NationStates Jolt Archive

I'd be interested on peoples thoughts on my new resolution called "UN Encroachment". Isn't anybody else worried how the UN has just been churning out 3 sentence abortions that broadly cover things the UN has no right to interfere with? The united nations is not the world's totalitarian nanny and even bringing this to vote would help make that point. Please support this issue to bring common sense back to international politics!

Given the size of the proposal list lately, would you mind posting a copy here, please?

Be aware that any proposal to restrict future proposals is considered illegal.

Dont worry. It is only a plee that people excercise more restraint and common sense when proposing their ideas.


UN Encroachment
A resolution to increase democratic freedoms.
Category: The Furtherment of Democracy
Strength: Mild
Proposed by: Terran Diplomats

Description: In chapter one, article two, paragraph seven of the United Nations Charter, the following key point is made clear.

"Nothing contained in the present Charter shall authorize the United Nations to intervene in matters which are essentially within the domestic jurisdiction of any state or shall require the Members to submit such matters to settlement under the present Charter."

And yet time and time again the UN has intervened in matters it has no jurisdiction in. It is not the place of the UN to decide issues for its members on a basis of tyranny by majority. Lets take a look at what we've "accomplished".

The UN has enforced its moral views on its member nations in a flurry of draconian (and highly redundant) resolutions including: Sexual Freedom, Legalize Euthanasia, Gay Rights, Legalize Prostitution, Abortion Rights, BioRights Declaration, The Sexes Rights Law, Rights of Minorities and Women, and Definition of Marriage. We've made resolutions affirming gay rights five times. The UN never had the jurisdiction to enforce it once. Regardless of how noble we feel these causes are, we cannot enforce morality on our member nations.

The UN has also put undue stress on industry. We have four redundant resolutions addressing alternative energy sources, each placing more stress on governments and industry. We have four resolutions on logging, stringent to the point that I'm surprised any logging industry continues to exist in UN nations. We have two dumping laws with extremely broad language. NO waste may be dumped in water, even if it is benign wastes such as mine tailings. These types of resolutions also appear to target a single person with jail time for their company's actions. These resolutions' noble nature belies a complete lack of effort or understanding on the part of those proposing them.

Aside from this, a number of inappropriate, redundant, and just plain idiotic resolutions continue to exist. So this is what I propose. This resolution urges members contributing proposals to...

A. Read through the UN archives to make sure their idea has not already been addressed one, or multiple times.

B. Stop proposing resolutions with unduly encroach on the sovereignty of nations in the UN.

C. Research your topic take the time to put forth proposals which are not oversimplified and destructive in their inaccuracies and omissions.

D. Take the UN seriously as a place to make international decisions about international issues, and not just as your personal soapbox. You have your own country for that.

Approvals: 2 (Terran Diplomats, Ninjadom Revival)

Status: Lacking Support (requires 138 more approvals)

Voting Ends: Sat Nov 27 2004

I think this is a fine resolution. Many of these resolutions are much too overlapping of previous ones. This is related to an alteration I would like to see enacted, in that the delegates sould be allowed to amend the resolution before it is put up for vote by all member nations. Often people have objections about a small wording of the resolution and have to vote it up or down with no changes.

The NationStates United Nations does not have a charter.... It's jurisdiction is all emcompassing, into whatever passes simple-majority floor-vote...

Dont worry. It is only a plee that people excercise more restraint and common sense when proposing their ideas.

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Restraint? Common sense? We're talking about thhe internet. Half the people here don't even realize that gay marriage is legal.

UN Encroachment
A resolution to increase democratic freedoms.
Category: The Furtherment of Democracy
Strength: Mild
Proposed by: Terran Diplomats

Description: In chapter one, article two, paragraph seven of the United Nations Charter, the following key point is made clear.

"Nothing contained in the present Charter shall authorize the United Nations to intervene in matters which are essentially within the domestic jurisdiction of any state or shall require the Members to submit such matters to settlement under the present Charter."

Logical fallacy, and this effectively destroys all support or attempts to support this proposal may have had. That is the charter of the Real UN. This is the NSUN, which does not have a charter. It is legal for this UN to require your citizens to have anal sex with goats on Sundays or to grant zombies equal rights as humans if someone could gain enough support for it and dodge the mods.

And yet time and time again the UN has intervened in matters it has no jurisdiction in. It is not the place of the UN to decide issues for its members on a basis of tyranny by majority. Lets take a look at what we've "accomplished".

Wrong. You're mixing up UNs. Nothing is beyond the scope of this UN unless laid out as such by resolutions or rules the mods have imposed.

