I shall keep this in mind when considering the entirety of the arguement. I doo have concern for my citizens, but at the same time I must look out for the Empire as a whole.

I do not disagree with the fact that the military may provide an appropriate means for some to have a greater income, but consider those who do not wish to fight. Consider also those who have families and young children. Further, if all jobs provide governmentally approved low wages and all citizens go off to join the high-paying military, who will make your shoes and churn your butter? Lord Ambassador, our states must focus on more than war; man cannot live on bullets alone.

While true for most militaries, I find it to be unusual with mine. Our military efforts are also in space exploration and construction, meaning I need far more engineers and construction workers than I need soldiers. Most of my military will never see a battlefield.

I have purposefully set up the economy to revolve around the military, meaning the companies are forced to pay competitive wages if they wish to continue selling products and making profits. While unusual to do, it benefits everyone in the end. It gets me the people I need, keeps the corporations with the people they need and want, and the people at the bottom benefit from the resulting wage wars.

This United Nations has a large bureaucratic force with enough actuaries and accountants to determine the cost of living in each of your separate territories. Certainly the implementation of this resolution might differ in your nation than in those which have more of a blanket economy, but it will work. I am hopeful that your leader will recognize the benefit of this proposal, especially when hearing my next argument.

Aye, that it will. I was just pointing out a problem you may have with several nations. But it appears to be a worthless complaint on my part.

My strongest apologies for laying out a "Sunrise, Sunset" clause. In my prior legislative experience I have found that some delegates are abusive of those who do not include such a statement. I am gladdened that these United Nations defend against this, and to that I end I will never again include one.

Those delegates might want to examine the history of UN resolutions if they want to get abusive. I want them, not you, to provide me with a list that include a "Sunrise, Sunset" clause.

Much concern has been sent my way over my titling of the proposal. I recognize that some here are quite concerned with the way in which resolutions of the sort such as mine are thought of, and I will strive to make a case for why I felt this was an issue of Human Rights.

Before that, though, I must say that I was very deliberate in choosing between Human Rights and Social Justice. I felt that the issue lay on the periphery of each sector and that if it had been possible I would have chosen both. I feel, however, that this is an issue of Human Rights.

When a worker must choose between paying for his shelter and his food, that is not a concern of class struggle or social equity, that is a question of Human Rights. We, as the United Nations, must be resolved in the fact that all people have definite needs. When a government allows its industry to profit excessively from the labor of its workers, that government has failed its people. It is not a question of balancing the wealth; it's a question of why a citizen who works for his 40 hours a week, as defined in a prior resolution, should have to still live in squalor.

I am not advocating a system whereby each corporation in this world should have to buy each of its employees a new automobile. Rather, I am noting that our world's economies are largely based around the marketplace. We all note that it is unfair for us to keep the basic needs of life--food, water, shelter--from our citizens. In an economy with an active marketplace, if we choose to allow our companies to not give our workers an appropriate wage, we are consenting to a system whereby people are denied the basic rights of human life.

This resolution is certainly far reaching in its impacts, and I am hopeful that it does effect both the concerns of Social Justice and Human Rights. At the same time, however, I feel that it is, at base, a question of Rights.

To this end, I strongly urge your support of my proposal. It is a question of fairness and concern for fellow humans. Thank you.

And with that, I shall sit down and reconsider my position. That right there was extremely effective as an arguement and one worthy of me spending time to consider the issue carefully. I normally stick with my gut, but on this issue I shall have to consider if the gut is right on it.