NationStates Jolt Archive

This was not submitted by me, if you are curious :}


Repeal "Rights of Minorities and Women"

A proposal to repeal a previously passed resolution

Category: Repeal
Resolution: #80
Proposed by: Zanshi

Description: UN Resolution #80: Rights of Minorities and Women (Category: Human Rights; Strength: Strong) shall be struck out and rendered null and void.

Argument: Complaints With Resolution #80 "Rights for Women and Minorities":

The resolution title is unjustifiably broad in scope.
Some minorities, the disabled have been mentioned, are not covered at all by this resolution.

The resolution is vague.
In particular it fails to:
a) define key terms (belief, equal, "express their love")
b) propose legislation
c) state whether enforcement is the role of nations or the UN

The resolution is self-contradictory.
Article II and Articles I and III in particular blatently contradict each other.

The resolution is redundant.
It merely rehashes legislation contained within the following, better worded, resolutions:

RESOLUTION #7 "Sexual Freedom"
RESOLUTION #12 "Gay Rights"
RESOLUTION #19 "Religious Tolerance"
RESOLUTION #26 "The Universal Bill of Rights"
RESOLUTION #69 "The Sexes Rights Law"
Possibly RESOLUTION #49 "Rights and Duties of UN States"

The resolution is dangerous.
Articles I and III could lead to any number of human-rights violations on the basis of equality of culture or equality of belief.

The resolution is counter-productive.
Equal treatment of men and women at the workplace, as enshrined in Article II, runs into deep problems when issues such as maternity leave are considered.

Approvals: 0

Status: Lacking Support (requires 140 more approvals)

Voting Ends: Tue Nov 23 2004


My main objection to the original resolution was it opened the door to people doing bad things in the name of good.

Which is mentioned in this repeal.

So I would support such a repeal, and suggest others do the same.

As soon as I get the page to load it gets my support.

Lady Desdemona of Merwell,
Senior UN representative,
The Black New World,
Delegate to The Order of The Valiant States

Please remove the reference to the "Rights and Duties" resolution as a possible duplication of the "Rights of Minorities and Women". It clearly isn't.

The two resolutions have nothing in common with respect to Human Rights.

There has been no logical case provided that the two are connected, as "individual rights" and "national rights" are two completely different things. Furthermore one resolution increased civil freedoms (Human Rights) while the other restricts political freedoms (Political Stability).

Thank you. Other than that point, I do think you've constructed a well reasoned repeal, though I also think the vote will be about the same percentage results, but with a bit of voter fatique should the repeal occur so soon. Just a hunch.

When will we be able to vote on the repeal?

When will we be able to vote on the repeal?

If I can get at least 140 countries behind me by 11/23, then the propsal can move to the floor of the UN for a full vote.

Please remove the reference to the "Rights and Duties" resolution as a possible duplication of the "Rights of Minorities and Women". It clearly isn't.

The two resolutions have nothing in common with respect to Human Rights.

There has been no logical case provided that the two are connected, as "individual rights" and "national rights" are two completely different things. Furthermore one resolution increased civil freedoms (Human Rights) while the other restricts political freedoms (Political Stability).

Thank you. Other than that point, I do think you've constructed a well reasoned repeal, though I also think the vote will be about the same percentage results, but with a bit of voter fatique should the repeal occur so soon. Just a hunch.

I can't change the wording in the propsal when it's been submitted, can I? If so, I'll be sure to clear that up.

I will happily support this.

I can't change the wording in the propsal when it's been submitted, can I? If so, I'll be sure to clear that up.

Right, once it is in the queue, it is un-editable. You can either wait it out and fix it if you get a chance to resubmit it, or you can ask the moderators to delete it and then resubmit it with the changes. They've done this before, but you'll loose however many endorsements you currently have. I don't know how they feel about this ... but it doesn't hurt to ask what they think.

I don't think anybody is purposefully trying to mislead anybody, and it is clear that it is not a strong point. But for the sake of clarity, should this repeal get enough endorsements (and it should, as I could guess that over 140 delegates voted no) I think having that phrase in there will long-term cause more confusion as the Rights and Duties is misinterpetted.