The UN has enforced its moral views on its member nations in a flurry of draconian (and highly redundant) resolutions including: Sexual Freedom, Legalize Euthanasia, Gay Rights, Legalize Prostitution, Abortion Rights, BioRights Declaration, The Sexes Rights Law, Rights of Minorities and Women, and Definition of Marriage. We've made resolutions affirming gay rights five times. The UN never had the jurisdiction to enforce it once. Regardless of how noble we feel these causes are, we cannot enforce morality on our member nations.

The member nations vote on it and majority rules. This is true democracy in action.

And, yes, the NSUN does have the jurisdiction.

The UN has also put undue stress on industry. We have four redundant resolutions addressing alternative energy sources, each placing more stress on governments and industry. We have four resolutions on logging, stringent to the point that I'm surprised any logging industry continues to exist in UN nations. We have two dumping laws with extremely broad language. NO waste may be dumped in water, even if it is benign wastes such as mine tailings. These types of resolutions also appear to target a single person with jail time for their company's actions. These resolutions' noble nature belies a complete lack of effort or understanding on the part of those proposing them.

You do know that UN membership is not required, right? The majority of the nations on NS are not UN members. And those proposing them are just trying to get their agenda out there and hoping the majority shares the agenda. And understanding? No one cares.

The alternative energy sources are part of why I did not rejoin the UN this time. Hydrogen fuel presents too many problems to be viable, my support of the ban on biological weapons I have since rethought, and I cannot afford the damage to my defense some of the proposals would give. But, now I have a nation in the UN again.

Aside from this, a number of inappropriate, redundant, and just plain idiotic resolutions continue to exist. So this is what I propose. This resolution urges members contributing proposals to...

A. Read through the UN archives to make sure their idea has not already been addressed one, or multiple times.

They'll ignore it. They always do.

B. Stop proposing resolutions with unduly encroach on the sovereignty of nations in the UN.

This is the job of the UN. Don't like it? Tell them to frag off on your way out the door.

C. Research your topic take the time to put forth proposals which are not oversimplified and destructive in their inaccuracies and omissions.

Sometimes those omissions are forced by the destructive tendencies towards resolutions people have on here. I've gone through and either argued massive changes to or utterly destroyed several proposals with my time on these boards. But there are also those I just support from the beginning. It's that which helps limit them, combined with the fact this isn't reality.

D. Take the UN seriously as a place to make international decisions about international issues, and not just as your personal soapbox. You have your own country for that.

These are international issues. How you guys treat Earth, how I treat Terran and Terrator, and how others treat their planets all affect the international community. The usage of resources, required trade of resources, people leaving because of pollution, hunting for resources when they are used up, etc. are all influencial on trade, international relations, and frequency of wars.

To address the idea of the NSUN being different, you kind of need to suspend your disbelief folks. They have the same name, the same flag, and the same general purpose. We're assuming the 2 share certain rules and customs.

As for leaving the UN, Terran diplomats is a puppet nation for The consecrated indutries of new terra unim. It is not currently in the UN and enjoying in quite a bit.

And these things being issues? In what universe? Why is it the UNs job to tell me what moral decisions I should make? And how to micromanage my economy. Thats not saving the world, it just irritates people. And if these rules dont in fact exist why dont we try to establish them?

To address the idea of the NSUN being different, you kind of need to suspend your disbelief folks. They have the same name, the same flag, and the same general purpose. We're assuming the 2 share certain rules and customs.

They don't. That is evident by taking five minutes to read the first page of resolutions, one minute to read the stated goal of the NSUN, or even ten minutes to read the seven hundred other times we have said this.

As for leaving the UN, Terran diplomats is a puppet nation for The consecrated indutries of new terra unim. It is not currently in the UN and enjoying in quite a bit.

My UN puppet is Tiamat Taveril, mainly because the person who made the nation decided to quit NS and I managed to bag the nation first. It's the only quarter of the DLE Empire that the UN rules apply to.

And these things being issues? In what universe? Why is it the UNs job to tell me what moral decisions I should make? And how to micromanage my economy. Thats not saving the world, it just irritates people. And if these rules dont in fact exist why dont we try to establish them?

In the NS universe, which includes 7 Earths, velociraptors with space ships, a future evolution of humans, elves, magic, nations which view antimatter bombs and time travel as primitive rubbing shoulders with nations using spears, enough nations to fill over two dozen Earths, and enough people to require an entire galaxy. Realism went out the window long before I first joined.