Again, nobody did anything wrong or purposeful. I just honestly hope that whatever passes is always the best shot at something, and I actually feel the presentation of the repeal is very easy to read and well thought-out.

When I read it over again, it said possibly, so I think that the statement was made that the connection to rights and duties is weak, at best.

NOOO!! how could it pass!?? i worked hard to opress all my peoples. now i have to be nice to some of them!?

NOOO!! how could it pass!?? i worked hard to opress all my peoples. now i have to be nice to some of them!?

(grin) Honesty in politics? Who knew :}

(OOC) I burst out laughing when I read this - thanks :}

This has no real relevence to this, but I would just like to say that I agree with most of what is in this resolution, and am only supporting a repeal on the grounds that it is written in such a way that it could easily be used for making life worse, rather than better. I have no problem with all people being treated equally regardless of sex, colour, sexuality, creed or other factor.

Just so that is clear.

The Council of Enn wishes to register its support of this repeal attempt.
We believe that while the resolution in question had laudably intentions, it could well be dangerous in effect. Relativism, almost completely defined in Article III, is a dangerous belief system that if taken to its logical conclusion will result in anarchy (and not the good kind Letila has championed for some time).

We agree with the other points brought up in Zanshi's repeal.

I'm amazed at the list of proposals. I saw two more repeal propositions on a "just because" basis... written out the same way as each other. Did those who subitted the repeal proposals NOT read the part where it said that duplicate proposals will be deleted? also, did they not read mine before they acted? obviously not.

The Council of Enn wishes to register its support of this repeal attempt.
We believe that while the resolution in question had laudably intentions, it could well be dangerous in effect. Relativism, almost completely defined in Article III, is a dangerous belief system that if taken to its logical conclusion will result in anarchy (and not the good kind Letila has championed for some time).

We agree with the other points brought up in Zanshi's repeal.
Why, thanks :)

Right, once it is in the queue, it is un-editable. You can either wait it out and fix it if you get a chance to resubmit it, or you can ask the moderators to delete it and then resubmit it with the changes. They've done this before, but you'll loose however many endorsements you currently have. I don't know how they feel about this ... but it doesn't hurt to ask what they think.

I don't think anybody is purposefully trying to mislead anybody, and it is clear that it is not a strong point. But for the sake of clarity, should this repeal get enough endorsements (and it should, as I could guess that over 140 delegates voted no) I think having that phrase in there will long-term cause more confusion as the Rights and Duties is misinterpetted.

Again, nobody did anything wrong or purposeful. I just honestly hope that whatever passes is always the best shot at something, and I actually feel the presentation of the repeal is very easy to read and well thought-out.

I agree with Mikitivity here. The original wording is my own, but it was intended to be a starting point for discussion, rather than a draft repeal. I'm not complaining, anything that gets this thing repealed ASAP is a good thing in my opinion. But I only mentioned "Rights and Duties" because it had been brought up in the original thread and didn't want to piss off whoever had originally brought it up. I didn't agree that it had relevance myself. Had my original post been a draft I wouldn't have included it. The "possibly" disclaimer may be enough to salvage things, though I don't believe that "Rights and Duties" even possibly has any relevance.

To: All Concerned Nations
From: The Offices of Kestral Lei

Dear Sirs and Madams,

As the President of PEWF and the Founder of the NSSRC, I wish to extend my full support in the repeal of this extremely dangerous resolution. My office will gladly offer whatever support the authors and leaders of this repeal need and urge them to contact me directly by TG to make arrangements for whatever assistance I can provide.

The PEWF and the NSSRC are deeply concerned as to the wording of this resolution, and its implications. We also feel that the intentions expressed within this resolution are already covered in several resolutions, and it is highly redundant in its nature.

We look forward to hearing from you shortly and thank you for your efforts to end this nightmare.

Sincerely,
Kestral Lei

President, PEWF
Founder and UN Delegate, NSSRC

To: All Concerned Nations
From: The Offices of Kestral Lei

Dear Sirs and Madams,

As the President of PEWF and the Founder of the NSSRC, I wish to extend my full support in the repeal of this extremely dangerous resolution. My office will gladly offer whatever support the authors and leaders of this repeal need and urge them to contact me directly by TG to make arrangements for whatever assistance I can provide.

The PEWF and the NSSRC are deeply concerned as to the wording of this resolution, and its implications. We also feel that the intentions expressed within this resolution are already covered in several resolutions, and it is highly redundant in its nature.

We look forward to hearing from you shortly and thank you for your efforts to end this nightmare.

Sincerely,
Kestral Lei

President, PEWF
Founder and UN Delegate, NSSRC

Thank you very much, your assistance is much appreciated. On that note, who is going to orchestrate the telegram campaign?

Thank you very much, your assistance is much appreciated. On that note, who is going to orchestrate the telegram campaign?

First, there will be some friendly delegates on the IDU forum you might first want to telegram. However, since a repeal of a Human Rights proposal is essentially a "Moral Decency" impact, you may wish to contact delegates whom have shown an interest in Moral Decency issues.

Second, if somebody saved the delegate votes cast against the resolution that is your best bet. If not, the next resolution "Definition of Marriage" is very similar to the resolution you are repealing. I would imagine that delegates that vote against the next resolution might be receptive. That means starting tomorrow morning you will have a shopping list.

You might find a regional forum / board to coordinate your efforts and list out whom you've contacted, so you can avoid double hitting delegates.

Things to include:

A link to the resolution thread (which was overwhelming opposed to it). A link
to this thread / discussion. And your usually pleasantries.

You can get a copy of all of the debates at the UNA Archive for Human Rights issues (http://pweb.netcom.com/~mierzwa10k/una/HumanRights.pdf). I updated this one earlier today. :) It is a pdf, so look at the bookmarks and then click on the "Rights of Minorities and Women" bookmark and you'll see I've saved all of the links to the various threads.

When I update archives, the dates automatically update, but the figure I've been tossing around this week doesn't have a date stamp visible yet. I'll fix that in future versions, because I've already updated the "Support" graph. I actually found an error in it ... nothing serious, but still I didn't include *all* Human Rights resolutions in that previous graphic. Whoops. :(

Second, if somebody saved the delegate votes cast against the resolution that is your best bet. If not, the next resolution "Definition of Marriage" is very similar to the resolution you are repealing. I would imagine that delegates that vote against the next resolution might be receptive. That means starting tomorrow morning you will have a shopping list.
Should just point out that there are several people, such as myself (and more importantly, our delegate Desdemona) who are supporting this repeal, and are also supporting Definition of Marriage. So it's not a clear-cut list.

Hmm... I think I still have a list of approvers for Habeas Corpus around here... Found it. If someone sends me a site to organise the campaign for this then I'll put the list there.

Should just point out that there are several people, such as myself (and more importantly, our delegate Desdemona) who are supporting this repeal, and are also supporting Definition of Marriage. So it's not a clear-cut list.

It sounds like they should telegram both sides then.

And your H.C. list should still be relatively accurate, as though it may seem like ages ago, it was only the beginning of Sept.

If someone sends me a site to organise the campaign for this then I'll put the list there.

Are there any friendly region founders out there who'd offer use of their board? Failing that I have a board I run for my students to talk on (not that any ever do, not complaining mind, saves me actually having to check it) and I could set up a forum on there.

I lend my full support to this repeal. Passing the resolution itself was a mistake seeing as we already have how many human rights resolutions that have similar context in mind. It's redundant and vague and that's why this one needs to go.

If it weren't redundant and vague, my country would have gone for it...but alas.

The Rouge Nation of Khazdulun lends its full support to the cause of repelling this dangerous resolution. Although Khazdulun supports equal rights for all its peoples, we find it reprehensible that such a badly worded resolution could pass. I am sure that the framers of this resolution had all the best intentions, however, the wording of this resolution can only lead to future problems and abuses of civil rights.

- Distes Feng
leader of the Rouge Nation of Khazdulun
UN Delegate for Emere

The NSSRC would be happy to lend its board to the repeal effort. I will make the necessary changes to the board, creating a topic for the effort, and ensuring the posting capabilities.