You have to realize this was intended as a roleplaying game. Thus why we have three forums devoted to it (this is one of them, only it allows as much OOC as IC). This UN is modelled on the real one in nothing more than name, flag, and purpose. That is the extent of it. Beyond that, they are about as similar as the US is to France.

I'm just going to go ahead and admit I wasn't thinking too hard when when I made that quote. I guess I wasn't planning on being eviscerated over details of my fictional legislation. If this UN is in fact different and people actually call me on it, I guess I'll just redraft it as me role playing somebody who thinks the current situation in the UN is insane.

I'm just going to go ahead and admit I wasn't thinking too hard when when I made that quote. I guess I wasn't planning on being eviscerated over details of my fictional legislation. If this UN is in fact different and people actually call me on it, I guess I'll just redraft it as me role playing somebody who thinks the current situation in the UN is insane.

There is one other problem, but I did not bring it up for a reason: This may be affecting game mechanics, but I don't see enough evidence to support that in there. It would require a mod ruling on the legality of it.

I dunno, thats a stretch. What part do you see as a rules violation. The quote? Cause I could easilly redraft without that. All the other parts are merely suggestions for a reason.

I dunno, thats a stretch. What part do you see as a rules violation. The quote? Cause I could easilly redraft without that. All the other parts are merely suggestions for a reason.

The suggestions are the part I'm looking at. As written, it could go either way. It depends on how people interpret "urges" when reading.

To address the idea of the NSUN being different, you kind of need to suspend your disbelief folks. They have the same name, the same flag, and the same general purpose. We're assuming the 2 share certain rules and customs.

As for leaving the UN, Terran diplomats is a puppet nation for The consecrated indutries of new terra unim. It is not currently in the UN and enjoying in quite a bit.

And these things being issues? In what universe? Why is it the UNs job to tell me what moral decisions I should make? And how to micromanage my economy. Thats not saving the world, it just irritates people. And if these rules dont in fact exist why dont we try to establish them?

You've assumed wrong, about the only thing they have in common is the character set "United Nations" and the flag.

To quote the UN FAQ:
The UN is your chance to mold the rest of the world to your vision, by voting for resolutions you like and scuttling the rest. However, it's a double-edged sword, because your nation will also be affected by any resolutions that pass. (You can't just obey the resolutions you like and ignore the rest, like real nations do.)

and:


UN resolutions are a way to bring all member nations into line on a particular issue; be that environmental, democratic, free trade, or whatever.

The only thing this body cannot do is:
1. Propose additions, alterations, or removal of aspects or functions of the game (Game Mechanics).
2. Propose happenings based off of "real-life" events.
3. Ammend previous proposals (though we can repeal them now).

This body is the NationStates United Nations; and has no connection with the "Real Life United Nations"...

As no less then Hack has ruled that proposals which refer to real life institutions are illegal, this proposal is illegal.

Yes, there may be other places it was ruled illegal. But if it's good enough for Hack, it's good enough for me, and I don't need any further proof.

*shows the T-Shirt "BRING BACK HACK! JENNIFER GOVERNMENT II!" *

Ok. Anybody with anything else to say. ANYTHING. Note that "anything" excludes talking about how flagrantly illegal it is, because I think between the 3 of you the point has been made abundantly clear.

*raises hand*

How would this proposal have increased Democracy?

It is attempting to promote self rule of UN countries. It was either that or human rights, and I thought it was better.

"A resolution to increase democratic freedoms."

There is one other problem, but I did not bring it up for a reason: This may be affecting game mechanics, but I don't see enough evidence to support that in there. It would require a mod ruling on the legality of it.

Isn't it "bad" in the sense that it is trying to limit what the UN can and can't do?

You do know that by just reading the subject line, you are calling for more encroachment, don't you?

You do know that by just reading the subject line, you are calling for more encroachment, don't you?

No, not really.

No, not really.

Oh. Just me then :}

Oh. Just me then :}
And me!

Giordano,
UN representative,
The Black New World

Oh. Just me then :}
Quite a few of us, actually.

Quite a few of us, actually.

Yep. Same for me.

Yep. Same for me.

Ditto.

I'm assuming you're talking about the thread title. The term encroachment has an extremely negative connotation so I doubt too many people would think I meant that without reading the thread. Also this entire argument is completely inane.

*Ahem* I will be redrafting this without the killer quote, since it simply re-affirms the rules stated already and *encourages* people to follow some kinda new guidelines it does not subvert UN power in any way (hooray for run ons). If you can find any I'd be happy to hear them since I'd rather hear it from you than be axed by the mod squad.

Will this probably even get to vote? No, will I do it once more anyways? Why not.

You never know, stranger things have happened.