The information will be available shortly.

I have made the appropriate changes and additions to the NSSRC board. Additionally, I have created 2 mask accounts for repeal effort workers to log in under. These logins are open to everyone interested in working on the project, but no login is required to view the topic and posted information.

Please follow the regional messageboard link in my signature to see the board. And will the orchestrating NS UN member of this repeal please TG me immediately for login information?

how do I go about endorsing the repeal?

how do I go about endorsing the repeal?

If you are not a regional delegate, you can't. You can however vote for it, should it come to the floor.

If you are a regional delegate than you should be able to find a way to do it through the UN section on the game site.

I agree with Mikitivity here. The original wording is my own, but it was intended to be a starting point for discussion, rather than a draft repeal. I'm not complaining, anything that gets this thing repealed ASAP is a good thing in my opinion. But I only mentioned "Rights and Duties" because it had been brought up in the original thread and didn't want to piss off whoever had originally brought it up. I didn't agree that it had relevance myself. Had my original post been a draft I wouldn't have included it. The "possibly" disclaimer may be enough to salvage things, though I don't believe that "Rights and Duties" even possibly has any relevance.
I didn't mean to take your argument to the floor as was, but I thought it was so well spelled out, that any reasonable person would look at it and say "hmm, they have a point." In the other forum on the resolution itself, I gave you kudos, though what little good that probably did. :p

I didn't mean to take your argument to the floor as was, but I thought it was so well spelled out, that any reasonable person would look at it and say "hmm, they have a point." In the other forum on the resolution itself, I gave you kudos, though what little good that probably did. :p

No hard feelings whatsoever. I'm flattered more than anything. Fair play for getting the repeal up and running. I read the kudos, thanks, but couldn't reply before the thread was closed. If I have any regrets it's that we couldn't even discuss the repeal before the proposal passed but apparently ist verboten. *shrug*

I'm grateful no hard feelings are present. Now, it is coming on Monday, and we still don't have enough delegates supporting the repeal, at least, not the one I submitted. I fear it might not get to the floor. We only have 18 delegates in support of it at the moment.

The people of the Windland of Raxanadon-X fully support your proposal to repeal said legislation, which we did not support in the first place.

Signed,
The Council of Raxanadon-X

As a side note, I'm amazed at how quickly the repeal to the Resolution surfaced.

I, having voted against the Resolution, support the repeal on the grounds that it was poorly worded and already covered by previous Resolutions, and will push for my region to do the same.

Quite frankly, I'm surprised the UN allowed so many repeal proposals to be thrown out there.

Quite frankly, I'm surprised the UN allowed so many repeal proposals to be thrown out there.

It's a matter of perspective. If the proposal to repeal a resolution is valid, written well and not in violation of any laws, it can be argued that the moderators should not be allowed to delete it just because there is another one of equal merit in the list.

Cause if that were true for repeals it could be true for actual proposals, and that would just open up a whole world of pain :}

Why is it that this proposal still only has 20 votes? I see a lot of words for it but not much action. It needs 120 more by tomorrow!

Considering that the resolution in question passed by a wide margin, I highly doubt that this proposal will pass a vote. The DRA will not support this motion as this nation believes strongly in continuing the fight for equal rights for women and minorities and will support all resolutions that help to advance equality, acceptance, and tolerance. This body was designed to help humanity, and the DRA will support all measures which help humanity.

To the nation of Arturistania:

Please understand that -most- of the support for repeal of this resolution has nothing to do with our beliefs in the intentions of the resolution, but rather the wording of the resolution and the fact that there is significant and better legislation already adopted by the NS UN on these matters.

-Most- of the peope who want this resolution repealed are deeply concerned with the loose, vague, and downright innacurate nature of the statements it makes. We feel that there are definitively some beliefs which ARE better than others, and that the resolution can actually be a more of a threat to human rights than it can assist their growth.

We need 115 more delegates to approve the proposal so it can move to the floor of the UN for voting. Gathering support ends today, though I will resubmit if necessary.